White Nationalists (Some from Utah) Planned to Attack LGBTQ Rally in Idaho

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Durangout said:

 

You mean the FBI bullhorn that says “Abolish the FBI”?  Zoom in on it, pretty easy to read. 
 

As far as being physically fit similar to what is expected of federal agents:

”In addition to distributing propaganda, members also participate in private meet-ups, which routinely involve a physical fitness element like boxing or hiking. The group’s internet propaganda stresses physical training and includes images of members boxing, coupled with phrases like “Become war” and “Train with your friends. Fight your enemies.””

https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/patriot-front

The blue shirts, masks, and khaki pants appear to be a type of uniform for them if you look at of past events.  Maybe it was originally chosen because it was similar to what federal agents often wear. Or maybe the feds chose it because they figured the Patriot Front people would be less likely to attack them in any confusion because they assumed they were fellow members. The reason why it was chosen I can’t find.  Maybe men who go into law enforcement or anti law enforcement just don’t have that much imagination when it comes to fashion choices.
 

So unless you think the Patriot Front is completely fake, the appearance of this group is consistent with other appearances dating back at least 5 years. 
 

“During these flash demonstrations, Patriot Front members generally wear khaki pants and a blue or white polo shirt; many also wear masks. The group intensely focuses on “optics;” they have used attention-grabbing smoke bombs, signal flares and torches during their demonstrations. Members routinely chant, “Blood and Soil,” a slogan with origins in Nazi Germany that Patriot Front uses to conflate white European identity with American soil.”

Edited June 14, 2022 by Calm

[The Nehor]

12 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

So “reading assignments containing soft porn (or outright abusive language, shocking violence, etc)” as long as *you agree with the source material. So it’s not actually the violence etc, you object to, but the exposure to ideas that don’t support your world view?

These are the same people screaming about how someone dressed in drag is exposing kids to sexuality and take their kids to Hooter’s. They then argue that Hooter’s is a family restaurant because kids eat free sometimes.

In other words it was never about exposing kids to sexuality in general.

[helix]

29 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Okay, let’s look at Logan Smith, aka JP Bellum, the anti-racist who started the Deznat hashtag. Let’s look at some quotes:

Let me be clear that I have no love of DezNat.  My interactions with them have been horrid.  I can't see how any thinking human being can think their kind of mocking goes hand-in-hand with Christ.  But just because we don't like someone doesn't mean we have a green light to paint them with every bad brush in our bucket.

For example, one fellow DezNat ribbed him when he jokingly said: "I knew @JPBellum was an undercover #LGBT activist from the moment I met him."  JP Bellum jokingly replied with "Globalist agenda to make everyone gay usually overseen by the Jews".  Does that joke make him anti-semite?  You implied it does.  But most of us recognize when someone is giving a politically incorrect tongue-in-cheek reply to a joke. 

You couldn't find other comments from him being racist, so you brought up misogyny?  Huh?  That's not racism.  Misogyny is awful, but we shouldn't weaponize labels by branding others as racist when their comments aren't about race.   DezNat was not started as a group desiring to, say, keep out Mexican immigrants, or opposing Islamism, or arguing that somehow white culture is superior. 

To better judge a person, it helps to recognize when they say things like this:

Quote

President Nelson even issued a statement condemning racism, obviously, some might say, these protests are a good thing to help us recognize the shortcomings of our society. I firmly believe “all are alike unto God” (2 Ne 26:33). My family is Mexican and we’ve experienced negative treatment because some people did not think we were equals. I understand that racism still exists. But I also believe in the 2nd Article of Faith: We believe that men will be punished for their own sins and not for Adam’s transgression. 

while in the same breath (and same blog post), say things like this:

Quote

Nehor killed Gideon; Kate Kelly, the leader of Ordain Women was excommunicated, began working for Planned Parenthood, and divorced her husband. But that was not the end of Nehors. Just as we see in Alma 1, the next crop of soothsayers is careful to mask their apostasy. We are admonished to “mourn with those that mourn” on LGBT issues; to our modern-day soothsayers this means we must support same-sex marriage and the LGBT lifestyle. The Honor Code debacle at BYU earlier this year illustrates many of our young people have become convinced that standing up for the commandments is Un-Christlike and distasteful. This is the environment that Black Lives Matters came into after a few years of dormancy. And I believe, like Amlici, its ultimate goal, while political, is to destroy the Church of God.  

The laziest (and easiest) way to force labels onto an individual is to 1) readily accept anything they say at face value if it agrees with our labels of him, and 2) reject their words when it contradicts our label by calling their words pre-planned misdirection and lies.  Which is what you've done.  

Finally, the reason I'm still here is I'm fascinated by radicalism, I'm curious why people radicalize, and it's not illuminating just to claim every radical is a racist just because we don't like them.  I'm also curious if there are any active church members in this arrested Patriot group and if any overlap with DezNat, and so far I've still seen no evidence of this. 

 

[provoman]

28 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

These are the same people screaming about how someone dressed in drag is exposing kids to sexuality and take their kids to Hooter’s. They then argue that Hooter’s is a family restaurant because kids eat free sometimes.

