Navidad Posted March 21, 2022 Author Share Posted March 21, 2022 15 minutes ago, Calm said: Mountain Meadow Massacre…a tragic and shameful incident in Mormon and American pioneer history….but the movie isn’t truthful though it claims to be. The best resource on it imo is though it doesn't cover the aftermath (the volume has been delayed, hopefully not forever). https://www.amazon.com/Massacre-Mountain-Meadows-American-Tragedy-ebook/dp/B004JU1WJ0 A collection of resources on it is here, from the Church’s bias of course: https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/mountain-meadows-massacre? If you are interested, perhaps Navidad can direct you to the best nonChurch member effort for a different perspective. There are, by the way some very interesting after-the-fact connections between MMM and the MMC (Mexican Mormon Colonies), where I live. To my knowledge no one has ever written about them. Maybe I have, I really don't remember! Ha! I have spoken about them here in the colonies to gatherings of my LDS friends. I have a talk I have given to LDS audiences on several occasions about "Characters in the Colonies." There were quite a few! 1 Link to comment
Orthodox Christian Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Navidad said: I won't and don't promote the movie. It is about MMM and is, as I remember horrible on several accounts. It is possible to buy the soundtrack separate from and without ever watching the movie. If I were to recommend anything, that would be what I would recommend and promote. I couldn't even tell you who wrote the music, let alone who wrote or directed the movie. Since high school I have enjoyed and listened to the music of St. Saens. I couldn't tell you one single thing about him (or her). When I was in seminary (graduate school) in Ft Worth in the very early 1970s I applied for and was hired to work in a funeral home. I soon earned extra money singing and preaching at funerals, especially if for some reason the person who was supposed to do that didn't show. I also became a licensed apprentice embalmer. My boss in that role invariably listened to country western music while performing that task. Being from a Mennonite background in Pennsylvania, I had never heard country western music. I will admit that once in a while to this day if I hear country western music from the 1970s my mind does drift back to some of those memories, obviously some of which were necessary, but not pleasant! So, the mind is indeed an interesting construct, the non-physical repository of our memory tapes. I am also very interested in the soul as the repository of the mind, will, and emotions - separate from the spirit. OK . . . enough meanderings! Best wishes to all. Ok, why is the film so horrible. Is it a new movie, then horrible compared to what? If it's an old movie then would we just shrug our shoulders and say, well actually it's quite tame by today's standards? A movie that I thought was horrible was Tom Hardy's Lawless, is it in that kind of league? Or is it horrible because it offends because it's not truthful as some have suggested? Edited March 21, 2022 by Orthodox Christian Link to comment
Popular Post Navidad Posted March 21, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 21, 2022 23 minutes ago, Orthodox Christian said: Ok, why is the film so horrible. Is it a new movie, then horrible compared to what? If it's an old movie then would we just shrug our shoulders and say, well actually it's quite tame by today's standards? A movie that I thought was horrible was Tom Hardy's Lawless, is it in that kind of league? Or is it horrible because it offends because it's not truthful as some have suggested? I guess each of us would have to answer that from our own individual perspective. For me, as I remember it the acting was terrible. The plot had nothing to do with actual events. It was far more fiction than history. I don't remember if it marketed itself as historical fiction or history, but it was just very poorly done. It tended to romanticize, stereotype, and obscure what was a very complicated and sad event. I do not recommend the movie. 5 Link to comment
cinepro Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) On 3/20/2022 at 8:08 AM, Emily said: Short of brain trauma, the mind doesn't really ever forget anything. A memory just gets buried when you don't have something refreshing the path to that memory. I'm sorry, but do you have a source for that claim? Memory is a well researched field, and I have an armchair-interest in it and haven't found any memory researchers that would agree with that statement. Quote A growing body of work, cultivated in the past decade, suggests that the loss of memories is not a passive process. Rather, forgetting seems to be an active mechanism that is constantly at work in the brain. In some — perhaps even all — animals, the brain’s standard state is not to remember, but to forget. And a better understanding of that state could lead to breakthroughs in treatments for conditions such as anxiety, post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), and even Alzheimer’s disease. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-02211-5 Quote "Our memory is not an accurate snapshot of our experiences. We can't remember everything," said Daphna Shohamy, senior study author and principal investigator at Columbia's Mortimer B. Zuckerman Mind Brain Behavior Institute and a professor in the Department of Psychology. "One way the brain solves this problem is by automatically filtering our experiences, preserving memories of important information and allowing the rest fade away." https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/11/181120125916.htm Edited March 21, 2022 by cinepro 3 Link to comment
