Jump to content

Interconnectedness in the Christian faith


Recommended Posts

27 minutes ago, longview said:

Depends on whether you support His Purposes in making this Creation, the reasons for the Fall, and the Plan of Happiness.

The way I understand the gospel, we believe salvation is a free gift bestowed upon all of God’s children.  That gift saves us from the grave, correct? But the only way to live with God again is to accept the restored gospel, the gospel LDS members follow. Any gospel outside of the restored gospel the LDS gospel, is incomplete, correct? So the way I grew up, I was taught Christians are no different then a Muslim, Jew or atheist. The best examples I can give are, we don’t and neither does God accept any baptism performed by any other religion. Elder Oaks explains that point in the video I provided. Out of all the Christian denominations, we believe we are the only followers of Christ that have the ability to practice and use his priesthood authority. If the two examples I provided are true, fitting in under the tent of Christianity is going to be a tuff sale. The church will slowly fade away. 
 

Personally, I think Christians should be left alone and let them find and build a personal relationship with God. They don’t need our help! We shouldn’t be knocking on their front door trying to save their souls. It makes no sense. If we believe they’re Christians, we need to start acting like it. And knocking on the door of a fellow brother/sister in Christ and saying, hey!!, we follow the real restored gospel, not yours, the one that was corrupted over a period of 1700 years while our gospel was in heaven being protected by God. Am I wrong?

Edited by Mike Drop
Link to comment
46 minutes ago, Mike Drop said:

Am I wrong?

You can make all kinds of rationalizations but you still are not addressing the point of my previous post.  Your comment on salvation is bizarre considering that Jesus Himself explained to Nicodemus that baptism is necessary for entrance into the kingdom of God.  The vast majority of mankind throughout history have not attained this privilege.

Link to comment
3 hours ago, Mike Drop said:

Thank you!! Question, does my personal relationship with Christ afford me the opportunity to live with him again? 

Mike, you're responding to and addressing Navidad here, so I am not presuming to know his answer (even though I sense he and I have a lot in common!).

My own answer to your question is that yes, your personal relationship with Christ affords you the opportunity to live with Him again.  In fact, I think He'll move heaven and earth to have you live with Him forever ... just as you are, no conditions attached apart from your trust in Him.  (I acknowledge that's a condition, but I don't think God will "force" us to be with Him against our own will.)

You may well be wanting answers from your fellow LDS believers and I realize my answer must surely be different from theirs.  But I wanted to speak for myself.

I'm glad that this forum allows us that privilege.

Edited by Paloma
Link to comment
3 hours ago, Mike Drop said:

The way I understand the gospel, we believe salvation is a free gift bestowed upon all of God’s children.  That gift saves us from the grave, correct? But the only way to live with God again is to accept the restored gospel, the gospel LDS members follow. Any gospel outside of the restored gospel the LDS gospel, is incomplete, correct? So the way I grew up, I was taught Christians are no different then a Muslim, Jew or atheist. The best examples I can give are, we don’t and neither does God accept any baptism performed by any other religion. Elder Oaks explains that point in the video I provided. Out of all the Christian denominations, we believe we are the only followers of Christ that have the ability to practice and use his priesthood authority. If the two examples I provided are true, fitting in under the tent of Christianity is going to be a tuff sale. The church will slowly fade away. 
 

Personally, I think Christians should be left alone and let them find and build a personal relationship with God. They don’t need our help! We shouldn’t be knocking on their front door trying to save their souls. It makes no sense. If we believe they’re Christians, we need to start acting like it. And knocking on the door of a fellow brother/sister in Christ and saying, hey!!, we follow the real restored gospel, not yours, the one that was corrupted over a period of 1700 years while our gospel was in heaven being protected by God. Am I wrong?

I invite you to learn more about Priscilla and Aquilla, a missionary couple who worked with the apostle Paul, who after hearing a Christian named Apollos "took him aside and explained the way of God even more accurately."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priscilla_and_Aquila

Christians have been teaching or at least trying to teach other Christians for thousands of years, bro.  It's part of the program.