In other words it was never about exposing kids to sexuality in general.

Is that “whataboutism”?

Edited June 14, 2022 by provoman

[strappinglad]

Just curious, but would any current or former LEOs ,if they have seen the video of the arrested guys, comment on if it is standard procedure to arrest someone and then leave on their masks and hats and sunglasses and backpacks , and then turn their backs on all of the arrestees ??? 

[bsjkki]

I watched the press conference earlier today. Sheriff White said they only knew about the Patriot Front group because of the tip by a citizen. He argued with a citizen journalist who mentioned the video of the officer on the scene who was recorded saying they had people in their chats. Sheriff White did say they were monitoring other groups. I think two were arrested from Oregon (antifa) in a separate incident. There is probably an FBI informant but they don't want to publicly say so. I found it odd the Sheriff denied being aware of the video brought up by the journalist. It was all over twitter. He also got a bit defensive and no longer wanted to take any questions from the citizen journalist.

This is a bad group and I'm not defending them. I have seen no official evidence that points to them being infiltrated by the feds or that they are feds. They are white nationalists with their uniformed look and they show up to counter protest and stir up trouble. Their presence at an event is all that is needed to cause trouble. In the past they do a lot of marching around (to get attention.) 

Edited June 15, 2022 by bsjkki

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, provoman said:

Is that “whataboutism”?

Whataboutism generally requires the example to be about someone else and something that is similar but not related. Whataboutism goes for the idea that you can’t criticize A activity from group X because group Y does B activity (with A and B either being similar or implied to be similar). It is designed to put the other side on the defensive. It is a red herring. It is how the Soviets justified atrocities by pointing out similar atrocities in “the west”. When showing the dissonant reactions to what should be similar situations unravels the argument it is not whataboutism.

In this case I am revealing what they mean by “grooming” and “sexualizing”. They have no problem with kids being exposed to sexuality as long as it is heteronormative. They want the gay characters out of Disney. They don’t want the ‘normal’ romances out. They are using words like “grooming” and “sexualizing” because they want to imply pedophilia without saying it. They are implying that seeing someone dressed in drag at a reading at a library will turn kids gay or transsexual or whatever but they don’t want to say that because it would sound like nonsense because it is. So instead they use weasel words to imply it is just about not exposing young children to sex. They focus on young age groups where virtually everyone agrees they should not be exposed to sexual content. Push harder though and you see it is not actual sex that is being taught at that age, just different kinds of relationships that the kids are going to encounter. This is then weaponized as if it were child abuse and people with very smooth brains don’t question it and just repeat the propaganda. They communicate in buzzwords so they can shock those unexposed to it and produce anger and hatred amongst the faithful and imply horrific abuse. If you can make the enemy evil enough than ANYTHING is justified. It is also carefully phrased so that if you call them out on it they can act offended and suggest you are crazy for thinking them meant what they said and say they never meant that and descend into quibbling over terms while continuing to export the same easily misunderstood propaganda. The love of truth is dead in them.

There is a deep irony that the people most up in arms over the ridiculous Church of Satan being involved in something are perfectly content to communicate and be communicated to in what is a blatantly satanic manner. It is all deception and double-speak and blurred meanings. It is 1984 type brainwashing from the people who have never read the book and scream endlessly that everyone else is using 1984 techniques. If I believed they operated out of ignorance I could feel some empathy but I don’t believe it. Push hard enough and it is clear they just love the lie or justify the lie in service to a higher cause.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, helix said:

Let me be clear that I have no love of DezNat.  My interactions with them have been horrid.  I can't see how any thinking human being can think their kind of mocking goes hand-in-hand with Christ.  But just because we don't like someone doesn't mean we have a green light to paint them with every bad brush in our bucket.

For example, one fellow DezNat ribbed him when he jokingly said: "I knew @JPBellum was an undercover #LGBT activist from the moment I met him."  JP Bellum jokingly replied with "Globalist agenda to make everyone gay usually overseen by the Jews".  Does that joke make him anti-semite?  You implied it does.  But most of us recognize when someone is giving a politically incorrect tongue-in-cheek reply to a joke. 

You couldn't find other comments from him being racist, so you brought up misogyny?  Huh?  That's not racism.  Misogyny is awful, but we shouldn't weaponize labels by branding others as racist when their comments aren't about race.   DezNat was not started as a group desiring to, say, keep out Mexican immigrants, or opposing Islamism, or arguing that somehow white culture is superior. 

To better judge a person, it helps to recognize when they say things like this:

while in the same breath (and same blog post), say things like this:

The laziest (and easiest) way to force labels onto an individual is to 1) readily accept anything they say at face value if it agrees with our labels of him, and 2) reject their words when it contradicts our label by calling their words pre-planned misdirection and lies.  Which is what you've done.  

