Funeral questions

[sunstoned]

14 hours ago, bluebell said:

Did the people who ask you know that you aren't a member?  And did you know that we believe that priesthood authority is necessary to dedicate a grave?

Reading this thread is when I found out about priesthood and grave dedication.  Because it takes place in a public cemetery I thought anyone could say a prayer.  Apparently everyone else thought the same thing.  I did not evoke or reference the priesthood in my prayer.

[sunstoned]

19 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

In any of those instances, was it a bishop who presided at and conducted the funeral and, if so, was he aware of your status? He should not have allowed it in that case. 
 

On the other hand, a graveside prayer may be given in lieu of a grave dedication and can be offered by anyone the family chooses. Perhaps that’s what those who asked you to participate had in mind. Such a prayer, though, is not properly termed or regarded as a dedication of the grave, which is a Melchizedek priesthood ordinance. 
 

Here’s the relevant passage from the handbook:

Who Dedicates the Grave

A person who dedicates a grave should hold the Melchizedek Priesthood and be authorized by the priesthood leader who conducts the service.
If the family prefers, a graveside prayer may be offered instead of a dedicatory prayer. It may be offered by anyone the family chooses.
To act as voice in dedicating a grave, a person who is outside his own ward must show a current temple recommend to the priesthood leader who presides over the service. Or he may show a Recommend to Perform an Ordinance signed by a member of his bishopric.

 

Reading this thread is when I found out about priesthood and grave dedication.  Because it takes place in a public cemetery I thought anyone could say a prayer.  Apparently everyone else thought the same thing.  I did not evoke or reference the priesthood in my prayer.

[Scott Lloyd]

3 hours ago, sunstoned said:

Reading this thread is when I found out about priesthood and grave dedication.  Because it takes place in a public cemetery I thought anyone could say a prayer.  Apparently everyone else thought the same thing.  I did not evoke or reference the priesthood in my prayer.

Some priesthood ordinances do transpire in public. A blessing on a sick or injured person, for example, can occur in a hospital or even on the street or other public setting when necessary. Even a baptism, when no font is available, can occur in the ocean or a pond or lake. When I was a district leader on my mission, we had a baptism in a public swimming pool because there was no conveniently located font.  
 

So the fact that a grave dedication occurs in a public cemetery does not make it any the less a priesthood ordinance — provided it is performed by an authorized Melchizedek Priesthood holder. 
 

But you are right in assuming anyone can say a graveside prayer if requested by the family. 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[MustardSeed]

On 6/23/2022 at 1:38 PM, Chum said:

Welcome back, btw.

🧐

[Peacefully]

Maybe someone asked this already, but if I am cremated and my ashes scattered, how can my resting place be dedicated? 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Peacefully

[Rain]

3 hours ago, Peacefully said:

Maybe someone asked this already, but if I am cremated and my ashes scattered, how can my resting place be dedicated? 

I've been thinking about that

[MrShorty]

5 hours ago, Peacefully said:

Maybe someone asked this already, but if I am cremated and my ashes scattered, how can my resting place be dedicated? 

Personally, I'm not sure I see a difference between a 6×3 plot of land under which you're buried and an acre of land where your ashes are disbursed or a shelf/drawer/vault with a pot. I think God understands the idea behind "dedicating" a person's final resting place even when it is not a traditional grave.

[rongo]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

I've been thinking about that

I don't think you dedicate a grave if you aren't buried in a grave. One of the drawbacks to cremation? 🤷‍♀️

[Scott Lloyd]

On 6/25/2022 at 1:49 PM, Peacefully said:

Maybe someone asked this already, but if I am cremated and my ashes scattered, how can my resting place be dedicated? 

 

On 6/25/2022 at 5:36 PM, Rain said:

I've been thinking about that

Perhaps a dedication of a grave, like the dedication of a home or other structure or a father’s blessing or other priesthood blessing pronounced on an individual, is somewhat optional in the sense that it can bring spiritual peace and assurance to people’s hearts and call down divine blessings, but ill fortune doesn’t necessarily follow if it doesn’t happen. 
 

