Police Chief for USU Police Warns Football Team re: Sex w "Mormon Women"

[smac97]

Here:

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Utah State police chief told football team to be wary of premarital sex with Mormon women

Nick Bromberg

Tue, December 14, 2021, 3:18 PM·4 min read

 

The University of Utah State's police chief told football players this year that they should beware of having sex with women who are members of the LDS church because those women may end up telling their bishops that the sex wasn't consensual.

A recording of police chief Earl Morris was obtained by the Salt Lake Tribune and published as part of a story detailing a student's Title IX lawsuit against the school. In the recording, there is laughter after Morris tells players that a Mormon woman could end up feeling like she regrets having premarital sex and report the encounter as a sexual assault to a church leader.

From the Tribune:

USU police Chief Earl Morris warned the team that LDS women will often tell their bishop, when questioned about it, that sex was nonconsensual because it’s “easier.” They might be “feeling regret,” he continued, for having sex before marriage, which goes against the faith’s teachings of abstinence, so they’ll say it was assault.

“And if you’re not used to a Mormon community, folks, I’m here to tell you, the Latter-day Saints community ... young ladies, they may have sex with you, but then they’re going to go talk to their minister, their bishop, priest, whatever you want to call it,” Morris said during a team meeting as the school year began — according to a recording recently obtained by The Salt Lake Tribune.

Members of the team laughed and hollered in response to Morris’ comments.

The campus police chief then told the players that no matter what prompts it, if they’re accused of assault, his officers are forced to investigate. And, he added, “the cards are stacked against you from the moment that happens.”

In a statement to the Tribune, Utah State said that it hadn't heard a full recording of Morris' comments but that "it is important to USU that our messaging and trainings reflect the university’s efforts to prevent sexual misconduct, reduce barriers to reporting, and respond to it appropriately when it occurs. The transcribed statements, as presented by the Tribune, are not consistent with the university’s trainings on this matter."

Utah State criticized for handling of sexual assault allegations

The must-read Tribune story details a Title IX suit filed this week by Kaytriauna Flint. She says in her suit that the school systemically protects football players from sexual assault claims and cites a 2019 alleged sexual assault as proof of that. 

Flint said she was raped by a football player in 2019 and saw a doctor in Montana the next day after she had traveled home on a scheduled trip. A university Title IX investigation into her accusation was ultimately dismissed this November after an initial ruling said it was more likely than not that Flint was raped by the football player. 

 

Hmm.  This seems troubing in a few ways.

First, the police chief seems to have a predisposition of skepticism regarding allegations of sexual assault.  He seems predisposed to thinking of them as being borne of after-the-fact regret.

Second, the police chief is focusing this skepticism on women.  His comment to the football players that "the cards are stacked against you" seems to presuppose their (the players') innocence and the falsity of the prospective allegation against them.

Third, the police chief is focusing this skepticism on women of a particular religion.

Fourth, his comments elicited laughter from the football players.  "Members of the team laughed and hollered in response...").  I'm wondering what, if anything, the police chief did in response to that.

The article continues:

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Flint says in her suit that USU president Noelle Cockett ruled in December of 2020 that the player didn’t have enough opportunity to appeal the decision in Flint’s favor and the case was re-opened.

Cockett’s decision to re-open the case came nearly 10 months after the Department of Justice said the school had mishandled cases of sexual assault on campus and failed to investigate others.

The three-year investigation noted that the school received over 200 reports of sexual harassment from 2013-18 and fewer than 25 went through the proper Title IX procedures.

Wow.

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Assault allegations against members of the football team in that time period were also included in the DOJ report. The report said the school got over 15 allegations of sexual assault by football players in that period and multiple players were accused of sexual misconduct on more than one occasion. However, the report said it wasn't uncommon for cases against football players to be closed not long after they were opened. 

And here the USU police chief is, it seems, preemptively expressing solidarity with them.

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Former player convicted of raping six women in 2019

In 2019, former Utah State player Torrey Green was convicted of six different rape charges and a sexual battery charge dating back to his time at Utah State. Green sexually assaulted six women from 2013-15 when he played for Utah State

Investigations into the first accusations against Green didn't go far until they were published by the Tribune. After the paper wrote about handling of four accusations against Green, other women came forward to say that they had been raped by him.  

