Tampa Bay Rays players opt to not wear the "Pride Night " logo on shirts

[MustardSeed]

I think if I were an athlete I might include in my contract that I would not participate in any future political group statements of any type.   

[ksfisher]

22 minutes ago, mbh26 said:

outright governmental mandate in a similar way in which the priesthood was made available to all worthy males? 

What government mandate was involved here?  Although I was only 11 at the time of the revelation I don't recall any government threats.

[smac97]

1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Quote

 

You are posting cheapshots and taunts.

 

All I see is someone that goes out of his way to justify his outrage

First, I am nowhere close to "outraged."

Second, your personal insults continue.  You offer nothing of substance.  No reasoning.  No analysis.  No evidence.  Just taunts and personal attacks.  

1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

over speech he doesn’t like (wearing a rainbow patch)

I am broadly indifferent to "pride" regalia.  I find it to be an extended exercise in commoditized, corporatized virtue signaling.  But I don't really care about it.

What I do find problematic, however, is compelled speech.  I've said that several times now.  And I've provided reasoning and explanation for my position.  And yet you respond with nothing but personal invective.

1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

and goes out of his way to justify why compelling someone else’s speech (standing for the anthem) is not really a big deal. 

Again: "Broadly speaking, I am against compelled speech.  Also broadly speaking, I am very much in favor of Free Speech (reasonable time, place and manner constraints are usually appropriate)."

Again: "Now, can employers *compel* speech?  Can they force employees to say certain things?  Within normative parameters (i.e., no physical threats), I suppose so.  But broadly speaking, I think that is a bad idea.  I dislike the idea of corporations trying to impose political and social ideologies on its employees."

You have not responded in any substantive way to these points.  You just keep going with taunts and personal jabs.

1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Both seem equally trivial and outrageous to me. 

If you have something substantive to say, have at it.  Gratuitous insults and bland, unsupported assertions don't do much for me.

Thanks,

-Smac

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, Nofear said:

Which, in your understanding, is?

What is their eternal destiny?

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, mbh26 said:

It sure looks like compelled speech to me.  Next step in the fight for equality, compelled solemnizing of homosexual marriage in lds temples.  

Making QAnon theories look sane by comparison here.

[Chum]

23 hours ago, Navidad said:

I'm sorry I don't know this - what is a colon clog? Sounds like a term I might enjoy using some day!

Colon clog was the best poop alt I could come up with. Mister Poopyhead seemed verbose.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, mbh26 said:

I'll give you that.  I'm not forced to take my kids to Disney or allow them to watch the Disney channel, which we won't as long as there are gay characters kids movies.  Disney World is overpriced anyway.  But I am forced to buy into socialist public education.  And from the looks of it, what's stopping the government from forcing private schools to celebrate homosexuality?  The Tampa Bay Devil Rays are a private company. 

At what point would you predict a revelation from the brethren giving LGBTQ people the priesthood, solemnizing gay marriage in the temples, teaching homosexuality in primary etc. out of fear of losing the churchs tax exempt status, or outright governmental mandate in a similar way in which the priesthood was made available to all worthy males?  

Okay….factually wrong about how that happened and also deeply disturbing that you lament that change. Is the mask coming off and we get to listen to some variant of “separate but equal” or are we going to go even deeper into the racist rabbithole?

Edited June 8, 2022 by The Nehor

[Chum]

On 6/7/2022 at 1:59 PM, MiserereNobis said:

I prefer the Grateful Dead's Wall of Sound to a wall of text. If I'm going to get pummeled, hit me with some Phil bombs!

I think I only saw them at indoor venues. Cap Center might have held WoS but bless me if I can remember. It was a Dead show after all.

[mbh26]

4 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Okay….factually wrong about how that happened and also deeply disturbing that you lament that change. Is the mask coming off and we get to listen to some variant of “separate but equal” or are we going to go even deeper into the racist rabbithole?

You were talking about yearning for a revelation in the same way those before 1978 yearned for a revelation.  Why am I somehow a racist because I asked what your prediction would be with regards to the Church and homosexuality?  I was interested in hearing your view of how that would happen but if you're going to start with the racism accusations, perhaps you're not worth discussing anything with.  

[JAHS]

1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

2 hours ago, mbh26 said:

I'll give you that.  I'm not forced to take my kids to Disney or allow them to watch the Disney channel, which we won't as long as there are gay characters kids movies.  Disney World is overpriced anyway.  But I am forced to buy into socialist public education.  And from the looks of it, what's stopping the government from forcing private schools to celebrate homosexuality?  The Tampa Bay Devil Rays are a private company. 

