BYU Decision to Deny Speech Services to Transgender Clients

[kimpearson]

Here is a statement from the American Speech-Language-Hearing Association that you might have some thoughts on.

https://www.asha.org/news/2022/asha-statement-on-brigham-young-university-administration-decision-to-deny-speech-services-for-transgender-clients/?fbclid=IwAR3Vq6Emvy3VuIYWCSl1BSLV2xhPfzDGMNRqoJUqCAHxcEyZCZoAuO049RU

 

ASHA Statement On Brigham Young University Administration Decision To Deny Speech Services for Transgender Clients

 

 

February 11, 2022

(Rockville, MD) The decision by the Brigham Young University (BYU) administration to require their Department of Communication Disorders to end all voice and communication services at its Speech and Language Clinic for transgender clients is in direct opposition to practice expected of American Speech-Language-Hearing Association (ASHA) members and contrary to the ASHA Code of Ethics (2016).

ASHA recognizes gender affirming voice and communication services for transgender and gender diverse populations within the speech-language pathology scope of practice. ASHA members provide vital clinical services to gender diverse populations who may have voice or other speech-language disorders unrelated to their gender, as well as services to individuals whose voices do not reflect their gender. Transgender individuals who attempt to modify their voice without a trained speech-language pathologist, risk permanent damage to their vocal cords; and without appropriate services are an increased risk for related mental health challenges. Ensuring treatment for all individuals in need of speech, language, hearing, and related services—including transgender individuals—is consistent with ASHA’s Code of Ethics.

Principle I, Rule C of the ASHA Code of Ethics states the following: “Individuals shall not discriminate in the delivery of professional services or in the conduct of research and scholarly activities on the basis of race, ethnicity, sex, gender identity/gender expression, sexual orientation, age, religion, national origin, disability, culture, language or dialect.” Therefore, BYU is putting its certified speech-language pathologists (CCC-SLPs) in an untenable position. These employees are now being directed to act in a manner contrary to their responsibilities under the ASHA Code of Ethics.

ASHA strongly believes the principles set forth in the Code of Ethics, including Principle I, Rule C, are considered essential to the practice of speech-language pathology. BYU’s decision can in no way be supported or justified by the ASHA Code of Ethics.

There are areas of concern to be addressed. For the university to take such action, the transgender clients’ protected health information would have been provided to the BYU Administration, which is a violation of the HIPAA Privacy Rule. The Rule requires appropriate safeguards to protect the privacy of protected health information and sets limits and conditions on the uses and disclosures that may be made of such information without an individual’s authorization.

BYU’s decision does not align with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ policies and guidelines. According to section 38.6.23 of the General Handbook: Serving in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, “transgender individuals face complex challenges. Members and nonmembers who identify as transgender—and their family and friends—should be treated with sensitivity, kindness, compassion, and an abundance of Christlike love.”

Moreover, the General Handbook acknowledges and provides latitude for other forms of medical care to be provided to transgender individuals. Section 38.6.23 of the General Handbook states, “some children, youth, and adults are prescribed hormone therapy by a licensed medical professional to ease gender dysphoria or reduce suicidal thoughts.” It is incongruous that voice and communication services would be singled out for elimination, especially with the positive impact of gender affirming practices.

The master's MS education program in speech-language pathology at Brigham Young University is accredited by the Council on Academic Accreditation in Audiology and Speech-Language Pathology (CAA). The CAA’s accreditation standards require academic programs provide content and opportunities for students to learn to practice in a manner consistent with recognized standards of ethical practice and relevant federal and state regulations, and that students are prepared to understand the health care and education landscapes and how to facilitate access to services.

Students graduating from CAA-accredited programs must understand the impact of their cultural and linguistic variables on the delivery of effective care, along with the impact of those variables for their clients. CAA-accredited programs must ensure students show evidence of care, compassion, and appropriate empathy during interactions with everyone served.

ASHA strongly urges Brigham Young University to adhere to ASHA’s Code of Ethics as well as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints’ policies and guidelines cited above; reverse its decision; and restore voice and communication services for transgender clients.