Finally, the reason I'm still here is I'm fascinated by radicalism, I'm curious why people radicalize, and it's not illuminating just to claim every radical is a racist just because we don't like them.  I'm also curious if there are any active church members in this arrested Patriot group and if any overlap with DezNat, and so far I've still seen no evidence of this. 

 

Even that mocking anti-Semitic statement is backed by other anti-Semitic statements. Did you like the line about building a temple certainly succeeded in  taking those Jews down a few pegs? I don’t feel obligated to dance around with the weasel words of propagandists. If they speak the language of the alt-right and reuse the memes of the alt-right, and speak in terms the alt-right uses about creating a white ethnostate but carefully don’t outright say we want to exile all the minorities to create said state I am still going to call them racist. If they are feeding at the trough and ideology of fascism and using the ideological weapons of fascism I am going to call you a fascist. I don’t feel obligated to give the benefit of the doubt to the point that I have to be a drooling simpleton credulously saying they didn’t actually say anything racist. They just want racist goals without the racism. What is wrong with that?

Edited June 15, 2022 by The Nehor

[provoman]

removed

Edited June 15, 2022 by provoman

[smac97]

3 hours ago, provoman said:

Quote

These are the same people screaming about how someone dressed in drag is exposing kids to sexuality and take their kids to Hooter’s. They then argue that Hooter’s is a family restaurant because kids eat free sometimes.

In other words it was never about exposing kids to sexuality in general.

Is that “whataboutism”?

Yes.  Yes it is.

Earlier today I came across this article that addresses this point: Why Drag Events for Kids Are Inappropriate—And Actually Work Against the LGBT Community

Some excerpts:

Quote

My memories of elementary school are foggy, but I sure don’t remember any drag queens coming to class for story time. Apparently, at least in a few places, times have changed.

New reporting reveals that in New York City, taxpayer money was used to put on drag events in public school classrooms. 

Yes, seriously.

“New York City shelled out more than $200,000 in taxpayer funding in the past five years to have drag queens come into classrooms and interact with schoolchildren as young as age 3,” Fox News reports. “The nonprofit Drag Story Hour NYC, previously known as Drag Queen Story Hour NYC, received approximately $207,000 in taxpayer funding since 2018.”
...

Teaching children to respect all people is certainly important, and we should all be concerned about violence towards any and every population. That being said, drag often has a sexual component to it. Performers frequently dress provocatively and the art form is meant to experiment with the boundaries of gender and sex. 

Do kids really need to be exposed to all that at such a young age?

No.  No they don't.

Quote

There have been about 50 programs put on in NYC schools by the group so far this year, Fox News reports. Yet while they undoubtedly remain uncommon occurrences, drag-themed events for children are also occurring outside of New York and outside of schools. 

For example, a Dallas gay bar recently hosted a drag night for children, which included a neon sign reading “it’s not gonna lick itself” and suggestive performers in full drag:

 

 

In another example, the following event in Austin, Texas was marketed as “family-friendly” and reportedly had at least 50 children in attendance:

To be clear, there is not an enormous number of drag queen child events surging throughout the country. And it’s always possible to find a few crazy examples of something on the internet. But there’s enough of a pattern of reports emerging here—let alone a major city funding this in schools with tax dollars—for it to warrant some serious concern.

I agree that there is a sufficient "pattern of reports" to "warrant some serious concern."

Quote

These Events Are Not Appropriate for Children

I am gay and have been to a handful of drag shows. It’s not really my thing, but if people enjoy it, there’s nothing wrong with it—for adults. But it’s absolutely not appropriate for children.

{} {N}o honest onlooker can look at the above scenes from Dallas and Austin and think it’s anything but inappropriate. These are explicitly sexual performances being pushed onto children. Taking children to such a performance is akin to taking them to any heterosexual strip club, which it’s hard to believe anyone would condone. Such actions are creepy, gross, and accomplish absolutely nothing positive. 

Children are children. Their brains are not yet fully formed. They’re still learning to process the world around them. The last thing they need is to have to worry about elements of sex, love, or gender.

I disagree with the first part (I think there is plenty "wrong" with drag shows and other sexually-themed events, regardless of sexual orientation), but I fully agree with the last part.

Quote

Now, in fairness, not all these events are the same. Many of the story-hour events in school classrooms, for example, do not involve twerking, and the drag queens are sometimes, while in drag, not wearing scandalously revealing clothing. 

This is a fair point, I suppose.  All such things are inappropriate, IMO, but some are considerably more so than others.

Quote

But it’s still unsuitable and likely confusing for children. As anyone who has been to a drag show surely knows, drag is inherently tied up with sexual themes. And as a form of performance art, drag is inherently tied up with gender-bending and crossing societal lines. This is not something young children—as young as 3-years-old in some cases per Fox News—have any business being exposed to. 

Can’t we just let kids be kids?

Yes, that sure would be nice.

Quote

This Sabotages the LGBT Community’s Progress

For many years, the LGBT community, gay men in particular, were unfairly stigmatized as predatory and viewed as disproportionately more likely to be pedophiles. Ample research has shown this to be untrue, and, thankfully, this stereotype has faded, if not evaporated, among the public. 