Calm Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 So kern, long time lurker or did you just randomly stop by? (I couldn’t remember your name, so thought I’d review your posts to remind me) Link to comment
Calm Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) Not a massively well known composer, but a respectable number of titles and awards. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ross_(composer)#Grammy_Awards And not bad, thanks for the link, kern. Edited March 22, 2022 by Calm Link to comment
gmormon Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 19 hours ago, Calm said: .... The best resource on it imo is though it doesn't cover the aftermath (the volume has been delayed, hopefully not forever). https://www.amazon.com/Massacre-Mountain-Meadows-American-Tragedy-ebook/dp/B004JU1WJ0 A collection of resources on it is here, from the Church’s bias of course: https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/mountain-meadows-massacre? If you are interested, perhaps Navidad can direct you to the best nonChurch member effort for a different perspective. I read an article just recently in the Deseret News that Bro Turley and a woman from the MHA, ? I believe-l will look for that article? where working on the follow-up book 1 Link to comment
caspianrex Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 23 hours ago, Navidad said: It is possible to buy the soundtrack separate from and without ever watching the movie. Or just to listen to it on YouTube Music: YouTube Music 2 Link to comment
Kenngo1969 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) 13 hours ago, gmormon said: I read an article just recently in the Deseret News that Bro Turley and a woman from the MHA, ? I believe-l will look for that article? where working on the follow-up book We Cyber see you too seldom! Why is that?!* I suppose we simply must treasure our all-too-infrequent interactions with you, then! __________ *What, you mean to tell me that you have better things to do than post with any level of frequency on this board? Why, that's just crazy talk! (And now, since this has been up for 13 hours, you've gone back into "lurk" mode or "peek-in-once-a-year" mode, and probably won't even see this! Ah, well! It was fun while it lasted!) Edited March 22, 2022 by Kenngo1969 2 Link to comment
Scott Lloyd Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 14 hours ago, gmormon said: I read an article just recently in the Deseret News that Bro Turley and a woman from the MHA, ? I believe-l will look for that article? where working on the follow-up book The woman is Barbara Jones Brown, currently executive director of the Mormon History Association. She was, I believe, a research assistant on the first book, so she is well versed in the project. This is neither here nor there, but she is the wife of Matt Brown, longtime Deseret News staffer. Of Brother Turley’s two co-authors on the first book, Ron Walker has passed away and Glen Leonard, I’m guessing, would rather not come out of retirement to be involved in the upcoming volume. Will Bagley, author of Blood of the Prophets, has died as well. 1 Link to comment
gmormon Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 29 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: The woman is Barbara Jones Brown, currently executive director of the Mormon History Association. She was, I believe, a research assistant on the first book, so she is well versed in the project. This is neither here nor there, but she is the wife of Matt Brown, longtime Deseret News staffer. Of Brother Turley’s two co-authors on the first book, Ron Walker has passed away and Glen Leonard, I’m guessing, would rather not come out of retirement to be involved in the upcoming volume. Will Bagley, author of Blood of the Prophets, has died as well. Where you able to find the article? Link to comment
gmormon Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said: We Cyber see you too seldom! Why is that?!* I suppose we simply must treasure our all-too-infrequent interactions with you, then! __________ *What, you mean to tell me that you have better things to do than post with any level of frequency on this board? Why, that's just crazy talk! (And now, since this has been up for 13 hours, you've gone back into "lurk" mode or "peek-in-once-a-year" mode, and probably won't even see this! Ah, well! It was fun while it lasted!) I'm more interested in history of the church than i am of the on goings of the alphabets.... And i am not a good enough scriptorium to delve into interpretations there of Edited March 22, 2022 by gmormon Link to comment
Scott Lloyd Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, gmormon said: Where you able to find the article? I read it, but I didn’t bother looking for it just now. I already knew well enough that Barbara Jones Brown is the co-author. I’ve known it for some time. I’m personally acquainted with Rick Turley and Matt Brown. I don’t think I’ve met Barbara, but I’m well aware of her, having attended a number of MHA conferences. 1 Link to comment
gmormon Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said: I read it, but I didn’t bother looking for it just now. I already knew well enough that Barbara Jones Brown is the co-author. I’ve known it for some time. I’m personally acquainted with Rick Turley and Matt Brown. I don’t think I’ve met Barbara, but I’m well aware of her, having attended a number of MHA conferences. I hope they don't take to long... Link to comment
Scott Lloyd Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, gmormon said: I hope they don't take to long... It has already been more than a decade. I don’t think they’re in a hurry. Rick Turley is retired now, so I assume he has time. But he did take time to write the recently published biography of Dallin H. Oaks. Edited March 23, 2022 by Scott Lloyd Link to comment