ASHA Resources

ASHA Code of Ethics (2016)

Supporting and Working With Transgender and Gender-Diverse Individuals

Voice and Communication Services for Transgender and Gender Diverse Populations

About the American Speech-Language-Hearing Association (ASHA)
ASHA is the national professional, scientific, and credentialing association for 218,000 members and affiliates who are audiologists; speech-language pathologists; speech, language, and hearing scientists; audiology and speech-language pathology support personnel; and students. Audiologists specialize in preventing and assessing hearing and balance disorders as well as providing audiologic treatment, including hearing aids. Speech-language pathologists (SLPs) identify, assess, and treat speech, language, and swallowing disorders.

[sunstoned]

BYU's actions are very disappointing.

[Stormin' Mormon]

From what I'm reading, it's not that BYU has ended all services for transgender clients (which the ASHA statement implies in its opening paragraph), but rather it is ending gender affirming voice therapy (meant to help clients match their voice to the gender they identify as). 

Quote

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, has decided to end all gender-affirming speech therapies because providing them doesn’t align with the faith’s policies. Transgender clients often use those services to help match the tone and pitch of their voice to their gender identity.

So, my question is: should a church, any church, be required to provide services that run counter to its own doctrine? 

[bsjkki]

I had asked on another thread exactly what services are the problem. You never explained. Could you explain?

[Durangout]

16 hours ago, kimpearson said:

Here is a statement from the American Speech-Language-Hearing Association that you might have some thoughts on.

https://www.asha.org/news/2022/asha-statement-on-brigham-young-university-administration-decision-to-deny-speech-services-for-transgender-clients/?fbclid=IwAR3Vq6Emvy3VuIYWCSl1BSLV2xhPfzDGMNRqoJUqCAHxcEyZCZoAuO049RU

 

ASHA Statement On Brigham Young University Administration Decision To Deny Speech Services for Transgender Clients

 

 

February 11, 2022

(Rockville, MD) The decision by the Brigham Young University (BYU) administration to require their Department of Communication Disorders to end all voice and communication services at its Speech and Language Clinic for transgender clients is in direct opposition to practice expected of American Speech-Language-Hearing Association (ASHA) members and contrary to the ASHA Code of Ethics (2016).

ASHA recognizes gender affirming voice and communication services for transgender and gender diverse populations within the speech-language pathology scope of practice. ASHA members provide vital clinical services to gender diverse populations who may have voice or other speech-language disorders unrelated to their gender, as well as services to individuals whose voices do not reflect their gender. Transgender individuals who attempt to modify their voice without a trained speech-language pathologist, risk permanent damage to their vocal cords; and without appropriate services are an increased risk for related mental health challenges. Ensuring treatment for all individuals in need of speech, language, hearing, and related services—including transgender individuals—is consistent with ASHA’s Code of Ethics.

Principle I, Rule C of the ASHA Code of Ethics states the following: “Individuals shall not discriminate in the delivery of professional services or in the conduct of research and scholarly activities on the basis of race, ethnicity, sex, gender identity/gender expression, sexual orientation, age, religion, national origin, disability, culture, language or dialect.” Therefore, BYU is putting its certified speech-language pathologists (CCC-SLPs) in an untenable position. These employees are now being directed to act in a manner contrary to their responsibilities under the ASHA Code of Ethics.

ASHA strongly believes the principles set forth in the Code of Ethics, including Principle I, Rule C, are considered essential to the practice of speech-language pathology. BYU’s decision can in no way be supported or justified by the ASHA Code of Ethics.

There are areas of concern to be addressed. For the university to take such action, the transgender clients’ protected health information would have been provided to the BYU Administration, which is a violation of the HIPAA Privacy Rule. The Rule requires appropriate safeguards to protect the privacy of protected health information and sets limits and conditions on the uses and disclosures that may be made of such information without an individual’s authorization.

BYU’s decision does not align with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ policies and guidelines. According to section 38.6.23 of the General Handbook: Serving in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, “transgender individuals face complex challenges. Members and nonmembers who identify as transgender—and their family and friends—should be treated with sensitivity, kindness, compassion, and an abundance of Christlike love.”

Moreover, the General Handbook acknowledges and provides latitude for other forms of medical care to be provided to transgender individuals. Section 38.6.23 of the General Handbook states, “some children, youth, and adults are prescribed hormone therapy by a licensed medical professional to ease gender dysphoria or reduce suicidal thoughts.” It is incongruous that voice and communication services would be singled out for elimination, especially with the positive impact of gender affirming practices.

