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Repentence


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Good morning everyone, and I suppose, as it is getting close, it's reasonable to wish you all a very merry Christmas. 

I am interested to hear your views on repentence. In Orthodoxy, repentence plays a very big part in our walk with God, some might argue that we are overly preoccupied with it. For example, we constantly ask God for His mercy, obviously acknowledging our sinful state before Him. How do the LDS view reoentence? 

I hope this is posted in the right place, apologies if not. 

Edited by Orthodox Christian
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5 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

Good morning everyone, and I suppose, as it is getting close, it's reasonable to wish you all a very merry Christmas. 

I am interested to hear your views on repentence. In Orthodoxy, repentence plays a very big part in our walk with God, some might argue that we are overly preoccupied with it. For example, we constantly ask God for His mercy, obviously acknowledging our sinful state before Him. How do the LDS view reoentence? 

I hope this is posted in the right place, apologies if not. 

Since the words repent and repentance appear 313 times in the Book of Mormon, it’s safe to say the principal of repentance is of utmost importance in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. In fact, we frequently refer to the gospel of Jesus Christ as the ‘Gospel of Repentance.’

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7 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Since the words repent and repentance appear 313 times in the Book of Mormon, it’s safe to say the principal of repentance is of utmost importance in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. In fact, we frequently refer to the gospel of Jesus Christ as the ‘Gospel of Repentance.’

Although repentance for us us a way of life, we rather think that the Good News as Christ taught it is the Gospel of Life.

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4 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

Although repentance for us us a way of life, we rather think that the Good News as Christ taught it is the Gospel of Life.

The Gospel of Repentance is only one of the many ways we Latter-Day Saints express our understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We too believe the Lord Jesus Christ  is the light and life of the world through his infinite and eternal atoning sacrifice for the sins. But as all powerful as his sacrifice for sin is, the only way it’s supernal blessings can be obtained is through faith in Christ and sincere repentance.

Edited by teddyaware
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6 hours ago, SkyRock said:

Repentance isn't merely about sin.  It is about change.   It is about putting off the natural man and becoming a new person through Jesus.  It is about changing how we think and act. 

Can't give you any reputation points yet (you need 25 posts), so this will have to suffice: +1! :)

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7 hours ago, SkyRock said:

Repentance isn't merely about sin.  It is about change.   It is about putting off the natural man and becoming a new person through Jesus.  It is about changing how we think and act. 

Hi Skyrock, I absolutely agree. It isnt so much about being sorry for our sins as being sorrowful deep in our hearts for them and of course turning to God in the hope of forgiveness and His grace to help us change. The reason I asked the question is because I believe that some Christian traditions are a bit lite on repentance, rather, they prefer to emphasise the positive. However, repentance, properly understood, is a healing activity and which gives a kind of freedom. When we acknowledge our state before God and really look at ourselves we are freed from delusion, vanity and pride. It is a very liberating and positive.

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31 minutes ago, Orthodox Christian said:

However, repentance, properly understood, is a healing activity and which gives a kind of freedom

Freedom comes from obedience to God’s laws and that includes, since none are perfectly obedient, recognition we have sinned, understanding of the sin’s impact as best we can, and then repentance when we break God’s laws so we can be reconciled again with God through his Spirit.  To me that is as positive as it gets. :) 

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26 minutes ago, Calm said:

Freedom comes from obedience to God’s laws and that includes, since none are perfectly obedient, recognition we have sinned, understanding of the sin’s impact as best we can, and then repentance when we break God’s laws so we can be reconciled again with God through his Spirit.  To me that is as positive as it gets. :) 

Repentance is a major part of God's law,  the sacrifices of the OT were about repentance, reconciliation, and thanksgiving. So it is integral to working out our salvation as Christians, but of course now we approach the Throne of Grace through our Saviour under the guidance of His Holy Spirit. Amazing isn't it?

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5 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

Hi Skyrock, I absolutely agree. It isnt so much about being sorry for our sins as being sorrowful deep in our hearts for them and of course turning to God in the hope of forgiveness and His grace to help us change. The reason I asked the question is because I believe that some Christian traditions are a bit lite on repentance, rather, they prefer to emphasise the positive. However, repentance, properly understood, is a healing activity and which gives a kind of freedom. When we acknowledge our state before God and really look at ourselves we are freed from delusion, vanity and pride. It is a very liberating and positive.

As a young child, I had a negative relationship with repentance.  Now, it is one of my absolutely favorite things about the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  It is so liberating to take upon his yoke.  

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A friend of mine happened to post this quote before hearing of Tutu’s death today (obviously edited it after hearing).  I thought of this thread when I read it with reconciliation being one of my steps of repentance.

Quote

A quote that moved me so much I used it in gospel doctrine class:

From Desmond Tutu, Archbishop and chair over the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in South Africa. He passed away today at 90. 

“Forgiving and being reconciled to our enemies or our loved ones are not about pretending that things are other than they are. It is not about patting one another on the back and turning a blind eye to the wrong. True reconciliation exposes the awfulness, the abuse, the hurt, the truth. It could even sometimes make things worse. It is a risky undertaking but in the end it is worthwhile, because in the end only an honest confrontation with reality can bring real healing. Superficial reconciliation can bring only superficial healing.”

(TRC in South Africa is not beyond reproach, nor is Tutu. But we celebrate net goods when we find them).