At what point would you predict a revelation from the brethren giving LGBTQ people the priesthood, solemnizing gay marriage in the temples, teaching homosexuality in primary etc. out of fear of losing the churchs tax exempt status, or outright governmental mandate in a similar way in which the priesthood was made available to all worthy males?  

Okay….factually wrong about how that happened and also deeply disturbing that you lament that change. Is the mask coming off and we get to listen to some variant of “separate but equal” or are we going to go even deeper into the racist rabbithole?

In my opinion the Church will never change because of the fear of losing tax exempt status. It will simply continue on without the tax exempt status.
Government pressure did not force the change in the priesthood. It was simply the right time for it and the need to do it because of the ever increasing population of African decent members joining the church; especially in Brazil.

[mbh26]

1 hour ago, ksfisher said:

What government mandate was involved here?  Although I was only 11 at the time of the revelation I don't recall any government threats.

I wasn't saying there was a government mandate.  I was just asking Nehor in particular what it might take for the brethren to receive a revelation to give practicing homosexuals the priesthood as they gave blacks the priesthood?  

[Chum]

On 6/7/2022 at 1:57 PM, smac97 said:

On 6/7/2022 at 1:32 PM, Chum said:

I think the spirit in this messaging doesn't well reflect the tone or tenor of Christ's ministry.

I don't know what this means.

That makes me a little sad. Christ's lifelong example - of directly lifting & sustaining those weaker and more vulnerable - was a powerful model of who we could be.

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, mbh26 said:

I wasn't saying there was a government mandate.  I was just asking Nehor in particular what it might take for the brethren to receive a revelation to give practicing homosexuals the priesthood as they gave blacks the priesthood?  

It would take God telling them.

[mbh26]

4 minutes ago, JAHS said:

In my opinion the Church will never change because of the fear of losing tax exempt status. It will simply continue on without the tax exempt status.
Government pressure did not force the change in the priesthood. It was simply the right time for it and the need to do it because of the ever increasing population of African decent members joining the church; especially in Brazil.

Do you think government pressure forced or even influenced the official proclamation ending the practice of plural marriage on earth?  

[mbh26]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

It would take God telling them.

But do you believe God will indeed or perhaps should instruct the brethren to do this in the future?  Is this what you're yearning for?  

[california boy]

1 hour ago, mbh26 said:

I'll give you that.  I'm not forced to take my kids to Disney or allow them to watch the Disney channel, which we won't as long as there are gay characters kids movies.  Disney World is overpriced anyway.  But I am forced to buy into socialist public education. 
 

Socialist public education?   Teaching tolerance, diversity and different points of views is a socialist idea?  If you feel that threatened by your children being exposed to those that are different from you, you could opt to home school.  
 

though I might point out that gay people were never talked about at my school growing up.  I am still gay.  That is something you can’t change no matter how much you want to erase those that are gay 

1 hour ago, mbh26 said:

And from the looks of it, what's stopping the government from forcing private schools to celebrate homosexuality?

slippery slope arguments are not really arguments 

1 hour ago, mbh26 said:

 

  The Tampa Bay Devil Rays are a private company

You do realize the government did not compel any player to wear a rainbow right?

 

1 hour ago, mbh26 said:

At what point would you predict a revelation from the brethren giving LGBTQ people the priesthood, solemnizing gay marriage in the temples, teaching homosexuality in primary etc. out of fear of losing the churchs tax exempt status, or outright governmental mandate in a similar way in which the priesthood was made available to all worthy males?  

I don’t predict or advocate for any changes in your church. That is up to those that run the church and how much its members will tolerate current policies.  Here in California things are not going well.  I got this text from my brother who is still an active member of the church.  
 

“Hello Peeps.  Reminder to get out and vote for the Californians.

I thought you may be interested to know the church continues to shrink in the Bay Area.  Last Sunday Hayward Stake merged with Fremont Stake and now only has one ward.  When I talked to Craig last month he said Fremont now only has one ward per building and his ward only gets 60 people out to Sacrament meeting.

I heard the Pleasanton Stake was dissolved into the Livermore Stake too.

Interesting times and more changes to come for sure.“

I am not saying that LGBT issues is the sole reason for the church shrinking in the Bay Area, but it is one of the main reasons sighted.  

[Chum]

On 6/7/2022 at 1:57 PM, smac97 said:

On 6/7/2022 at 1:32 PM, Chum said:

I mean, pummeling wasn't [Christ's] thing.

Pummel: "strike repeatedly with the fists."  Posting links and brief commentary on a message board cannot reasonably fit into this definition.

Oh. Let me share another awesome thing then.

