smac97 Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 Blech: Quote COEUR D'ALENE, Idaho — Six Utah men were among a large alleged white supremacist group arrested Saturday and accused of planning to stage a riot at an LGBTQ rally in Idaho. Police had received information over the previous two days that people planned to disrupt the pride events in Coeur D'Alene, causing officers to have a large presence at the events, Coeur D'Alene Police Chief Lee White said during a news conference streamed by channel KHQ-Q6 on Sunday. At 1:38 p.m. on Sunday, a "concerned citizen" reported that about 20 people "jumped into a U-Haul wearing masks. They had shields and quote 'looked like a little army,'" Lee said Police made a traffic stop about 10 minutes later and detained 31 people in the van. They were wearing shields, shin guards and other riot gear, including "at least one smoke grenade," according to the police chief. The Utah men arrested included Jared Michael Boyce, 27, of Springville; Branden Mitchell Haney, 35, of Kaysville; Cameron Kathan Pruitt, 23, of Midway; Alexander Nicholai Sisenstein, 27, of Midvale; Dakota Ray Tabler, 29, of West Valley City; and Nathaniel Taylor Whitfield, 24, of Elk Ridge, according to an Idaho jail booking report. Lee said those people were arrested for investigation of conspiracy to riot. Although conspiracy to riot is a misdemeanor charge, Lee told reporters he would rather arrest the group to prevent the riot than allow them to start the riot. "At this point, they appeared to be affiliated with the group Patriot Front," he said. The group members were each wearing the same outfit, with insignia and logos, and one patch that read Patriot Front. The group included people from numerous states including Texas, Idaho, Utah, Colorado, South Dakota, Illinois, Arkansas, Wyoming, Washington, Oregon and Virginia, Lee said. More info here. A bit about Patriot Front (it ain't good...) : Quote Patriot Front is an American white nationalist and neo-fascist hate group.[5] Part of the broader alt-right movement, the group split off from the neo-Nazi organization Vanguard America during the aftermath of the Unite the Right rally in 2017.[1][6][7][8] The group maintains an Americana aesthetic, utilizing imagery of American culture, patriotism, and other widely accepted traditional American values to promote its ideology. According to the Anti-Defamation League, the group generated more than 82% of the racist, antisemitic, and other hateful propaganda tracked by the ADL in the United States in 2021, comprising 3,992 incidents distributed across every state except Hawaii and Alaska.[9] ... The group uses a combination of patriotic and historic imagery, such as a fasces surrounded by thirteen stars, and attention-grabbing techniques such as setting off smoke bombs during demonstrations and protests.[12][13] The group published a manifesto which contained passages including: Those of foreign birth may occupy civil status within the lands occupied by the state, and they may even be dutiful citizens, yet they may not be American. Membership within the American nation is inherited through blood, not ink. Even those born in America may yet be foreign...Nationhood cannot be bestowed upon those who are not of the founding stock of our people, and those who do not share the common spirit that permeates our greater civilization, and the European diaspora...In order to survive as a culture, a heritage, and a way of being, our nation must learn that its collective interests are fighting against its collective threats of replacement and enslavement...The damage done to this nation and its people will not be fixed if every issue requires the approval and blessing from the dysfunctional American democratic system. Democracy has failed in this once great nation.[14][15] Fortunately, this group does not appear to be very big: Quote Leaked online chats The Guardian reported on 28 January 2022 that more than 400 gigabytes of private Patriot Front chat logs on RocketChat had been obtained and published by Unicorn Riot, a left-wing nonprofit media organization.[39] The logs reveal efforts to expand membership, with the founder Thomas Rousseau writing "We are absolutely desperate for new people. We've been in the 220's to 230's membership rut for nearly a full year". The group can be seen attempting to inflate its numbers and importance, outlining plans to create fake social media accounts pretending to be bystanders to marches, and posting deceptive material on Twitter, Reddit and 4chan, as well as direct messaging traditional media outlets and rejoicing when it is mentioned in the news. The leaders frequently scold members for not participating in events.[39] Nevertheless, it is still terrible to see this happening. As noted above, six of the participants are from Utah, and two are from Idaho. I could not find any social media content from any of them, so there's no way to ascertain whether they are members of the Church. If they are, that would be pretty troubling, and incompatible with the clear counsel we have received from Pres. Nelson and other leaders of the Church condemning racism, violence, etc. As it is, these fellows sort of lucked out, as they were stopped before they did anything violent (which was clearly their intent), and so they only face misdemeanor charges. Racism of every sort is abhorrent. Politically-motivated violence is abhorrent. Thanks, -Smac 1
Pyreaux Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 It would be odd, also because white supremacists groups like the Klu Klux Klan historically hate the Latter-day Saints also. 2
