Large uptick in pro-abortion acts of vandalism/theft/firebombing since SCOTUS opinion draft leak

[LoudmouthMormon]

Kind of important to pay attention to stuff like this.  Here's a list of Attacks on Churches, Pro-Life Organizations, and Property Since the Dobbs Leak on May 2, 2022 (as of 6/13/22):

https://downloads.frc.org/EF/EF22F17.pdf?fbclid=IwAR11XG0QPqGMPrxFoG2U-wgu4D__TPKt48f217ULDAC_bSVf_CILNjE4T2Q

48 separate incidents in the last ~7 weeks or so.  Most of them acts of vandalism, theft, property destruction.  Or bomb threats/threats of violence.  Some of them involve quite a lot of property destruction, some of it quite troubling, like breaking into a church and decapitating the statues.   A firebombing or two.

It's always interesting to see people's reactions to stuff like this.  So have at it, folks. 

[teddyaware]

1 hour ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Kind of important to pay attention to stuff like this.  Here's a list of Attacks on Churches, Pro-Life Organizations, and Property Since the Dobbs Leak on May 2, 2022 (as of 6/13/22):

https://downloads.frc.org/EF/EF22F17.pdf?fbclid=IwAR11XG0QPqGMPrxFoG2U-wgu4D__TPKt48f217ULDAC_bSVf_CILNjE4T2Q

48 separate incidents in the last ~7 weeks or so.  Most of them acts of vandalism, theft, property destruction.  Or bomb threats/threats of violence.  Some of them involve quite a lot of property destruction, some of it quite troubling, like breaking into a church and decapitating the statues.   A firebombing or two.

It's always interesting to see people's reactions to stuff like this.  So have at it, folks. 

I don’t think you’ll get much reaction to this alarming story here because it appears most of the participants on this board are only worried about right wing violence (see all the activity on the recent thread concerning last week’s incident at the Coeur d’Alene, Idaho gay pride event and you’ll see what I mean).  Meanwhile, Antifa, BLM and their allied violent crazies can murder 25 people, seriously injure hundreds of others, and cause 2 billion dollars in malicious property damage and nary a peep will be heard. Why? Because many feel 20’20’s continual orgy of violence is excusable because the mobs of marauders are deemed to be oppressed people. At the same time, those who were inwardly sickened by 2020’s nightly conflagrations are hesitant to voice condemnation because they’re fearful they’ll be condemned as racists by the politically correct.

P.S. All the above being said, if there are reactions on this thread they will likely be in negative response to this common sense post of mine.

Edited June 16, 2022 by teddyaware

[bsjkki]

I would not think anyone agrees with these acts of violence or vandalism. So, the thread will turn into an abortion debate which is pointless and futile. 

The violence could get much worse. Threats have been made. The violent fringe on the left and right will continue their bad acts. Hopefully, no one will justify violent behavior like was done in the past. (Not necessarily here but in our larger society.) 

*I do wonder if we will suffer more acts of vandalism. Churches are a target. 

Edited June 16, 2022 by bsjkki

[sunstoned]

 

I'll see your pro-live violence article and raise you three anti-abortion violence articles.  There is plenty of violence to go around.  We are devolving as a society.  We are becoming less tolerant, more mean spirited and more violent.  It didn't help at all to have a president in office for four years who basically promoted bad behavior by debasing women, making fun of a handicapper reported, and constantly made derogatory remarks to people who questioned him, gave a wink and a nod to hate groups, and of course lied.  

 

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/1998/anti-abortion-movement-marches-after-two-decades-arson-bombs-and-murder

httphttps://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/anti-abortion-violence-movement-increasess://www.prochoiceamerica.org/issue/anti-abortion-violence/

https://feminist.org/anti-abortion-violence/

[bsjkki]

11 hours ago, sunstoned said:

 

I'll see your pro-live violence article and raise you three anti-abortion violence articles.  There is plenty of violence to go around.  We are devolving as a society.  We are becoming less tolerant, more mean spirited and more violent.  It didn't help at all to have a president in office for four years who basically promoted bad behavior by debasing women, making fun of a handicapper reported, and constantly made derogatory remarks to people who questioned him, gave a wink and a nod to hate groups, and of course lied.  

 

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/1998/anti-abortion-movement-marches-after-two-decades-arson-bombs-and-murder

httphttps://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/anti-abortion-violence-movement-increasess://www.prochoiceamerica.org/issue/anti-abortion-violence/

https://feminist.org/anti-abortion-violence/

The current violence if from the last 7 weeks. At least two of your articles are from the nineties. 
 

