Resigning from the church

[Orthodox Christian]

I have read somewhere on here that people resign from the church. I don't really understand this, why would you, and how do you go about it? I apologise if I've posted in the wrong place.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Orthodox Christian

[Robert F. Smith]

https://qr.ae/pGBwQO

[Orthodox Christian]

48 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

https://qr.ae/pGBwQO

Thank you for the link, I still don't understand why?

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Orthodox Christian said:

Thank you for the link, I still don't understand why?

A variety of reasons.  They don't want to be visited or called - people stay on our rolls till they are officially not members and so they will continue to get visits or calls.  They don't like what the church stands for so they don't want to be considered members.  They don't want to be counted as a member.  They no longer feel like a member so this is more clutter to take out of their lives.  

Note: it's against the rules of the board to not do "why I left" posts/threads so you won't get a lot of specifics here. 

Edited January 24, 2022 by Rain

[Orthodox Christian]

11 minutes ago, Rain said:

A variety of reasons.  They don't want to be visited or called - people stay on our rolls till they are officially not members and so they will continue to get visits or calls.  They don't like what the church stands for so they don't want to be considered members.  They don't want to be counted as a member.  They no longer feel like a member so this is more clutter to take out of their lives.  

Note: it's against the rules of the board to not do "why I left" posts/threads so you won't get a lot of specifics here. 

I see, it just seems an extreme thing to do.

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

Thank you for the link, I still don't understand why?

Silly me.  I thought you were speaking to resigning from the Church.

[Orthodox Christian]

35 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Silly me.  I thought you were speaking to resigning from the Church.

No, just trying to understand why people do.

[Olmec Donald]

29 minutes ago, Orthodox Christian said:

No, just trying to understand why people do.

For some I think it's to put a halt to unwanted contact from well-meaning church leaders, who see their name still on the rolls.

For some I think it's a formal protest statement.

For some I think it's just trying to being true to oneself.

For some I think it's beating the church to the punch (they knew they were likely to be excommunicated anyway).

For some I think it's tying up a loose end, like finalizing a divorce.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Olmec Donald

[Robert F. Smith]

37 minutes ago, Orthodox Christian said:

No, just trying to understand why people do.

Sociologists have discerned a lot of reasons for people leaving religion behind.  Many feel the affects of increasing secularism since the Enlightenment of the 18th century.  Religion tends to be very irrational, and so for many ideology or science has tended to replace God and faith.  You might think of Wagner's great Ring Cycle, in which the old gods cannot survive lack of belief.   The Judeo-Christian belief system is just as vulnerable as any pagan religion.

[Orthodox Christian]

34 minutes ago, Olmec Donald said:

For some I think it's to put a halt to unwanted contact from well-meaning church leaders, who see their name still on the rolls.

For some I think it's a formal protest statement.

For some I think it's just trying to being true to oneself.

For some I think it's beating the church to the punch (they knew they were likely to be excommunicated anyway).

For some I think it's tying up a loose end, like finalizing a divorce.

I see, but in my thinking, you resign from a job, or a committee, something like that. I mean you can't unbaptise yourself can you?

[Olmec Donald]

3 minutes ago, Orthodox Christian said:

I see, but in my thinking, you resign from a job, or a committee, something like that. I mean you can't unbaptise yourself can you?

If I wished to join the Greek Orthodox church, I might not want to simultaneously be a member of another church, even if only on paper.  Presumably I would adopt the Greek Orthodox beliefs about baptism.  

[Orthodox Christian]

6 minutes ago, Olmec Donald said:

Presumably I would adopt the Greek Orthodox beliefs about baptism.  

Only if your previous baptism is considered valid by the Church. Catholic and Anglican are valid baptisms, I'm honestly not sure about LDS baptisms, given the difference in theology between LDS and more mainstream traditions.

[poptart]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Sociologists have discerned a lot of reasons for people leaving religion behind.  Many feel the affects of increasing secularism since the Enlightenment of the 18th century.  Religion tends to be very irrational, and so for many ideology or science has tended to replace God and faith.  You might think of Wagner's great Ring Cycle, in which the old gods cannot survive lack of belief.   The Judeo-Christian belief system is just as vulnerable as any pagan religion.

Have you ever read the Rigveda, some of the Pali Canon, Heart Sutra etc.  You strike me as open minded enough since you bring up "Pagan" religions.  As an outsider looking in, i've always chuckled at what appears to me to be the mental gymnastics Christians/Christian based religions here stateside pull.  Reminds me of when an Orthodox missionary tried to "Convert" the great samurai Yamaoka Tesshu, the Zen answer he gave shook the missionary to pieces, he later abandoned his faith.  

[Fether]

7 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

I have read somewhere on here that people resign from the church. I don't really understand this, why would you, and how do you go about it? I apologise if I've posted in the wrong place.

