Jump to content

Brad Wilcox fireside to Alpine youth on Feb 6.


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

AFAIK, Church Zoom broadcasts are not usually recorded on site. 

It was a tristake fireside, it might have been recorded to be saved because it was seen as different than the usual local ones.

Link to comment
17 hours ago, Buckeye said:

Ding ding ding.  We have a winner.  

 

17 hours ago, Calm said:

Did I?  What do I get? ;)

Want a cookie? 🍪

Damn, now I'm hungry! :angry:

;) :D :rofl:

:friends:

Link to comment
53 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I didn't watch the speaker and I only skimmed a bit here and there on the thread, but I do want to address the "pretending church" comment. Obviously, I think he's wrong, but I'm not personally offended by it. I think it's because it comes from such a place of ignorance that it just doesn't affect me. I know that I am not pretending church. If he came and spent a day at the monastery with me he would know the monks aren't pretending church, either.

Never ascribe to malice that which can be ascribed to ignorance.

In this case, I think he's just ignorant.

If someone who knew me accused me of pretending church, that would probably be a different matter, though, because the accusation wouldn't come from ignorance since they know me.

Also on a somewhat related note, as a Catholic, I have a hard time getting upset with the exclusive "only true church" claims of your church, as some do. I mean, we make those claims, too. You don't accept our baptism, and we don't accept yours. You claim apostasy, which excludes us, but we claim apostolic succession, which excludes you.

Anyways, carry on :) 

 

This is why it always has interests me that in general, Catholics and Latter Day Saints seem to often get along in religious discussions. I've seen it not just here but in other venues as well. It's ironic because like you said, our faith claims are directly opposed to each other 

Link to comment
On 2/7/2022 at 10:20 PM, Hamba Tuhan said:

The first clip reminds me of things I've heard my former housemate from Sierra Leone say in response to people's questions. In short, all disciples have to trust God's timing.

Others have suggested that God was always willing to accommodate a righteous people, but was always prevented by their stiffnecked attitude and disbelief.  That is the description of the recalcitrant Nephites in the Book of Mormon.  And of the Israelites led out of Egypt by Moses.  Getting the congregation to follow the Lord is easier said than done.

Link to comment
11 minutes ago, boblloyd91 said:

This is why it always has interests me that in general, Catholics and Latter Day Saints seem to often get along in religious discussions. I've seen it not just here but in other venues as well. It's ironic because like you said, our faith claims are directly opposed to each other 

And yet in so many ways our faith claims are isomorphic.

Link to comment
14 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Where have you been over the years when I needed you?

As former BYU Athletic Director Glen Tuckett said once, "I can never remember a time when I've said too little ... but, boy, would I like a dime for every time I've said too much!" :D :rofl: :D

Link to comment
49 minutes ago, Calm said:

It was a tristake fireside, it might have been recorded to be saved because it was seen as different than the usual local ones.

Possibly. Do you know if the tri-stake folks released it on the internet?

Edited by Bernard Gui
Link to comment
12 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

As former BYU Athletic Director Glen Tuckett said once, "I can never remember a time when I've said too little ... but, boy, would I like a dime for every time I've said too much!" :D :rofl: :D

I resemble that remark!

Link to comment
45 minutes ago, rongo said:

Randy Bott was a BYU professor. Brother Wilcox is a counselor in the General Sunday School Presidency. I think that's the difference here. One is more painful and embarrassing to "fire" than the other. A lot more. 

Bro Wilcox is also a BYU professor. We’ll see how the chips fall. 

Link to comment
11 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Possibly. Do you know if the tri-stake folks released it on the internet?

Not a clue, but I may know someone who knows now that I think of it.  Will report if I get any info.

Link to comment
3 hours ago, Durangout said:

Wilcox really got “put on the map” with his wonderful talk on Grace.  His explanation / talk was far better than any apostle’s on the subject that I’d heard.  He became popular; everybody wanted to be in his class; he was in high demand at Women’s (not Girl’s) conference; people told him how great he was—and he began to believe it. 

IMHuO this is the downside of popularity…in and out of the Church. Takes a huge sense of humility to avoid the pitfalls. It’s a rare person who can avoid it. 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Fether said:

Wilcox often aims his comments at people his comments will have little affect on. A lot of the anecdotes he uses to address difficult issues are fun small talk or preaching to the choir type statements. The type you use to make fun of those who aren’t in the club. But for those who are actually struggling with the issues, his statements have little affect, if not just creating more frustration for them.

But what do those "fun" things reveal about the person inside?  

I see this as a 'discipleship' issue where it's good to search our hearts in the light of God's love.  We are called to be Christlike!

I don't see you condoning what he said, Fether so please don't think I'm directing this at you, the commentator.

Just musing ...

Link to comment
Just now, Paloma said:

But what do those "fun" things reveal about the person inside?  

I see this as a 'discipleship' issue where it's good to search our hearts in the light of God's love.  We are called to be Christlike!

I don't see you condoning what he said, Fether so please don't think I'm directing this at you, the commentator.

Just musing ...

I just think he is naive about some topics but still chooses to address them. Most people that do hurtful things don’t do it on purpose. Most people are just blind to their flaws. You don’t know what you don’t know.

Despite my dislike for his talks, I still look up to Wilcox and think he is a great man

Link to comment
1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Does the presidency of the quorum of seventy hold keys?

Presidency of the Seventy. Together, the seven men preside over all of the quorums of the Seventy, including those comprised of Area Seventies. 
 

