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Why Satan had access to the Garden of Eden


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Please be sure that I do NOT have the complete answer to this question.

I believe that it was not a mishap or accident that Satan got into the Garden.

I believe that God knowing Satan was vain made it difficult but not impossible to access the Garden of Eden.

I feel strongly that the cursing of Satan in the Garden is what explains why he was let in.

I know persons on this board that are more clever and better writers than myself and I hope for their

help in understanding why God let Satan into the Garden.

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2 Nephi 2:11 For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my firstborn in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.

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16 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

2 Nephi 2:11 For it must needs be, that there is an opposition in all things. If not so, my firstborn in the wilderness, righteousness could not be brought to pass, neither wickedness, neither holiness nor misery, neither good nor bad. Wherefore, all things must needs be a compound in one; wherefore, if it should be one body it must needs remain as dead, having no life neither death, nor corruption nor incorruption, happiness nor misery, neither sense nor insensibility.

So you are saying that Satan was let in to create opposition in the Garden of Eden?

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10 minutes ago, Metis_LDS said:

So you are saying that Satan was let in to create opposition in the Garden of Eden?

How would God's plan have worked without a fall?  Without transgression?

It wouldn't.

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3 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

How would God's plan have worked without a fall?  Without transgression?

It wouldn't.

I agree, I just wanted to know why you quoted that scripture, thanks.

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Posted (edited)

Was this a test for Satan to see what he would really do,  we talk but actions speak louder.

So giving Satan freedom in the Garden was perhaps meant to show his true hostility.  Interesting that as beings created together we are tied together until a greater division than the rebellion in Heaven.

Edited by Metis_LDS
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Just now, OGHoosier said:

Frankly these days I look on the whole story of the Fall as ceremonial script. After all, in practical terms, the Fall is something we all did. Adam and Eve ("man" and "woman") stand in the place of all of us in the temple ceremony, and I believe this points to a literal truth; we all Fell. We all chose to leave the paradisaical abode of God to come here. The temple clearly implies that this decision was made consciously by Adam and Eve, just as it was made consciously by us in the Council in Heaven. We all Fell, we are all Adam and Eve, and if Satan had access to us during the Grand Council then he would have to have access to our type-avatars (Adam and Eve) in Eden.

This…

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Opposition in all things merely entails the possibility that an alternative exist, not that there must be an active agent providing opposition.

Lucifer opposed the Plan of Happiness in the Grand Council of Heaven and in his rejection he got a bunch of others to follow him. But it was a choice that we all had and there was no particular punishment associated with the exercise of that choice (just a loss of blessings by the refusal to take the opportunity). As such, Lucifer still had the autonomy to go where he would go.

It was always part of the Plan that Adam and Eve would choose to leave the Garden, but the plan was for them to be properly prepared first. With his autonomy, Lucifer chose to go to the Garden of Eden and seek to actively disrupt the Plan of Happiness by getting Adam and Eve to partake of the fruit before they had been properly instructed and prepared and thus hoped to derail the Plan by messing up the timeline and getting things off to a bad start. What Lucifer did was a deliberate act of sabotage* and consequently part of his punishment was that his travel privileges were revoked and he was confined to this earth ("eat dust all the days of your life") lest he attempt his shenanigans on later worlds.

 

* God knew it was going to happen, but he doesn't punish us for things we haven't done yet even if he knows we will do them.

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52 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

How would God's plan have worked without a fall?  Without transgression?

It wouldn't.

They transgressed because they partook prematurely when it was forbidden. Adam and Eve could have chosen to leave the Garden at some future time when God did not forbid it because they had been taught, prepared, and were ready to Fall.

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45 minutes ago, Metis_LDS said:

Was this a test for Satan to see what he would really do,  we talk but actions speak louder.

So giving Satan freedom in the Garden was perhaps meant to show his true hostility.  Interesting that as beings created together we are tied together until a greater division than the rebellion in Heaven.

I suppose Satan could still rationalize in his own mind and argue with others he got booted from heaven because he wanted something better for mankind, his only motivation was love.  Between his acts in the garden and his acts with Cain, there is no question he had become a being who reveled in the misery of others and could no longer hide who he was to himself or others, the opposition party to God, desiring to bring eternal death/separation from God rather than eternal life.  
 

PS:  While I believe this is a ceremonial, temple script for teaching covenants—covenants that the first Adam and Eve first made, I see no reason not to treat it as literal in exploring its nuances in order to learn lessons from it…which I believe is one of the main reasons we have ceremonial stories, they bring the cosmic to a more concrete relatable level.

