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Why Satan had access to the Garden of Eden


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1 hour ago, Calm said:

Why is it troubling to you then?

Who wants to be the person who fully deserves to live on a world like this?

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I for one don't feel flattered by the idea that I was one of the Telestial folks, but my vanity has no claim on truth. 

This is the counterpoint.

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I agree that @The Nehor's speculation has some explanatory value and possibly could be useful in a theodicy, but I don't see it as evidenced by anything more than speculation.

Some of it seemed to come to me by revelation but it was more of a whispered: “Look over there” thing so it may be just a building block I built a false structure around but the building block is part of something that will look very different by the end.

Edited by The Nehor
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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Who wants to be the person who fully deserves to live on a world like this?

This is the counterpoint.

Some of it seemed to come to me by revelation but it was more of a whispered: “Look over there” thing so it may be just a building block I built a false structure around but the building block is part of something that will look very different by the end.

Well, we can all comfort ourselves by assuming that we volunteered to come here when we didn’t have to like Adam and Eve to help our Telestial brethren join us Celestial quality powerhouses in the CK…our motto being ‘no one left behind unless they really, really, really want to be left there’.

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Some of it seemed to come to me by revelation but it was more of a whispered: “Look over there” thing so it may be just a building block I built a false structure around but the building block is part of something that will look very different by the end.

It is an interesting idea, but there is nothing grabbing me and whispering ‘pay attention, here’s some truth’ like some other stuff you have said in the past and other posters that clicked in my brain.

Edited by Calm
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15 minutes ago, Calm said:

Well, we can all comfort ourselves by assuming that we volunteered to come here when we didn’t have to like Adam and Eve to help our Telestial brethren join us Celestial quality powerhouses in the CK…our motto being ‘no one left behind unless they really, really, really want to be left there’.

It is an interesting idea, but there is nothing grabbing me and whispering ‘pay attention, here’s some truth’ like some other stuff you have said in the past and other posters that clicked in my brain.

That first paragraph might be true but leads down a very dangerous doctrinal path. I don’t mean dangerous as in false. I mean it could lead to excessive pride and hubris. If it is true that would be another reason for God to conceal it for a time.

Yeah, parts of it ring “keep looking” but I could be way off. I am not going to start a heretical cult over it.

 

……….yet 😈

Edited by The Nehor
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40 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

That first paragraph might be true but leads down a very dangerous doctrinal path. I don’t mean dangerous as in false. I mean it could lead to excessive pride and hubris. If it is true that would be another reason for God to conceal it for a time.

Yeah, parts of it ring “keep looking” but I could be way off. I am not going to start a heretical cult over it.

 

……….yet 😈

I should have put in a ;) because I agree that could lead into inappropriate pride…false or true.

Edited by Calm
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52 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

That first paragraph might be true but leads down a very dangerous doctrinal path. I don’t mean dangerous as in false. I mean it could lead to excessive pride and hubris. If it is true that would be another reason for God to conceal it for a time.

Yeah, parts of it ring “keep looking” but I could be way off. I am not going to start a heretical cult over it.

 

……….yet 😈

Back to Nibley:

>Nothing could be more gratifying to the ego or consoling to the afflicted spirit of mortals than the secret intimation of a glorious past and an exalted parentage.

 

The idea is a good explanation for theodicy and is also fodder for narcissists and nutters.

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29 minutes ago, Obehave said:

I think the penalty for denying the Holy Ghost only counts while someone is denying him, so if someone denies him but later stops denying him then that person is no longer treated as if he or she is denying the Holy Ghost.

I agree with this.  I think denying the Holy Ghost is something that happens in the present tense.  To use Joseph Smith's example, it is like saying the sun does not shine while you see it.  I think that once a person stops deliberately choosing darkness over light like that, they can repent just like anyone else. 

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5 hours ago, Obehave said:

So if I'm understanding you correctly now, and I'm not sure if I am, the "Telestial types" (not sure who came up with that term) are those who fell with Satan but supposedly somehow repented at which point God allowed them to be born here, like us.

