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When was the Bible validated by God?


Del March

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We all know it was mere mortal men who assembled the Bible. And yet the Bible is considered as God's authoritative Word by many.

I'm wondering: when did God validate the Bible? When did He say that:

1. The Bible is accurate? ie: that the doctrines it contains are true to the teachings of His Son and His apostles.

2. The Bible is complete? ie: that it contains all the doctrines and covenants necessary for men's salvation as taught by His Son and His apostles

3. The Bible is definitive? ie: that He would never reveal anything new after that.

Did God ever validate the Bible? If yes, how did He do it? I suspect it must have been through a man/some men? Did this person/those people hold the correct authority to talk for God, ie: were they prophets?

And finally: if the Bible has NOT been validated by God, then how could anyone use this work of men to counter God's modern revelations? Wouldn't it be extremely dangerous to refuse the possibility that God is talking again, based only on the teachings of a book that has no divine authority?

As an aside: I personally believe that the Bible is indeed the word of God because God DID approve it, through the Prophet Joseph Smith.

Del

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They will simply say that it's "existence" and "firmness" according to tradition validates it. They will say that the Book says the Gates of Hell will never prevail against the Word of God, and that's the Bible. They will say that the Spirit or "priesthood of all believers" validates it.

(Of course, they won't usually say this last one when arguing with us LDS because then they will look like they are supporting the LDS view of the Holy Ghost and revelation verifying truth to them, you know can't agree with LDS on anything. But otherwise they say it.)

You know, something all related theretoo..... :P

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These are interesting questions. I don't remember where I heard this but somewhere I did hear that Heavenly Father told Joseph Smith to use the KJV of the Bible.

Did God ever validate the Bible? If yes, how did He do it? I suspect it must have been through a man/some men? Did this person/those people hold the correct authority to talk for God, ie: were they prophets?

I found in D&C 33:16

And the Book of Mormon and the holy scriptures are given of me for your ainstruction; and the power of my bSpirit cquickeneth

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Sorry simply_disappear and emaughan, I wasn't clear enough. I was asking that question to the non-LDS who believe we should refer to the Bible only. As a LDS, it is pretty clear that God approves of the Bible as Holy Scripture. However, the 8th Article of Faith, and the very fact that there exists such a thing as the JST, indicate that all the other versions of the Bible are not perfectly accurate. The BoM and the D&C both state that important parts of the Bible have been taken away, so we do not believe that it is complete. And of course we do not believe that it is definitive, instead we believe in living prophets and additional scriptures.

So I was asking that question to all our Bible-only friends. Sorry I wasn't clear enough.

Del

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Sorry simply_disappear and emaughan, I wasn't clear enough. I was asking that question to the non-LDS who believe we should refer to the Bible only.

Oh I realize that - I think S.D. and I had the same thought race through our devious minds:

How ironic that our faith is the only one that believes in the bible because of divine testimony through a prophet of God.

The bible only crowd can not claim such a thing since the bible does not testify of itself.

Anyway, sorry if I jumped in too soon, I'll exit stage left.

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They will simply say that it's "existence" and "firmness" according to tradition validates it.

That would be a validation from men, not a validation from God. The fact that men have believed something for eons doesn't make that thing true or divinely inspired. Men believed in a flat Earth for centuries, but this belief was neither true nor divinely inspired. And finally, I would think that there are other holy books out there that have been believed for centuries and that are not divinely inspired or approved nonetheless.

They will say that the Book says the Gates of Hell will never prevail against the Word of God, and that's the Bible.

Doesn't the BoM make similar claims? And yet that's not enough to convince our friends that it is divine scripture.

They will say that the Spirit or "priesthood of all believers" validates it.

There are other holy books out there claiming millions or even billions of believers.

For example: the Quran has been there for a millenium and a half, and it has billions of believers. Does that make it a God-approved Holy Scripture for everyone? No. So why would those reasons be valid for the Bible?

No, I'm looking for an approval by God, since this is the only thing that would give to the Bible the authority that our Bible-only friends claim it has. Only if God Himself said that the Bible is accurate, complete and definitive can they claim that it is so and that God can't talk to men anymore and reveal additional scriptures. God can only be bound by His own word, not by the traditions or beliefs of men. So where is His word concerning the Bible? (Outside of the LDS canon)

Del

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That would be a validation from men, not a validation from God. The fact that men have believed something for eons doesn't make that thing true or divinely inspired.

Therein lies the problem, since all Christians sans LDS will claim the bible is God's word because tradition says so... Even though the bible is incomplete and was compiled by a group of men that claimed to be the authority to do so.