 

Link to comment
3 hours ago, longview said:

You can make all kinds of rationalizations but you still are not addressing the point of my previous post.  Your comment on salvation is bizarre considering that Jesus Himself explained to Nicodemus that baptism is necessary for entrance into the kingdom of God.  The vast majority of mankind throughout history have not attained this privilege.

Billions of people are living today that have been baptized into the body of Christ but not through priesthood authority found only in our church, at least that’s what we teach. Christians such as Baptist, Methodist, presbyterians, Catholics and many more. Christians don’t wake up wishing they could be Mormons! Far from it. As Mormons, we need to make our mind up. We can’t  preach and teach that their baptism ceremony is worthless, not accepted by God, and at the same time try to sneak into the Christian tent that has a very old and rich history. I love Christians! Probably one of the reasons I didn’t go on a mission was because I personally couldn’t knock on a Christians door and with a straight face tell them our gospel is more complete than the one they follow. Call it a character flaw, I couldn’t do it! Plus I liked girls to much!
 

Personally, I think we should make our church and its activities so enjoyable and fulfilling, people will flock to the church. I think we should start with ditching the suits, even the Apostles, they could wear normal everyday clothes, pound some nails, sand some Sheetrock volunteer, volunteer volunteer. If being a carpenter was good enough for Jesus, our lord and savior, don’t tell me we need to be clean shaven and wearing a white shirt every Sunday. Work with our hands, get dirty. Be less corporate. Throw the teleprompters away, speak from the heart, let the spirit guide us. And last but not least, open the temple to all. Let them partake in the goodness our heavenly parents have bestowed upon their children. We could still require a temple recommend. But let’s start using the temples!! It’s like having a Lamborghini and parking it in the garage just so you can walk out there and stare at it. Let’s put some miles on that sucker!!!

Link to comment
4 hours ago, Mike Drop said:

Probably one of the reasons I didn’t go on a mission was because I personally couldn’t knock on a Christians door and with a straight face tell them our gospel is more complete than the one they follow. Call it a character flaw, I couldn’t do it! Plus I liked girls to much!

Do you by any chance live near the Atlantic@Mike Drop?

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
Link to comment
12 hours ago, Mike Drop said:

Thank you!! Question, does my personal relationship with Christ afford me the opportunity to live with him again? 

Sorry for the delay in responding. I had to go to the states today and that is a four hour drive each way plus the time there. If you have a personal relationship with Christ, then I am quite confident He will usher you into the presence of His Father for eternity!

Edited by Navidad
Link to comment
8 hours ago, Navidad said:

Sorry for the delay in responding. I had to go to the states today and that is a four hour drive each way plus the time there. If you have a personal relationship with Christ, then I am quite confident He will usher you into the presence of His Father for eternity!

Do I need to be baptized, or, is the relationship enough?

Link to comment
23 minutes ago, Paloma said:

Mike, again you asked Navidad this question directly.  Like you, I'm very interested in his answer.

While waiting for Navidad, I'll mention what I've answered a person in real life who asked me this question.

Someone (let's call him Steve) said to me very directly: "Tell me in one word whether I can be 'saved' without baptism."  I took Steve at his word, and said "Yes". 

But I added "If you're willing, now let me tell you all the reasons it's absolutely important that you be baptized."  My reasons included that baptism is - a testament of one's faith in Jesus Christ; a sign of acknowledging and confessing one's sin and being symbolically cleansed through the water of baptism; a sign and seal of one's commitment to living an obedient faith-filled life; a sign of entering into God's church (also known as the "household of faith", or "body of believers', etc.); a sign of identifying with and following Jesus Himself whose own baptism by John showed its importance.

The reason my one word answer to Steve was "Yes" (and you can see why I wanted to follow that up with explaining the importance of baptism) is my own conviction that Jesus' atonement is all-sufficient for eternal salvation (living in the presence of God).  But that doesn't mean we don't understand and commit to following His example of baptism, and to "remembering Him" through taking part in Communion.  

 

Thank you for answering! In my experience with Christians, baptism isn’t needed to have a meaningful relationship with Christ nor is it needed to return to his presence after death. I think this is very comforting to   many of God’s children. As I understand it, salvation is the ultimate goal for Christians, and salvation is all that’s needed to live with God for eternity. Salvation is a free gift! 
 