bluebell Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 If any of them are members they should probably have a disciplinary council (or whatever it is called now). 3
longview Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 Consider the big picture: parents have less say about whether their children should be exposed to sex education, reading assignments containing soft porn (or outright abusive language, shocking violence, etc), school counselors advising young children on contraceptives and abortion referrals (keeping it secret from the parents), giving guidance and/or encouragement for children to question their gender and engage in experiments, not reporting forthrightly on incidents of bullying, pushing for medication to sedate 'troublesome" children to be more compliant at school, and on and on. This is a long standing problem in which the schools, various government agencies, prevailing culture have pressed ever increasing influence on the heart and minds of young people. Thus causing parents to lose more and more of their prerogatives for rearing their children. Their legal authority is steadily being shifted to the nanny state. This has been the pattern for several decades. Now we are seeing more of the trans "recruitment" events at schools, libraries, public parades, and maybe some churches. This has the effect of grooming innocents to be receptive to taking a bizarre and deviant lifestyle. Most would agree that resorting to violence in an attempt to reverse these trends cannot be tolerated and would be counterproductive. What is to be done to protect the family? Will the movement for homeschooling accelerate? 1
ksfisher Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 9 minutes ago, bluebell said: If any of them are members they should probably have a disciplinary council (or whatever it is called now). The ideas espoused by white nationalism are so incompatible with the gospel of Jesus Christ that I would be exceedingly surprised, if any of them were church members, that they were currently active in the church. (And I can't remember what disciplinary councils are called now either. Too many things have changed) 1
halconero Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 If I were a betting man I would be willing to put money on Derek Joseph Smith or Richard Jacob Jessop having some connection to the Church. I grew up 10 minutes north of the Idaho border on the Canadian side. Church members represent a plurality by religious affiliation in Boundary and Bonner county, and are the 2nd largest in Kootenai county. Unfortunately, those same counties also host some of the most militant ultranationalist and racist groups in the United States. I'm not implying a correlation, but the large presence of both and the disaffection some members have had recently from teachings of tolerance in the Church mean its likely some members of the militia were also members of the Church. 3
teddyaware Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 1 hour ago, smac97 said: Blech: More info here. A bit about Patriot Front (it ain't good...) : Fortunately, this group does not appear to be very big: Nevertheless, it is still terrible to see this happening. As noted above, six of the participants are from Utah, and two are from Idaho. I could not find any social media content from any of them, so there's no way to ascertain whether they are members of the Church. If they are, that would be pretty troubling, and incompatible with the clear counsel we have received from Pres. Nelson and other leaders of the Church condemning racism, violence, etc. As it is, these fellows sort of lucked out, as they were stopped before they did anything violent (which was clearly their intent), and so they only face misdemeanor charges. Racism of every sort is abhorrent. Politically-motivated violence is abhorrent. Thanks, -Smac It’s a shame law enforcement around the country wasn’t similarly vigilant and precautionary back 2020 when the BLM riots caused 25 deaths, hundreds of serious injuries, thousands of ruined lives, and 2 billion dollars in property damage. 2
smac97 Posted June 13, 2022 Author Posted June 13, 2022 25 minutes ago, Pyreaux said: It would be odd, also because white supremacists groups like the Klu Klux Klan historically hate the Latter-day Saints also. Yep. It also becomes difficult when the membership of the Church is as diverse as it is worldwide, including in the "center stakes." Thanks, -Smac
smac97 Posted June 13, 2022 Author Posted June 13, 2022 17 minutes ago, longview said: Consider the big picture: parents have less say about whether their children should be exposed to sex education, reading assignments containing soft porn (or outright abusive language, shocking violence, etc), school counselors advising young children on contraceptives and abortion referrals (keeping it secret from the parents), giving guidance and/or encouragement for children to question their gender and engage in experiments, not reporting forthrightly on incidents of bullying, pushing for medication to sedate 'troublesome" children to be more compliant at school, and on and on. None of which justifies or legitimizes racism or violence, including politically-motivated violence. Pres. Oaks put it well in October 2020: Quote An essential part of loving our enemies is to render unto Caesar by keeping the laws of our various countries. Though Jesus’s teachings were revolutionary, He did not teach revolution or lawbreaking. He taught a better way. Modern revelation teaches the same: “Let no man break the laws of the land, for he that keepeth the laws of God hath no need to break the laws of the land. “Wherefore, be subject to the powers that be” (Doctrine and Covenants 58:21–22). And our article of faith, written by the Prophet Joseph