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Heard from a friend that Seminary teachers should be paid. I wouldn't be comfortable with that


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On 3/6/2022 at 11:23 AM, nuclearfuels said:

My friend suggested: If one person gets paid for it, everyone shoudl get paid for it - even if it's 1/5th or 1/6th of what full time CES-trained and hired teachers earn.

Would there be back-pay (preferably with interest) for former Seminary teachers?

Asking for a friend...

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4 hours ago, Chum said:

Adding here that bishops aren't dedicated sermonizers. Most Sunday talks are done by rank-n-file members. That goes with the notion that most Church responsibilities aren't attached to related training.

I know, I don't envy them nor the ones on the Trinitarian end.  The workload on top of the constant complaining, politics etc.  From what i've heard LDS bishops have similar issues minus the pressure of say, a Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopal etc. Bishop has, the weight of the world can be on their shoulders at times.  The whole parish is watching you, hard pass from me.  My hat off to anyone who bears that cross, especially considering how polarized the Christian religion in the USA is nowadays.  Clergy are at the breaking point, just like a lot of other folks.  

Edited by poptart
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12 hours ago, Tacenda said:

https://kutv.com/news/local/mormonleaks-web-page-posts-information-about-living-allowance-of-lds-general-authorities#:~:text=Local clergy in The Church,and receive the living allowance.

General Authorities leave their careers when they are called into full time Church service. When they do so, they focus all of their time on serving the Church, and are given a living allowance. The living allowance is uniform for all General Authorities. None of the funds for this living allowance come from the tithing of Church members, but instead from proceeds of the Church's financial investments.

We have no idea where these funds come from because the church is not transparent with the donations they receive.

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6 hours ago, Chum said:

I had never heard of a paid stake/ward calling until this thread. I'm in non-Utah though. Perhaps dynamics are different where the Saints are thicker.

My mom was in TN when she did early morning seminary and was "paid", but again, she was told then it was a job they wanted her to apply for.

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9 hours ago, Rain said:

My mom was in TN when she did early morning seminary and was "paid", but again, she was told then it was a job they wanted her to apply for.

Lots of confirmation here this has been a paid calling, all of it surprising to me.  My assumption was strong that paid stake/ward callings weren't ever a thing in the modern Church.

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On 3/6/2022 at 3:30 PM, rpn said:

At the present time, full time seminary teachers who teach at seminary located in a state that grants hs credit for the class are paid (and because that requires teacher credentials for the state) and of course they should be paid.

Emphasis mine. Are there states that grant high school credit for seminary? I know that in Utah students are "released" to go to seminary, but they don't receive high school credit.

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23 hours ago, Tacenda said:

https://kutv.com/news/local/mormonleaks-web-page-posts-information-about-living-allowance-of-lds-general-authorities#:~:text=Local clergy in The Church,and receive the living allowance.

General Authorities leave their careers when they are called into full time Church service. When they do so, they focus all of their time on serving the Church, and are given a living allowance. The living allowance is uniform for all General Authorities. None of the funds for this living allowance come from the tithing of Church members, but instead from proceeds of the Church's financial investments.

There is a legal disclaimer at the bottom of the tithing slip that basically gives the Church permission to do whatever it wants with any donation.

"Though reasonable efforts will be made to use donations as designated, all donations become the Church's property and will be used at the Church's sole discretion to further the Church's overall mission."

Lawyers correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the quoted disclaimer has more legal standing than a press release.

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On 3/6/2022 at 2:07 PM, 2BizE said:

Why should early morning seminary teachers not get paid? Full time teachers do.  
Also, why did they stop paying Bishops and SPs? They should still get money for all of the time thy put in.

Traditionally they have been paid. Over 60 years ago my father was the first early morning seminary teacher in our stake. He received a stipend. Which he refused. 

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On 3/7/2022 at 9:49 AM, Tacenda said:

mission presidents get paid

Do mission presidents get paid?

I honestly don't know

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On 3/6/2022 at 10:06 PM, Moneymaking said:

I’d have to be a bishop though and that is a solid “no way.”

That which must be, shall be :)

No escaping destiny

 

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On 3/7/2022 at 10:46 PM, Bob Crockett said:

I was a seminary teacher (early morning) for nine years and loved every minute of it.   Having said that I think Seminaries and Institutes ought to be abolished.

Curious about your abolitinist views. 

Is it the early morning or the impact less sleep or not enough sleep might have on some students - in high school?

 

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1 hour ago, nuclearfuels said:

Do mission presidents get paid?

I honestly don't know

Yes, they are paid a salary (or a "stipend," for those who want to split semantic hairs). All expenses are covered or reimbursed as well. 

55 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

Curious about your abolitionist views [about CES]

A former stake presidency member (and mission presidency member) is a CES seminary teacher and principal. I asked him about this, and he thinks it's likely that seminary and institute will eventually be abolished, beginning with institute first. To him, it's just the trajectory things are on. Which is odd, given the exponentially increasing inactivity and apostasy of teenagers and young adults. One would think that the Church would still see CES as an important bulwark with this problem. As it is, seminary is quite different from when we were in it (lowered expectations).

My college-age kids (three next year) love their institute classes and the camaraderie associated with it (granted, the institute is closely enmeshed with the student wards as well). I'm not sure what the Church would replace it with instead. I think independent study would die on the vine. 

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29 minutes ago, rongo said:

Yes, they are paid a salary (or a "stipend," for those who want to split semantic hairs). All expenses are covered or reimbursed as well. 