When I was in my childhood and youth, it was a regular and routine thing in the Church to hold a formal dedication for a new ward meetinghouse. These days, that rarely happens unless the building is a stake center, and I’m not sure it’s common even then. 
 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[Meadowchik]

On 6/23/2022 at 8:13 AM, Rain said:

The church handbook says:

"If a member of the stake presidency, an Area Seventy in his area, or a General Authority attends the funeral, he presides. The person conducting consults him in advance and recognizes him during the service."

Why does he need to be recognized at a funeral?

"Where possible, deceased members who were endowed should be buried or cremated in temple clothing."

The clothing is going to burn or rot away.  Why does it matter that the person is in temple clothes?

"If the grave will be dedicated, he consults with the family and asks a Melchizedek Priesthood holder to perform the dedication. Instructions are provided in 18.16. If the family prefers, a graveside prayer can be offered instead."

Why would someone want a dedication over a prayer?
                    

I loved my mother's service. The priesthood leaders were recognized, and the bishop conducted but only said about a paragraph of remarks. The only speakers were us their children, just as mom wanted. She wanted the proper burial clothing and gave me permission in advance to help dress her body. Even though I left the church, she trusted me and felt that since I had been endowed that was enough. It was a beautiful experience for me and I am glad I was able to care for her remains in the manner she wanted. It was special to me because it was special to her. 

My brother dedicated the grave, but only from a distance because of the rules at the military cemetery. Again, because that's what she wanted. 

I believe that if you have a good relationship with the deceased, one of the sweetest expressions of love is to respect their wishes in death.

[bluebell]

22 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

I loved my mother's service. The priesthood leaders were recognized, and the bishop conducted but only said about a paragraph of remarks. The only speakers were us their children, just as mom wanted. She wanted the proper burial clothing and gave me permission in advance to help dress her body. Even though I left the church, she trusted me and felt that since I had been endowed that was enough. It was a beautiful experience for me and I am glad I was able to care for her remains in the manner she wanted. It was special to me because it was special to her. 

 

My mother and I dressed my grandmother in her temple clothes for her funeral and it was the one bright light in that whole day.  It was an incredible experience and I feel so blessed to have gotten to share it with the women I love most in the whole world.

[rongo]

I've had very good experiences with funerals as church services (under the auspices of the Church), and have presided over many from very inactive members with mostly or all non-member family and friends. As many have discussed here, I don't think it's the time or place to force feed the old 2nd discussion, but I do think it's an excellent opportunity to briefly testify about the reality of the physical resurrection. We will see him/her again, in a body free from pain and problems. Brevity is usually better than long-windedness, and the important thing to leave attendees with is that God loves the person, He loves us, and He will make things all right. 

The after funeral meal is usually a really good healing and calming event, sometimes more so than the service itself. 

We had a man who died from anesthesia complications in routine gall bladder surgery a day shy of his 50th birthday (he never woke up, and had no obvious contraindications. It was a medical mystery, and "just one of those things"). He was a convert. His mother and sister flew in from Iowa, and were devastated because of the suddenness. At the graveside, I felt strongly to have his mother say what was on her heart, and that she should say the prayer. It was obviously not a dedication of the grave under priesthood authority, but it was clear to me that it was what his sister and mother needed for closure and peace. 

As a non-essential ordinance, it's not the end of the world if a grave isn't dedicated. It's a "nice to have" ordinance, but we aren't going to do the by proxy in the temple.  

Sometimes, it is necessary for the bishop to override what the family wants in order to keep the service within the range of decorum. My mother-in-law wanted an unorthodox service, with over 20 songs and a multitude of speakers that would have stretched it for hours. My wife's father and some of her siblings were angry with the bishop for scaling it way down, because this was "against the wishes of the deceased," but it was a far, far better service because of it --- and I think those who were upset acknowledged that. 