It should be easy to condemn the violence. It’s not a competition. The fringes are violent and extreme rhetoric can trigger violence. Cooler heads need to prevail but at the moment, things are ratcheting up.

Edited June 16, 2022 by bsjkki

[The Nehor]

There has been an upswing. The first attack was in Wisconsin that was (quite bluntly) pathetically executed. It was so bad that there was legitimate discussion of it being faked. Additional information makes that unlikely but there are still oddities about that one that seem off. There is a group called Jane’s Revenge that have claimed responsibility for the attack and many of the ensuing attacks. There isn’t much information available on them other than a manifesto. So far the attacks have been limited to arson and vandalism but they have threatened more. Once they are better identified they will probably (rightly) be labeled a domestic terror group.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, teddyaware said:

I don’t think you’ll get much reaction to this alarming story here because it appears most of the participants on this board are only worried about right wing violence (see all the activity on the recent thread concerning last week’s incident at the Coeur d’Alene, Idaho gay pride event and you’ll see what I mean).  Meanwhile, Antifa, BLM and their allied violent crazies can murder 25 people, seriously injure hundreds of others, and cause 2 billion dollars in malicious property damage and nary a peep will be heard. Why? Because many feel 20’20’s continual orgy of violence is excusable because the mobs of marauders are deemed to be oppressed people. At the same time, those who were inwardly sickened by 2020’s nightly conflagrations are hesitant to voice condemnation because they’re fearful they’ll be condemned as racists by the politically correct.

P.S. All the above being said, if there are reactions on this thread they will likely be in negative response to this common sense post of mine.

Maybe if you didn’t throw out falsehoods and speculation when you tried to bring things like this up you wouldn’t get such a negative response. 25 people murdered by BLM and their allies? Try again.

I love the “nary a peep” bit. That is so insane it is ridiculous. The protests and associated violence were all over the news. All the time. There were literally dozens of livestreams recording it throughout in multiple locations. Where is this whining about a coverup coming from? Hmmm….likes to whine about how stuff isn’t getting coverage on his highly rated not news entertainment program? I am going to guess Tucker.

[Jaydes]

These people have no problem encouraging and finding ways to justify the murder of preborn children, so its only to be expected that the violent radicalism would begin extending to other groups of individuals as well.  A lot of the vandalism has even been targeting pregnancy support centers. 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Jaydes

[Jaydes]

5 hours ago, teddyaware said:

I don’t think you’ll get much reaction to this alarming story here because it appears most of the participants on this board are only worried about right wing violence

Well, despite the labels they may erroneously use, this violence is itself right wing in nature. 

5 hours ago, teddyaware said:

 Antifa, BLM and their allied violent crazies can murder 25 people, seriously injure hundreds of others, and cause 2 billion dollars in malicious property damage and nary a peep will be heard. 

That's blatantly false.

5 hours ago, teddyaware said:

 

P.S. All the above being said, if there are reactions on this thread they will likely be in negative response to this common sense post of mine.

In spite of the persecution complex, I do find it amusing how all but 2 posts after your comment were negative reactions to the terrorist acts, and had nothing to do with your post. 

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, Jaydes said:

These people have no problem encouraging and finding ways to justify the murder of preborn children, so its only to be expected that the violent radicalism would begin extending to other groups of individuals as well.  A lot of the vandalism has even been targeting pregnancy support centers. 

These centers are a waste of money, a lot of it tax money: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_pregnancy_center

The strategy is probably to focus attacks on these buildings to attract scrutiny for them in addition to the more direct violent symbolic nature of the attacks.

[Saint Bonaventure]

A couple of these incidents have hit close to home--geographically speaking.

My parish has a Knight of Columbus who is also a police officer. He's been in the narthex (gathering space) for the last month or so for Saturday evening and Sunday morning Mass.

Catholic Churches are often open all day, and into the evening, until locked up for the night. There's usually an early morning and/or late afternoon Mass, time set aside for Adoration and Reconciliation, for funerals, and just for people coming in to pray and read the Bible. I hope that doesn't change. 

[bsjkki]

Cooler heads. Article about how violence doesn’t help a cause. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/11/pro-choice-militants-pregnancy-crisis-centers-attacks-us

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by bsjkki

[Amulek]

10 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Here's a list of Attacks on Churches, Pro-Life Organizations, and Property Since the Dobbs Leak on May 2, 2022 (as of 6/13/22)

And don't forget the attempted assassination of a Supreme Court Justice.