For my sister, it seemed to be a step to formally disengage herself from an organization she felt harmed her. It seems to be more of a symbolic and therapeutic way of dealing with and separating one’s self from the church. Like writing an official letter to yourself declaring yourself free of some addiction, it’s not necessary, but it is a tangible way of separating emotionally from something

[3DOP]

10 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

I have read somewhere on here that people resign from the church. I don't really understand this, why would you, and how do you go about it? I apologise if I've posted in the wrong place.

I also could not understand any need to "resign" from what I hold to be false. It is enough to quit giving money and going to public services. I have heard of people "leaving" the Catholic Church. But there is no resignation process. 

Maybe it has to do with baptism. The Catholic who leaves, will never start from scratch. He is always going to have been baptized, which leaves a permanent mark on the soul. 

For disaffected Catholics, Baptism is worse than a tattoo! You can't get rid of it by resigning, or anything you can try. It is always there. But LDS take a different view. Maybe resigning officially makes the baptism disappear, if you will?

[Calm]

How are records kept?  Is there any tracking of members attending mass or other services?  
 

Technically I understand one can’t resign from being Catholic as it is baptism that makes them so and that is never removed, but is there any centralized membership database or other record one could demand being removed from as a public statement of disbelief or rejection of the faith?
 

Is there any attempt to contact those who aren’t attending?  And how would this be done is they moved?  Would there be any effort to track them down?

 

If someone held a public political stance that was against church teachings, such as being pro abortion is there any way besides saying “the Church is wrong” that they could act on to make a public statement they separated themselves?

Edited January 25, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

7 minutes ago, 3DOP said:

Maybe resigning officially makes the baptism disappear, if you will?

One needs to be rebaptized if one resigns or is excommunicated/membership withdrawn, resigning breaks the covenant on the individual’s end even if not God’s, so the covenant needs to be remade. Other ordinances are reactivated so to speak with the rebaptism….though I believe there is a ordinance dealing with restoration of priesthood authority.  

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

One needs to be rebaptized if one resigns or is excommunicated/membership withdrawn, resigning breaks the covenant on the individual’s end even if not God’s, so the covenant needs to be remade. Other ordinances are reactivated so to speak with the rebaptism….though I believe there is a ordinance dealing with restoration of priesthood authority.  

Correct, but restoration of blessings involves more than just restoration of Priesthood authority: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1990/09/a-chance-to-start-over-church-disciplinary-councils-and-the-restoration-of-blessings?lang=eng

[Orthodox Christian]

4 hours ago, 3DOP said:

I also could not understand any need to "resign" from what I hold to be false. It is enough to quit giving money and going to public services. I have heard of people "leaving" the Catholic Church. But there is no resignation process. 

Maybe it has to do with baptism. The Catholic who leaves, will never start from scratch. He is always going to have been baptized, which leaves a permanent mark on the soul. 

For disaffected Catholics, Baptism is worse than a tattoo! You can't get rid of it by resigning, or anything you can try. It is always there. But LDS take a different view. Maybe resigning officially makes the baptism disappear, if you will?

Thank you, this is what I find difficult. Our Baptism and Chrismation do exactly leave an indelible mark, we receive grace and the seal and pledge of rhe Holy Spirit. The concept of resigning is hard to understand when you're coming at it from an Orthodox/Catholic background where these two ordinances are a really big deal. We also believe that there is only one baptism, do I take it then that say someone wishes to come back to the LDS church, they might need to be baptised again? I can't imagine that an Orthodox would take this step, even if they ceased to believe, it is just so special to us and our parents. 

Sorry I've only just seen the response from Kenngo and Calm. 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Orthodox Christian

[Orthodox Christian]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

One needs to be rebaptized if one resigns or is excommunicated/membership withdrawn, resigning breaks the covenant on the individual’s end even if not God’s, so the covenant needs to be remade. Other ordinances are reactivated so to speak with the rebaptism….though I believe there is a ordinance dealing with restoration of priesthood authority.  

Hi Calm, if we had excommunicated ourselves by not attending the Litugy etc and not Communing through the Holy mysteries we could return by speaking with the priest and through confession we would be returned to the Church. If it were a formal excommunication then there might be more to do on behalf of the excommunicant, but there would be no rebaptism. The original baptism still stands. 

[The Nehor]

It is worth noting that in the early days of the Church people would be rebaptized as a symbol to renew their covenants when they got married or went on a mission or experienced some life change or whatever. We don’t do that anymore except when someone is readmitted to the church.

A baptism that returns someone to church membership after voluntary or involuntary removal (involuntary being as a result of a membership council, what we used to call excommunication) is similar in that it DOES NOT replace the original baptism. It restores it. It is part of the readmission process to be rebaptized but once it is completed their record reflects their initial baptismal date and that is the one that is binding.