Smith after the early Saints had suffered severe persecution from Missouri officials, declares, “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law” (Articles of Faith 1:12). This does not mean that we agree with all that is done with the force of law. It means that we obey the current law and use peaceful means to change it. It also means that we peacefully accept the results of elections. We will not participate in the violence threatened by those disappointed with the outcome. In a democratic society we always have the opportunity and the duty to persist peacefully until the next election. The Savior’s teaching to love our enemies is based on the reality that all mortals are beloved children of God. That eternal principle and some basic principles of law were tested in the recent protests in many American cities. At one extreme, some seem to have forgotten that the First Amendment to the United States Constitution guarantees the “right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” That is the authorized way to raise public awareness and to focus on injustices in the content or administration of the laws. And there have been injustices. In public actions and in our personal attitudes, we have had racism and related grievances. In a persuasive personal essay, the Reverend Theresa A. Dear of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) has reminded us that “racism thrives on hatred, oppression, collusion, passivity, indifference and silence.” As citizens and as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we must do better to help root out racism. At the other extreme, a minority of participants and supporters of these protests and the illegal acts that followed them seem to have forgotten that the protests protected by the Constitution are peaceful protests. Protesters have no right to destroy, deface, or steal property or to undermine the government’s legitimate police powers. The Constitution and laws contain no invitation to revolution or anarchy. All of us—police, protesters, supporters, and spectators—should understand the limits of our rights and the importance of our duties to stay within the boundaries of existing law. Abraham Lincoln was right when he said, “There is no grievance that is a fit object of redress by mob law.” Redress of grievances by mobs is redress by illegal means. That is anarchy, a condition that has no effective governance and no formal police, which undermines rather than protects individual rights. One reason the recent protests in the United States were shocking to so many was that the hostilities and illegalities felt among different ethnicities in other nations should not be felt in the United States. This country should be better in eliminating racism not only against Black Americans, who were most visible in the recent protests, but also against Latinos, Asians, and other groups. This nation’s history of racism is not a happy one, and we must do better. Yep. 17 minutes ago, longview said: This is a long standing problem in which the schools, various government agencies, prevailing culture have pressed ever increasing influence on the heart and minds of young people. Thus causing parents to lose more and more of their prerogatives for rearing their children. Their legal authority is steadily being shifted to the nanny state. This has been the pattern for several decades. Now we are seeing more of the trans "recruitment" events at schools, libraries, public parades, and maybe some churches. This has the effect of grooming innocents to be receptive to taking a bizarre and deviant lifestyle. Most would agree that resorting to violence in an attempt to reverse these trends cannot be tolerated and would be counterproductive. What is to be done to protect the family? Will the movement for homeschooling accelerate? Your question is a good one, and deserves more attention and discussion. Thanks, -Smac
pogi Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 1 hour ago, longview said: Consider the big picture: What does any of this have to do with the OP? 2
Popular Post ttribe Posted June 13, 2022 Popular Post Posted June 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, pogi said: What does any of this have to do with the OP? Nothing. It's a diversion away from the fact that more white nationalists are stirring up trouble, which makes other white people uncomfortable. This way, there can be some kind of discussion about the commie-libs and the REAL damage being done to society. 7
Tacenda Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 One of them is from Kaysville Utah, my old neighborhood.
longview Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 22 minutes ago, pogi said: What does any of this have to do with the OP? The more parents lose their prerogatives for raising their children in accordance with their values, the greater the stresses for the whole. The more the outrages will be expressed, mostly peaceful. But some fringe elements will come out the woodwork to commit violence. As I said, the violence will most likely be unjustified. 1
Popular Post pogi Posted June 13, 2022 Popular Post Posted June 13, 2022 1 minute ago, longview said: The more parents lose their prerogatives for raising their children in accordance with their values, the greater the stresses for the whole. The more the outrages will be expressed, mostly peaceful. But some fringe elements will come out the woodwork to commit violence. As I said, the violence will most likely be unjustified. Ah, I see. Victim blaming. 5
longview Posted June 13, 2022 Posted June 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, pogi said: Ah, I see. Victim blaming. I do not understand. Please clarify.