But fringe activists pushing sexual activities onto children threaten this progress.

To be clear, I am not suggesting that all people involved in these drag queen events are child predators or are seeking to harm children. (Although some reportedly are). Many may have good intentions and fail to see why what they’re doing is so inappropriate and harmful. But that doesn’t really matter. Even though the vast majority of LGBT people would certainly reject events like the Austin/Dallas drag performances out of hand, these fringe actors change public perception and give us all a bad name.

I concur with this.

Quote

Public Schoolchildren Are Captive Audiences

It’s particularly disturbing that these drag queen events for children are being pushed throughout the New York City public school system. While still disturbing, it’s one thing if parents are choosing to take their children to these events on their own time. But, according to Fox News, parents were only sometimes informed of these events ahead of time and were not given an opportunity to opt their children out. And, under our failing public education system, families are often left trapped with the local public school as their only option because we do not have robust school choice yet in this country.

It’s especially immoral to have these drag events imposed on captive child audiences in the public school system—and to make taxpayers, many of whom certainly disapprove of this activity, pay for it.  

Yep.

Here's the part responsive to your comment:

Quote

Whataboutism Isn’t An Argument

Defenders of the drag events for kids online often resort to whataboutism. Here are a few examples:

But whataboutism isn’t an argument. It’s actually a textbook logical fallacy. “Well, you guys also expose your kids to inappropriate sexual content,” is in no way a defense for your own actions. 

I hold the apparently controversial view that kids should be allowed to be kids, and not exposed to scantily-clad adults and inappropriate suggestive dancers, whether it’s at Hooters or a gay bar. (Although it’s worth noting that there’s a significant difference in degree between, say, the Hooters waitresses’ skimpy outfits and the twerking drag queens on stage at some of these events). 

Pointing out examples where some people on the Right hold a double standard doesn’t actually offer any defense of exposing children to twerking drag queens. It should be easy for us to condemn all of this questionable behavior across the board. 

Just keep your children out of explicitly sexual events. This shouldn’t be hard.

Correct, this should not be difficult.  And yet we keep seeing stories about children being exposed to this stuff.

Quote

The Takeaway

Despite what online alarmism might sometimes suggest, this country is not experiencing an epidemic of drag queens abusing children. And, I want to be clear, there is nothing wrong with drag in and of itself for adults, nor is there anything wrong with teaching children to respect and treat all people equally. But inappropriate drag events involving children are becoming more common and now even infecting some of our public school systems.

This disturbing development is harmful for children and actually risks sabotaging the LGBT community’s progress. Still, conservatives need to be careful not to overact in ways that will come back to bite us or incur even more harmful events in the lives of impacted children.

Again, I disagree, on religious grounds, with sexually-themed events, shows, etc.  But Free Speech and all that.

Exposing children to this stuff, however, is beyond the pale.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Pyreaux]

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

These are the same people screaming about how someone dressed in drag is exposing kids to sexuality and take their kids to Hooter’s. They then argue that Hooter’s is a family restaurant because kids eat free sometimes.

In other words it was never about exposing kids to sexuality in general.

My sister says in Utah, Hooters is a family restaurant, with the best hot wings too.

[Calm]

38 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

My sister says in Utah, Hooters is a family restaurant, with the best hot wings too.

Yeah….it is quite possible that everyone was well behaved there and it is only the uniforms that marked it as different than any other restaurant in town.  Five years out of date if she is still claiming that.

https://www.fox13now.com/2017/01/17/nearly-a-decade-in-conservative-utah-hooters-closes-its-doors

https://www.facebook.com/Hooters-Utah-152006258150569/

Edited June 15, 2022 by Calm

[ksfisher]

12 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

My sister says in Utah, Hooters is a family restaurant, with the best hot wings too.

I would never take my family there.  I've never heard it called a family restaurant either.

[The Nehor]

14 hours ago, smac97 said:

Yes.  Yes it is.

Earlier today I came across this article that addresses this point: Why Drag Events for Kids Are Inappropriate—And Actually Work Against the LGBT Community

Some excerpts:

No.  No they don't.

I agree that there is a sufficient "pattern of reports" to "warrant some serious concern."

I disagree with the first part (I think there is plenty "wrong" with drag shows and other sexually-themed events, regardless of sexual orientation), but I fully agree with the last part.

This is a fair point, I suppose.  All such things are inappropriate, IMO, but some are considerably more so than others.

Yes, that sure would be nice.

I concur with this.

Yep.

Here's the part responsive to your comment:

Correct, this should not be difficult.  And yet we keep seeing stories about children being exposed to this stuff.

Again, I disagree, on religious grounds, with sexually-themed events, shows, etc.  But Free Speech and all that.

Exposing children to this stuff, however, is beyond the pale.

Thanks,

-Smac

Yes, exposing kids to gender bending is beyond the pale. I can’t believe this is something only this perverse generation would do.

When I was young I was never exposed to genderbending material of any kind. I watched wholesome cartoons that involved things like Bugs Bunny dressing in drag to seduce Elmer Fudd.