Edited by Calm
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8 minutes ago, Nofear said:

Opposition in all things merely entails the possibility that an alternative exist, not that there must be an active agent providing opposition.

Lucifer opposed the Plan of Happiness in the Grand Council of Heaven and in his rejection he got a bunch of others to follow him. But it was a choice that we all had and there was no particular punishment associated with the exercise of that choice (just a loss of blessings by the refusal to take the opportunity). As such, Lucifer still had the autonomy to go where he would go.

It was always part of the Plan that Adam and Eve would choose to leave the Garden, but the plan was for them to be properly prepared first. With his autonomy, Lucifer chose to go to the Garden of Eden and seek to actively disrupt the Plan of Happiness by getting Adam and Eve to partake of the fruit before they had been properly instructed and prepared and thus hoped to derail the Plan by messing up the timeline and getting things off to a bad start. What Lucifer did was a deliberate act of sabotage* and consequently part of his punishment was that his travel privileges were revoked and he was confined to this earth ("eat dust all the days of your life") lest he attempt his shenanigans on later worlds.

 

* God knew it was going to happen, but he doesn't punish us for things we haven't done yet even if he knows we will do them.

Out of points though I mean to add later, but must say now, very well put.

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1 hour ago, Metis_LDS said:

Please be sure that I do NOT have the complete answer to this question.

I believe that it was not a mishap or accident that Satan got into the Garden.

I believe that God knowing Satan was vain made it difficult but not impossible to access the Garden of Eden.

I feel strongly that the cursing of Satan in the Garden is what explains why he was let in.

I know persons on this board that are more clever and better writers than myself and I hope for their

help in understanding why God let Satan into the Garden.

Maybe Adam and Eve invited him in. I understand some versions use a serpent, and others use Lucifer the person to represent the principle of opposition in all things (in the first instance) and to describe an actual adversarial being (in the second instance). Perhaps the "serpent" is the less-developed mind of Adam and Eve, which led to an experiment to invite others into the garden in an ill-advised trial of replenishing the earth. Perhaps they lapsed in their stewardship of the serpent (animal or mind) which created this opportunity.

It seems that Satan was cast out of Heaven, and bound in millennial mortalities, but not bound in Eden because the Lord's Atonement had not yet been effectuated in the flesh. He is not bound in telestial mortalities except in the lives of those who have been completely cleansed through the Lord's Atonement.

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The complete creation myth is the Fall of Satan out of heaven landed the demons into the sea of the un-created earth which at that time was a world of water. Sea monsters and serpents formed in the water were possessed of these wicked spirits. The serpent of the garden was originally from the sea, and traveled into the garden. Now the Garden was only meant to have a few select forms of nature in the garden; for example thorns existed, but not in the garden. So, the serpent probably doesn't originally belong there. The gardeners assigned to guard the garden where probably suppose to have kept him out.

You can see this, sort of, in the Temple of Solomon imagery. The courtyard is the Brazen Sea, everything in it was made of Brass, the Temple is the first mountain that emerged from the water, and the Holy Place is the Sacred Garden at the summit. Everything in the Garden is Gold except one thing, the Brazen Serpent. Telling us he clearly belongs in the sea and doesn't belong in the Garden, yet there he is.

My other idea is that Genesis is an apocalypse and the apocalyptic code is that humans are priestly figures, while animals are human non-priests. That the Serpent is either a non-priest trespassing in the garden, or he is a lesser priest with a wicked streak, possibly a demon in him, and not the new caste of priest that Adam and Eve were "made" into.

There are many Jews that think the snake is trespassing and Adam and Eve shouldn't have even allowed him to enter.

There have been many LDS and Christian thoughts that believe the Fall... or specifically the obtainment of the knowledge of good and evil was clearly necessary, but it could have come about in alternate ways, ideally by waiting for the guided hand and instruction of God. They jump-started a process they would have eventually been instructed to do.

Edited by Pyreaux
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6 hours ago, Metis_LDS said:

Please be sure that I do NOT have the complete answer to this question.

I believe that it was not a mishap or accident that Satan got into the Garden.

I believe that God knowing Satan was vain made it difficult but not impossible to access the Garden of Eden.

I feel strongly that the cursing of Satan in the Garden is what explains why he was let in.

I know persons on this board that are more clever and better writers than myself and I hope for their

help in understanding why God let Satan into the Garden.

