Any of you know Mission Presidents or Temple Presidents who didn't serve as bishops and stake presidents?

[nuclearfuels]

Surely there are alternate routes to leadership?

Seminary teachers possibly?

[Kenngo1969]

I was going to say "Three callings I'll never have" [Thank God!]:

• Bishop
• Stake President
• Temple President

Now, I can add a fourth:

• Seminary Teacher

  Sorry.

Don't know what else to tell you.

[rongo]

It's very rare, but there is a good reason for it. The experience of being a judge in Israel, dealing with people drama, and working with "mantle revelation" is invaluable for presiding over a mission. 

I'm aware of one: President Turek in the Warsaw Poland mission. He was a 37 year old native Pole who was an institute director in East Germany. And he was fantastic (my parents were the office couple under him).

[the narrator]

IRRC, Oaks was never a bishop or stake president, nor was he a mission or temple president. Several decades ago J. Reuben Clark was called straight to the first presidency without ever having served as any ecclesiastical leader, and I may be (or probably am) wrong, but I think Reuben may not have even been endowed at the time.

So there are definitely alternate routes to the First Presidency.

[Pyreaux]

I know the ancient Royal High Priesthood once its established, a High Priest normally obtains his High Priesthood by a royal marriage which sets him at a older age, but it seems a shame that it bars spontaneous conscription of things like boy prophets. No straight shot to the top, just climb the High Priestly Hierarchy. I suppose they'd need nothing short of a direct revelation to allow for jumping someone up through whole ranks.

[HappyJackWagon]

I knew a man who was called as a Mission President (10ish years ago) who had never been a bishop or Stake President, though he had been in bishoprics and even a counselor in a stake presidency.

I also had a seminary teacher once who was called as a mission president even though he had never been a Stake pres or Bishop. So it happens.

I think it would be MUCH more rare for a temple president to have never served in one of those callings.

[JAHS]

1 hour ago, the narrator said:

IRRC, Oaks was never a bishop or stake president, nor was he a mission or temple president. Several decades ago J. Reuben Clark was called straight to the first presidency without ever having served as any ecclesiastical leader, and I may be (or probably am) wrong, but I think Reuben may not have even been endowed at the time.

So there are definitely alternate routes to the First Presidency.

Oaks was a counselor in a stake presidency and he was a Stake mission president. Also being a University President and other callings he had certainly qualified him for  a leadership position.

[Duncan]

Neither President David O. McKay or President George Albert Smith weren't any calling really until after they were called to be an Apostle and later President of the Church. President Smith wasn't even married while serving as President. Everyone's path is different. Some folks who are Bishops, Stake Presidents, Area Seventies, MP never serve as a GA while others who haven't been any of that or all of it do serve, it's just so individual

[rongo]

O also think that nearly all of the outlier examples are 40 years old or older. Today, exceptions are usually due to need (rare languages, etc.).

[the narrator]

46 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Oaks was a counselor in a stake presidency and he was a Stake mission president. Also being a University President and other callings he had certainly qualified him for  a leadership position.

Huh? Did I say anything about whether or not he was qualified?

[JAHS]

14 minutes ago, the narrator said:

Huh? Did I say anything about whether or not he was qualified?

I didn't say you said that. I was just adding more information referring to the OP.

Edited June 15, 2022 by JAHS

[smac97]

2 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

Surely there are alternate routes to leadership?

Seminary teachers possibly?

List of 72 new temple presidents in 2022.  This has links to their bios, including past callings.  All the ones I looked at (ten or so) were former bishops and/or stake presidents, but also former plenty of other things as well (EQP, bishop/counselor, stake president/counselor, mission president/counselor, district president, temple president/counselor, temple ordinance worker, high councilor, area seventies, etc.).  

List of new mission presidents in 2022.  Links to bios.  Same as above.  The ones I looked at all included prior service as either a bishop or a stake president or both, but many other callings are also amply represented.

Quite a few former seminary teachers, gospel doctrine teachers, etc. listed there as well.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Ipod Touch]

King Solomon was the OG Temple President.

He never served as Bishop or SP. And frankly, I'd like to see GA and Temple President portraits conform to Solomon's.

[Kenngo1969]

5 hours ago, the narrator said:

IRRC, Oaks was never a bishop or stake president, nor was he a mission or temple president. Several decades ago J. Reuben Clark was called straight to the first presidency without ever having served as any ecclesiastical leader, and I may be (or probably am) wrong, but I think Reuben may not have even been endowed at the time.

So there are definitely alternate routes to the First Presidency.

True, he was in a Stake Presidency as a counselor, but never was he the "Top Dog."

[Kenngo1969]

2 hours ago, Ipod Touch said:

King Solomon was the OG Temple President.

He never served as Bishop or SP. And frankly, I'd like to see GA and Temple President portraits conform to Solomon's.

In the "old" [but "Restoration Era," still] days, they did.

[Duncan]

I did some digging and three Mission Presidents that served here, in the last twenty years, were never in a Stake Presidency. All had been Bishops though. One was a former missionary of Pres. Monson. The other one I recall they applied to be senior missionaries but weren't expecting to be called as Mission President. 

[mfbukowski]

Error

Edited June 16, 2022 by mfbukowski

[Kenngo1969]

3 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Error

Oh, no!  Say it isn't so!     My entire world now is wobbling on its axis!  I am shaken to my very core!  Of all of the things I was uncertain about, the one thing that I thought, positively, I could count on was the inerrancy of one Mark F. Bukowski!