I hope I don’t screw this up. Most of the Christians I’ve talked to don’t think baptism is necessary for salvation. Basically, anything in addition to faith is seen as a work based faith to Christians. Am I close? This is why I think Mormonism is better off going it alone. Our ultimate goal is exaltation. Exaltation is work based. There are certain steps that have to be taken to reach exaltation, many steps. If those steps aren’t taken, we settle for salvation which takes us to a lower kingdom of glory and we don’t live with God. I’ve never understood how someone thinks our faith isn’t based on works. 
 

 

Link to comment
21 hours ago, Mike Drop said:

...

Probably one of the reasons I didn’t go on a mission was because I personally couldn’t knock on a Christians door and with a straight face tell them our gospel is more complete than the one they follow. Call it a character flaw, I couldn’t do it! Plus I liked girls to much!

...
Let’s put some miles on that sucker!!!

Mike, you come across as really honest and raw - my very favourite kind of people!

Which is interesting, because I know I come across as very thoughtful and composed, etc.  And that's not phony - that's who I am.  I'm also committed to being completely honest and  transparent.  

I realized how much I appreciated "raw" people when I was a high school teacher many moons ago.  In my first year of teaching, I had two classes in particular that are really memorable.  One was full of kids that were really studious and polite.  I couldn't believe my luck!  The other was a super challenging class.  The kids were a mixture of sullen, hostile, and non-hostile but extremely open with their thoughts and emotions.  Right from the beginning, I knew where I stood with those kids.  I got everything from "I hate you -  you're the worst f***'ing teacher in the school!" to "You're young like us (I was 21) so can you help us with our boyfriend problems?"

About two-thirds through the school year, I had a really bad car accident that kept me out of school for two week's recuperation.  I dreaded going back to school because I was somewhat disfigured from the accident, my ability to talk was affected,  and I could imagine how cruel the kids might be.  Just before I was due to go back, a fellow teacher brought me a home made card from this 'challenging' class that showed a comical character saying in air quotes - Duh!  You come back y'hear!!  It was signed by each of the kids in that class.

When I did return, my 'super good' class was quietly polite.  My 'challenging' class looked at me with the most compassionate eyes imaginable.  They wanted to know, "How are you?"  "What happened?"  " We want to know all about it!"  They had endless patience with my speech difficulties.

That's my story of how I learned to really appreciate "raw" people.  It wasn't the beginning of my liking such overtly "real and honest" people - but it cemented it for me!

Edited by Paloma
Link to comment
49 minutes ago, Mike Drop said:

Thank you for answering! In my experience with Christians, baptism isn’t needed to have a meaningful relationship with Christ nor is it needed to return to his presence after death. I think this is very comforting to   many of God’s children. As I understand it, salvation is the ultimate goal for Christians, and salvation is all that’s needed to live with God for eternity. Salvation is a free gift! 
 

I hope I don’t screw this up. Most of the Christians I’ve talked to don’t think baptism is necessary for salvation. Basically, anything in addition to faith is seen as a work based faith to Christians. Am I close? This is why I think Mormonism is better off going it alone. Our ultimate goal is exaltation. Exaltation is work based. There are certain steps that have to be taken to reach exaltation, many steps. If those steps aren’t taken, we settle for salvation which takes us to a lower kingdom of glory and we don’t live with God. I’ve never understood how someone thinks our faith isn’t based on works. 
 

 

Mike, in my experience, both are true.  Salvation is a free gift and baptism is vitally important.  

While I'm familiar with Christians ("I am one!") who believe and say that we're saved "through faith and not by works", I've actually not known anyone who would see baptism as included in "works".  Most Christians I know would see baptism as not necessary for salvation, but would see it as an important sign and profession of their faith.

Reasons I've seen and heard for people hesitating to become baptized include:  fear of water; "not ready yet" - fear of being unable to live an obedient life and thus being a hypocrite or failure; fear of 'letting down' their non-believing relatives because baptism is such a significant step that it could somehow separate them from people they love; etc.