It may be helpful to understand that God‘s intention for us is not for us to remain innocent, but rather to k ow good and evil and to choose the former.

It is, in fact, good for us to learn about and even experience evil so that we can learn to hate it.

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5 hours ago, OGHoosier said:

Frankly these days I look on the whole story of the Fall as ceremonial script. After all, in practical terms, the Fall is something we all did. Adam and Eve ("man" and "woman") stand in the place of all of us in the temple ceremony, and I believe this points to a literal truth; we all Fell. We all chose to leave the paradisaical abode of God to come here. The temple clearly implies that this decision was made consciously by Adam and Eve, just as it was made consciously by us in the Council in Heaven. We all Fell, we are all Adam and Eve, and if Satan had access to us during the Grand Council then he would have to have access to our type-avatars (Adam and Eve) in Eden.

Minus the LDS specific stuff, this is how I look at it, too. St. Augustine was a fan of reading the creation story allegorically, and as someone drawn to mysticism, it's what I like to do, too. The creation and fall is about my relationship with God: I fall and I need redemption. I left the paradise of union with God, but Christ offers the way back.

"O fortunate fall that earned for us so great a Redeemer."

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1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

Minus the LDS specific stuff, this is how I look at it, too. St. Augustine was a fan of reading the creation story allegorically, and as someone drawn to mysticism, it's what I like to do, too. The creation and fall is about my relationship with God: I fall and I need redemption. I left the paradise of union with God, but Christ offers the way back.

"O fortunate fall that earned for us so great a Redeemer."

It sounds like you have the basics of the temple ritual down pat.  

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7 hours ago, OGHoosier said:

Frankly these days I look on the whole story of the Fall as ceremonial script. After all, in practical terms, the Fall is something we all did. Adam and Eve ("man" and "woman") stand in the place of all of us in the temple ceremony, and I believe this points to a literal truth; we all Fell. We all chose to leave the paradisaical abode of God to come here. The temple clearly implies that this decision was made consciously by Adam and Eve, just as it was made consciously by us in the Council in Heaven. We all Fell, we are all Adam and Eve, and if Satan had access to us during the Grand Council then he would have to have access to our type-avatars (Adam and Eve) in Eden.

So glad to see that more and more people look deeper into the message  and “get it”…ever notice the similarity / parallel to the Book of Job?  How he starts in an idyllic state? How Satan is allowed to tempt him?  How trials and temptations beset him in a fallen existence?  How he lives up to covenants and is faithful? How he is promised special blessings? After which he is blessed immeasurably?

(wink, wink)

Edited by Durangout
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3 hours ago, Durangout said:

So glad to see that more and more people look deeper into the message  and “get it”…ever notice the similarity / parallel to the Book of Job?  How he starts in an idyllic state? How Satan is allowed to tempt him?  How trials and temptations beset him in a fallen existence?  How he lives up to covenants and is faithful? How he is promised special blessings? After which he is blessed immeasurably?

(wink, wink)

I adore the Book of Job, its sheer poetic beauty is nonpareil and it confronts some of the hardest issues we face. 

Are you familiar with Mack Stirling's chapter on Job as a temple text?

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4 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Minus the LDS specific stuff, this is how I look at it, too. St. Augustine was a fan of reading the creation story allegorically, and as someone drawn to mysticism, it's what I like to do, too. The creation and fall is about my relationship with God: I fall and I need redemption. I left the paradise of union with God, but Christ offers the way back.

"O fortunate fall that earned for us so great a Redeemer."

I find Christian mysticism entrancing. It is by far my favorite aspect of Christian history. 

The great Catholic mystics find a soft spot in my heart but I'm also very drawn to Orthodoxy's mystic tradition. Particularly that of Russian Orthodoxy, though I fear that the whole Ukraine War had done incredible damage to that religious tradition. 

Edited by OGHoosier
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17 minutes ago, OGHoosier said:

I adore the Book of Job, its sheer poetic beauty is nonpareil and it confronts some of the hardest issues we face. 

Are you familiar with Mack Stirling's chapter on Job as a temple text?

Sweet. I've been doing a few things along these lines. That most of the Biblical Authors are Temple priests and they've laced Temple imagery whenever they can. I've done this with Jonah and The Prodigal Son, with their themes of dramatized death and resurrection.

With Job I've noticed by reading the Greek Septuagint Version of the Book of Job, the Testament of Job, and Aristeas the Exegete's excerpt of the Life of Job, and going back to the Bible, that Job is a King Priest.