 

 

[BlueDreams]

5 hours ago, Jaydes said:

These people have no problem encouraging and finding ways to justify the murder of preborn children, so its only to be expected that the violent radicalism would begin extending to other groups of individuals as well.  A lot of the vandalism has even been targeting pregnancy support centers. 

I’m more with @sunstoned on this one. There’s a series of social factors that are making extreme acts seem more justifiable. And it’s not this theory I’ve seen floated that you’re referencing in bold. In the US we have several problems coming to a head: 

a national governing body that is becoming more and more dysfunctional to the point that major concerns go unanswered and have been for a long time 

Greater social stratification on wealth and ideology especially. In so much that the “other side” are more and more seen as a threat in aggregate and the regular person as powerless compared to the rich. 
 

a sense of causes that would lead to death or the end of something deemed essential to ones rights/liberty…unless the people directly act (because again governing sources often won’t…or will act in a way that further entrenches/enables a problem) 

 

personally the bolded theory seems a stretch at best. It’s placing pro-life moral frameworks over a single group causing largely major vandalism and building damage as being okay with killing in general. For one that’s not how very pro-choice people see it. They distinguish the born and unborn in terms of personhood and then prioritize the woman’s needs and concerns over the fetus. Whether one agrees or disagrees with this framework still means that pro-choice people would not be likely to start committing violent acts of born humans anymore than a meat eater would naturally be more prone to mass shootings since they’re willing to endorse the mass slaughter of animals. after all any form of violence begets violence and if one is willing to kill one form of life for yourself than it’s a matter of time that you’d be willing to kill other forms of life. 

 

With luv, 

BD

Edited June 16, 2022 by BlueDreams

[pogi]

7 hours ago, Jaydes said:

These people have no problem encouraging and finding ways to justify the murder of preborn children, so its only to be expected that the violent radicalism would begin extending to other groups of individuals as well.  A lot of the vandalism has even been targeting pregnancy support centers. 

If this theory is true, I wonder how you explain the radical violence and vandalism caused by pro-lifer's - even to the point of murdering an abortion doctor.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/abortviolence/stories/gunn.htm

 

[HappyJackWagon]

13 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Kind of important to pay attention to stuff like this.  Here's a list of Attacks on Churches, Pro-Life Organizations, and Property Since the Dobbs Leak on May 2, 2022 (as of 6/13/22):

https://downloads.frc.org/EF/EF22F17.pdf?fbclid=IwAR11XG0QPqGMPrxFoG2U-wgu4D__TPKt48f217ULDAC_bSVf_CILNjE4T2Q

48 separate incidents in the last ~7 weeks or so.  Most of them acts of vandalism, theft, property destruction.  Or bomb threats/threats of violence.  Some of them involve quite a lot of property destruction, some of it quite troubling, like breaking into a church and decapitating the statues.   A firebombing or two.

It's always interesting to see people's reactions to stuff like this.  So have at it, folks. 

Violent protests do more to harm a cause than to help it, generally speaking. So IMO violence, whether from the right wing or the left is not only ugly but also counter productive. I have no problem condemning either side.

I don't think it's necessary or useful to compare and contrast 1 side's violence as better or worse than the others because that is only playing for political purposes and only further divides. Condemning violence doesn't need to be political and the fact that it is, even on this board with comments like Teddy's and Jaydes', only illustrates the massive problem we have with the radicalization of society.

[HappyJackWagon]

2 other quick comments about "pro-abortion" people. IMO there is a reason that "pro-choice" is a more accurate description and it's not just a PR game.

1- if you support abortion in certain circumstances such as rape, incest, health of the mother etc, should you be considered "pro-abortion"? I believe the VAST majority of people support access to abortion in certain circumstances. The differences come in where the line is drawn about acceptability.

2- I think it's quite common for people who are pro-life in their personal lives and decision and also be pro-choice in the public sphere. Many feel that even though they would not personally choose to participate in abortion they don't feel comfortable letting politicians or peers impose that kind of decision for someone else.

[ttribe]

12 hours ago, teddyaware said:

I don’t think you’ll get much reaction to this alarming story here because it appears most of the participants on this board are only worried about right wing violence (see all the activity on the recent thread concerning last week’s incident at the Coeur d’Alene, Idaho gay pride event and you’ll see what I mean).  Meanwhile, Antifa, BLM and their allied violent crazies can murder 25 people, seriously injure hundreds of others, and cause 2 billion dollars in malicious property damage and nary a peep will be heard. Why? Because many feel 20’20’s continual orgy of violence is excusable because the mobs of marauders are deemed to be oppressed people. At the same time, those who were inwardly sickened by 2020’s nightly conflagrations are hesitant to voice condemnation because they’re fearful they’ll be condemned as racists by the politically correct.

