Jump to content
Seriously No Politics ×

Funeral questions


Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, SkyRock said:

My aunt died and I was asked to dedicate the grave. I had to quickly get my recommend renewed, as the dedication requires a current recommend.

Where is that said?

Link to comment
3 hours ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

Huh?  Really?  That's weird.  As far as I know, that would make it the only Melchizedek priesthood ordinance (performed outside of a temple) that requires a temple recommend to perform. 

Is there any handbook citation on this?  Did one of your local leaders make a mistake by requiring the recommend? I'm really quite baffled.

Agree

Link to comment

Read this decades ago - never been quite sure what I think about it:

https://www.bofm.blog/amazing-story-about-resurrection/

EXPERIENCE OF ZEKE JOHNSON, son of Joel Hills Johnson, born in 1869.(Recorded in the JOHNSON BULLETIN, September 1973)

“I have been requested to relate an experience I had in 1908-9 in San Juan Co [Utah]. I was just making a home in Blanding and the whole country there was covered with trees and sagebrush. I was working hard to clear the ground to plant a few acres of corn. We had five acres cleared and stared to plant corn. My little boy, Roy, about 7 or 8 years old was there to help me plant the corn. I’d plow around the place, then he would plant the furrow with corn, then I’d cover it and plow again. While I was plowing on that piece of ground, I discovered there were ancient houses there, that is the remains of them.

As I was plowing around I noticed that my plow had turned out the skeleton of a small child, the skull and backbone, but most of the bones of course were decayed and gone. Part of the skeleton was there, so I stopped immediately as my plow had passes it a little. I turned and looked back against the bar of the plow between the needles. As I was looking at that little skeleton that I had plowed out and wondering, all of a sudden, to my surprise, I saw the bones begin to wiggle and they began to change position and to take different color and within a minute there lay a beautiful little skeleton. It was a perfect little skeleton.

Then I saw the inner parts of the natural body coming in the entrails, etc. I saw the flesh coming on, and I saw the skin come on the body when the inner parts of the body were complete. A beautiful head of hair adorned the top of the head, and in about a half minute after the hair was on the head, it had a beautiful crystal decoration in the hair. It was combed beautifully and parted on one side. In about half a minute after the hair was on the head, the child raised up on her feet. She was lying a little on her left side with her back toward me. Because of this I wasn’t able to discern the sex of the child, but as she raised, a beautiful robe came down over her left shoulder and I saw it must be a girl.

She looked at me and I looked at her, and for a quarter of a minute we just looked at each other smiling. Then in my ambition to get hold of her, I said, ‘Oh you beautiful child.’ I reached out as if I would embrace her and she disappeared. That was all I saw, and I just stood there and wondered and thought for a few minutes… Now, I couldn’t tell that story to anyone, because it was so mysterious to me and such. Why should I have such a miraculous experience? I couldn’t feature a human being in such a condition as to accidentally plow that little body out and see it come alive. A body of a child about 5 to 7 years old, I’d say. I just couldn’t tell that story to anyone until finally, one day I met a dear friend of mine, Stake Patriarch, Wayne II. Redd of Blanding. He stopped me on the street, and said, ‘Zeke, you have had an experience on this mesa you won’t tell, and I want you to tell me.’ Well, I told it to him. Then he had me tell it to other friends and since then I’ve told it in 4 temples in the United States, and many meeting houses, many socials, Fast meetings, and at Conference time.

I wondered and worried about it for years as to why I was allowed to see it, a common man like me – uneducated as I was. Why was I, just a common man, allowed to see such a marvelous manifestation of God’s powers? One day as I was walking along with my hoe on my shoulder, going to hoe some corn, something said, ‘Stop under the shade of the tree for a few minutes and rest.’ This just came to me and I thought I would, so I stopped there and this was given to me. It was an answer to my prayers. I prayed incessantly for an answer as to why I was privileged to see that resurrection. Then I was told why. When the child was buried there, it was either in time of war with the different tribes, or it was wintertime when the ground was frozen, and they had no tools to dig deep graves. If it were during time of war they couldn’t possibly take time to dig a deep grave. They just planted the little body as they could under the circumstances. Then it was done, the sorrowing Mother knew that it was such a little shallow grave that in her sorrow she cried out to the little group present, ‘That little shallow grave, the first beast that comes along will smell her body, and will dig her up and scatter her to the four winds. Her bones will be scattered all over these flats.’