Whatever shall I do?!  I'm afraid, alas!, that I will simply have to turn to dust and blow away, as chaff before the whirlwind!     

   

[nuclearfuels]

On 6/15/2022 at 4:54 PM, rongo said:

O also think that nearly all of the outlier examples are 40 years old or older. Today, exceptions are usually due to need (rare languages, etc.).

I would be very interested in learning these types of languages. Is there a list of them or is the usual - Chinese, Arabic. Russian?

[Calm]

Maybe Marshallese, Igbo, Bislama, or Tahitian…. Russian and Chinese are probably common enough by now given the missionary activity.  There were a number of missionaries in Russia when I went there in 93, they would be almost 50 by now plus all the Russian missionaries sent to the countries around Russia itself. Good size pool to choose from, probably quite a few bishops and SPs.  My nephew went to Ukraine as a Russian speaking missionary over two decades ago, another nephew taught in Mandarin in Canada.
 

 You should take a look at the languages the church’s website is published in.  Ones I haven’t even heard of (though languages were never my thing) While some missions have multiple native languages and the Mission President could use the most common one, it would be useful to have more than one. 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/languages?lang=eng

[Duncan]

There was this one Mission President, who served from 2018-2021, who wasn't a Bishop or a Stake President. Jeremy Guthrie. He played baseball, so I suspect that had something to do with it, relates to the youth and probably popular in certain parts of the church 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/2018-mission-presidents-called-to-serve-in-venezuela-brazil-provo-and-more?lang=eng

I'd be surprised if he was ever a High Priest even. 

[rongo]

9 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

I would be very interested in learning these types of languages. Is there a list of them or is the usual - Chinese, Arabic. Russian?

I don't think it's as easy as learning rare languages, because the Church is just as comfortable (probably even more comfortable) sending already connected Americans with no language skills as mission presidents. Many of these never do learn or become proficient in the language, and work only in English (some might be passable in a lingua franca, such as French). Because of this disadvantage, they almost always have ecclesiastical administration experience (i.e., bishop, stake president, at minimum). 

If you would like more leadership opportunity than you currently have, then I recommend that you:

1. Attend all church meetings and activities (including baptisms, firesides, etc.)

2. Be early to all meetings, every time

3. Greet people you don't know and get to know them. Talk to people.

4. Volunteer for service, and cheerfully serve in any and all service opportunities.

5. Stay after and clean up, every time.

6. Go out with the missionaries on appointments.

There is a big difference between being like this because it's intrinsic (how you really are and feel) and doing these things because you want to stand out more so you're considered for callings, but even people doing this for mercenary reasons stand out like a sore thumb. Same ten people, elite company, etc. Most men's potential is capped at elders quorum presidencies and bishoprics; the reality is that you usually need to also be wealthy and connected for consideration as stake president on up. But, that's okay --- the callings that really impact people's lives are bishop on down. People have relationships and rub shoulders with their local leaders and colleagues; the "upper" callings are administrative and don't really have an impact on people's lives. 

Mission presidents certainly have a big impact on their missionaries and often the countries they serve in (much less so in the Mormon Corridor), but you usually need to be wealthy and connected to the "Mormon royalty" network for consideration. It's just how it is. 

[Duncan]

44 minutes ago, rongo said:

I don't think it's as easy as learning rare languages, because the Church is just as comfortable (probably even more comfortable) sending already connected Americans with no language skills as mission presidents. Many of these never do learn or become proficient in the language, and work only in English (some might be passable in a lingua franca, such as French). Because of this disadvantage, they almost always have ecclesiastical administration experience (i.e., bishop, stake president, at minimum). 

If you would like more leadership opportunity than you currently have, then I recommend that you:

1. Attend all church meetings and activities (including baptisms, firesides, etc.)

2. Be early to all meetings, every time

3. Greet people you don't know and get to know them. Talk to people.

4. Volunteer for service, and cheerfully serve in any and all service opportunities.

5. Stay after and clean up, every time.

6. Go out with the missionaries on appointments.

There is a big difference between being like this because it's intrinsic (how you really are and feel) and doing these things because you want to stand out more so you're considered for callings, but even people doing this for mercenary reasons stand out like a sore thumb. Same ten people, elite company, etc. Most men's potential is capped at elders quorum presidencies and bishoprics; the reality is that you usually need to also be wealthy and connected for consideration as stake president on up. But, that's okay --- the callings that really impact people's lives are bishop on down. People have relationships and rub shoulders with their local leaders and colleagues; the "upper" callings are administrative and don't really have an impact on people's lives. 

Mission presidents certainly have a big impact on their missionaries and often the countries they serve in (much less so in the Mormon Corridor), but you usually need to be wealthy and connected to the "Mormon royalty" network for consideration. It's just how it is. 

Reminds me of what Elder Malcom S. Jeppsen of the Seventy said in 1990

"A year ago when I was called as a Seventy, a nonmember patient of mine asked me an interesting question. She wanted to know if a Seventy was higher or lower in the Mormon church than a bishop. When I asked her why she would ask such a question, she replied that she was interested to know just what I’d be doing. She said she understood that in the Mormon church, every calling from a bishop on down was all work, and everyone from a bishop on up was all talk."

[Danzo]

There is a guy in our stake who served as a bishop, councilor in a stake presidency,  then a mission president, then area authority Seventy, now a temple president.

He hasn't ever been a stake president.

[Stargazer]

FWIW, a few months ago I compiled a spreadsheet detailing the past leadership experience of the current FP/Q12. Just for grins, here it is. It's possible there are omissions here. 

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Stargazer