Job is a King

In the Testament of Joe, Job's three friends refer to Job as the "king of all Egypt" (Test. Job 28:7). However the Vatican Greek version portrays them referring to Job as the "king of all this territory" (V, Test. Job 28:7). The city of Uz in probably not in Egypt, but Edom. "Uz [uts (H#5780) consultation]" who was a Seirite son of Aram who settled that region in Edom (Gen 36:28; Job 1:1; LXX, Job 42:13e [A]; Jer 25:20; Lan 4:21). The Testament of Job says Job is one of the sons of Esau (Test. Job 1:6), and aligns with the Septuagint which says Job is a descendant of Abraham (LXX, Job 42:17c).

If Job's kingship claim were in doubt, the Book of Job mentions Job's wealth (Job 1:3), that he had a "crown" and "[robe of] glory" (Job 19:9; 31:36), and was a "king amid armies" (Job 29:25). Testament of Job is an explicit tale of a king that looses everything.

Job is a Priest

Like the Patriarchs, he intercedes in offering sacrifices for his family (Job 1:5; Test. Job 15:4). The Testament of Job says he owned incense censors, gold lamps and frankincense (Test. 32:8-10) which are prerogatives held by priests (2 Chr 26:16-21). Job stood in an "assembly" (Job 30:28; Test. Job 32:8). The Apostolic Constitutions contains 16 Jewish synagogal prayers, one which says the Lord foreordains who will be royal priests before for they were born. The Lord "marked out before hand, from the beginning, priests for dominion over your people: Abel first, Seth and Enos, and Enoch and Noah and Melchizedek and Job; the one who showed forth Abraham, and the other Patriarchs" (Hellenistic Synagogal Prayers 9:11).

The Book of Job says Job was "perfect [(H#8535), complete]". Job intercedes to atone for his three friends (Job 42:8; Test. Job 42:6-43:3) and with "Holy men" they rejoice (Test. Job 43:15).

Job has a Priest's Wisdom

Job is portrayed as a Wise Man, he knew priestly wisdom to collect and craft precious stones (LXX, Job 31:24; Test. Job 28:4-5; 32:5). He knows that it was angelic forces, Satan and Sons of God that took his crown from his head (Job 1:6), that it was the "fires of [the elohim (angels)]" fell from heaven that destroyed his flocks (Job 1:16).

His "three friends" are Wise Men (Job 17:10), that also knew priestly knowledge. They knew that God makes men from clay (Job 10:9), that the sea and Rahab is the Lord's enemy (Job 7:12; 9:3) that some can raise the Leviathan (Job 41:1), that the Council of Heaven has rebel members (Job 15:15). The Septuagint and the Testament of Job also says the friends were kings (LXX, Job 2:11), who came looking for their "fellow king" (Test. Job 29:3). They assail Job, wanting him to admit that he is suffering because of sin, and that he is not quite the Wise Man he thinks he is.

Royal Priest's Name Change

There is "Jobab [(H#3103), howler]" a form of "Job [(H#3102) bawler, cryer]", who was the son of Esau, the second king of Edom (Gen 36:53). These other sources say that the Biblical "Jobab" is in fact the Biblical "Job [(H#346) hated (i.e. persecuted)]" of the Book of Job. The Testament of Job also mentions that Jobab's had received his new name of "Job" (Test. Job 2:1) after he had forsook idolatry and purged the idols from the Temple of the "great god" near his home in Edom (Test. Job 3:6; 4:4; 5:2; 17:4).

Royal Priest's Vesture

Testament of Job claims Job received priestly regalia that ends up healing him and extends his life (Test. Job 46:7). The Book of Job does mention when his trials were over, God asked him to "gird your loins like a man" (Job 38:3; 40:7) or in apocalyptic code, dress like an "angel" whom wear the priestly robes?

The Testament of Job opens at the deathbed of Job. When nearing death, Job gives out Patriarchal blessings, ethical council, and their inheritance, and foretells their future while their children are all gathered. Like other Patriarchs (Genesis 47:29-50:14; Tobit 14:3-11; 1 Enoch 91:1-9; Ac 20:17-38; 1 Tim 4:1-16). Job had given an inheritance is given "to his daughter too". The Book of Job does make special mention of the beauty of Job's daughters, which is a sign of the covenant (Job 42:14-15) and the daughters special inheritance, which inheriting anything alone is unusual. As daughters usually didn't get an inheritance.