And you're thinking maybe some of us here now may be some of those people, spirits who fell with Satan?

I've been wondering about that lately, too,  I do believe God is gracious enough to allow that if some of those people somehow managed to find a way to repent. 

I think the penalty for denying the Holy Ghost only counts while someone is denying him, so if someone denies him but later stops denying him then that person is no longer treated as if he or she is denying the Holy Ghost.

I don't see why any of those people would feel prideful in their current situation, though.  They'd be like people who flunked elementary school and then managed to talk the Principal of the school to let them back in at a remedial level.

You missed what I was responding to. The idea that some volunteers may have chosen a path like Christ’s (though to a much lesser extent) to risk all to help rescue others.

A potentially toxic doctrine if you decide you are one of them.

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23 hours ago, pogi said:

There are more of us who believe this than I thought!

It isn't the "orthodox" opinion, I admit. But to me it is the only real one that makes sense. Were our Heavenly Parents to enact a plan on countless worlds that required at least one of their children to rebel each time and damn themselves for all eternity ... well, that goes beyond simply not making sense to being something worse than nonsensical. Add that our scripture explicitly states that our world is on the fringes of "normal" (see Moses 7:36) there is no good reason to suppose that our particular instance of the Plan went down the way that most other worlds did.

Edited by Nofear
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We believe that pre-mortal lives are a factor in our mortal lives, but there is no way know how one's station in life was determined by what you did in a pre-mortal life. Maybe you were good, but were born blind, not to punish you, but something you agreed to that was for the glory of God, maybe you were born to be the Pharaoh by God, set up to oppose Moses, for the glory of God. 'Oppositional Agents of God', perhaps Richard Dawkins is really an agent of God, whose roll is to be an opposition for us. That is the reason there is only one true judge of anyone's life. Perhaps even Satan chose to be an agent of opposition, however unlikely. There is plenty of Jewish thinking that even Satan's role is not evil but to serve as a Prosecutor at the judgment.

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20 hours ago, Lemuel said:

Adam and Eve's children, innocent beings, young spirits, are more or less lured into a van with "Free Candy" painted on the side and are held hostage here by the devils

So how did Satan have access to the garden?

Because the plot of the allegory demands it!

But I like YOUR allegory just as much, how do we get it canonized? ;)

Then we can argue about the horsepower of the van, and if it could carry enough candy to tempt all the spirits, and what flavors worked better and why.....🥵 :)

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23 hours ago, pogi said:

Tree of knowledge of good and evil?

This is a great question and I wish that I had a clear answer for you.  Unfortunately there is nothing in canonical scripture that directly identifies what / who it represents.  Since the answer that I have come to involves inferences and a + b = c kind of thought process,  it’s probably not of value to anyone else.

What do you think about the “fruit” of that tree?

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1 hour ago, Obehave said:

What do you mean by "chosen to risk all"?  Their life?  All worldly possessions?  All material possessions they had in the Celestial spirit world before they came here, too?

Do prophets of God count as people who choose a path like Christ's (though to a much lesser extent), in your opinion?  Anyone other than Christ who may have also said something like "Here am I, send me!" ???

Potentially, I suppose, if one who decides he or she is one of them is really and truly not one of them.  Otherwise I would that everyone would do whatever they could do to become a prophet of God.

Risk their earned trip to a Terrestrial world and swap it for a harder experience.

I have no idea if prophets are included. I have no idea if anyone fits this description.

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2 hours ago, Durangout said:

This is a great question and I wish that I had a clear answer for you.  Unfortunately there is nothing in canonical scripture that directly identifies what / who it represents.  Since the answer that I have come to involves inferences and a + b = c kind of thought process,  it’s probably not of value to anyone else.

What do you think about the “fruit” of that tree?