A tough one was letting people know that they couldn't video record a funeral in the chapel, but that line has been blurred big time with streaming services over the last several years. Same with streaming a baptism --- it's not too much of a stretch to recording a baptism on a phone. 

[carbon dioxide]

On 6/23/2022 at 11:54 AM, Rain said:

 

I get people wanting to wear their temple clothes. I just don't understand a reason the church would direct people to do it when it's not like the clothes will still be there years down the road.

When the resurrection occurs, the body will be restored.  Why not clothing for the body as well.   Perhaps the temple clothes will be restored as well but only in a glorified manner.

Many outside our faith dress the dead in dress and suits.  Why dress the dead in that? 

[carbon dioxide]

At my uncle funeral, the person who gave the main talk referenced the 5 or 6 questions that the Lord would ask us at judgement and with each of those questions, he went through the life of my uncle and how his life fit the answers to those questions.   It was really a good way to tie the the teachings of the church with the life of the deceased person together.  Much better than just another Sunday talk.  It was a good summary of his life.  The things that in the end are the ones that actually matter.

Edited July 1, 2022 by carbon dioxide

[Calm]

28 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

When the resurrection occurs, the body will be restored.  Why not clothing for the body as well.   Perhaps the temple clothes will be restored as well but only in a glorified manner.

I hope not.  First off, polyester. Second, as soon as I get that new body I am off for a very, very long run and climb . Longer and faster and higher than I ever managed in this life. Not going to happen in a maxi dress, even if the fabric converts to stain resistant all cotton.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Calm

[Rain]

1 hour ago, carbon dioxide said:

When the resurrection occurs, the body will be restored.  Why not clothing for the body as well.   Perhaps the temple clothes will be restored as well but only in a glorified manner.

Many outside our faith dress the dead in dress and suits.  Why dress the dead in that? 

What I was looking for was an official type reason since it was in the handbook.  Someone above prefers to be buried in temple clothes and I have no problem with that.  But if that's the only reason then why put it in the handbook?  And if someone is blown up or just goes missing then I don't think that resurrection is connected to what they were wearing at the time as we don't do proxy burials for the dead.  So is there any real, doctrinal/logical reason it is in the handbook or is it just tradition?

Edited July 1, 2022 by Rain

[Peacefully]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

What I was looking for was an official type reason since it was in the handbook.  Someone above prefers to be buried in temple clothes and I have no problem with that.  But if that's the only reason then why put it in the handbook?  And if someone is blown up or just goes missing then I don't think that resurrection is connected to what they were wearing at the time as we don't do proxy burials for the dead.  So is there any real, doctrinal/logical reason it is in the handbook or is it just tradition?

My husband and I had dinner with a couple of member friends the other evening. The husband is the bishop of a singles ward. We started talking about the fact that we all plan to be cremated. I said the cremation service I’m looking into said we can be dressed in our temple clothes to be cremated but I also know the church allows putting the clothes next to the body. Our friend said he had experience with this years ago when he asked to dress a member who had died but authorities would not allow anyone near the body because of decomposition and other issues. The clothes were buried with the body. 

Edited July 1, 2022 by Peacefully

[carbon dioxide]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

I hope not.  First off, polyester. Second, as soon as I get that new body I am off for a very, very long run and climb . Longer and faster and higher than I ever managed in this life. Not going to happen in a maxi dress, even if the fabric converts to stain resistant all cotton.

I like things that blow up. On reason the 4th of July is my favorite holiday.  So my first act after exaltation is creating a big star and then blowing it up in a super nova.  Or even better.  Creating two stars that blow up in a super nova that results in two black holes.  Then taking those two black holes and ramming those together creating such a big explosion that it creates gravity waves that go on forever. 

Edited July 1, 2022 by carbon dioxide