On 6/7/2022 at 1:57 PM, smac97 said:

But perhaps you meant the "informal, North American" figurative use of "{to} criticize adversely."

Nah.

On 6/7/2022 at 1:57 PM, smac97 said:

I encourage you to read John 6

Thanks! Christ's example - to care for those without in such a way that it seems routine - is one I can always do better at.

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, mbh26 said:

But do you believe God will indeed or perhaps should instruct the brethren to do this in the future?  Is this what you're yearning for?  

I want more revelation on the matter. I have no idea what it will be. The current approach on the church end is largely soul-crushing to those dealing with it. It basically says just keep the commandments and it will all work out. How? No idea.

[Chum]

2 hours ago, mbh26 said:

But I am forced to buy into socialist public education.

Also into socialist highway system, socialist police system, socialist military...

[smac97]

10 minutes ago, Chum said:

Quote

 

Quote

I think the spirit in this messaging doesn't well reflect the tone or tenor of Christ's ministry.

I don't know what this means.

 

That makes me a little sad.

I don't know what this means, either.  You sharing your emotions does not illuminate your prior statement.

10 minutes ago, Chum said:

Christ's lifelong example - of directly lifting & sustaining those weaker and more vulnerable - was a powerful model of who we could be.

I don't know what you are referencing here, but you seem to be trying to chide me.  

Again, I think it's odd that you would take exception to me criticizing the sexualization and abuse of children.  

It would be nice if you quit playing coy and just said whatever it is you have in mind.  

Thanks,

-Smac

[SeekingUnderstanding]

1 minute ago, Chum said:

Also into socialist highway system, socialist police system, socialist military...

Sorry socialist only applies to programs I disagree with. And compelled speech only applies to speech I disagree with too. 🤷‍♂️

[smac97]

8 minutes ago, Chum said:

Oh. Let me share another awesome thing then.

Nah.

Still being coy.  

8 minutes ago, Chum said:

Thanks! Christ's example - to care for those without in such a way that it seems routine - is one I can always do better at.

Okay.

-Smac

[mbh26]

3 minutes ago, california boy said:

Socialist public education?   Teaching tolerance, diversity and different points of views is a socialist idea?  If you feel that threatened by your children being exposed to those that are different from you, you could opt to home school.  
 

though I might point out that gay people were never talked about at my school growing up.  I am still gay.  That is something you can’t change no matter how much you want to erase those that are gay 

slippery slope arguments are not really arguments 

You do realize the government did not compel any player to wear a rainbow right?

 

I don’t predict or advocate for any changes in your church. That is up to those that run the church and how much its members will tolerate current policies.  Here in California things are not going well.  I got this text from my brother who is still an active member of the church.  
 

“Hello Peeps.  Reminder to get out and vote for the Californians.

I thought you may be interested to know the church continues to shrink in the Bay Area.  Last Sunday Hayward Stake merged with Fremont Stake and now only has one ward.  When I talked to Craig last month he said Fremont now only has one ward per building and his ward only gets 60 people out to Sacrament meeting.

I heard the Pleasanton Stake was dissolved into the Livermore Stake too.

Interesting times and more changes to come for sure.“

I am not saying that LGBT issues is the sole reason for the church shrinking in the Bay Area, but it is one of the main reasons sighted.  

There was a good article from Breitbart that spoke of confusing tolerance with acceptance.  It was in response to Maryland public school teachers being bullied into putting a gay pride flag up in their classrooms.  Look I'm sorry for your struggles and I don't hate "gay" people.  I just don't want them teaching my kids to make the same choices they did.  And when society starts forcing people or private businesses to wear pride pins or lose their job, etc. that's way over line and in my opinion a violation of my civil rights and freedom of religion.  

 

[JAHS]

48 minutes ago, california boy said:

I thought you may be interested to know the church continues to shrink in the Bay Area.  Last Sunday Hayward Stake merged with Fremont Stake and now only has one ward.  When I talked to Craig last month he said Fremont now only has one ward per building and his ward only gets 60 people out to Sacrament meeting.

I heard the Pleasanton Stake was dissolved into the Livermore Stake too.

Interesting times and more changes to come for sure.“

I am not saying that LGBT issues is the sole reason for the church shrinking in the Bay Area, but it is one of the main reasons sighted.  

Could also mostly be the high cost of living in California. Just a few miles north/east in Vacaville our wards and stakes are bursting at the seems. 
But some are moving out because of the high cost of living. Gas prices are over $6.50/gallon now.

Edited June 8, 2022 by JAHS

[Scott Lloyd]

5 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

So only compelled speech when it’s speech you disagree with. Got it!

That is not a fair characterization of what I said.