I have explained this in the other thread, but for your convenience I'll do a quick review - I believe the two trees which were planted in the "center" of the garden, which were deemed "very good" by God, represent the two beings who walked with Adam and Eve and are the "center" of all things - namely God the Father (the tree of life aka the love of God)and His Son (tree of knowledge of good and evil).  As I have explained in the other thread, I don't believe the fruit was forbidden because it was bad - quite the contrary, it was deemed "very good" by God and "delicious to the taste and very desirable" by Eve - but it also had within it potential to know the "bitter".  It was forbidden because it was sacred and carried with it great power for both good and evil, and also included the power of creation, and they were not fully prepared.  God promised Adam and Eve that he would return and give further instruction.  I believe that further instruction would have been preparatory to partaking of the fruit. 

I actually do believe there is pretty convincing canonical scriptural evidence that identifies the symbolism of the tree and fruit:

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Moroni 7:

16 For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore,

18 And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.

19 Wherefore, I beseech of you, brethren, that ye should search diligently in the light of Christ that ye may know good from evil; and if ye will lay hold upon every good thing, and condemn it not, ye certainly will be a child of Christ.

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“He hath given unto you that ye might know good from evil, and he hath given unto you that ye might choose life or death” (Hel. 14:30–31).


In Alma 12:31  it states that they became as the gods "knowing good from evil".    

There is also these:

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By the power of the Spirit our eyes are opened and our understanding quickened - D&C 76:12 and D&C 138:29 (clear reference to Eden)

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And the light which shineth…is through him who enlighteneth your eyes and quickened your understanding D&C 88:11

I think the scriptures make it pretty clear that it is the "Spirit of Christ" aka "light of Christ" that causes us to become like the gods knowing "good from evil".  There is no other symbolism that aligns so perfectly that I can think of.    

With that symbolism in place, the rest of the story starts to make perfect sense.  It never made sense to me why the devil would temp them to partake of the fruit when he knew it was necessary for exaltation.  Now it makes sense. He knew that they were being prepared for it and would receive it eventually by Christ, so he attempted to take the place of Christ and confuse good for evil.  Which he did.  It erases the conundrum of contradiction in conflicting commandments and makes true the verse which states that "the Lord giveth no commandment unto the children of men unless he shall prepare a way for them to fulfill..."  

No more conundrums.  No more forced fall. No more contradictions.  It all makes perfect sense when the symbol is understood. When you understand that the tree of knowledge of good and evil was the way (we know that there was "no other way" to exaltation but through that tree), the truth (knowledge of good and evil) and the life (ability to procreate), I think the symbolism becomes undeniable.  

What other symbolism could possibly check so many boxes? 

 

Edited by pogi
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43 minutes ago, pogi said:

It was forbidden because it was sacred and carried with it great power for both good and evil, and also included the power of creation, and they were not fully prepared.

They walked into the temple and went through an endowment without a temple prep class, recommend interview, and recommend, so to speak.

(not sure I agree, but a very reasonable and coherent position)

Edited by Calm
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Pogi and anyone else who holds this position, why do you see the church leadership/prophets/temple ceremony more or less showing Eve did just fine choosing to partake when she did?

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25 minutes ago, Obehave said:

I think I also hold the position pogi holds on this issue and I'm really not sure why those others hold the position they do.  God forbid Adam and Eve to eat from that tree.  Why would anyone think it was good to do what God forbid them to do?

It was good because of the context of the forbidding:

I found Abraham 3:19 helpful in showing that none but Christ had the wherewithal (intelligence and keys) to keep the command to multiply and replenish the earth while already possessing the knowledge of good and evil. My working model involves three parts of the hosts of heaven: the followers of Lucifer (the “third part” from scripture), the followers of Christ (the “second part” – my extrapolation), and Christ with His Father and the other gods with whom They dwell (the “first part” – also my extrapolation). Having the keys, He controlled access to the ability to multiply and to know good and evil.