So USU didn't investigate much until media coverage forced them to.

From the Tribune article:

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Flint was shocked to learn, as USU investigated her case, that the U.S. Department of Justice had detailed a pattern of mistreatment of victims at the school in a blistering report released in 2020. Federal investigators found that Utah State repeatedly mishandled cases of sexual assault on campus, failing to act when it knew about misconduct — which meant it was leaving “additional students vulnerable.”

The federal report largely focused on USU’s treatment of football players and fraternities, which both had members accused in high-profile cases of sexual assault and misconduct in recent years. Those cases received “minimal investigation” when a report was filed to USU, investigators found.

The northern Utah university settled the federal investigation by agreeing to improve its response in the future. At the time, USU President Noelle Cockett said the school would promptly respond to accusations moving forward and “should have done better.”

But the school has done little to improve, wrote Flint’s lawyers, Michael Young and Lauren Hunt, saying its mishandling of Flint’s case was similar to its failures in the past. And the same attitudes prevail, the lawyers say, pointing to the recording of the police chief as evidence that nothing has changed.

Noelle Cockett, by the way, made the news a year ago about apparent religious discrimination in the hiring process of the football coach.  See here:

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Utah State University's football team (the team, mind you) just canceled its last football game of the season.  Why it did so is . . . pretty interesting (from the Deseret News) :

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The Aggies’ game against Colorado State has been canceled “amid concerns voiced by (Utah State football) players about religious discrimination during the search for a new football coach,” the school confirmed via a tweet on its official Twitter account Friday evening after Stadium’s Brett McMurphy first reported the news.

According to McMurphy’s report, Utah State president Noelle Cockett voiced concerns about interim head coach Frank Maile’s religious and cultural background during a Zoom meeting with the team Tuesday. Maile, a native of West Valley City and a USU alumnus, is Polynesian and a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Those concerns left many Aggie players “dumbfounded,” according to McMurphy.

...

So what was it that Pres. Cockett said?  I'm not exactly sure, but we have this quote from a statement published by "the team" :

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“The Utah State football players have decided to opt out of our game against Colorado State due to ongoing inequality and prejudicial issues between the players, coaches, and the USU administration.

“On Tuesday, December 8th, the Utah State University Football Leadership Council held a zoom meeting with Noelle Cockett, President of USU, and John Hartwell, the Athletic Director. The purpose of the meeting was to have a say in the search for our new head coach. During the meeting, we voiced our support for Interim Head Coach Frank Maile. In response to our comments, their primary concern was his religious and cultural background. Players, stating their diverse faiths and backgrounds, then jumped to Coach Frank Maile’s defense in treating everyone with love, equality, and fairness.

“It is not the first time issues of repeated discrimination have happened. In December 2019, our head equipment manager used a racial slur against one of our African-American teammates. After disregarding the incident, pressure resurfaced to investigate in the summer of 2020. After the investigation, the administration concluded he would continue to be employed.

“We want our message to be clear that this has nothing to do with the hiring of Coach Blake Anderson, the recently-named head coach of the program. We are sure he is an excellent coach; we look forward to meeting him and his staff. We are highlighting the ongoing problems of inequality and want to create a better future for the community of Logan and Utah State University.”

Regarding Pres. Cockett and the USU's Athletic Director, "their primary concern was his {Frank Maile's} religious and cultural background."  I'd like to better understand what was actually said.  However, per this KSL article, the Zoom meeting "was not recorded by the university."  Per this article, "USU spokesman Tim Vitale told The Herald Journal  there is no recording of the Zoom call but that school officials wish one existed because they believe it would put the situation in a different light."

Here's the next part (from the Tribune) :

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Before the USU police chief made his comments about sexual assault, Logan Police Chief Gary Jensen told the team he wanted the players to “play good ball” and pledged to “work with you to the best of our ability.”

“So help us help you,” he said, “stay on the football team. Go to the NFL. Whatever it is your ultimate goal is.”

Jensen urged the football team to work with his officers, and to not demand a search warrant if officers were coming to break up a loud party. And if they found themselves in trouble, he said, they could text him “asking for a friend.” He did not immediately respond to a request for comment from The Tribune.