 

This insanity is nuts. All this hysteria shows is how screwed up adults are. What do kids see when they go to a library and have a drag queen read to them? Here is a colorfully dressed (neat) adult that is very dramatic when they read and they do all the voices. Kids giggle about a story and go home. It is not about the kids and it never was.

Drag queens are not doing adult-themed drag shows for kids. Why are so many people desperately trying to make themselves stupider than they are?

[nuclearfuels]

On 6/13/2022 at 4:31 PM, smac97 said:

I could not find any social media content from any of them

To me this suggests they were likely law enforcement going undercover

[smac97]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Yes, exposing kids to gender bending is beyond the pale.

Fallacy #1 - Equivocation.

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I can’t believe this is something only this perverse generation would do.

When I was young I was never exposed to genderbending material of any kind. I watched wholesome cartoons that involved things like Bugs Bunny dressing in drag to seduce Elmer Fudd.

Fallacy #2: Variations on tu quoque.

I think it is well within the bounds of reasonable discourse to argue that exposing young children to sexually provocative materials, behaviors, events, etc. is wrong.

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

This insanity is nuts.

Indeed.  It is a strange time to be alive when objecting to the sexualization of children is seen as an expression of "insanity."

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

All this hysteria shows is how screwed up adults are.

Good bit of gaslighting, this.

From the article:

Quote

Teaching children to respect all people is certainly important, and we should all be concerned about violence towards any and every population. That being said, drag often has a sexual component to it. Performers frequently dress provocatively and the art form is meant to experiment with the boundaries of gender and sex. 
...
To be clear, there is not an enormous number of drag queen child events surging throughout the country. And it’s always possible to find a few crazy examples of something on the internet. But there’s enough of a pattern of reports emerging here—let alone a major city funding this in schools with tax dollars—for it to warrant some serious concern.

Again, it is within the bounds of reasonable discourse to argue that exposing young children to sexually provocative materials, behaviors, events, etc. is wrong.

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

What do kids see when they go to a library and have a drag queen read to them?

Well, some kids in the UK saw this:

Quote

Library Apologizes For Hosting ‘Rainbow Dildo Butt Monkey’ To Entertain Children

• A London library is apologizing for bringing in a “Rainbow Dildo Butt Monkey” to entertain children.
• Redbridge Libraries hosted Mandinga Arts Group at a Redbridge Libraries Summer Reading Challenge event Saturday in east London where video footage posted on social media shows a number of performers outside the event, according to the Evening Standard.
• One of the performers was dressed in a rainbow monkey costume exposing a fake buttocks and a fake penis. 

A London library is apologizing for hosting an event where an actor described as a “Rainbow Dildo Butt Monkey” reportedly entertained children.

Redbridge Libraries hosted the Mandinga Arts Group at a Redbridge Libraries Summer Reading Challenge event Saturday in east London, the Evening Standard reported. Video footage and photographs posted on social media shows a number of performers outside the event, including an individual dressed in a rainbow monkey costume exposing a fake buttocks and a fake penis.
...
“Can a word capture the spirit of an age? Images certainly can,” tweeted Twitter user Dr. Jane Harris. “In future, when we think back on the zeitgeist of 2021, we may remember Rainbow Dildo Butt Monkey, and wonder how on earth we descended to thinking that this was suitable entertainment for children.”

Photographs of the performer - who performed in front of children - are NSFW, but here's a censored version:

And then there was this story:

Quote

Houston Public Library admits registered child sex offender read to kids in Drag Queen Storytime

A media spokesperson for the library confirmed one of those drag queens, Tatiana Mala Nina, is Alberto Garza, a 32-year-old child sex offender.

 

HOUSTON — A registered child sex offender has been reading to children at Houston Public Library as part of its Drag Queen Storytime.

A group called Mass Resistance, which has been trying to put an end to the program, contacted KHOU about the child sex offender.

Mass Resistance claims it had been asking the City of Houston for months to disclose information about the drag queens, and when requests went unanswered, they did their own digging and made the shocking link.

 

A media spokesperson for the library confirmed one of the program’s drag queens, Tatiana Mala Nina, is Alberto Garza, a 32-year-old child sex offender. In 2008, he was convicted of assaulting an 8-year-old boy.

And then there's this video of "{a} drag queen in the United Kingdom {} caught on camera teaching small children at a library story hour how to twerk":

And this:

Some excerpts:

• At 1:32 (a nude man posing with a child).
• At 1:43 (a "drag queen" specifically modeling twerking, and telling the children to "turn around and . . . shake your butts!  Shake 'em!  Shake 'em!  Shake 'em!  Shake 'em!").
• At 1:51 (a performer climbing onto a table and spreading his legs wide open right in front of a little boy).
• At 2:24 (a little boy, sitting in front of a "drag queen" an apparently in "drag" himself, says "What has this world come to?  It's come to a world where drag kids actually exist," and the drag queen behind him then says "And people do Ketamine on a couch," at which point the little boy mimes sniffing a substance off his wrist).
• At 3:01 (a voiceover: "Noone's there to push an agenda on anyone, noone's there to to persuade people or to recruit people...", set to images of a little girl at a pride parade interacting with half-naked men wearing dog collars and bondage clothing, a little boy looking repulsed at seeing the full frontal nudity of a man standing in front of him).
• At 3:39 (a little girl, apparently at a Drage Queen Story Hour, dancing in a routine that includes her stripping off her tutu, while the drag queen on the stage saying "It's family programming!  Love it!  Yes.").
• At 4:09 (video of a little boy "twerking" in front of adult men, apparently at a pride parade).