I've never come across a Christian who takes their faith seriously who has not taken the need for baptism seriously. (See my fact-check at bottom of post.)

As a former missionary and former pastor, I've wanted to understand, encourage and work with people "where they're at", affirming their faith and security in God's acceptance and love while also encouraging baptism.

One Christian friend who was struggling with the issue of baptism ended up in the hospital, suddenly needing amputation.  He feared surviving the surgery as he had serious underlying health issues.  I was with him and his wife at the hospital.  I was both their friend and pastor.  Just before he was about to be taken to the operating room, he asked if I would baptize him.  I didn't feel it was absolutely necessary as I believed his faith was real and he was secure in God.  But I knew his fear, heard his request and honoured his desire.  I baptized him then and there with the water in my water bottle I was holding. While this may seem heretical or sacreligious to some, I believed I was honouring both the individual believer in front of me - and the importance of baptism.

He survived the operation.

(Fact-check edit:  I've just remembered that I learned some years ago the Salvation Army church does not include baptism and communion (Lord's Supper) in their church practices. So there's an 'institutional' example of not seeing baptism as necessary for salvation.

We had a number of Salvation Army people join our church who were fully embraced as part of our church community.  They were encouraged to be baptized, and as far as I know, each of them was baptized.  One couple in particular talked about what a joyous experience it was for them!)

Edited by Paloma
Link to comment
6 hours ago, Mike Drop said:

Do I need to be baptized, or, is the relationship enough?

The relationship is enough, but if the relationship is great, then baptism is a natural testimony of the same to follow. I don't share an interest in "exaltation," probably because that term is foreign to me. I don't even pretend to understand it even after four or five years of direct engagement with members of the church. I am a big believer, however in sanctification - growing in knowledge, consistency, piety, and perhaps even holiness as I become stronger in my commitment to Christ. For me, this has correlated with my aging physically. 

I guess succinctly (something I am not good at) baptism is a witness-a testimony. I have baptized many people and I have each and every time prior to the act, asked them to testify to whoever is present of their relationship with Christ. It (baptism) in our world is not salvific. It is a testimony of salvation. My own Anabaptist background recoils at the idea of exaltation - probably a semantic thing. Being exalted was more or less the opposite of being spiritually-minded. Being humble was far the more desirable trait. Thanks so much! Have a good day!

Link to comment
23 minutes ago, Paloma said:

Mike, you come across as really honest and raw - my very favourite kind of people!

Which is interesting, because I know I come across as very thoughtful and composed, etc.  And that's not phony - that's who I am.  But I'm also committed to being brutally honest and completely transparent.  

I realized how much I appreciated "raw" people when I was a high school teacher many moons ago.  In my first year of teaching, I had two classes in particular that are really memorable.  One was full of kids that were really studious and polite.  I couldn't believe my luck!  The other was a super challenging class.  The kids were a mixture of sullen, hostile, and non-hostile but extremely open with their thoughts and emotions.  Right from the beginning, I knew where I stood with those kids.  I got everything from "I hate you -  you're the worst teacher in the school!" to "You're young like us (I was 21) so can you help us with our boyfriend problems?"

About two-thirds through the school year, I had a really bad car accident that kept me out of school for two week's recuperation.  I dreaded going back to school because I was somewhat disfigured from the accident, my ability to talk was affected,  and I could imagine how cruel the kids might be.  Just before I was due to go back, a fellow teacher brought me a home made card from this 'challenging' class that showed a comical character saying in air quotes - Duh!  You come back y'hear!!  It was signed by each of the kids in that class.

When I did return, my 'super good' class was quietly polite.  My 'challenging' class looked at me with the most compassionate eyes imaginable.  They wanted to know, "How are you?"  "What happened?"  " We want to know all about it!"  They had endless patience with my speech difficulties.

That's my story of how I learned to really appreciate "raw" people.  It wasn't the beginning of my liking such overtly "real and honest" people - but it cemented it for me!

Thank you, I think😂! And yes, you’re correct, I’m very raw, I tell you exactly where I stand and what I think. I always have, even in business. Infact, that’s why most people hire me, because I tell them exactly what I think and once we have the contract signed, I get it done. No fluffy crap in between. Probably not the best personality for discussion boards though! 
 