After the police chief said his department wanted to work with the players, USU police Chief Morris then said there was no tolerance for sexual assault.

In the meeting, Morris and the Logan department’s assistant police chief gave out their personal cellphone numbers for the players to call if they needed advice or had concerns that an officer didn’t treat them properly.

Morris has worked at USU as chief since July 2019 — since before the Department of Justice report criticizing USU and demanding changes was released. He previously worked in law enforcement at Brigham Young University’s campus in Hawaii, which is operated by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Utah State released its statement on his behalf.

In the recording, Morris said because of that previous position, he understood “the process” and that it was often easier for LDS women to say they didn’t consent while speaking to their bishop.

Flint said when she heard this recording, she felt sick to her stomach and started to cry.

A few thoughts:

As both a father to a college-student daughter and a member of the Church, I am concerned that Mr. Morris previously worked at BYU-Hawaii in law enforcement.  He seems to be partial, he seems to be presumptively in favor of athletes and presumptively skeptical about allegations of sexual assault.  

I am not oblivious to the possibility of false allegations of sexual assault.  However, Mr. Morris apparently handled that issue very poorly.  His remark elicited laughter/hollering from the fooball team.  Any time a law enforcement officer is talking to young men about sexual assault and they laugh and holler in response, those remarks deserve some reconsideration.

I am curious as to whether Mr. Morris made any mention of the consequences of actual sexual assault, as opposed to just warning the football players about the possibility of false allegations of assault.  After all, it may just be that the young woman, whether or not she is a Latter-day Saint, could very well be telling the truth when reporting an allegation of assault.  

Thoughts?

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited December 14, 2021 by smac97

[Analytics]

7 minutes ago, smac97 said:

As both a father to a college-student daughter and a member of the Church, I am concerned that Mr. Morris previously worked at BYU-Hawaii in law enforcement.  He seems to be partial, he seems to be presumptively in favor of athletes and presumptively skeptical about allegations of sexual assault.  

I am not oblivious to the possibility of false allegations of sexual assault.  However, Mr. Morris apparently handled that issue very poorly.  His remark elicited laughter/hollering from the fooball team.  Any time a law enforcement officer is talking to young men about sexual assault and they laugh and holler in response, those remarks deserve some reconsideration.

I am curious as to whether Mr. Morris made any mention of the consequences of actual sexual assault, as opposed to just warning the football players about the possibility of false allegations of assault.  After all, it may just be that the young woman, whether or not she is a Latter-day Saint, could very well be telling the truth when reporting an allegation of assault.  

This reminds me of a friend I had back when I myself was a student at Utah State 30 years ago.

A young lady I knew, who happened to be a member of the Church, confided in me that she had had sex with somebody and didn't know if it was rape or not. She felt really bad about it and felt victimized. What apparently happened is that she was alone with her boyfriend and things started to get hot and heavy. She wanted to play a bit but not go all the way. At multiple points in the evening she put the breaks on, he slowed down, and then things sped back up, and one thing led to another, and by the time the night was over she felt she had been pressured into doing something that she hadn't fully consented to. She had told him "no" multiple times throughout the night! But she stuck around and kept making out with him! The dynamics of such things makes me think that there could be an honest misunderstanding about whether or not consent had in fact been given.   

My point is that Mr. Morris's comments need to be kept in context. He wasn't telling the kids to go out and have sex with LDS girls because if a he-said/she-said disagreement ensued he would take the athlete's side. His words to the athletes were the exact opposite, in fact. He said if there is a dispute, “the cards are stacked against [the athlete] from the moment that happens.” His point was for the males to "make sure" sex is consensual, and to be extra careful about such things if the woman involved is LDS. That advice isn't awful.

[Chum]

BREAKING: Some police chief generates weird crap inside his head, says it out loud.

[bluebell]

11 minutes ago, Analytics said:

This reminds me of a friend I had back when I myself was a student at Utah State 30 years ago.