Multiplying and replenishing the earth requires knowledge of good and evil because in its most basic form, the light of Christ in the form of instinct prompts human beings in this world to procreate. In its highest form, the perfect knowledge of God enables exalted beings the continuation of the seeds forever. But perfect knowledge cannot arise, except developmentally, from instinct. Adam and Eve came into Eden with neither. After they partook of the forbidden fruit, first gaining instinct and later moral sense, the Lord gave them the way to live in righteousness so as to eventually multiply and replenish worlds without end.

Adam and Eve lacked this instinct to multiply and replenish the earth until they partook of the forbidden fruit. Until then, they acted in a morally neutral way, just following instructions, having nothing else with which to compare their options. Adam’s reticence to not partake of the forbidden fruit was not a moral decision, but based on remembering his orders; Eve’s inclination to partake was not immoral, but based on inexperience tracking her orders (hence the need for writing, which is why they started using the book of remembrance). So the actual act of partaking, in and of itself, was neither good nor evil, and only in retrospect it was good for the following reason:

God waited for them to partake on their own, contrary to His prohibition, to demonstrate to them, by and through the contrasting experiences between Eden, the fall and telestial life, their spiritual and physical limitations and their need to rely upon the Him to maximize the gift of procreation through eternal increase. They could do nothing but eventually fail this prohibition -- which was not a moral law. This was known by all in the first estate as spirits, but had to be realized anew in the second estate with a body. On our own, the “second part” could never multiply and replenish the earth beyond an instinctive and mortal level. With Christ, we progress from these most base but fundamental and essential levels or building blocks. Given the limited capacity of the "second part", there is no other way for us to begin or end, and Christ is central to the "good" in both.

The forbidden fruit of the tree of knowledge catalyzed their instinctive ability to multiply and replenish the earth, just as physically consumed substances can induce our mental states, one of which is the reproductive instinct. Thus, this knowledge of good and evil, which si good, developing from instinct, which is also good, could come by no other way.

P.S. this can be taken either figuratively or literally!

Edited by CV75
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49 minutes ago, Obehave said:

I think I also hold the position pogi holds on this issue and I'm really not sure why those others hold the position they do.  God forbid Adam and Eve to eat from that tree.  Why would anyone think it was good to do what God forbid them to do?

 

I’m guessing you may have never read Moses 5? In this chapter Jesus Christ, Adam and Eve all testify that it was indeed a good thing.

9 And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am the Only Begotten of the Father from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will.
10 And in that day Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.
11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was GLAD, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.

 

Edited by teddyaware
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8 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

So how did Satan have access to the garden?

Because the plot of the allegory demands it!

But I like YOUR allegory just as much, how do we get it canonized? ;)

Then we can argue about the horsepower of the van, and if it could carry enough candy to tempt all the spirits, and what flavors worked better and why.....🥵 :)

 

Submit to the body for a vote.

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15 hours ago, teddyaware said:

I’m guessing you may have never read Moses 5? In this chapter Jesus Christ, Adam and Eve all testify that it was indeed a good thing.

9 And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am the Only Begotten of the Father from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will.
10 And in that day Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.
11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was GLAD, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.

 

So therefore the Devil was right in getting them to eat the fruit? He is basically who we're listening to throughout the movie, you know the movie I'm talking about. This was always strange to me, that's why I don't believe it physically happened.

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18 hours ago, Calm said:

Pogi and anyone else who holds this position, why do you see the church leadership/prophets/temple ceremony more or less showing Eve did just fine choosing to partake when she did?

I think it largely comes from an interpretation of the passages which teddy shared:

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9 And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am the Only Begotten of the Father from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will.
10 And in that day Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.
11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was GLAD, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.

It is easy and understandable too see why Eve is regarded for putting in motion the plan of salvation, based on these passages.  I don't necessarily see any untruth in these passages either, and I think they work with my interpretation with contextual understanding.   

Vs 9 - Christ testifies that they can be redeemed from the fall, and all mankind can be redeemed from transgression and sin and the effects of the fall.  Note, he doesn't say that they made the best choice.  