Honestly though, I really do love Christians and I love their passion! I could talk all day to a Christian about churchy stuff and go out to eat dinner with them no problem, no hard feelings. But if I talk doctrine or history with a Mormon, all it usually takes is one wrong word or phrase and the conversation can go sideways really quick. I see church history different than most Mormons. I don’t care about our history. Mormonisms greatest strength is found in its ability to help people find happiness and live a life more fully, without regret. Lot’s of ways to be Mormon and I think people forget that and become to rigid. I live my version of Mormonism and I help my kids live their version. In my opinion, the worst thing I could do as a father is make my kids live what I think is best. To me, that’s a great way to handicap kids right out of the gate. A true relationship with Christ is lived and built upon between the ears. If a person can learn to nurture their relationship with Christ, other people will be able physically see the relationship by just looking at you. A honest and meaningful relationship with Christ draws people to you. Nothing has to be said. 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Mike Drop said:

Most of the Christians I’ve talked to don’t think baptism is necessary for salvation. Basically, anything in addition to faith is seen as a work based faith to Christians.

Certainly within a small enough subset of Christians, it would be easy for the sample to skew towards this Protestant (Calvinist??) view. Worldwide, Catholicism tends to come up as the majority Christian sect (a little over 50%, isn't it?), and they definitely believe in the necessity of Sacraments (I forget how many are considered necessary, our resident catholics @MiserereNobis would be able to better represent the Catholic views on salvation and the Sacraments). It also seems that there are plenty of Christians with views in between (mostly like what I see @Navidad and @Paloma saying) where maybe baptism isn't absolutely essential for salvation, but it can still be important to a Christian.

I guess what I'm saying is that, long before Joseph Smith came on the scene, the largest divide in Christianity (the Catholic-Protestant schism) included differences of opinion about the necessity of Sacraments. 500 years later, as the dust has kind of settled (though the divide most definitely still exists), Christians attribute many different levels of importance/necessity (from absolutely not necessary or important to absolute necessary) to sacraments like baptism.

Link to comment
24 minutes ago, Mike Drop said:

Thank you, I think😂! And yes, you’re correct, I’m very raw, I tell you exactly where I stand and what I think. I always have, even in business. Infact, that’s why most people hire me, because I tell them exactly what I think and once we have the contract signed, I get it done. No fluffy crap in between. Probably not the best personality for discussion boards though! 
 

Honestly though, I really do love Christians and I love their passion! I could talk all day to a Christian about churchy stuff and go out to eat dinner with them no problem, no hard feelings. But if I talk doctrine or history with a Mormon, all it usually takes is one wrong word or phrase and the conversation can go sideways really quick. I see church history different than most Mormons. I don’t care about our history. Mormonisms greatest strength is found in its ability to help people find happiness and live a life more fully, without regret. Lot’s of ways to be Mormon and I think people forget that and become to rigid. I live my version of Mormonism and I help my kids live their version. In my opinion, the worst thing I could do as a father is make my kids live what I think is best. To me, that’s a great way to handicap kids right out of the gate. A true relationship with Christ is lived and built upon between the ears. If a person can learn to nurture their relationship with Christ, other people will be able physically see the relationship by just looking at you. A honest and meaningful relationship with Christ draws people to you. Nothing has to be said. 

I'm interested in your saying "lots of ways to be Mormon" as I haven't really seen that view in other members of your church, though my experience is quite limited.

I like your approach to encouraging your kids to find their own "best way" to live their lives.  You sound like a great Dad!

It sounds like your idea of having a relationship with Christ is very "real" (like you!!).

That it's "real", and needing to be nourished, and that it draws people to you - completely resonates with me!

Link to comment
25 minutes ago, Paloma said:

I'm interested in your saying "lots of ways to be Mormon" as I haven't really seen that view in other members of your church, though my experience is quite limited.

I like your approach to encouraging your kids to find their own "best way" to live their lives.  You sound like a great Dad!

It sounds like your idea of having a relationship with Christ is very "real" (like you!!).

