Popular Post california boy Posted June 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 21, 2022 8 hours ago, Rivers said: It’s not just a kiss. It’s a message to kids that same-sex relationships are fundamentally no different than a relationship between a man and woman. If there is a message, the message is that yes, there are gay people in the world. And yes, they can and do have loving relationships. 8 hours ago, Rivers said: It’s a subversion of the family unit as ordained by God which is the bedrock of our entire society. I don't get this kind of thinking AT ALL. How does it subvert the family unit? Did Buzz Lightyear take out his laser shooter and start breaking up family units? Has anyone who is gay proclaimed with outrage when they see a husband and wife kissing on the silver screen??? At some point, perhaps you might realize that while gay couples may not be identical to your family, they can still be a family. My partner and I have been together over 13 years. He is my partner every bit as much as your partner is for you. My very Mormon family consider him a part of our larger family. It took them opening up their hearts and minds. When they did, they found a very loving and kind man. They see the love and value he brings not only into my life but to their lives and their children's lives. If families are the bedrock of our entire society, then you should be encouraging gay couples to also form those families. 8 Link to comment
ttribe Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 (edited) 21 hours ago, Rivers said: It’s not just a kiss. It’s a message to kids that same-sex relationships are fundamentally no different than a relationship between a man and woman. It’s a subversion of the family unit as ordained by God which is the bedrock of our entire society. Don't be ridiculous. Heterosexual people will keep marrying heterosexual people and having babies. None of that is dependent upon a homosexual relationship just plain existing. Edited June 21, 2022 by ttribe 4 Link to comment
Hamba Tuhan Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, bluebell said: Is there room to not want to teach your kids that SS relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships in God's eyes and also not be accused of not liking gays? Nope. That can't be allowed. In the arithmetic that has been carefully crafted on this issue, of necessity disapproval of behaviour = hatred of person. This is a perfectly designed trap for Christians who believe in the centrality of love. Edited June 21, 2022 by Hamba Tuhan 4 Link to comment
Hamba Tuhan Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 17 minutes ago, ttribe said: Don't be ridiculous. Heterosexual people will keep marrying heterosexual people and having babies. None of that is dependent upon the existence of a homosexual relationship just plain existing. Yeah, it's completely ridiculous! Even suggesting otherwise is pure evil. 1 in 6 Gen Z adults are LGBT. And this number could continue to grow. Link to comment
The Nehor Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 Is that really the movie we should be worrying about? https://www.theonion.com/father-showing-kids-field-of-dreams-for-first-time-un-1819578976 Link to comment
ttribe Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 16 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: Yeah, it's completely ridiculous! Even suggesting otherwise is pure evil. 1 in 6 Gen Z adults are LGBT. And this number could continue to grow. Your implied assumption is that being LBGT is a choice. The evidence is mixed, at best, on that assumption but carry on with your bigotry. 1 Link to comment
Hamba Tuhan Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, ttribe said: The evidence is mixed, at best ... The historical, anthropological, and linguistic evidence isn't. Quote ... but carry on with your bigotry. Yep: disagreement = hatred. It has to be, or the whole discourse is at risk of self-deconstructing even sooner. Edited June 21, 2022 by Hamba Tuhan 1 Link to comment
ttribe Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: The historical, anthropological, and linguistic evidence isn't. Yep: disagreement = hatred. It has to be, or the whole discourse is at risk of unravelling. Well given your accusation against me that I was saying anyone was engaging in "pure evil" (which I didn't), I don't think I'm the one bearing the responsibility for taking the discourse down a level...or three. ETA: I'm thinking the scientific evidence will ultimately overwhelm the historical, anthropological, and linguistic evidence. Edited June 21, 2022 by ttribe 3 Link to comment
Hamba Tuhan Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 (edited) 36 minutes ago, ttribe said: I don't think I'm the one bearing the responsibility for taking the discourse down a level...or three. Nice wordplay! But I was using discourse in the Foucauldian sense: 'Any discourse that attempts to represent dominant ideologies as natural or commonsensical is hegemonical' (Machin and Mayr 2012: 24; Wodak and Meyer, 2016: 9). Edited June 21, 2022 by Hamba Tuhan Link to comment