A former stake presidency member (and mission presidency member) is a CES seminary teacher and principal. I asked him about this, and he thinks it's likely that seminary and institute will eventually be abolished, beginning with institute first. To him, it's just the trajectory things are on. Which is odd, given the exponentially increasing inactivity and apostasy of teenagers and young adults. One would think that the Church would still see CES as an important bulwark with this problem. As it is, seminary is quite different from when we were in it (lowered expectations).

My college-age kids (three next year) love their institute classes and the camaraderie associated with it (granted, the institute is closely enmeshed with the student wards as well). I'm not sure what the Church would replace it with instead. I think independent study would die on the vine. 

I would think they need seminaries in order for missionaries to proselyte in certain countries that require having gone to an institute of religion.

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2 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

Do mission presidents get paid?

I honestly don't know

I was wrong, they get their living expenses paid. 

80
Appendix B 
Family Finances
Monthly
Reimbursement of
Living Expenses
While you are serving as mission president, the Church reimburses the necessary living ex-
penses for you, your wife, and your dependent children. Dependent children are defined as
those who are under age 26, have not been married, and are not employed full-time. Living
expenses include food, clothing, household supplies, family activities, dry cleaning, per-
sonal long-distance calls to family, and modest gifts (for example, Christmas, birthdays, or
anniversary).
In addition, the following are provided or reimbursed:
• Medical expenses—including dental and eye care, but not orthodontics or elective or cos-
metic surgery—if not covered by personal health insurance. In unusual situations when or-
thodontic care is needed, consult with the Missionary Department (801-240-3070). If you
have dependent children living away from home in the United States who need medical
treatment, you should consult Missionary Medical in advance (800-777-1647 or 801-578-
5650). Missionary Medical can assist in arranging treatment and monitoring the situation.
• Support for children serving full-time missions, when requested.
• One round trip for each unmarried child under age 26 to visit you in the mission if he or
she did not accompany you to the field.
• Elementary and secondary school expenses for tuition, fees, books, and materials. Reasonable
expenses for extracurricular activities and for music or dance lessons may be reimbursed.
• Undergraduate tuition at an accredited college or university that offers two- or four-year
degrees. Tuition is waived at Church-owned schools. Tuition at other schools is reimbursed
after the classes have been successfully completed. The tuition reimbursement will not ex-
ceed the equivalent of current tuition at Brigham Young University, regardless of the actual
tuition cost. Students must meet the same standards for enrollment as others; the
Missionary Department does not facilitate acceptance into Church-owned schools.
The following higher-education expenses are not reimbursed: college application fees, college
entrance exams, preparatory or remedial classes (or English for the TOEFL exam), nontuition
fees, books, expenses for graduate degrees, and similar expenses.
The amount of any funds reimbursed to you should be kept strictly confidential and should
not be discussed with missionaries, other mission presidents, friends, or family members.
For any questions regarding your family finances, the education of your children, or the
change of a child’s status because of a mission call, marriage, graduation, or full-time em-
ployment, please call the Missionary Department (801-240-3070).
Joint Bank 
Account
A joint personal bank account at Church headquarters is established for you and your wife.
Your monthly reimbursements are deposited into this account, which can be accessed by a
debit card, electronic transfers, or regular checking. Other arrangements may be made for
mission presidents from outside the United States who are serving in countries with different
legal requirements.
You should not open a local bank account for personal funds received from the Church unless
absolutely necessary, especially if the account would produce interest (and thus raise income-
tax questions). Contact the Missionary Department (801-240-3070) or the area administration
office for guidance if you believe a local bank account is needed.

Edited by Tacenda
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When my younger sisters were of seminary age, our Stake President said, "No way no how" to early morning seminary in our stake in Washington state.  Kids met on a Friday evening.  They seemed to all  do well in the Church.  Apparently, stakes have the ability to opt out.

I have enjoyed my relationships with the S&I directors who managed us seminary teachers, but I found the directors with few exceptions don't have the right attitude about church service and what the church means.  Rather, they tend to be self aggrandizing and not all that knowledgeable about church history and doctrine.  It's all  about them and their personalities.  I think Brad Wilcox is a great guy but I see a little of that there.

When I was a bishop a high councilor was scheduled to speak.  He was an S&I director.  Before the meeting started he chewed me out, telling me that the wards don't give high councilors enough time to speak.  I asked him to look at the program and lo and behold he was the only speaker on the program; he hadn't even looked.  But he really laid into me before that.   I have also found S&I directors to be rather ignorant fellows.   In one bi-weekly seminar, our director asked us all to state our favorite Biblical character.  I mentioned Mordecai.  He had never heard of him and couldn't spell his name.  

Edited by Bob Crockett
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On 3/10/2022 at 9:48 AM, rongo said:

A former stake presidency member (and mission presidency member) is a CES seminary teacher and principal. I asked him about this, and he thinks it's likely that seminary and institute will eventually be abolished, beginning with institute first.

I think more likely it will expand, at least in options.

https://www.thechurchnews.com/members/2022-03-13/innovate-institute-students-share-how-and-why-its-working-245930

Quote

Research conducted with more than 1,000 young adults across the globe revealed four areas where institute could be strengthened: relevance, belonging and purpose, accessibility, and conversion. 

Several ideas within the four areas have been tested in recent years, and ideas that have proven most successful are being rolled out in areas across the world. These include remodeling classrooms, offering new courses, inviting peer-to-peer conversations and focusing on students’ needs. 

 

Edited by Calm
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