The master's MS education program in speech-language pathology at Brigham Young University is accredited by the Council on Academic Accreditation in Audiology and Speech-Language Pathology (CAA). The CAA’s accreditation standards require academic programs provide content and opportunities for students to learn to practice in a manner consistent with recognized standards of ethical practice and relevant federal and state regulations, and that students are prepared to understand the health care and education landscapes and how to facilitate access to services.

Students graduating from CAA-accredited programs must understand the impact of their cultural and linguistic variables on the delivery of effective care, along with the impact of those variables for their clients. CAA-accredited programs must ensure students show evidence of care, compassion, and appropriate empathy during interactions with everyone served.

ASHA strongly urges Brigham Young University to adhere to ASHA’s Code of Ethics as well as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints’ policies and guidelines cited above; reverse its decision; and restore voice and communication services for transgender clients.

ASHA Resources

ASHA Code of Ethics (2016)

Supporting and Working With Transgender and Gender-Diverse Individuals

Voice and Communication Services for Transgender and Gender Diverse Populations

About the American Speech-Language-Hearing Association (ASHA)
ASHA is the national professional, scientific, and credentialing association for 218,000 members and affiliates who are audiologists; speech-language pathologists; speech, language, and hearing scientists; audiology and speech-language pathology support personnel; and students. Audiologists specialize in preventing and assessing hearing and balance disorders as well as providing audiologic treatment, including hearing aids. Speech-language pathologists (SLPs) identify, assess, and treat speech, language, and swallowing disorders.

This is fantastic news.  Maybe there is some hope for BYU yet.

[MrShorty]

49 minutes ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

So, my question is: should a church, any church, be required to provide services that run counter to its own doctrine? 

Is ASHA calling for "the Church" to provide these services, or is it calling for a clinic and educational program accreditated (for now) by the CAA to adhere to industry ethical standards when deciding what services to provide? My reading of the document doesn't suggest that the Church ought to provide these services, but that an accredited institution providing clinical and educational services ought to provide these services.

Another question raised by ASHA's use of the CHI -- is the Church opposed to professionals provided or individuals seeking these services? As ASHA notes, the CHI specifically mentions hormone therapy as acceptable, why should speech and voice therapy services that ease gender dysphoria be treated differently from hormone therapy?

[juliann]

As an ASHA certified specialist, I'm interested in this for reasons aside from the moral implications. [ Disclaimer: I despise ASHA. Like teahcer unions, it is a forced membership political org]

So, some background:

• There aren't enough SLP grad programs, they are very hard to get into and there aren't enough SLPs. ASHA working to take out one is....interesting.
• Acquiring your CCCs from ASHA is an individual process, you take a test.  
• I would never go to a university clinic for something serious, you get therapy from a clueless student. 
• SLP services are so ridiculously broad there is no way you can be qualified for all of it, let alone be trained for it. It is more of an art than science in most areas. 

It's been a loooong time since I was in grad school, but at that time going outside of your natural pitch was the disorder, not the fix. So I need more education to understand why this is now safe and healthy. 

For anyone wanting to have a discussion, you need to know what is involved  https://transcare.ucsf.edu/guidelines/vocal-health

Quote

 

 It is important that a comprehensive voice evaluation is completed, including voice and communication needs related to gender transition, by a laryngologist and voice trained speech pathologist prior to initiating voice treatment. Evaluation should include a thorough laryngeal examination including videostroboscopy to assess the anatomy and physiology of structures related to voice production.

-----

The overarching treatment goal for transgender people who present with voice and communication complaints is to aid in achieving a gender congruent voice in an efficient and safe manner. Treatment should be patient specific and can be accomplished through behavioral and medical/surgical intervention.