That it's "real", and needing to be nourished, and that it draws people to you - completely resonates with me!

“Lots of ways to be Mormon” means just that. Let me explain. It’s human nature to find comfort in conformity, but I reject that notion entirely. Im not a conformist and don’t think Christ was either. I think he got his point across by being a nonconformist actually. He could of came to earth and dined with the rich, the elites, but he chose to grow his mortal ministry by befriending a bunch of ragamuffins. Not only did he come here to save us from our sins, he came here to get his point across. To make sure he wouldn’t be forgotten, and it worked! 

My wife and I are blessed with all girls. And I’ve always had a problem with them going to see the bishop, alone, confessing their sins. I understand why we are commanded to repent, I just don’t agree with having a bishop involved. Like I said before, my relationship with Christ is a real relationship and I have conversations with him all the time. I don’t need a bishop. My kids don’t either! If I can talk to Christ throughout the day almost as if he’s right there beside me, what’s the bishop going to do? That just makes the whole repentance process more complicated. So our little family goes directly to Christ! We don’t need a middleman. So that’s one way we mormon different than most Mormons.

Growing up in any religion you’ll judge people that don’t believe as you do. I find us Mormons are right up there at the top of the list when it comes to judging people. Probably because we have so many rules. To this day, I still walk into a 7/11 and a small part of me judges the people making coffee. I’ve worked on my Judge mental tendencies, but I just can’t get them 100% under control. In a restaurant a small part of me still sees the person drinking alcohol as a sinner. I cuss like a drunkin sailor but I’ll still judge someone if they cuss🤯. And growing up all my Mormon friends did. So early on my wife and I exposed  our kids to different opinions, different experiences my wife and I didn’t have as two people raised in the church from birth. It was our way to prepare our kids for the real world. We wanted our kids to understand the people they meet throughout their life are just as passionate about their religion as we are about ours. 

So that’s a couple of the things we do that might be a little different than your average Mormon family. We have fun with it. Life’s short! 
 


 

 

Link to comment
3 minutes ago, Mike Drop said:

“Lots of ways to be Mormon” means just that. Let me explain. It’s human nature to find comfort in conformity, but I reject that notion entirely. Im not a conformist and don’t think Christ was either. I think he got his point across by being a nonconformist actually. He could of came to earth and dined with the rich, the elites, but he chose to grow his mortal ministry by befriending a bunch of ragamuffins. Not only did he come here to save us from our sins, he came here to get his point across. To make sure he wouldn’t be forgotten, and it worked! 

My wife and I are blessed with all girls. And I’ve always had a problem with them going to see the bishop, alone, confessing their sins. I understand why we are commanded to repent, I just don’t agree with having a bishop involved. Like I said before, my relationship with Christ is a real relationship and I have conversations with him all the time. I don’t need a bishop. My kids don’t either! If I can talk to Christ throughout the day almost as if he’s right there beside me, what’s the bishop going to do? That just makes the whole repentance process more complicated. So our little family goes directly to Christ! We don’t need a middleman. So that’s one way we mormon different than most Mormons.

Growing up in any religion you’ll judge people that don’t believe as you do. I find us Mormons are right up there at the top of the list when it comes to judging people. Probably because we have so many rules. To this day, I still walk into a 7/11 and a small part of me judges the people making coffee. I’ve worked on my Judge mental tendencies, but I just can’t get them 100% under control. In a restaurant a small part of me still sees the person drinking alcohol as a sinner. I cuss like a drunkin sailor but I’ll still judge someone if they cuss🤯. And growing up all my Mormon friends did. So early on my wife and I exposed  our kids to different opinions, different experiences my wife and I didn’t have as two people raised in the church from birth. It was our way to prepare our kids for the real world. We wanted our kids to understand the people they meet throughout their life are just as passionate about their religion as we are about ours. 

So that’s a couple of the things we do that might be a little different than your average Mormon family. We have fun with it. Life’s short! 
 


 

 

I see that you're different from most Mormons.  Thanks for giving lots of examples of ways you are different, as well as things you have in common with most (such as avoiding coffee, alcohol, etc.)  And I expect that what you have in common extends far beyond those Word of Wisdom observances to agreeing with distinctive LDS beliefs like Plan of Salvation, etc.

