Jump to content

It's Official: SCOTUS Overturns Roe v. Wade


Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, MikeFoxtrot said:

Why do you think it is that parents mourn the loss of a toddler more than they mourn a miscarriage?

Miscarriage is not forcibly ending the life of the baby. Not even in the same ballpark.

Link to comment
1 minute ago, Bernard Gui said:

No, but playing the Nazi card is always quite efficacious.

I wish it was. It has been so watered down that there is no way to warn or even talk about fascism anymore to a large portion of the population.

We are so screwed.

Link to comment
10 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

These kinds of divisions are not stable or sustainable. And it is quite possible more things are going to be thrown to the states that will widen the schisms.

Civil War 2.0: We Didn’t Learn Our Lesson the First Time

Are there currently laws that are so significantly different in their impact on lives existing right now?  Outside the death penalty which is limited in its impact, I am aware of none.  It seems to me most of the time states tend to hover around a similar position with minor differences. But I am no expert in law. Perhaps someone else is better informed can point out dramatically different laws that have existed over time, but have not caused at the very least legal conflict between states unable to reconcile the differences’ impact of their economic and social relationship. 
 

I would assume too dramatic of a difference and you have people and businesses leaving one state for another, though the most unfortunate may not be able to do so. Do we have historical evidence that such movement actually leads to positive changes in the state being abandoned, rather than doubling down since those who like the imbalance become a higher percentage of the population?  Movement from the South seems to have extended the oppression of minorities that continued after the Civil War and even got worse at times (the Tulsa massacre that occurred in 1921 comes to mind).

Edited by Calm
Link to comment
5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

These kinds of divisions are not stable or sustainable. And it is quite possible more things are going to be thrown to the states that will widen the schisms.

Civil War 2.0: We Didn’t Learn Our Lesson the First Time

Right. The way things were going before this decision were the epitome of stability and sustainability.

Slavery was abominable, but the slaughter of the innocents is catastrophic. War ended the former. I’m not sure what lesson we learn from the latter, except maybe that the sexual revolution has unleashed a tragedy beyond comprehension. But it’s not possible to put that woe back into Pandora’s box. We may reap the whirlwind.

Link to comment
10 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I wish it was. It has been so watered down that there is no way to warn or even talk about fascism anymore to a large portion of the population.

We are so screwed.

We would need to define fascism.

Link to comment
2 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

Like her own safety, for one. Direct threats to her own health, and indirect threats. Pregnancy can stop a woman from working and supporting herself and other children. It can cause relationship breakdown with her partner which heightens her personal risk. For instance(s).

The people through their elected representatives have the privilege and duty to provide remedies and protections for such things. 
 

Quote

I don't disagree about value. It's just that the circumstances are different. The situation of living completely inside another person is fundamentally unique, posing various very specific challenges to the pregnant woman.

Challenges and responsibilities. Men should especially be held accountable for their actions.

Edited by Bernard Gui
Link to comment

duplicate

Edited by Bernard Gui
Link to comment
47 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Where is this magical society where broader society is deeply invested in the whole future of the unborn? Do they accept refugees?

I would say that a society where comprehensive perfection in ideology or its consistently non-contradictory and polemic-proof application is even more magical.

Mine is a statement of principle: exceptions can come from a secular, societal position as well as religious in balancing individual and societal interests (and in balancing religious and secular interests for that matter).

Link to comment

No worries. We must have the money to send everyone to California who wants an abortion we just gave $200 billion away to the global infrastructure project. It must be nice to be rich.

Link to comment
58 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Oddly these do match up with Utah and Idaho abortion laws.

Actually the Idaho law doesn’t and many other red states don’t even allow for rape and incest. Only Utah’s current law follows the church position. No other red state law does and many Utah legislators have stated more restrictive laws are being planned.

Idaho - “The law only makes exceptions for rape, incest and to save the pregnant person’s life.”

https://idahocapitalsun.com/2022/06/24/idahos-trigger-law-will-abolish-abortions-30-days-after-scotus-ruling-overturning-roe-v-wade/

So Idaho’s law will restrict members religious freedom. There is a reason the church updated their website to add in religious freedom related to these abortion laws.

Church’s position.

  • “Pregnancy results from rape or incest, or
  • A competent physician determines that the life or health of the mother is in serious jeopardy, or
  • A competent physician determines that the fetus has severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth.”

The church’s position includes the health of the mother and fetus not surviving beyond birth. Health and life of the mother are two very different things.