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by juliann

[Calm]

I had a singing teacher for a year or so as a young teen; he was older, small and intense, very old school, Eastern European and fit the stereotype of the very precise and fussy instructor perfectly though not abusive…guilt tripper though. Mom met him through some organ thing or possibly when he was doing witnessing as he was a Jehovah Witness and lived around the corner.  She found out he was trying to establish himself as a singing teacher as he was newcomer to the area. He gave Mom a good two for one special (me and my older sister, the natural performer) because his schedule wasn’t filled yet. Scared me enough that I was a worse singer after that year or so than before.  Scared as in he would let me know I was always failing. I am an introvert and hate performing. I don’t have a clue why my parents thought this would be a good thing. Maybe they thought it would help me be less shy. Backfire big time.  He had us doing classical pieces that I hated and I didn’t handle his type of criticism well, so my throat and muscles tightened up and it just got worse and worse because even though he was a good man, he like I said scared me and that doesn’t work well with singing.

Anyway, he had trained a rockstar or two in the past who had come to him after damaging their vocal cords by yelling rather than projecting, etc….I don’t really remember the details even if he supplied a lot, including pictures…he went on and on about how different voices can be destructive vs powerful even in speaking. (I think his pushing the rockstars instead of the opera singers he also trained was his way of trying connect with us youth).

When I first heard of this limitation of BYU services, that is what I thought of.  The idea of being taught to speak in altered ways that could easily irritate your physical structure if not spot on…there is no way that someone inexperienced in speech therapy should be doing this work in my very uneducated opinion. And my bet is the supervisors at BYU have very limited training in this area themselves, if any (if older, there is a good chance they never even had any specific training for transitioning speech changes, I am guessing).  It feels like they are asking physical therapists in training to work with war amputees instead of the broken leg or sore neck from sleeping on the stomach I went to the student health clinic for (and I didn’t get treated by a student now I think about it).  I highly doubt when a football player injures themselves playing, the coach sends them to the student health clinic for treatment. Honestly, my guess is BYU would be doing them a favor by not setting them up with bad habits because the therapists don’t know how to do it best because it is the reverse of how they usually teach people.  My singing teacher may have had all the professional training typically expected working with the voice, but he wasn’t trained to work with kids and my throat going tight halfway through a hymn now is the result.  Specialized training is important.

Maybe the voice is not as delicate a tool as my singing teacher conveyed, but he certainly convinced me not to go around belting out showtunes just for fun.  Or maybe speech therapy is different enough I am way off base…very convenient to have Juliann here to tell me if my minuscule experience with singing is at all relevant to the current situation.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Calm

[juliann]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

I had a singing teacher for a year or so as a young teen; he was older, small and intense, very old school, Eastern European and fit the stereotype of the very precise and fussy instructor perfectly though not abusive…guilt tripper though. Mom met him through some organ thing or possibly when he was doing witnessing as he was a Jehovah Witness and lived around the corner.  She found out he was trying to establish himself as a singing teacher as he was newcomer to the area. He gave Mom a good two for one special (me and my older sister, the natural performer) because his schedule wasn’t filled yet. Scared me enough that I was a worse singer after that year or so than before.  Scared as in he would let me know I was always failing. I am an introvert and hate performing. I don’t have a clue why my parents thought this would be a good thing. Maybe they thought it would help me be less shy. Backfire big time.  He had us doing classical pieces that I hated and I didn’t handle his type of criticism well, so my throat and muscles tightened up and it just got worse and worse because even though he was a good man, he like I said scared me and that doesn’t work well with singing.

Anyway, he had trained a rockstar or two in the past who had come to him after damaging their vocal cords by yelling rather than projecting, etc….I don’t really remember the details even if he supplied a lot, including pictures…he went on and on about how different voices can be destructive vs powerful even in speaking. (I think his pushing the rockstars instead of the opera singers he also trained was his way of trying connect with us youth).

When I first heard of this limitation of BYU services, that is what I thought of.  The idea of being taught to speak in altered ways that could easily irritate your physical structure if not spot on…there is no way that someone inexperienced in speech therapy should be doing this work in my very uneducated opinion. And my bet is the supervisors at BYU have very limited training in this area themselves, if any (if older, there is a good chance they never even had any specific training for transitioning speech changes, I am guessing).  It feels like they are asking physical therapists in training to work with war amputees instead of the broken leg or sore neck from sleeping on the stomach I went to the student health clinic for (and I didn’t get treated by a student now I think about it).  I highly doubt when a football player injures themselves playing, the coach sends them to the student health clinic for treatment. Honestly, my guess is BYU would be doing them a favor by not setting them up with bad habits because the therapists don’t know how to do it best because it is the reverse of how they usually teach people.  My singing teacher may have had all the professional training typically expected working with the voice, but he wasn’t trained to work with kids and my throat going tight halfway through a hymn now is the result.  Specialized training is important.