 

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On 12/27/2021 at 6:19 PM, poptart said:

Big mistake a lot of Protestants make, you can sin boldly and do whatever, wrong.  You still have to live a good life and do good, it's proof of your repentance. 

The best thing I ever heard on repentance was from a Jesuit.  I asked him once what if I don't feel like repenting?  His response was "God loves us but he really doesn't care about your feelings.  You know the rules, you broke em. God knows it and so do you.  Confess, repent and knock it off. "

I think like any good parent God appreciates people’s feelings, but he doesn’t let them change the rules where that would invalidate the results. I think he is willing to adapt when it works, such as not requiring those who have never been taught the Laws to be judged by them, but rather they are judged by the law they have known, which means imo understood. 

Edited by Calm
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On 12/24/2021 at 10:43 AM, Orthodox Christian said:

Amazing isn't it?

Amazing Grace! I find it hard listening to this hymn without getting all teary-eyed.

 

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I love CS Lewis' description of repentance:

"Remember, this repentance, this willing submission to humiliation and a kind of death, is not something God demands of you before He will take you back and which He could let you off if He chose; it is simply the description of what going back to Him is like. If you ask God to take you back without [repenting], you are really asking Him to let you go back without going back. It cannot happen."

And Robert L. Millet in his book Jesus Christ, The Only Sure Foundation, says:

"Repentance is more than embarrassment. It is more than remorse. Repentance is a change of heart, a change of mind, a new direction, a new way of thinking and viewing the world. Such a course is both God-ordained and God-assisted; we cannot do it completely on our own. Repentance is granted and available as a free gift to man through the Atonement; through the grace and goodness of Jesus Christ, men and women are not only entitled to repent but also enabled to do so."

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On 12/28/2021 at 1:19 AM, poptart said:

Big mistake a lot of Protestants make, you can sin boldly and do whatever, wrong.  You still have to live a good life and do good, it's proof of your repentance. 

The best thing I ever heard on repentance was from a Jesuit.  I asked him once what if I don't feel like repenting?  His response was "God loves us but he really doesn't care about your feelings.  You know the rules, you broke em. God knows it and so do you.  Confess, repent and knock it off. "

I love this nutshell, albeit from  a very legalistic pov, I still like its straight to the point approach. 

Edited by Orthodox Christian
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For me as Orthodox repentence is lifelong, not because God keeps hitting us with our imperfections but because we of our own God given free will choose repeatedly to go our own way. Pride and vanity are two of the worst sins, but I read recently that our greatest sin is to ignore God, just cut Him out of your life, or never acknowledge Him in the first place. Through our Lord Jesus Christ's saving work we are reconciled, the way is once again open to commune with and be unified with God. 

Forgive me, I will often refer to things I have read, but I read a lot, and forget where I have seen something, so I may not give direct quotes when referring to written works. 

So, I read somewhere an Orthodox theologian, probably one of the Church Fathers, wrote that in Matthew 22 1-14, the wedding garment, refers to the image of God within us. Over time, since our baptism, through sin, that garment or image becomes soiled therfore we need to repent continuously to restore the image of God within us and from there to become His likeness. When we walk with God in repentence, His Grace restores through faith and repentence and forgiveness so that He can recognise Himself in us. We become His likeness, when He looks at us he sees himself, we are no longer ourselves but Christ who is within us. So, it is a lifelong work of faith and prayer and trust in God's Grace because He is the author and finisher of His work within us, with which we cooperate. 

Sorry if it is longwinded, but that is pretty much what repentence means to me. 

 

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9 hours ago, Orthodox Christian said:

We become His likeness, when He looks at us he sees himself, we are no longer ourselves but Christ who is within us.

"Christ within us" is a concept I don't recall seeing taught within Mormonism.  I'm curious about its origins within the Orthodox Church, does the concept have a basis in scripture?  And feel free to elaborate as much as you want, I'd like to learn more about this.  Apologies if I'm asking about something that should be obvious.  

Also anyone who would like to speak to this topic from an LDS or any other perspective, please do.  

Thanks!

*   *   *   *    

On the topic of repentance, in my (unfortunately disproportionately extensive) experience, changing one's behavior is extremely difficult without changing one's thoughts, since our thoughts produce our behavior.  While we cannot directly control our subconscious mind (from which most of our behavior arises), ime we can slowly re-program our subconscious mind by deliberately and consistently inputting corrective thoughts.  I went to Roman Catholic schools for a while and now in retrospect I see the repetition of particular memorized prayers as perhaps a way of reprogramming the subconscious mind (among other things).

Edited by Olmec Donald
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On 12/24/2021 at 8:15 AM, SkyRock said:

As a young child, I had a negative relationship with repentance.  Now, it is one of my absolutely favorite things about the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  It is so liberating to take upon his yoke.  

+1 :good: (Hurry up and get those 25 posts so I can upvotecha "fer rills," as we say here in Utah! :D)

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18 minutes ago, Orthodox Christian said:

Hi there, I don't know about Mormonism, but it is scriptural, but as I said in my post, I am rubbish at remembering where I read stuff, so if you give me a bit I will get back to you. 

Thank you.  I consulted the oracle (Google) and found multiple applicable scriptures from the 15th chapter of John and from various epistles of Paul.  I'm still interested in your understanding of the concept of "Christ within us", and/or the Orthodox Church's teachings on the subject, IF you feel like it.  But no hurry!

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