With the next 2 verses it is important to note that for Adam and Eve, the fruit was associated with, and I think that it became synonymous with, "my transgression".  That certainly was the case in that partaking of the fruit was their transgression.  Because of their transgression (partaking of the fruit), their eyes were opened, etc. as these passages note.  None of that is false.  What they may not have known at the time is that a way would have been provided as Nephi testified.  If you replace the word "transgression" in these passages with the words "partaking of the fruit", you will see how it works with my interpretation.   The only way forward was through the partaking of the fruit (this is true), which for them was associated with and synonymous with "my transgression", which is why they used that language here.   

I don't think the temple or the scriptures let Eve, or Adam, off scotch free, however.  There is no way around the fact that she violated God's law and that she was "deceived" and "beguiled" by Lucifer, and the Lord punished them for it, but with the punishment providing a way for redemption from their transgression.

In as much as Eve partook of the fruit first, the Lord says in scripture and temple:

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"I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception. In sorrow thou shalt bring forth children, and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. (Moses 4 and Gensis 3)"

There is also:

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But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. - 2 Corinth 11:3

I think this verse is pretty poignant in that it suggests that she was beguiled by the serpent "from the simplicity that is in Christ".  In other words, he used what was good, and pure, and simple, and true in Christ (the fruit) to tempt them and manipulate them.

And:

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"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."
1 Timothy 2:11-14, KJV

While I think there is some unfortunate cultural mysogeny incorporated into this last verse, I think it shows that the early prophets viewed her transgression as a mistake. 

With the current popular interpretation there is not only the conundrum of conflicting commandments, there is the conundrum of suggesting that Eve's transgression was both right and wrong, both sound and a mistake, both condoned by God and not condoned by God, that she was equally deceived/beguiled in her choice and wise/perceptive in her choice, being both pushed and pulled by God.  Such is not possible in my mind. 

Edited by pogi
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1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

So therefore the Devil was right in getting them to eat the fruit? He is basically who we're listening to throughout the movie, you know the movie I'm talking about. This was always strange to me, that's why I don't believe it physically happened.

The devil’s motivation to persuade Eve, and then Adam, to partake of the forbidden fruit was so that he could get the opportunity, within the divinely ordained system of human agency, to drag as many of the sons and daughters of God down into the misery of hell with him, and this as an act of hateful revenge against the God whom he hates. The Lord’s motivation to allow the fall to occur was so that his children could be tested in an existence that’s predicated on the eternal principle of opposition in all things, for by this means the Lord could best help his children to dynamically advance in their spiritual progress, and then finally save them eternally in one of his three heavenly mansions of glory.

Whether you or anyone else likes it or not, existence can only be affirmed on the eternal principle of there being diametric opposition in all things. And the only way to have a meaningful existence is to be engaged in the eternal battle between the forces of good and the forces of evil. If our first parents hadn’t fallen, their existence would have been meaningless, purposeless and devoid of abundant knowledge, wisdom and joy.

Those who spend their lives refusing to engage valiantly in the eternal war against the very real forces of evil, chaos and destruction (due to the fact they recoil at the thought that “there must needs be opposition in all things”) will eventually be relegated to either the terrestrial or telestial kingdoms of glory, after the resurrection and final judgement.  But we’re told that both of these heavenly realms are so wonderful and glorious that they are beyond present human comprehension, which means God is a very merciful and compassionate Being. But wishing that there didn’t have to be an eternal war of good against evil will not make it so; and wishing existence didn’t have to be affirmed on the unchanging principle opposition in all things will also not make it so. But remember, if there were no opposition in all things nothing could exist, not even God.

It’s important to realize that, with great joy, we all voluntarily desired to enter and engage with this fallen world because we knew the great glory that would follow after a brief period of trial, suffering and tribulation. If some have now soured on the idea, that’s OK, but they just need to understand that they will be relegated to a lower kingdom of glory where their freedom will be restricted.