Maybe the voice is not as delicate a tool as my singing teacher conveyed, but he certainly convinced me not to go around belting out showtunes just for fun.  Or maybe speech therapy is different enough I am way off base…very convenient to have Juliann here to tell me if my minuscule experience with singing is at all relevant to the current situation.

Someone trained in voice disorder therapy would be qualified as far as dealing with the anatomy goes. There are other factors as mentioned in the above link. I would assume a university has someone knowledgable in voice therapy. All I've done is deal with vocal nodules which is basically to get them to stop banging their vocal cords together with loud, forceful talking/yelling. But this idea that any speech specialist can be expected to do this is nuts....and it isn't ethical. Even ASHA binds us to referring if we aren't qualified. And frankly, once you have your textbook stuff and a smattering of clinical experience, the rest is pretty much on the job training. There aren't schools to go to that specialize in niche disorders/treatments unless they happen to have a prof to take classes from who specializes in it.

I happened to be in a program that had a guy who did a lot of stuttering therapy so I got comfortable with that. Most therapists aren't. And let me take this opportunity to chastize those who fall for Biden's stuttering excuses. He doesn't qualify as a stutterer from any direction, there are assessment techniques and it requires a certain percentage of dysfluencies which is a bizillion times more than he ever did.  If he had trouble at all (and I've heard no corroboration at all) it was likely very normal developmental stuttering which goes away on it's own. Shame on him for telling those with honest to goodness dysfluency problems that they can get over it by reading poetry. That is a total jerk move. 

Edited February 13, 2022 by juliann

[2BizE]

I do not fully understand this therapy, but it is a therapy that has been provided to BYU LGBTQ students until recently.  Why would students go to this clinic for therapy?  Is it because their health insurance only covers therapy at the BYU clinic?  

[juliann]

 

Quote

 

Costs

The BYU Speech and Language clinic is pleased to waive all fees for services at this time, in keeping with Medicare regulations. BYU students also receive all services free of charge.

 

 

 https://education.byu.edu/comd/byu-speech-and-language-clinic

Welcome to the BYU Speech and Language Clinic. We are an outpatient clinic that is part of an academic experience for university graduate students. We are pleased to offer evaluation and treatment services for both adults and children. The clinic has from 20 to 70 patients being treated by 20 to 25 student clinicians throughout the year. We treat a variety of conditions, including:

• Aphasia
• Apraxia
• Autism spectrum disorders (ASD)
• Childhood apraxia of speech (CAS)
• Cleft palate
• Cognitive-communication deficits such as memory
• Developmental language disorders
• Dysarthria
• Pediatric feeding difficulties
• Social communication impairments
• Speech sound disorders
• Stuttering/fluency
• Swallowing difficulties (dysphagia)
• Traumatic brain injury and concussions
• Voice and resonance disorders

Our student clinicians are studying to become speech-language pathologists. They work with clients under the supervision of licensed speech-language pathologists who are certified by the American Speech-Language-Hearing Association (ASHA). During this two-year graduate program, students participate in hands-on clinical experiences. These opportunities help them become effective and exceptional speech-language pathologists in schools, hospitals, and private care. Our team of student clinicians, supervising speech-language pathologists, and academic faculty collaborate together to create a clinical team dedicated to providing excellent care for the community.

We invite you to drop by the clinic and see how we might assist you with your therapy needs as we help prepare the next generation of speech-Language pathologists who will change the world!

For more information about the BYU Speech and Language Clinic, click here.

For more information about course sequencing and how the clinic fits in with the Communication Disorders master's program, click here.

[The Nehor]

19 hours ago, juliann said:

And let me take this opportunity to chastize those who fall for Biden's stuttering excuses. He doesn't qualify as a stutterer from any direction, there are assessment techniques and it requires a certain percentage of dysfluencies which is a bizillion times more than he ever did.  If he had trouble at all (and I've heard no corroboration at all) it was likely very normal developmental stuttering which goes away on it's own. Shame on him for telling those with honest to goodness dysfluency problems that they can get over it by reading poetry. That is a total jerk move. 