There just happened to be a man present holding the Priesthood. (A Nephite or a Jaredite, I don’t know which, because they both had been in this country.) This man said, ‘Sister, calm your sorrows. Whenever that little body is disturbed or uncovered, the Lord will call her up and she will live.’ Since that time I have taken great comfort, great cheer, consolation, and satisfaction with praise in my heart and soul, until I haven’t the words to express it, that it was I that uncovered that little body.

Thank you for listening to me. I just can’t tell this without crying.” Zeke Johnson, son of Joel Hills Johnson

Link to comment
2 hours ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

After further reflection, I think a temple recommend would be required for performing an ordinance that 1) requires keys AND 2) is performed outside of one's home ward or stake.

Yes that is only to show that you have the M.P. to an officiator who doesn't know you 

Link to comment
4 hours ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

Huh?  Really?  That's weird.  As far as I know, that would make it the only Melchizedek priesthood ordinance (performed outside of a temple) that requires a temple recommend to perform. 

Is there any handbook citation on this?  Did one of your local leaders make a mistake by requiring the recommend? I'm really quite baffled.

My wife looked it up and found it in the Handbook.  I got my recommend renewed within 2 days.   The grave was in my home state but not my stake.

Link to comment
12 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Dressing for the afterlife has been a part of numerous religions.  I wouldn't want to be buried in anything else - what better to wear?

Since I want to be cremated or buried in a green grave, I want something that won’t add toxic fumes to the air or is completely biodegradable. I don’t believe they make the temple clothing completely so. 

Link to comment
8 hours ago, Rain said:

. I just don't understand a reason the church would direct people to do it when it's not like the clothes will still be there years down the road

The act creates a sacred space. 

Link to comment
12 hours ago, bsjkki said:

If you want to plan the service yourself without needing approval for everything and without a plan of salvation talk, it might be best to have the service at the funeral home. 
 

This is exactly we found out when planning our son's funeral.  Bishop had to approve all music and he had to give the required plan of salvation sermon.  I didn't want my son's memorial to be just another church service.  We moved it to a private venue.

Link to comment
5 hours ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

After further reflection, I think a temple recommend would be required for performing an ordinance that 1) requires keys AND 2) is performed outside of one's home ward or stake. If that's the case, the ordinance could have been performed without the recommend if it had occurred in your home stake. It wasn't the ordinance per se that required the recommend, but the circumstances in which it was performed. 

Even then, the recommend is only a convenient shortcut, I think.  Back in the 1990s, before teenagers received limited use temple recommends, I had to get a special recommend (not a temple recommend) from my home-ward Bishop in order to go to a neighboring stake to ordain my best friend to the Aaronic Priesthood.  (He was a convert and his father was not a member, so he chose me to do it).  I suppose that a temple recommend can be used in that same manner.  

Long story short: Today I learned that a grave dedication is a priesthood ordinance requiring keys.  Hadn't known that before.  I thought it was more akin to a home dedication or a father's blessing, neither of which are priesthood ordinances that require keys.  

Moving on now.  As you were... 

I resigned my membership several years ago.  Since then, upon request, I have dedicated three graves.  No one asked what my status was with regards to the church.

Link to comment
1 hour ago, sunstoned said:

I resigned my membership several years ago.  Since then, upon request, I have dedicated three graves.  No one asked what my status was with regards to the church.

That's interesting.  It's a Priesthood ordinance.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/priesthood-ordinances-and-blessings/dedicating-graves?lang=eng

Link to comment
3 hours ago, sunstoned said:

I resigned my membership several years ago.  Since then, upon request, I have dedicated three graves.  No one asked what my status was with regards to the church.

In any of those instances, was it a bishop who presided at and conducted the funeral and, if so, was he aware of your status? He should not have allowed it in that case. 
 