P.S. All the above being said, if there are reactions on this thread they will likely be in negative response to this common sense post of mine.

This and your post in that other thread bring to mind the following question - Do you sympathize with the beliefs, rhetoric and actions of the White Nationalists?

[LoudmouthMormon]

11 hours ago, sunstoned said:

I'll see your pro-live violence article and raise you three anti-abortion violence articles.

Heh.  It's also always interesting in threads of a divisive nature, who is making points, and who is playing whataboutist dismissive minimizing games.  

I mean, although this is always done, by any side of any issue, it's always fascinating to watch.   

[LoudmouthMormon]

47 minutes ago, pogi said:

I wonder how you explain the radical violence and vandalism caused by pro-lifer's - even to the point of murdering an abortion doctor.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/abortviolence/stories/gunn.htm

I think there are similar explanations.  Hatred, fear, and ignorance, coupled with intolerance, fueled and encouraged by various media sources and agenda-driven organizations.  None of them are justifications or good defenses.

Do you disagree?  Or do you figure my list of vandalism, violence, and mayhem is somehow ok, because 18 years ago someone murdered an abortion doctor?

Edited June 16, 2022 by LoudmouthMormon

[SkyRock]

I find it interesting that most of Europe have abortion laws that would be more extreme than any state in the country.   If the Supreme Court hadn't jumped the gun with the badly written Roe (RBG and other liberal justices thought it was a badly written as well), America would have had some similar thing.

Instead we have had 50 years of intense division over the issue.  The partisans liked this, as it kept people divided and voting on this single issue.   TPTB on both sides never seemed to want to come to a reasonable compromise.  They liked how it drove people to the polls and kept them from looking at economics or other issues. 

It is just one of many wedge issues that divide us so we can be more easily ruled by the oligarchy. 

[LoudmouthMormon]

3 hours ago, Amulek said:

And don't forget the attempted assassination of a Supreme Court Justice.

My original post focused on church and pro-life resources, but this is a fair (and important) addition.

Wanna do your own research here?  Take a look through your chosen social media platform at folks who are saying things and using the hashtag #RuthSentUs.

[pogi]

1 hour ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

I think there are similar explanations.  Hatred, fear, and ignorance, coupled with intolerance, fueled and encouraged by various media sources and agenda-driven organizations.  None of them are justifications or good defenses.

Do you disagree?  Or do you figure my list of vandalism, violence, and mayhem is somehow ok, because 18 years ago someone murdered an abortion doctor?

No, I agree with you.  I was responding to Jaydes who was trying to link these crimes as a natural progression for pro-choicer's.  He was saying that because they are already ok with ending life, it makes sense that it would be easy for them to progress in other immoral ways.  That is nonsense.  I was trying to show that pro-lifer's are just as capable of these crimes - taking it even further to the point of murder.  I was showing that being pro-choice doesn't make someone more susceptible to these crimes because of their views on abortion - rather, it is as you said above.

[Saint Bonaventure]

2 hours ago, pogi said:

If this theory is true, I wonder how you explain the radical violence and vandalism caused by pro-lifer's - even to the point of murdering an abortion doctor.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/abortviolence/stories/gunn.htm

 

I've noticed that some--but by no means all--of the most fervent activists seem to suffer from some developmental/psychological issues. They disproportionately exhibit some anti-social and Cluster "B" tendencies, some signs of abuse/trauma, some signs of fantasy/reality confusion, and a need for professional help.

I'm not diagnosing (of course) and this is just my observation, but I do have some relevant training in this area. 

Consider that some of the letters and manifestos that are issued, and regardless of whether they are issued by a far-out pro-choice person or a far-out pro-life person, have the troubling markers that we find in the communications of dangerous criminals.

I'm confident that LDS leaders teach that we need to help our communities, and many popes have too. I try to remember that the folks who vandalize and set fire to churches and centers, who walk naked into Mass, who intimidate and brutalize, who kill doctors, need help. Sometimes they also need to be separated from the rest of us for our own protection. 

 

[Durangout]

https://www.mediaite.com/politics/group-declares-open-season-on-pro-lifers-gives-ultimatum-now-the-leash-is-off/