A young lady I knew, who happened to be a member of the Church, confided in me that she had had sex with somebody and didn't know if it was rape or not. She felt really bad about it and felt victimized. What apparently happened is that she was alone with her boyfriend and things started to get hot and heavy. She wanted to play a bit but not go all the way. At multiple points in the evening she put the breaks on, he slowed down, and then things sped back up, and one thing led to another, and by the time the night was over she felt she had been pressured into doing something that she hadn't fully consented to. She had told him "no" multiple times throughout the night! But she stuck around and kept making out with him! The dynamics of such things makes me think that there could be an honest misunderstanding about whether or not consent had in fact been given.   

My point is that Mr. Morris's comments need to be kept in context. He wasn't telling the kids to go out and have sex with LDS girls because if a he-said/she-said disagreement ensued he would take the athlete's side. His words to the athletes were the exact opposite, in fact. He said if there is a dispute, “the cards are stacked against [the athlete] from the moment that happens.” His point was for the males to "make sure" sex is consensual, and to be extra careful about such things if the woman involved is LDS. That advice isn't awful.

If that was his point he didn't make it very well.  No where did he say to be very careful it's consensual.  He told them it won't matter how consensual it is, she's going to accuse them of rape regardless. 

It's horrible that he told these men that if an LDS girl has premarital sex that she will tell her bishop it was rape so she won't feel guilty.  That's despicable.  

[bluebell]

32 minutes ago, Chum said:

BREAKING: Some police chief generates weird crap inside his head, says it out loud.

It wouldn't be a big deal except that LDS girls at his school depend on him to be fair and impartial when they come to his station reporting a crime.  

[smac97]

33 minutes ago, Analytics said:

This reminds me of a friend I had back when I myself was a student at Utah State 30 years ago.

A young lady I knew, who happened to be a member of the Church, confided in me that she had had sex with somebody and didn't know if it was rape or not. She felt really bad about it and felt victimized.  What apparently happened is that she was alone with her boyfriend and things started to get hot and heavy. She wanted to play a bit but not go all the way. At multiple points in the evening she put the breaks on, he slowed down, and then things sped back up, and one thing led to another, and by the time the night was over she felt she had been pressured into doing something that she hadn't fully consented to.  She had told him "no" multiple times throughout the night! But she stuck around and kept making out with him! The dynamics of such things makes me think that there could be an honest misunderstanding about whether or not consent had in fact been given.

Not an uncommon story, this.

And a pretty good secular reason to obey the Law of Chastity.

33 minutes ago, Analytics said:

My point is that Mr. Morris's comments need to be kept in context.

I agree.  I think it would be helpful if the recording were released.

33 minutes ago, Analytics said:

He wasn't telling the kids to go out and have sex with LDS girls because if a he-said/she-said disagreement ensued he would take the athlete's side.

Nobody would say that overtly.  

33 minutes ago, Analytics said:

His words to the athletes were the exact opposite, in fact. He said if there is a dispute, “the cards are stacked against [the athlete] from the moment that happens.”

Not the "exact opposite," I think.  He was presuming consensual sex.  He was presuming dishonesty by the girl (and, ipso facto, the innocence of the football player).

Don't get me wrong.  I think the risk of false allegations of sexual assault is real.  It's a risk inherent in the college sex scene.  But then, so is the risk of contracting (or passingon) a sexually transmitted infection.  So is the risk of getting the girl pregnant.  So is the risk of, as you put it, "an honest misunderstanding."  So is the risk of, well, actual sexual assault (whether deliberate or through impaired judgment brought about by drugs/alcohol).

All of these are real and legitimate risks.  But only one of them necessarily contemplates the girl being dishonest, and that is the one that the police chief talked about, and elicited laughing/hollering in the process.

33 minutes ago, Analytics said:

His point was for the males to "make sure" sex is consensual, and to be extra careful about such things if the woman involved is LDS. That advice isn't awful.

That's quite possible.  But I think it could have been handled in a different and better way.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It wouldn't be a big deal except that LDS girls at his school depend on him to be fair and impartial when they come to his station reporting a crime.  

If my daughter were a student at USU, and if she were to report an allegation of sexual assault, I would be pretty concerned about the ability of the USU police to fairly and impartially investigate the matter.  This is due to both USU's ongoing Title IX issues, and the attitude of the administration, and the attitude of the police chief.