Calm Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) https://gospeltangents.com/2020/12/turley-mountain-meadows-massacre/ from Dec 2020: Quote For those who remain interested in the topic, I will say, for this audience, that the draft of the book is done. But as was the case with the first volume, it’s too large to meet the page count for Oxford. So, Barbara and I are currently working on trimming it down to get it within the page count so that it can be published, which we hope to do by the end of this year. The book is “forthcoming” here(very bottom): https://www.deseret.com/2022/2/27/22937404/legacy-of-the-most-prominent-political-family-in-the-west-rex-lee-mike-lee-stewart-udall-mo-udall Edited March 22, 2022 by Calm Link to comment
gmormon Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 23 minutes ago, Calm said: https://gospeltangents.com/2020/12/turley-mountain-meadows-massacre/ from Dec 2020: The book is “forthcoming” here(very bottom): https://www.deseret.com/2022/2/27/22937404/legacy-of-the-most-prominent-political-family-in-the-west-rex-lee-mike-lee-stewart-udall-mo-udall Thanks for the info and that's the article thanks again 1 Link to comment
Navidad Posted March 23, 2022 Author Share Posted March 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: The woman is Barbara Jones Brown, currently executive director of the Mormon History Association. She was, I believe, a research assistant on the first book, so she is well versed in the project. This is neither here nor there, but she is the wife of Matt Brown, longtime Deseret News staffer. Of Brother Turley’s two co-authors on the first book, Ron Walker has passed away and Glen Leonard, I’m guessing, would rather not come out of retirement to be involved in the upcoming volume. Will Bagley, author of Blood of the Prophets, has died as well. If my friends Rick Turley and Barbara Jones Brown are involved, it will be a quality product. I can't wait to read it. Link to comment
Scott Lloyd Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Calm said: https://gospeltangents.com/2020/12/turley-mountain-meadows-massacre/ from Dec 2020: The book is “forthcoming” here(very bottom): https://www.deseret.com/2022/2/27/22937404/legacy-of-the-most-prominent-political-family-in-the-west-rex-lee-mike-lee-stewart-udall-mo-udall I just spent five minutes scrolling through the link and didn’t find that quote. Is it in the comments section? Added later: Never mind. I was looking at the wrong link. Edited March 23, 2022 by Scott Lloyd Link to comment
Tacenda Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: I read it, but I didn’t bother looking for it just now. I already knew well enough that Barbara Jones Brown is the co-author. I’ve known it for some time. I’m personally acquainted with Rick Turley and Matt Brown. I don’t think I’ve met Barbara, but I’m well aware of her, having attended a number of MHA conferences. Glen Leonard was my Stake President years ago, my friend did his wife's hair. I was there one day when he brought her to my friend's salon. And she had Alzheimer's or some kind of dementia. I was quite impressed at how well he took care of his sweet wife. I wonder if she's passed on or not. Link to comment
Calm Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 36 minutes ago, Tacenda said: Glen Leonard was my Stake President years ago, my friend did his wife's hair. I was there one day when he brought her to my friend's salon. And she had Alzheimer's or some kind of dementia. I was quite impressed at how well he took care of his sweet wife. I wonder if she's passed on or not. Thinking this is her: https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/deseretnews/name/karen-leonard-obituary?id=1622182 Link to comment
Tacenda Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 10 hours ago, Calm said: Thinking this is her: https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/deseretnews/name/karen-leonard-obituary?id=1622182 That's her, I tried finding an obit yesterday and couldn't locate it. Thanks Calm! I read through and she taught at the school (kindergartner) I went to at the same time I believe. Or close to it. I probably ran into her at different functions while being in the same stake when I was a younger mother. Link to comment
Navidad Posted March 23, 2022 Author Share Posted March 23, 2022 16 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: The woman is Barbara Jones Brown, currently executive director of the Mormon History Association. She was, I believe, a research assistant on the first book, so she is well versed in the project. This is neither here nor there, but she is the wife of Matt Brown, longtime Deseret News staffer. Of Brother Turley’s two co-authors on the first book, Ron Walker has passed away and Glen Leonard, I’m guessing, would rather not come out of retirement to be involved in the upcoming volume. Will Bagley, author of Blood of the Prophets, has died as well. Hi Scott: Barbara is no longer executive director of MHA. They have been seeking a new director. I think they found someone, but I am not sure of her name. FWIW 1 Link to comment
Scott Lloyd Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 9 hours ago, Navidad said: Hi Scott: Barbara is no longer executive director of MHA. They have been seeking a new director. I think they found someone, but I am not sure of her name. FWIW Thanks. I don’t follow MHA as I used to. I know they seem to have a fairly frequent turnover in that position. Perhaps finishing up the Mountain Meadows book is occupying much of her time these days. Link to comment
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