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So I was asking that question to all our Bible-only friends. Sorry I wasn't clear enough.

OOPS!

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I found in D&C 33:16

Interesting how the only clear instances you can find of God validating the Bible as the word of God are found in LDS scripture. Besides the above, there are probably a couple in the Book of Mormon too.

The one in the Bible that I am thinking of is in Ezekiel 37. But because it also validates the Book of Mormon as the word of God, the other Christians will avoid like the plague any interpretation that the stick of Judah is the Bible.

Hence, Ezekiel 37 will never be a clear validation of the Bible for the other Christians and therefore, relative to them, they have no validation in scripture.

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Because your questions are loaded and framed in a way to bring forth a nonsencecal answer

And how is that Roman? It's a great question that gets down to the root of the problem with the bible only crowd. So is it a bad question, or a one you can't answer?

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Because your questions are loaded and framed in a way to bring forth a nonsencecal answer

Uh??? How so? I am asking on what basis some people claim that the Bible is accurate, complete and definitive. How can such a question be loaded???

If it can make your life easier, then forget about my original post, and just answer that one question:

What is the basis for the affirmation that the Bible is the accurate, complete and definitive Word of God?

Del

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This thread is really interesting and somewhat humorous.

Virtually all of the lds posters are either troubled, arguing or complaining that God did not validate the Bible. Yet, at least I thought, they claim that it is one of their standard works and is therefor the word of God.

All of this generates a couple of questions for me:

Does the frustration stem from an environment or culture of control and obedience where one is "told" what to believe as opposed to reaching a conclusion on their own?

or,

Is this merely an attempt to lower the demonstrable standards of the Bible down to a level required to accept the BOM as the word of God?

Shouldn't one just ask themself if they believe the Bible to be the word of God and be done with it? :P

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Because your questions are loaded and framed in a way to bring forth a nonsencecal answer

More than likely its that you don't have an answer for it.

Think what you want ----that doesn't make it true------

If I thought the thread would go any where us antis might get involved---but just read the mockery already going on

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Virtually all of the lds posters are either troubled, arguing or complaining that God did not validate the Bible.  Yet, at least I thought, they claim that it is one of their standard works and is therefor the word of God.

You got that completely wrong. We LDS are the ONLY ones who can claim to have a proof that God validated the Bible: because He did so through Joseph Smith. So in fact, we are the ONLY ones who have a real reason to believe in the Bible as a Holy Scripture.

But when God approved of the Bible, He also made it clear that it was sometimes inaccurate, that it was incomplete, and that it was in no way definitive. Hence our refusal to be Bible-only people.

Does the frustration stem from an environment or culture of control and obedience where one is "told" what to believe as opposed to reaching a conclusion on their own?

If anyone is being controlled and told what to believe, it's all the Bible-only believers. They are the ones who are told that the Bible is accurate, complete and definitive, and who don't ask themselves WHY.

Is this merely an attempt to lower the demonstrable standards of the Bible down to a level required to accept the BOM as the word of God?

What demonstrable standards of the Bible are you talking about?

Shouldn't one just ask themself if they believe the Bible to be the word of God and be done with it? :P

We LDS believe that the Bible is the word of God. But we do NOT believe that it is totally accurate, complete or definitive, and as a consequence we do NOT believe that our theology must be Biblical-only. If some people didn't insist on telling us that anything that isn't in accordance with (their interpretation of) the Bible can't be true, then there wouldn't be any problem. IOW, we LDS are not the ones having a problem here: it's the Bible-only people who have a problem, because they are setting a standard that they demand we respect but that they cannot support.

Del

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Because your questions are loaded and framed in a way to bring forth a nonsencecal answer

Uh??? How so? I am asking on what basis some people claim that the Bible is accurate, complete and definitive. How can such a question be loaded???

If it can make your life easier, then forget about my original post, and just answer that one question:

What is the basis for the affirmation that the Bible is the accurate, complete and definitive Word of God?

Del

Your still loading your question. When you put the word complete in the question.

I suppose that there are certain Bible only people that believe that God is done speaking and has said all that he is going to say. But I just believe that that is true.

I see the Bible as our guide in the things Gods says----he gave us the scriptures as a guide in life and that we could know his nature and caracter---that we would know his voice and could know him intatimatly---when other voices speak---we can know they are not God---because it doesn't speak along the same lines as he showed us in the Bible

In no way is the Bible complete in all amnner of things---God is still speaking and revalation is still coming---but for this dispensation---he will only speak thru his word---which is far greater and bigger and has vast amounts of wisdom and revalation it it that has not be unlock to us as of yet---

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