Job apparently had a priestly sash (Job 38:3; 40:7). Job gave his priestly sash he had, and split it into 3 sashes of "splendor" (Test. Job 46:7) and gave them to his daughters saying they will lead them to live in heaven (Test. Job 47:3). This causes the three daughters to transfigure, their "hearts changed" (Test. Job 48:2), they no longer desired earthly things, the spoke the language of the angels. Like how King Saul's heart changed after he was coronated and prophesied in a trance (1 Sa 10:9-11). Apostle Paul also knew he "tongues... of angels" (1 Cor 13:1).

They alone witnessed Job's ascent into heaven (Test. Job 47:3). They allowed the word for "The Spirit" to be inscribed on their garments (Test. Job 48:3), they became "garments of glory". Much like Isaiah (Ascent of Isaiah 9:2-11) and Enoch (2 Enoch 22:8; 3 En 12:1) wore the garments of God. Those were thought to be inscribed. (Hekhalot Rabbati 24; 3:4).

Now what is important to me is not whether it is even true or not, but the glaring fact that by my royal studies in hand I see is a remnant of the royal ideology. The priest wore a sash or girdle (abnet [H#73]) of which there are 2 types, an elaborate one of the High Priest, decorated with "[roqem, needlework]" (Ex 39:29) and an ordinary one for priests (Ex 28:40; 29:8-9; Lev 8:13), thought to be white, same as the High Priest wore on the Day of Atonement (Josephus, Antiquties of the Jews 3:7:2; 20:9:6). A priestly sash is worn by angels (Dan 10:5; Rev 1:13; Rev 15:6) and royal officials (Isa 22:21).

Job's loyalty is comparable to Abraham's obedience, that earned him, like Abraham, a promised land and a crown for his children (Test. Job 40:3) a throne in heaven, by a river of life (Test. Job 33:3, 5, 7, 9).

 

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12 hours ago, OGHoosier said:

Frankly these days I look on the whole story of the Fall as ceremonial script. After all, in practical terms, the Fall is something we all did. Adam and Eve ("man" and "woman") stand in the place of all of us in the temple ceremony, and I believe this points to a literal truth; we all Fell. We all chose to leave the paradisaical abode of God to come here. The temple clearly implies that this decision was made consciously by Adam and Eve, just as it was made consciously by us in the Council in Heaven. We all Fell, we are all Adam and Eve, and if Satan had access to us during the Grand Council then he would have to have access to our type-avatars (Adam and Eve) in Eden.

What if we fell before we were born?

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2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

What if we fell before we were born?

I thought we used slides to get from heaven to earth…

I think I saw it in a cartoon years ago.

Edited by Calm
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14 hours ago, Metis_LDS said:

Please be sure that I do NOT have the complete answer to this question.

I believe that it was not a mishap or accident that Satan got into the Garden.

I believe that God knowing Satan was vain made it difficult but not impossible to access the Garden of Eden.

I feel strongly that the cursing of Satan in the Garden is what explains why he was let in.

I know persons on this board that are more clever and better writers than myself and I hope for their

help in understanding why God let Satan into the Garden.

Doctrine and Covenants 29 answers your question simply yet powerfully.

36 And it came to pass that Adam, being tempted of the devil—for, behold, the devil was before Adam, for he rebelled against me, saying, Give me thine honor, which is my power; and also a third part of the hosts of heaven turned he away from me because of their agency;
37 And they were thrust down, and thus came the devil and his angels;
38 And, behold, there is a place prepared for them from the beginning, which place is hell.
39 And it must needs be that the devil should tempt the children of men, or they could not be agents unto themselves; for if they never should have bitter they could not know the sweet—
40 Wherefore, it came to pass that the devil tempted Adam, and he partook of the forbidden fruit and transgressed the commandment, wherein he became subject to the will of the devil, because he yielded unto temptation.
41 Wherefore, I, the Lord God, caused that he should be cast out from the Garden of Eden, from my presence, because of his transgression, wherein he became spiritually dead, which is the first death, even that same death which is the last death, which is spiritual, which shall be pronounced upon the wicked when I shall say: Depart, ye cursed.
42 But, behold, I say unto you that I, the Lord God, gave unto Adam and unto his seed, that they should not die as to the temporal death, until I, the Lord God, should send forth angels to declare unto them repentance and redemption, through faith on the name of mine Only Begotten Son. (Doctrine and Covenants 29)

So the answer is that without Satan’s negative spiritual influence in the garden of Eden there would have been no agency, and without agency there is no salvation and no possibility of spiritual growth. 

Edited by teddyaware
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