On the other hand, a graveside prayer may be given in lieu of a grave dedication and can be offered by anyone the family chooses. Perhaps that’s what those who asked you to participate had in mind. Such a prayer, though, is not properly termed or regarded as a dedication of the grave, which is a Melchizedek priesthood ordinance. 
 

Here’s the relevant passage from the handbook:

Who Dedicates the Grave

A person who dedicates a grave should hold the Melchizedek Priesthood and be authorized by the priesthood leader who conducts the service.
If the family prefers, a graveside prayer may be offered instead of a dedicatory prayer. It may be offered by anyone the family chooses.
To act as voice in dedicating a grave, a person who is outside his own ward must show a current temple recommend to the priesthood leader who presides over the service. Or he may show a Recommend to Perform an Ordinance signed by a member of his bishopric.

 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
Link to comment
8 hours ago, sunstoned said:

I resigned my membership several years ago.  Since then, upon request, I have dedicated three graves.  No one asked what my status was with regards to the church.

Did the people who ask you know that you aren't a member?  And did you know that we believe that priesthood authority is necessary to dedicate a grave?

Link to comment
13 hours ago, SkyRock said:

My wife looked it up and found it in the Handbook.  I got my recommend renewed within 2 days.   The grave was in my home state but not my stake.

There it is.

Outside your stake.  Nobody knew what priesthood you had, and the proof was the recommend 

Edited by mfbukowski
Link to comment
11 hours ago, sunstoned said:

  .... just another church service. 

Interesting 

Link to comment
14 hours ago, SkyRock said:

My wife looked it up and found it in the Handbook.  I got my recommend renewed within 2 days.   The grave was in my home state but not my stake.

Same requirement for all ordinances, if you wanted to baptize someone outside your ward, same requirement.  No mystery, just assuring priesthood authority 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

What a graceless and disgusting comment.  Way to lean into the bitter ex-mo stereotype.  That'll do a lot for your image and cred on this board. 

Assuming that .... nevermind 

Link to comment
8 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

In any of those instances, was it a bishop who presided at and conducted the funeral and, if so, was he aware of your status? He should not have allowed it in that case. 
 

On the other hand, a graveside prayer may be given in lieu of a grave dedication and can be offered by anyone the family chooses. Perhaps that’s what those who asked you to participate had in mind. Such a prayer, though, is not properly termed or regarded as a dedication of the grave, which is a Melchizedek priesthood ordinance. 
 

Here’s the relevant passage from the handbook:

Who Dedicates the Grave

A person who dedicates a grave should hold the Melchizedek Priesthood and be authorized by the priesthood leader who conducts the service.
If the family prefers, a graveside prayer may be offered instead of a dedicatory prayer. It may be offered by anyone the family chooses.
To act as voice in dedicating a grave, a person who is outside his own ward must show a current temple recommend to the priesthood leader who presides over the service. Or he may show a Recommend to Perform an Ordinance signed by a member of his bishopric.

 

Exactly right and totally inoffensive.

Thanks Scott.

Link to comment
4 hours ago, bluebell said:

A non-member shouldn't be allowed to do it, as they don't have the authority (per our beliefs).  What is so horrible about Scott stating that?

They can dedicate a grave, anyone can use that language to signify their ritual; just shouldn’t be labeled as a Latter-day Saint ordinance/ritual.  And it seems to me while a Latter-day Saint ordinance creates a particular kind of sacred space for believers, others’ forms of dedication can provide the same purpose for those who are not Saints, but still see gravesites as benefiting from being holy ground, whether they believe it is the dead benefitting or it is the living or both.

Edited by Calm
Link to comment
46 minutes ago, Calm said:

They can dedicate a grave, anyone can use that language to signify their ritual; just shouldn’t be labeled as a Latter-day Saint ordinance/ritual.  And it seems to me while a Latter-day Saint ordinance creates a particular kind of sacred space for believers, others’ forms of dedication can provide the same purpose for those who are not Saints, but still see gravesites as benefiting from being holy ground, whether they believe it is the dead benefitting or it is the living or both.

Yes, I was speaking from a Latter-day Saint perspective. 

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...