What it all boils down to is this: who is and who isn’t willing to accept and effectively deal with reality. Satan and the one-third host who were cast out of heaven not only couldn’t accept reality but from the beginning have made all out war against “things as they really are.” 

I must say I sympathize with you because it’s a hopeless cause that you will ever receive satisfactory and soul comforting answers to your many doubts and questions until you receive those answers from the Holy Ghost — there is no other way.

Edited by teddyaware
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2 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

The devil’s motivation to persuade Eve, and then Adam, to partake of the forbidden fruit was so that he could get the opportunity, within the divinely ordained system of human agency, to drag as many of the sons and daughters of God down into the misery of hell with him, and this as an act of hateful revenge against the God whom he hates. The Lord’s motivation to allow the fall to occur was so that his children could be tested in an existence that’s predicated on the eternal principle of opposition in all things, for by this means the Lord could best help his children to dynamically advance in their spiritual progress, and then finally save them eternally in one of his three heavenly mansions of glory.

Whether you or anyone else likes it or not, existence can only be affirmed on the eternal principle of there being diametric opposition in all things. And the only way to have a meaningful existence is to be engaged in the eternal battle between the forces of good and the forces of evil. If our first parents hadn’t fallen, their existence would have been meaningless, purposeless and devoid of abundant knowledge, wisdom and joy.

Those who spend their lives refusing to engage valiantly in the eternal war against the very real forces of evil, chaos and destruction (due to the fact they recoil at the thought that “there must needs be opposition in all things”) will eventually be relegated to either the terrestrial or telestial kingdoms of glory, after the resurrection and final judgement.  But we’re told that both of these heavenly realms are so wonderful and glorious that they are beyond present human comprehension, which means God is a very merciful and compassionate Being. But wishing that there didn’t have to be  an eternal war of good against evil will not make it so; and wishing existence didn’t have to be affirmed on the unchanging principle opposition in all things will also not make it so. But remember, if there were no opposition in all things nothing could exist, not even God.

It’s important to realize that, with great joy, we all voluntarily desired to enter and engage with this fallen world because we knew the great glory that would follow after a brief period of trial, suffering and tribulation. If some have now soured on the idea, that’s OK, but they just need to understand that they will be relegated to a lower kingdom of glory where their freedom will be restricted.

What it all boils down to is this: who is and who isn’t willing to accept and effectively deal with reality. Satan and the one-third host who were cast out of heaven not only couldn’t accept reality but from the beginning have made all out war against “things as they really are.” 

I must say I sympathize with you because it’s a hopeless cause that you will ever receive satisfactory and soul comforting answers to your many doubts and questions until you receive those answers from the Holy Ghost — there is no other way.

Satan knew the plan.  He was there in the pre-existence when it was outlined.  He had witnessed it unfold on other earths.  Why would he push it forward?  Why not persuade her to follow God and not to eat it and thus destroy the plan?  Having witnessed what had happened on other earths, with giving of the fruit to other Adam and Eve's, you would think that Lucifer would have anticipated the cursing which would follow, why do you think he was so shocked and surprised at the curse that would follow for giving them the fruit?  "if thous curse me for doing the same thing which has been done on other worlds..."  Strange indeed!

 

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3 minutes ago, Metis_LDS said:

She was already doing that.

And if she had continued, the plan would have been destroyed.

I think Lucifer knew that they would eventually get the fruit by God - as done in other worlds.  The plan wouldn’t be destroyed by obeying God (that’s a conundrum).  I give Lucifer more intellectual credit than that.

Edited by pogi
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4 minutes ago, pogi said:

Having witnessed what had happened on other earths, with giving of the fruit to other Adam and Eve's, you would think that Lucifer would have anticipated the cursing which would follow, why do you think he was so shocked and surprised at the curse that would follow for giving them the fruit?  "if thous curse me for doing the same thing which has been done on other worlds..."  Strange indeed!

Because prthaps what was done on other worlds did not include a Satan figure.  So Satan's offence was to take the place of and authority of another.

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