The LDS friends I have that are "different" (now that I think about it, and therefore I know some people in real life who live out "lots of ways to be different") are ones who pick and choose how  closely they align themselves with LDS teachings. 

I think the orthodox LDS teaching would be that full salvation is "only" found in the "one true church" and that LDS authority and observances are necessary for ultimate salvation and living in the Celestial kingdom.  I have at least one LDS friend who believes there are other paths to full salvation and living eternally with God without the need of LDS authority.  Though a member of the church and finding it a good home for himself and his family, he does not believe it's the "one true church".  I tend to think that's a rare position  -  but wonder if it's more common than I'd imagined.

Link to comment
1 minute ago, Paloma said:

I see that you're different from most Mormons.  Thanks for giving lots of examples of ways you are different, as well as things you have in common with most (such as avoiding coffee, alcohol, etc.)  And I expect that what you have in common extends far beyond those Word of Wisdom observances to agreeing with distinctive LDS beliefs like Plan of Salvation, etc.

The LDS friends I have that are "different" (now that I think about it, and therefore I know some people in real life who live out "lots of ways to be different") are ones who pick and choose how  closely they align themselves with LDS teachings. 

I think the orthodox LDS teaching would be that full salvation is "only" found in the "one true church" and that LDS authority and observances are necessary for ultimate salvation and living in the Celestial kingdom.  I have at least one LDS friend who believes there are other paths to full salvation and living eternally with God without the need of LDS authority.  Though a member of the church and finding it a good home for himself and his family, he does not believe it's the "one true church".  I tend to think that's a rare position  -  but wonder if it's more common than I'd imagined.

In the younger generations it’s becoming more common, definitely!

Link to comment
50 minutes ago, Mike Drop said:

In the younger generations it’s becoming more common, definitely!

More common, maybe, but the vast majority of members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints still believe it was necessary for Joseph Smith to be ordained by key priesthood holders, otherwise nobody living today would have those keys.

Link to comment
28 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

Why doesn’t the Mormon church celebrate traditional Christianity holidays such as Easter, Palm Sunday, etc?  Maybe doing so would allow the LDS church to become more included?

I imagine Palm leaves are still used a lot in places like Florida.  Palm trees are very rare where I live.  Fir trees are very common though so finding one for Christmas is no problem.

Link to comment
On 1/31/2022 at 12:42 PM, James 1 5 said:

Don't allow Christians to turn you against Christ.  Christians should not have the power to give a bad name to anyone who follows Christ, as his disciple.

I think that there is a misuse of Christians in the context of this discussion.  I think what is being referred to is the Protestant movement. They call themselves Christians, but scripture says “their hearts are far from Me”. 
So let us distinguish the true Christians of the restoration, namely the LDS, from the Protestant movement. When you refer to Christians, other than Catholics, you should substitute the word Protestant. 

Edited by mrmarklin
Link to comment
2 minutes ago, mrmarklin said:

I think that there is a misuse of Christians in the context of this discussion.  I think what is being referred to is the Protestant movement. They call themselves Christians, but scripture says “their hearts are far from Me”. 
So let us distinguish the true Christians of the restoration, namely the LDS, from the Protestant movement. 

Even in that context, Christians should not turn us away from Christ.  Maybe a true Christian would not be able to turn someone away from Christ in any way whatsoever, but still it is better to follow Christ rather than to only follow a Christian.

Link to comment
2 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

I think that there is a misuse of Christians in the context of this discussion.  I think what is being referred to is the Protestant movement. They call themselves Christians, but scripture says “their hearts are far from Me”. 
So let us distinguish the true Christians of the restoration, namely the LDS, from the Protestant movement. When you refer to Christians, other than Catholics, you should substitute the word Protestant. 

Mrmarklin I bolded part of your quote above.  Would you please give me the Scripture reference?  (Not Isaiah 29:13 nor a similar verse in Ezekiel (can't remember the reference) nor Matthew 15:8, as they were written long before the Protestant movement.)  Thanks.

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...