ttribe Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: Nice wordplay! But I was using discourse in the Foucauldian sense: 'Any discourse that attempts to represent dominant ideologies as natural or commonsensical is hegemonical (Machin and Mayr 2012: 24; Wodak and Meyer, 2016: 9). I wasn't. Link to comment
california boy Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: The historical, anthropological, and linguistic evidence isn't. Yep: disagreement = hatred. It has to be, or the whole discourse is at risk of self-deconstructing even sooner. Since you are making the accusation that disagreement = hatred, maybe you could point out in this thread where ANYONE actually believes that or has wrote anything even remotely like that. 3 Link to comment
Hamba Tuhan Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, ttribe said: I wasn't. I know. Link to comment
Calm Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, ttribe said: Your implied assumption is that being LBGT is a choice. The evidence is mixed, at best, on that assumption but carry on with your bigotry. If the evidence is mixed, then why would it be bigotry to assume that it could be a choice? (just asking the question, I don’t claim a position on the choice issue because I think it depends on what is identified as the choice or how choice is defined.) Edited June 21, 2022 by Calm 1 Link to comment
Ragerunner Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 (edited) If a parent feels they don’t want their child to be exposed to a gay kiss, then simply don’t watch the movie. It really is that simple. What I find interesting is the lack of discussion threads about cartoon movies that show violence, killings, children being raised out of wedlock, theft, people lying and so much more. Edited June 21, 2022 by Ragerunner 3 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 2 hours ago, california boy said: At some point, perhaps you might realize that while gay couples may not be identical to your family, they can still be a family. My partner and I have been together over 13 years. He is my partner every bit as much as your partner is for you. My very Mormon family consider him a part of our larger family. It took them opening up their hearts and minds. When they did, they found a very loving and kind man. They see the love and value he brings not only into my life but to their lives and their children's lives. If families are the bedrock of our entire society, then you should be encouraging gay couples to also form those families. Okay, but have you ever considered the advantages of living and later dying alone and unloved instead? That way they will only suspect you of being gay. 1 Link to comment
Hamba Tuhan Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Calm said: If the evidence is mixed, then why would it be bigotry to assume that it could be a choice? Or something else altogether, which I suspect is (has been?) far more common in our days. But yeah, it's an important question, one that highlights how thoroughly this matter depends on defending the dominant discourse rather than dispassionately considering evidence. Edited June 21, 2022 by Hamba Tuhan Link to comment
provoman Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 On 6/19/2022 at 6:58 PM, Fether said: Here is what the REAL issue is… It isn’t lore friendly. Toy story 1 takes place in 1995. Buzz light year was supposed to be a starwars equivalent for the toy story universe. There is NO way a movie released in 1995 would have been as widely accepted as StarWars if it had a gay kiss If we consider that all minions are “male”, then there was a “gay kiss” in Despicable Me - with one of the minions dressed in “female” clothes Link to comment
SeekingUnderstanding Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, bluebell said: In it, this sister says that anyone who has a problem with the kiss is homophobic. She says it as if it's a given fact, but I don't know that I agree. Personally, I probably wouldn't have an issue with it and it likely won't stop me from letting my littles watch it (if they even want to, which is doubtful), but is there room to not want to teach your kids that SS relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships in God's eyes and also not be accused of not liking gays? Let’s say you have a friend that loved and supported you *despite you being a Latter-day Saint. You find out that this friend would never let their kid see a movie that showed a temple in the background, or ever see a tv show that showed a Latter-day Saint in a non-demonized role. Further you find that they are upset enough at the companies producing “the Latter-day Saint agenda” that they are boycotting the company producing said film or show. Do you agree that this person loves and supports you? Do they hold any bigoted feelings towards the church? Edited June 21, 2022 by SeekingUnderstanding 1 Link to comment
Hamba Tuhan Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 19 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said: Let’s say you have a friend that loved and supported you *despite you being a Latter-day Saint. You find out that this friend would never let their kid see a movie that showed a temple in the background, or ever see a tv show that showed a Latter-day Saint in a non-demonized role. Further you find that they are upset enough at the companies producing “the Latter-day Saint agenda” that they are boycotting the film. You just described my friend Clint! Link to comment