Grooming.  Sexualization of children.  This stuff is wrong.  

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Here is a colorfully dressed (neat) adult that is very dramatic when they read and they do all the voices. Kids giggle about a story and go home. It is not about the kids and it never was.

Drag queens are not doing adult-themed drag shows for kids.

Except when they are.

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Why are so many people desperately trying to make themselves stupider than they are?

Fallacy #3: Straight-up ad hominem.  

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited June 15, 2022 by smac97

[Tacenda]

16 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Variations on the tu quoque fallacy don't work here.  

I think it is well within the bounds of reasonable discourse to argue that exposing young children to sexually provocative materials, behaviors, events, etc. is wrong.

Indeed.  It is a strange time to be alive when objecting to the sexualization of children is seen as an expression of "insanity."

Good bit of gaslighting, this.

From the article:

Again, it is within the bounds of reasonable discourse to argue that exposing young children to sexually provocative materials, behaviors, events, etc. is wrong.

Well, some kids in the UK saw this:

Photographs of the performer - who performed in front of children - are NSFW, but here's a censored version:

And then there was this story:

And then there's this video of "{a} drag queen in the United Kingdom {} caught on camera teaching small children at a library story hour how to twerk":

And this:

Some excerpts:

• At 1:32 (a nude man posing with a child).
• At 1:43 (a "drag queen" specifically modeling twerking, and telling the children to "turn around and . . . shake your butts!  Shake 'em!  Shake 'em!  Shake 'em!  Shake 'em!").
• At 1:51 (a performer climbing onto a table and spreading his legs wide open right in front of a little boy).
• At 2:24 (a little boy, sitting in front of a "drag queen" an apparently in "drag" himself, says "What has this world come to?  It's come to a world where drag kids actually exist.", and the drag queen behind him then says "And people to Ketamine on a couch," at which point the little boy mimes sniffing a substance off his wrist).
• At 3:01 (a voiceover: "Noone's there to push an agenda on anyone, noone's there to to persuade people or to recruit people...", set to images of a little girl at a pride parade interacting with half-naked men wearing dog collars and bondage clothing, a little boy looking repulsed at seeing the full frontal nudity of a man standing in front of him).
• At 3:39 (a little girl, apparently at a Drage Queen Story Hour, dancing in a routine that includes her stripping off her tutu, while the drag queen on the stage saying "It's family programming!  Love it!  Yes.").
• At 4:09 (video of a little boy "twerking" in front of adult men, apparently at a pride parade).

Grooming.  Sexualization of children.  This stuff is wrong.  

Except when they are.

And you end with a straight-up ad hominem.  

Thanks,

-Smac

I see the problems here for sure. But then lets also look at the straight religious folks that abuse young children behind closed doors or hidden.

But do see that the videos you shared scare me to death just like the straight people that use religion or organizations to abuse.

I didn't see all the performers at the Idaho Pride day. In Utah, I've attended one Pride parade and took a photo of the Mormons Building Bridges walking along in the parade holding a banner with that name. I posted it on FB, and boy did I face a wrath from my aunt who couldn't believe I'd post something like that and asked why would I ever do that. I finally took it down. I'm a wimp.

Utah seems to have a pretty tame Pride parade, with the local news crews supporting it as well. But I'm sure if anyone did what these idiots did in the videos, especially the one saying they are good pedophiles (couldn't continue watching) then there would be people wanting to riot here in Utah as in Idaho.

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Tacenda

[Ipod Touch]

LGB, drop the TQ

Lesbians and Gays are pretty normal, everyday people.  It is TQ -- especially the T -- that is causing all the problems.  The Ts are promoting all this degenerate nonsense.

Ts are autogynophilc men living out a fetish and pretending to be oppressed.  In reality, they are semi-autistic software developers who like anime.

LGB, drop the TQ.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22005209/#:~:text=Autogynephilia is defined as a,-female (MtF) transsexualism.

[Ipod Touch]

@The Nehor will defend this:

Degeneracy is degeneracy.  I don't care if you wrap it in a pride flag.  And I'm willing to bet the vast majority of gays and lesbians oppose the involvement of children in overtly sexual events.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Ipod Touch

[smac97]

4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I see the problems here for sure.  But then lets also look at the straight religious folks that abuse young children behind closed doors or hidden.