But they don’t hold keys. They have authority delegated to them from the Twelve (see quote in my post below). 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
Link to comment
12 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

IMHuO this is the downside of popularity…in and out of the Church. Takes a huge sense of humility to avoid the pitfalls. It’s a rare person who can avoid it. 

It’s a challenge but not insurmountable. Elder Uchtdorf has handled his popularity well. Elder Maxwell was a common ‘favorite speaker’ for many members. Neither of them had a slip up. 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Nofear said:

From what I can tell, the bodies and quorums which constitute the General Authorities are all ones where the head of that body or quorum holds priesthood keys.
The General Officers of the Church have authority delegated to them but priesthood keys are not contained within the organizations.

General officers have ancillary roles. They support the General Authorities, who carry out the spiritual and administrative leadership in the Church. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
Link to comment
1 hour ago, Nofear said:

From what I can tell, the bodies and quorums which constitute the General Authorities are all ones where the head of that body or quorum holds priesthood keys.
The General Officers of the Church have authority delegated to them but priesthood keys are not contained within the organizations.

 

1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Does the presidency of the quorum of seventy hold keys?

“Duties of the Seventy

“Latter-day revelations provide that the Seventy are “to preach the gospel, and to be especial witnesses [of Jesus Christ] … in all the world” (D&C 107:25). Furthermore, they “are to act in the name of the Lord, under the direction of the Twelve … in building up the church and regulating all the affairs of the same in all nations” (D&C 107:34).
“The unique and singular calling of the Seventy is clearly established in the revelations: “It is the duty of the [Twelve] to call upon the Seventy, when they need assistance, to fill the several calls for preaching and administering the gospel, instead of any others” (D&C 107:38).
“The Seventy do not receive additional priesthood keys, but with each assignment they receive from the First Presidency or the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, they are delegated authority to accomplish the assignment given.”

The above is from the “Gospel Library” on the Church website and the mobile app. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
Link to comment
27 minutes ago, Paloma said:

MN, you said "I didn't watch the speaker".

I did watch the speaker, and that made all the difference. 

There's no question he was mocking everyone in the Christian world other than his own church.  It wasn't the difference of opinion that I found repugnant but the condescension and specific example of an anecdote about marriage (that came across to me as unbelievable), among other offensive attitudes and statements in general.

I agree with you that opinions of those who don't know us are in a much different classification from those who do, and I like your aphorism:  "Never ascribe to malice to that which can be ascribed to ignorance".  I see its applicability here.

I've mentioned this example here before, but I think it's relevant.  About 20 years ago, I would take various groups of Latter-day Saint missionaries out for lunch on P-day - usually 2 or 3 companionships at a time.  I developed deep friendships over 18 months or so.  There was always at least one missionary who knew me well at those lunches.  One day a "new" junior missionary decided to be confrontational about faith issues (something we didn't normally do though we would ask questions of each other's faith in a collegial way).  He came right out and said (to the best of my recollection): "I just want to tell you you're a fake.  I don't know who you think you are! We are Christians and you're not, end of story".   Two of the missionaries that day who knew me well were furious.  It was as if someone had just rudely insulted their beloved Mom.

When that young missionary said, "I don't know who you think you are!",  I felt like saying "I'm the person who's paying for your 'all you can eat' buffet lunch", but I didn't.

Because he didn't know me and because I saw him as a rash, overzealous missionary, I wasn't offended.  (But I do remember it, so there's that!)

That was unfortunate. I hope he matured into his calling. 

Sister Gui and I had a good friend whose father was a Missionary Baptist pastor. We had a number of good conversations with her about the Church. She adamantly insisted we were not Christians, but her questions were usually sourced from anti-Mormon materials. The conversations (instigated by her) were always cordial. One day I asked her why we call God “our Father.” She said something like “I need help on that one,” and made a phone call. A few minutes later there was a knock at the door. In walked her dad and his assistant pastor carrying their Bibles over their hearts. We had a great discussion, but it was made clear that they did not consider us to be Christians.
 

And I remember my dad (who was Catholic)  saying to the missionaries whenever mom had them over for dinner, “You can eat my food, but you can’t cram your religion down my throat!” When he passed away we discovered in his wallet the calling cards of Elders Stewart and Hirschi who had baptized him 40 years earlier. I was able to contact Elder Hirschi and tell him my father’s story. 
 

Link to comment
8 minutes ago, Fether said:

I just think he is naive about some topics but still chooses to address them. Most people that do hurtful things don’t do it on purpose. Most people are just blind to their flaws. You don’t know what you don’t know.

Despite my dislike for his talks, I still look up to Wilcox and think he is a great man

So true.

I think that giving grace and choosing to think the best of a person are good ways to go!

Link to comment
3 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

This one was broadcast over zoom and disseminated to a wide audience. There is evidence. Look at George Floyd. People have complained about police violence for years and years, but once you can see it on video it makes it irrefutable. 
 

What if someone came on this forum and complained about a horrible talk from Wilcox. People would ask for context and would generally give the GO the benefit of the doubt over the complainer. When you can actually go and listen to an hour of cringe? It’s undeniable. 

Maybe that's it.

But I'm more wondering why I haven't heard any concern from the hundreds (thousands?) of people who have heard this talk or one's like it in person.  Yeah, I'd probably give the benefit of the doubt to someone if there was no evidence presented to support the accusation, but I haven't even heard any accusations until this week.  Has anyone else?  Have people--who have been present for these talks--been sounding the alarm and no one is listening?

Link to comment
7 minutes ago, Paloma said:

So true.

I think that giving grace and choosing to think the best of a person are good ways to go!

I’m good at giving grace when the person is struggling. But I struggle giving grace to people I view as thriving sometimes.

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...