sunstoned Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 3 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: Nope. That can't be allowed. In the arithmetic that has been carefully crafted on this issue, of necessity disapproval of behaviour = hatred of person. This is a perfectly designed trap for Christians who believe in the centrality of love. The problem is not what Christians believe. It's what Christians do. The LDS church got involved politically and actively opposed gay marriage. That's what got them in spotlight and that's what brought the criticism. Same with other fundy Christian churches. It churches wouldn't push their beliefs on non-members, they would be largely left alone. 3 Link to comment
Hamba Tuhan Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 12 minutes ago, sunstoned said: It [sic] churches wouldn't push their beliefs on non-members, they would be largely left alone. This is simply not true (and not just because you have included a false premise). The belief that marriage between a man and a woman is essential to God's plan must be labelled 'homophobic' regardless of political participation or lack thereof. Link to comment
InCognitus Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 11 minutes ago, sunstoned said: It churches wouldn't push their beliefs on non-members, they would be largely left alone. How is this different than gay and gender identity agendas being pushed on children in schools? 2 Link to comment
bluebell Posted June 21, 2022 Share Posted June 21, 2022 1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said: Let’s say you have a friend that loved and supported you *despite you being a Latter-day Saint. You find out that this friend would never let their kid see a movie that showed a temple in the background, or ever see a tv show that showed a Latter-day Saint in a non-demonized role. Further you find that they are upset enough at the companies producing “the Latter-day Saint agenda” that they are boycotting the company producing said film or show. Do you agree that this person loves and supports you? Do they hold any bigoted feelings towards the church? I actually have a couple of friends like that. I’ve been friends with them since high school. They are Baptists and their pastor showed Godmakers in their church when we were teenagers. I’m going to hell if you ask them. But yes, I still consider them to be friends. We were closer in high school (and they were much more caustic back then when religion came up) but we still interact often. 2 Link to comment
Popular Post Chum Posted June 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, InCognitus said: How is this different than gay and gender identity agendas being pushed on children in schools? You mean as something that's meaningfully non-existent? Bringing that up because I just finished 27 years of being overly acquainted with every teacher my kids had - and "gay and gender identity agendas being pushed on children" isn't a thing that ever, ever, ever happened. Not to my family. Not for any family I know. Over 27 years, zero parents here reported anything remotely like that. However, I am hearing about teachers being uninterested in being dragged into someone else's culture war - one that that is functionally manifesting itself as a War On Teachers. To get out of that line of fire, they're looking for exits. That's not going to land well for schools have been short-staffed for more years than I can remember. So, are there meatheads in school systems? Sure. Of every possible stripe, including meatheads that see a "gay and gender identity agendas being pushed on children", everywhere they look, no matter what's actually there. It's a big planet. Twitwits are all over it. They aren't representative of teachers. 6 Link to comment
Popular Post california boy Posted June 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted June 21, 2022 38 minutes ago, InCognitus said: How is this different than gay and gender identity agendas being pushed on children in schools? I know this is a mindset that is being sold, but perhaps you could explain exactly what gay agenda is being pushed on children in schools. I am not asking for accusations or antidotal reports, I am asking for a broad agenda that is being pushed. Because what I see is once again religion is trying to erase those that are gay by trying to push the idea that gay couples with children don't really exist and are attacking those families simply because they want to push their religious beliefs into the school system. So yeah, religion continues to interfere in peoples lives in order to push their narrative. And people wonder why so many are leaving organized religion. Maybe the vast majority of the population (70%)do believe that gay families have a right to exist and have a right to be acknowledged in the public square. 6 Link to comment
Recommended Posts