This is a good example of the tu quoque fallacy:

Quote

"Tu quoque" means "you too," and consists of responding to allegations of wrong doing by saying, in essence, "you do the same thing." That response may be true, but it doesn't deny or explain away the alleged wrongdoing. Tu quoque is also known as the "you too" fallacy, and the "two wrongs make a right" fallacy.

There is no justification for abusing young children.  By anyone, including "straight religious folks."  But that has no bearing on whether the abuse / sexualization / grooming of children as seen in my previous post is appropriate.

There is also a fairly significant distinction between the two circumstances: There is no widespread attempt to justify / rationalize / condone / celebrate the abuse of young children by "straight religious folks," but there is a widespread attempt to justify / rationalize / condone / celebrate the abuse of young children in some other circumstances, including those referenced in my previous post.

4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

But do see that the videos you shared scare me to death just like the straight people that use religion or organizations to abuse or ?

I don't understand your question.

4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I didn't see all the performers at the Idaho Pride day.

Nor did I.  And I sure hope that the behaviors did not mimic the heavily sexual and hedonistic fare seen in so many other "pride" parades.  Much of this stuff seems to be getting normalized.  See, e.g., here: Yes, kink belongs at Pride. And I want my kids to see it.  An excerpt:

Quote

Our family often took the train into Philadelphia, but as we rode across the bridge to attend the city’s Pride parade five years ago, my wife’s leg bounced with a nervous jitter. She squeezed my hand, worried that she might run into a colleague or be harassed by a stranger. My wife is trans, and wasn’t out at the time, so she typically only expressed her authenticity in the privacy of our home. That morning she wore a green skirt and light makeup, brushing her hair all to one side. Even though we’d attended Pride marches and protests in previous years, that day was our first celebrating openly as a family.

When our children grew tired of marching, we plopped onto a nearby curb. Just as we got settled, our elementary-schooler pointed in the direction of oncoming floats, raising an eyebrow at a bare-chested man in dark sunglasses whose black suspenders clipped into a leather thong. The man paused to be spanked playfully by a partner with a flog. “What are they doing?” my curious kid asked as our toddler cheered them on. The pair was the first of a few dozen kinksters who danced down the street, laughing together as they twirled their whips and batons, some leading companions by leashes. At the time, my children were too young to understand the nuance of the situation, but I told them the truth: That these folks were members of our community celebrating who they are and what they like to do.

The kink community has participated in Pride since its inception — risking their jobs and safety to be authentically themselves in public. Still, every year as Pride Month approaches, a debate erupts about whether kink belongs at Pride at all. Those hoping to oust kinksters often cite the presence of children as their top concern. That was pointedly the case this year when Twitter users argued that kink at Pride is a highly sexualized experience that children should be shielded from. Thousands of users supported these posts, claiming that kink at Pride crosses a line because minors also attend events. I agree that Pride should be a welcoming space for children and teens, but policing how others show up doesn’t protect or uplift young people. Instead, homogenizing self-expression at Pride will do more harm to our children than good. When my own children caught glimpses of kink culture, they got to see that the queer community encompasses so many more nontraditional ways of being, living, and loving.
...
Anti-kink advocates tend to manipulate language about safety and privacy by asserting that attendees are nonconsensually exposed to overt displays of sexuality. The most outrageous claim is that innocent bystanders are forced to participate in kink simply by sharing space with the kink community, as if the presence of kink at Pride is a perverse exhibition that kinksters pursue for their own gratification. But kinksters at Pride are not engaged in sex acts — and we cannot confuse their self-expression with obscenity.

And here: Nudity, Kink, and Safe Spaces for Kids Can All Coexist at Pride

An excerpt:

Quote

As a parent, I have a lot of grievances about Pride and the related marches, parades, festivals, and events. Not one of them is about bare body parts or floats packed with dancers in skimpy underwear or drag performers or leather dykes and daddies.
 

More here:

Quote

A June 1 article from Heather Tirado Gilligan for Fatherly asks "Should You Take Your Kids To A Pride Parade?" In it, Gilligan fully acknowledges that such events are "filled with sights that may be new to kids, like public nudity and kink" and that they "aren’t the most sober of places." Yet she still argues that parents should "absolutely" take their children to such events. 

I read the actual piece so you don't have to, and it's not only as bad as you'd think it would be, it's worse.

The only reason for hesitation expressed in the piece is because they're "new things." It's certainly not that children should not be exposed to "public nudity and kink," or that such behavior is unseemly in a public setting, or that to be so vocal about this promotion is to be vocally in support of grooming.

Here's the unsatisfactory way in which Tirado Gilligan addresses the nudity and kink from adults that children may be exposed to:

Jenifer McGuire, Ph.D., an associate professor of family social science at the University of Minnesota, has been to Pride celebrations across the world with her family, from Tucson to Amsterdam. McGuire, a lesbian parent, always preps her kids for possible adult content beforehand. After a few events, the kids knew to expect nudity and other surprises. “They just had to learn to laugh and enjoy things. Like there were these Beanie Babies with giant penises on them,” McGuire says. “For a fourth- and fifth-grade kid, that's super funny.”