Nope.

[helix]

ASHA is shocked the church disapproves of using tithing money to subsidize gender transitioning.  Amazingly, ASHA claims this goes against the church's own handbook. 

Whenever the argument hits "You aren't an authority on your own teachings.  We know your teachings.  Let me tell you what your teachings are."  Then the argument is over. 

 

 

Edited February 13, 2022 by helix

[Bernard Gui]

19 hours ago, juliann said:

He doesn't qualify as a stutterer from any direction, there are assessment techniques and it requires a certain percentage of dysfluencies which is a bizillion times more than he ever did.  If he had trouble at all (and I've heard no corroboration at all) it was likely very normal developmental stuttering which goes away on it's own. Shame on him for telling those with honest to goodness dysfluency problems that they can get over it by reading poetry.

Having a college friend who suffered from severe stuttering and a son who has mild stuttering, I learned that it does not go away without considerable time, effort, and direction. I also learned that it is not funny.

[Calm]

Is there another term for childhood stuttering?  My mom always made a big deal of it and I vaguely remember going to a therapist at school in kindergarten, but I don’t remember stuttering myself, so I don’t like calling myself a stutterer just because I know ones that are struggling with it as adults and it is completely different. I think it was just getting the language and the speed up to express what I was thinking as I talk fast way too often.  Mom says it was from being the baby trying to get heard over my two older siblings.  I believe it was mainly with r’s.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Calm

[juliann]

18 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Having a college friend who suffered from severe stuttering and a son who has mild stuttering, I learned that it does not go away without considerable time, effort, and direction. I also learned that it is not funny.

It is a devastating life long disorder. It isn't a "gaffe." It isn't an excuse for coming up with the wrong word when you don't have anything approaching a dysfluency problem. Occasionally repeating sounds or syllables or words is normal dysfluency. That is factored into diagnostics. If you don't come anywhere close to exceeding that threshold, don't use stuttering as an excuse. 

While I'm at it, the film industry still uses stuttering as a gag, it's disgusting. 

[juliann]

12 minutes ago, Calm said:

Is there another term for childhood stuttering?  My mom always made a big deal of it and I vaguely remember going to a therapist at school in kindergarten, but I don’t remember stuttering myself, so I don’t like calling myself a stutterer just because I know ones that are struggling with it as adults and it is completely different. I think it was just getting the language and the speed up to express what I was thinking as I talk fast way too often.  Mom says it was from being the baby trying to get heard over my two older siblings.  I believe it was mainly with r’s.

Developmental stuttering. It usually resolves itself. My grandson went through a stage where I became worried. He was extremely verbal and began to show some struggle.  As I was debating what to do, it disappeared. I'd be concerned if it was still a problem in kindergarten. A lot of people can say they stuttered. That is different than an adult trying to excuse speaking blurbs by being a "stutterer." 

https://www2.asha.org/PRPSpecificTopic.aspx?folderid=8589935336&section=Treatment

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, juliann said:

Developmental stuttering. It usually resolves itself. My grandson went through a stage where I became worried. He was extremely verbal and began to show some struggle.  As I was debating what to do, it disappeared. I'd be concerned if it was still a problem in kindergarten. A lot of people can say they stuttered. That is different than an adult trying to excuse speaking blurbs by being a "stutterer." 

https://www2.asha.org/PRPSpecificTopic.aspx?folderid=8589935336&section=Treatment

My college friend would stop mid-word or mid-sentence as if searching for the next word and then yawn or extend his jaw before being able to continue. IIRC the yawn was intentional, but I may be wrong on that. This could happen several times in one sentence. My son hesitated at the start of some words. While this has become less noticeable as an adult, he still does it once in a while even in casual conversations. I don’t know the technical words to describe these difficulties.

Edited February 13, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[MrShorty]

If it is a simple question of competence of the clinicians to provide this therapy, then this should be a really easy "fix." Come out and admit that the BYU clinic was wrongly providing a therapy its clinicians were not qualified to provide, and that the clinic had decided that the best way forward was to help these people find a more qualified therapist. It seems like, if this were the case, this should have been the narrative from the beginning to avoid this kind of misunderstanding, or should have been an immediate reaction to the misunderstanding.