The Nehor Posted June 14, 2022 Posted June 14, 2022 2 hours ago, longview said: Consider the big picture: parents have less say about whether their children should be exposed to sex education, reading assignments containing soft porn (or outright abusive language, shocking violence, etc), school counselors advising young children on contraceptives and abortion referrals (keeping it secret from the parents), giving guidance and/or encouragement for children to question their gender and engage in experiments, not reporting forthrightly on incidents of bullying, pushing for medication to sedate 'troublesome" children to be more compliant at school, and on and on. This is a long standing problem in which the schools, various government agencies, prevailing culture have pressed ever increasing influence on the heart and minds of young people. Thus causing parents to lose more and more of their prerogatives for rearing their children. Their legal authority is steadily being shifted to the nanny state. This has been the pattern for several decades. Now we are seeing more of the trans "recruitment" events at schools, libraries, public parades, and maybe some churches. This has the effect of grooming innocents to be receptive to taking a bizarre and deviant lifestyle. Most would agree that resorting to violence in an attempt to reverse these trends cannot be tolerated and would be counterproductive. What is to be done to protect the family? Will the movement for homeschooling accelerate? You do none of this is actually happening right? 2nd grade teachers able to say that they have a same sex spouse or read a story about something with two mothers is not sex education. The reading assignments are largely fabricated. School counselors are not passing out contraceptives to YOUNG children. And no one is giving Ritalin or Adderall to kids without parental discussion. I don’t think you understand what “grooming” means. Grooming refers to an adult preparing a minor to have sex with them or with someone specific by establishing a relationship with them with the goal of having a sexual relationship in time. Sometimes the intent it is to wait until the target is a legal adult and sometimes not. Grooming has become the new buzzword but like all the major right wing terms they leave it incredibly vague so if you call them out on it they act offended and said they never meant that kind of grooming while the people they are trying to scare think it does mean that kind of grooming. Deceptive, disingenuous, and vague. Like a lot of their messaging. Keep it vague and morons will assume you are agreeing with them. It is why you have people willing to attack and kill in people’s name while giving the orators feeding them deniability which they crave because they don’t have the strength of their convictions but are willing to steer useful idiots into doing their work for them. Good job coming in with a whataboutism to defend literal white nationalists. Why do you feel the need to defend them and give partial justification for literal and unambiguous rioters? 4
Popular Post The Nehor Posted June 14, 2022 Popular Post Posted June 14, 2022 2 hours ago, teddyaware said: It’s a shame law enforcement around the country wasn’t similarly vigilant and precautionary back 2020 when the BLM riots caused 25 deaths, hundreds of serious injuries, thousands of ruined lives, and 2 billion dollars in property damage. Yes, a real shame. Where was the tear gas and the mass arrests and the rubber bullets? Oh right, they were there the whole time. Happening on live TV and livestreams through the whole thing. Acting like BLM protests got kid-glove treatment is ludicrous. None of these fascists lost an eye and they deserve it more than the people who actually did. It is also whataboutism which is pointless deflection.. The weapon of choice for authoritarian communist justifications. The Russians have always loved it. 6
The Nehor Posted June 14, 2022 Posted June 14, 2022 2 hours ago, ksfisher said: The ideas espoused by white nationalism are so incompatible with the gospel of Jesus Christ that I would be exceedingly surprised, if any of them were church members, that they were currently active in the church. (And I can't remember what disciplinary councils are called now either. Too many things have changed) Member councils. There are white supremacists in the church. Those that reveal themselves publicly are usually shouted down. 2
Popular Post pogi Posted June 14, 2022 Popular Post Posted June 14, 2022 4 minutes ago, longview said: I do not understand. Please clarify. Instead of attacking the alt-right, you are attacking the victims of this alt-right group and suggesting that it is their fault that these attacks and attempted attacks are happening. You are empathizing with the enemy by helping us understand their perspective or “big picture” of why they are angry. Whether it was your intent or not, it comes off as an attempt at justifying it all via “the big picture”. At the very least, it is a distasteful to turn the attack on the victims even before condemning the actions of this alt-right group. 6
Tacenda Posted June 14, 2022 Posted June 14, 2022 I wonder if any Dez Nat members of the church went, if any of course.
The Nehor Posted June 14, 2022 Posted June 14, 2022 Patriot Front has been one of the loudest domestic groups preaching white nationalism online. They have been too blatant and are having trouble recruiting people. Usually they have tried to motivate others and focus on propaganda. They have been trying to artificially inflate their numbers and online presence using bots and other social media tricks. This has largely failed because they don’t have much money and because they are idiots. This intent to intervene more violently makes it look like they are growing more desperate for publicity. They have tied Americanism to blood. By that of course they mean European blood. Big on strong borders and antisemitism. Currently there are people identifying all the arrested with the intent to “name and shame”. A lot of these people are probably going to lose their jobs in the near future in addition to being arrested.
The Nehor Posted June 14, 2022 Posted June 14, 2022 9 minutes ago, Tacenda said: I wonder if any Dez Nat members of the church went, if any of course. Possible it involves people who used the hashtag but there isn’t a Dez Nat organization to belong to.
Tacenda Posted June 14, 2022 Posted June 14, 2022 13 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Member councils. There are white supremacists in the church. Those that reveal themselves publicly are usually shouted down. These men may not have the pointy hats but they sure didn't want to be recognized, like KKK.
The Nehor Posted June 14, 2022 Posted June 14, 2022 7 minutes ago, Tacenda said: These men may not have the pointy hats but they sure didn't want to be recognized, like KKK. Too late. Some employers have already been told who they have working for them from what I hear.
bsjkki Posted June 14, 2022 Posted June 14, 2022 I don’t understand what this has to with the church. We are assuming an affiliation because some arrested were from Idaho and Utah? This group is awful and it seems everyone agrees.
Recommended Posts