 

Edited by Ragerunner
Link to comment
16 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Challenges and responsibilities. Men should especially be held accountable for their actions.

Very much agreed. Not all solutions need be legislative. I would go so far to say that cultural norms and mores with respect to men would be the single largest factor in reducing abortions.

https://www.childtrends.org/publications/dramatic-increase-in-percentage-of-births-outside-marriage-among-whites-hispanics-and-women-with-higher-education-levels

Link to comment
11 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Right. The way things were going before this decision were the epitome of stability and sustainability.

Slavery was abominable, but the slaughter of the innocents is catastrophic. War ended the former. I’m not sure what lesson we learn from the latter, except maybe that the sexual revolution has unleashed a tragedy beyond comprehension. But it’s not possible to put that woe back into Pandora’s box. We may reap the whirlwind.

Abortion has been an ongoing thing throughout human history. In the US in the mid 1800s it is estimated that around a fifth to a fourth of pregnancies were voluntarily terminated. It is estimated in over half of those cases the woman was married.

Link to comment
1 minute ago, Ragerunner said:

 Health and life of the mother are two very different things.

Yes. And the Church is very much concerned with being helpful to the life and well-being of the mother. Social services, ward support, and other mechanisms are in place.

Link to comment
5 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Abortion has been an ongoing thing throughout human history. In the US in the mid 1800s it is estimated that around a fifth to a fourth of pregnancies were voluntarily terminated. It is estimated in over half of those cases the woman was married.

Thanks. I feel a lot better about it now. 😏

Edited by Bernard Gui
Link to comment
12 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

No worries. We must have the money to send everyone to California who wants an abortion we just gave $200 billion away to the global infrastructure project. It must be nice to be rich.

We moved away from the west coast to get away from all the craziness. Perhaps such places will become meccas for those who want to enjoy how things are done there?

Link to comment
3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

head-to-desk-boom.gif

Lots of isms blow things up.

 

Link to comment
30 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

The people through their elected representatives have the privilege and duty to provide remedies and protections for such things. 
 

Challenges and responsibilities. Men should especially be held accountable for their actions.

And when they don’t?  It does not inspire me that the legislatures appear to be creating more problems without ensuring first the infrastructure was in place to deal with the changes. 
 

Would it make sense for laws to be made that promoted the buying of cars while no bills were passed to pay for the roads to drive them on?

Link to comment
12 minutes ago, Ragerunner said:

Actually the Idaho law doesn’t and many other red states don’t even allow for rape and incest. Only Utah’s current law follows the church position. No other red state law does and many Utah legislators have stated more restrictive laws are being planned.

Idaho - “The law only makes exceptions for rape, incest and to save the pregnant person’s life.”

https://idahocapitalsun.com/2022/06/24/idahos-trigger-law-will-abolish-abortions-30-days-after-scotus-ruling-overturning-roe-v-wade/

Church’s position.

  • “Pregnancy results from rape or incest, or
  • A competent physician determines that the life or health of the mother is in serious jeopardy, or
  • A competent physician determines that the fetus has severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth.”

The church’s position includes the health of the mother and fetus not surviving beyond birth. Health and life of the mother are two very different things.

 

Yes. Many states use the term ‘health’ to allow abortion up to birth. I’m sure Colorado and the church are defining ‘health’ in two entirely different ways.

Link to comment
16 minutes ago, Ragerunner said:

Idaho’s law will restrict members religious freedom.

Why are you assuming that the Church’s position is not an issue of knowledge of health and reason, but a religious belief/doctrine?

Link to comment
11 minutes ago, Calm said:

Why are you assuming that the Church’s position is not an issue of knowledge of health and reason, but a religious belief/doctrine?

I think it both. I also think the church’s position show their concern for the mother by going beyond the discussion of life or death, but the overall health and safety of the mother.
But the church adding ‘religious freedom’ to its abortion position this week show they also are seeing a connection/concern with these new abortion laws and religious freedom. 
 

If not then they would have had no reason to make such an edit.

Edited by Ragerunner
Link to comment
24 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Yes. Many states use the term ‘health’ to allow abortion up to birth. I’m sure Colorado and the church are defining ‘health’ in two entirely different ways.

Do you have any clear evidence to support this opinion?

Link to comment
36 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

We moved away from the west coast to get away from all the craziness. Perhaps such places will become meccas for those who want to enjoy how things are done there?

Well this is federal money. We borrow it from China to give it to Europe to spend on Africa and Central America so that China doesn't spend it on Africa and Central America. It makes perfect sense to me what could possibly go wrong?

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...