The problem I see is that all reports that I've seen suggest that the change in policy is less about provider competence and more about the specific treatment being offered -- a treatment specific to transgender and those expressing gender dysphoria. If the BYU clinic feels that their student providers are capable of providing a service, but refusing solely on the patient expressing transgender or gender dysphoric tendencies, that seems to go against the ethical guidelines that ASHA outlines. Maybe this is just one of those questions about how far a clinical provider can/should allow religious beliefs to guide who they will treat and what treatments are acceptable?

[juliann]

2 hours ago, MrShorty said:

If it is a simple question of competence of the clinicians to provide this therapy, then this should be a really easy "fix." Come out and admit that the BYU clinic was wrongly providing a therapy its clinicians were not qualified to provide, and that the clinic had decided that the best way forward was to help these people find a more qualified therapist. It seems like, if this were the case, this should have been the narrative from the beginning to avoid this kind of misunderstanding, or should have been an immediate reaction to the misunderstanding.

 

 Huh? Where are you getting that from?  Any university would have profs qualified to treat voice disorders. Did you not see the list of what speech therapists treat?

Quote

The problem I see is that all reports that I've seen suggest that the change in policy is less about provider competence and more about the specific treatment being offered -- a treatment specific to transgender and those expressing gender dysphoria. If the BYU clinic feels that their student providers are capable of providing a service, but refusing solely on the patient expressing transgender or gender dysphoric tendencies, that seems to go against the ethical guidelines that ASHA outlines. Maybe this is just one of those questions about how far a clinical provider can/should allow religious beliefs to guide who they will treat and what treatments are acceptable?

It's never been about competence.  How has that not been clear? It is about a religious institution being able to act on its beliefs. 

[Calm]

10 minutes ago, juliann said:

Huh? Where are you getting that from? 

I think from my speculation about student therapists not being experienced and perhaps BYU not having supervisors that had this niche training…but that wasn’t me thinking BYU was withdrawing because of that, it was more consumer me thinking I’d wait and choose a specialist if I was in that situation, but from what you say it doesn’t work that way and it is less niche/specialized work than I was thinking.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Calm

[juliann]

3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

My college friend would stop mid-word or mid-sentence as if searching for the next word and then yawn or extend his jaw before being able to continue. IIRC the yawn was intentional, but I may be wrong on that. This could happen several times in one sentence. My son hesitated at the start of some words. While this has become less noticeable as an adult, he still does it once in a while even in casual conversations. I don’t know the technical words to describe these difficulties.

People pick up secondary characteristics to assist them in getting the words out. It offers up a distraction at first and works. Then it is no longer a distraction and doesn't. So they add another behavior, and so on.  Part of therapy is getting rid of the behaviors.  Your son might be anticipating a sound he has difficulty generating. That's just a wild guess. 

[juliann]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

I think from my speculation about student therapists not being experienced and perhaps BYU not having supervisors that had this niche training…but that wasn’t me thinking BYU was withdrawing because of that, it was more consumer me thinking I’d wait and choose a specialist, but from what you say it doesn’t work that way…

Yes, but you presented that as a question not a fact. 

[Calm]

13 minutes ago, juliann said:

Yes, but you presented that as a question not a fact. 

I am reading him as saying ‘think about your speculation…doesn’t really fit while this does’ (spends the first paragraph saying what could have been done easily if I was right and since it wasn’t what happened, the next paragraph deals with the more probable scenario), but Shorty can clarify if needed…don’t think it is now you have provided the info that speculation is faulty.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Calm

[MiserereNobis]

On 2/13/2022 at 1:18 PM, juliann said:

It is a devastating life long disorder. It isn't a "gaffe." It isn't an excuse for coming up with the wrong word when you don't have anything approaching a dysfluency problem. Occasionally repeating sounds or syllables or words is normal dysfluency. That is factored into diagnostics. If you don't come anywhere close to exceeding that threshold, don't use stuttering as an excuse. 

While I'm at it, the film industry still uses stuttering as a gag, it's disgusting. 

What did you think of the movie "The King's Speech" (if you saw it)? I really enjoyed it, but I'm not sure how accurate it was as far as stuttering is concerned, and if it dealt with the issue appropriately.