[Mike Drop]

19 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

I have read somewhere on here that people resign from the church. I don't really understand this, why would you, and how do you go about it? I apologise if I've posted in the wrong place.

Unlike Christians, Mormons have two Devine relationships, first, the relationship with the church itself (the priesthood) along with all it’s legalese, the stuff that actually gets you into heaven, and secondly our relationship with Christ. Look at it this way! Mormons find great comfort in being under contract with the church. The church says, eat and drink this, don’t eat and drink that, say these words, don’t say those words, wear this underwear, don’t wear that underwear,   Etc, etc! The contracts (covenants) we make with the church are what make our church unique.We are a work based church. The more faithful we are to the contract we are bound by, the more likely we are to get into VIP heaven, the only heaven that matters!
 

   The more orthodox the Mormon, the more important the contract is and the less important our relationship with Christ is? Orthodox Mormons rely heavily on the contract. Garments become really important, so does language, what foods you do/don’t consume, church attendance is extremely important, temple attendance, callings are important, and much much more. The more orthodox you become, the more you start thinking life is about you being in a big arena, and all your dead relatives are watching you from above,  so it’s YOUR job to be on YOUR best behavior so they don’t see YOU sin. You see, in Mormonism, perfection is attainable and the Mormon is the one who controls the outcome, Christ is there for moral support. That’s the biggest pitfall in the Mormon church! It’s really really easy to lose focus and forget about Christ.  
 

So that’s why members “legally” remove their name from church records. It’s to null and void the contract made with the church. 

[Orthodox Christian]

17 minutes ago, Mike Drop said:

Unlike Christians, Mormons have two Devine relationships, first, the relationship with the church itself (the priesthood) along with all it’s legalese, the stuff that actually gets you into heaven, and secondly our relationship with Christ. Look at it this way! Mormons find great comfort in being under contract with the church. The church says, eat and drink this, don’t eat and drink that, say these words, don’t say those words, wear this underwear, don’t wear that underwear,   Etc, etc! The contracts (covenants) we make with the church are what make our church unique.We are a work based church. The more faithful we are to the contract we are bound by, the more likely we are to get into VIP heaven, the only heaven that matters!
 

   The more orthodox the Mormon, the more important the contract is and the less important our relationship with Christ is? Orthodox Mormons rely heavily on the contract. Garments become really important, so does language, what foods you do/don’t consume, church attendance is extremely important, temple attendance, callings are important, and much much more. The more orthodox you become, the more you start thinking life is about you being in a big arena, and all your dead relatives are watching you from above,  so it’s YOUR job to be on YOUR best behavior so they don’t see YOU sin. You see, in Mormonism, perfection is attainable and the Mormon is the one who controls the outcome, Christ is there for moral support. That’s the biggest pitfall in the Mormon church! It’s really really easy to lose focus and forget about Christ.  
 

So that’s why members “legally” remove their name from church records. It’s to null and void the contract made with the church. 

Right, I appreciate that, and do you subscribe to this pov, by your tone I'm not sure. You make the distinction between Mormons and Christians, from what I have seen here that isn't common to the members in general, is it your opinion that they are not?

Edited January 25, 2022 by Orthodox Christian

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, Orthodox Christian said:

Right, I appreciate that, and do you subscribe to this pov, by your tone I'm not sure.

Most Latter-day Saints I know don’t, I have never heard it described that way by someone I knew who is an actual Latter-day Saint.  Sounds more like a caricature of some more traditional approaches. 
 

This is consistent though with the some of the  description of critics of the faithful in the church. 
 

Not everyone posting on the board claiming to be a believers is. And there are those believers who like to see themselves as on the edge, the rebel, whatever.  You need to be cautious, I would suggest getting a better consensus or just waiting until you get to know the personalities.  

[Orthodox Christian]

36 minutes ago, Calm said:

Most Latter-day Saints I know don’t, I have never heard it described that way by someone I knew who is an actual Latter-day Saint.  Sounds more like a caricature of some more traditional approaches. 
 

This is consistent though with the some of the  description of critics of the faithful in the church. 
 

Not everyone posting on the board claiming to be a believers is. And there are those believers who like to see themselves as on the edge, the rebel, whatever.  You need to be cautious, I would suggest getting a better consensus or just waiting until you get to know the personalities.  

Thankyou, so the opinion of some is that Mormons are not Christians? 

Well, I think that when you are making that judgement you need to look closely at yourself. We believe that God looks at the heart of the person. The Jews of the OT and NT had everything that they needed to be part of that chosen people, but God declared that their "heart is far from me". The Pharisees didn't impress Christ because He could see through their hypocrisy, I try to remember His warning that not everyone who calls Him Lord will be known to Him. From what I know of your theology I don't accept as truth, but whether Christ will know you individually...or me...is for Him to judge.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Orthodox Christian