"The benefits to her family always outweighed any potential downside, McGuire says, because they could see how many other queer families were in their community and around the world. “They don't necessarily get that from their swimming teams and drama clubs and school,” she says.

That it's. Gilligan's piece contains two measly paragraphs--out of 15--addressing the main and very real concern. The rest of the piece mostly discusses the history of pride month, how to introduce pride to children through books, and the more kid-friendly and appropriate events at pride parades, such as free snacks and beaded necklaces. 

Fatherly promoted the piece via a lengthy thread of excerpts on Twitter, as did Gilligan, who wrote in her tweet to "say gay as loud as you can." 

Some Twitter responses to the above quoted article:

Quote

MichLinn 
@MichelleLinn1

Teaching your kids that people can love another adult human is good. Taking young kids to pride parades is not. 

And I been to many of gay clubs, parades and etc. Its not young child friendly unless you are aiming to sexualize them. 

So no.

---

Just Jeremy
@JeremyJust

Please stop trying to sexualize children. 

There’s nothing wrong with pride parades but public nudity kinks? Really?

Why are pedos suddenly taking over the pride movement?

---

Tim Young
@TimRunsHisMouth
Replying to @FatherlyHQ

"filled with sights that may be new to kids, like public nudity and kink."  ...so you're admitting that you're groomers.

---

Geoffrey Miller
@primalpoly
Replying to @FatherlyHQ

Pick one:
- child-friendly
- kinky, edgy, adult, transgressive, gritty, wild, wicked, authentic to the spirit of Stonewall.

You can't have both.

Stop sanitizing everything to be family friendly. Some things are just for adults, & that's OK.

---

Kateland Smith
@kateland_smith
Replying to @FatherlyHQ

Exposing children to naked adults, possibly even engaging in sexual acts just sets them up to be groomed or preyed upon later, by adults, and perhaps without even realizing that what is happening to them is wrong.

Is that "Fatherly"?(no)

Noting these concerns has no bearing on the propriety of sexualizing/grooming children in other contexts, which is also deplorable and wrong.

4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

In Utah, I've attended one Pride parade and took a photo of the Mormons Building Bridges walking along in the parade holding a banner with that name. I posted it on FB, and boy did I face a wrath from my aunt who couldn't believe I'd post something like that and asked why would I ever do that. I finally took it down. I'm a wimp.

That sounds like fairly tame content.  Not sure how it is relevant to the sexually provocative/grooming stuff under discussion.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited June 16, 2022 by smac97

[Ipod Touch]

It never ceases to amaze me how many straight people are determined to take their kids to see "kink" at pride.

Like, aren't there a million other pride events/celebration that are kid friendly?  These people are "spicy straights" trying to look progressive and cool. 

[Ipod Touch]

20 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Nor did I.  And I sure hope that the behaviors did not mimic the heavily sexual and hedonistic fare seen in so many other "pride" parades.

I'm not really one to attend pride parades.  But from what I've seen there are all sorts of events and parades.  A social club I belong to held a kid/parent dinner with several gay couple members and their children this past weekend.  I don't think it is much different than the nonsense we straight people get up to.  I'll happily take my kids to a "Days of '47" parade.  But I won't take them to a parade on bourbon street in New Orleans during Mardi Gras.

People find what they look for.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, nuclearfuels said:

To me this suggests they were likely law enforcement going undercover

If they were undercover, social media would be provided for a backstory for any decent attempt.  More likely it is someone smart enough who has been told to stay off the grid as much as possible given face recognition tech, etc or whatever avoiding digital surveillance is called (I believe staying off the grid refers to not leaving digital tracks, but I may be wrong).

You need to be careful to look at all the context or you will miss stuff like the “Abolish” on a bullhorn that is being claimed it belongs to the FBI as proof the one arrested was a plant.  

Edited June 15, 2022 by Calm

[Ipod Touch]

It is so fascinating that @The Nehordefends the overt sexualization of children. And simply because if he thinks if he denounces it, he'll be disloyal to his political team.

Anyone who promotes the involvement of children with drag queens, kink, and fetishists, is promoting degeneracy. They are groomers.  They should be shamed and denounced.

[Ipod Touch]

22 hours ago, Calm said:

“During these flash demonstrations, Patriot Front members generally wear khaki pants and a blue or white polo shirt; many also wear masks. The group intensely focuses on “optics;” they have used attention-grabbing smoke bombs, signal flares and torches during their demonstrations. Members routinely chant, “Blood and Soil,” a slogan with origins in Nazi Germany that Patriot Front uses to conflate white European identity with American soil.”

I watched a couple of videos of these flash demonstrations.

What was really weird is that they seemed to happen in completely empty urban centers.  Like, downtown Chicago at 3am on a Sunday.  The man leading the procession and using a bullhorn obviously didn't know how to use that bullhorn.  You couldn't understand anything he was saying.  For a minute I thought my cough medicine had me tripping and I thought I was watching a really weird version of Charlie Brown's dad giving a lecture on the Higgs Boson.

Not a very professional operation to be sure.