Thanks,

-Smac

[bluebell]

18 minutes ago, smac97 said:

If my daughter were a student at USU, and if she were to report an allegation of sexual assault, I would be pretty concerned about the ability of the USU police to fairly and impartially investigate the matter.  This is due to both USU's ongoing Title IX issues, and the attitude of the administration, and the attitude of the police chief.

Thanks,

-Smac

If I was a student there I would feel incredibly uncomfortable in the police chief or any other officers' presence.  

I'm hoping that someone in that meeting turned in the recording of him because they realized how inappropriate what he was saying was.

[Chum]

16 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It wouldn't be a big deal except that LDS girls at his school depend on him to be fair and impartial when they come to his station reporting a crime.  

First off, you're right (as is @smac97's followup to you). You concerns stand on their own.

But here's the larger thing. Police spokesbots make questionable and false statements every day (eg: kids are at meaningful risk of stranger kidnapping, cops get poisoned from casually touching fentanyl), typically to generate FUD and keep the public needlessly concerned.  99.9% of the time, their crap gets parroted by press w/o any vetting and accepted by the public w/o question.

If we (society) are going to finally start vetting public police statements before amplifying them - as a matter of course - well that would be truly awesome. If we're not, cherry picking one outrageous thing or two while leaving the endless FUD untouched is kind of depressing.

[bluebell]

8 minutes ago, Chum said:

First off, you're right (as is @smac97's followup to you). You concerns stand on their own.

But here's the larger thing. Police spokesbots make questionable and false statements every day (eg: kids are at meaningful risk of stranger kidnapping, cops get poisoned from casually touching fentanyl), typically to generate FUD and keep the public needlessly concerned.  99.9% of the time, their crap gets parroted by press w/o any vetting and accepted by the public w/o question.

If we (society) are going to finally start vetting public police statements before amplifying them - as a matter of course - well that would be truly awesome. If we're not, cherry picking one outrageous thing or two while leaving the endless FUD untouched is kind of depressing.

I'm less concerned with statements made to the public, which can then be vetted in some ways by anyone who wants to do so, than statements made behind closed doors that the cops would not want the public to know about.

Especially when those statements are to a group of men about rape which slanders a specific group of women the cops have some authority over.

[Chum]

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I'm less concerned with statements made to the public, which can then be vetted in some ways by anyone who wants to do so, than statements made behind closed doors that the cops would not want the public to know about.

Especially when those statements are to a group of men about rape which slanders a specific group of women the cops have some authority over.

Again you aren't wrong but the path to this kind of broken thinking is to let the rest of it go unchallenged.

[bsjkki]

And people wonder why most sexual assaults go unreported. How many Bishops make the same assumption as this sheriff? 

[bluebell]

49 minutes ago, Chum said:

Again you aren't wrong but the path to this kind of broken thinking is to let the rest of it go unchallenged.

Who is saying to let the rest go unchallenged?

[bsjkki]

There are good reasons women lack trust in male authority figures when it comes to sexual assault. 

[Canadiandude]

From what little I’ve read of the situation, it was inappropriate for the police chef to have said that. 

Each allegation of rape needs to be taken seriously. 

[Emily]

Should have just flat out told them to keep their mitts off the Mormon girls unless they are married to one, because that's how God likes it. Enough said.

[Canadiandude]

6 minutes ago, Emily said:

Should have just flat out told them to keep their mitts off the Mormon girls unless they are married to one, because that's how God likes it. Enough said.

Um. No. That’d be mixing religion in the affairs of the state and the police department ought to remain secular in its reasoning to the public.

Keep ‘your mitts off Mormon girls’ unless the girls (Mormon or otherwise) can and do consent to having sex with you. Period.

It’s not the purview of the police dept to declare the existence of any deity, let alone what a hypothetical deity wants.

  
 

 

[katherine the great]

It sounded to me like he was more concerned about his office being forced to investigate all accusations more than the possibility of actual sexual assault. Pathetic. 

[strappinglad]

I wonder if the Chief has any stats to back up his opinion or even a few anecdotal situations. 

An accusation of sexual assault is extremely serious and even if proven false , will taint the accused for life

The sexual assault victim will carry the damage for life as well. 

The problem is , unless there were witnesses or good physical evidence , conviction will be difficult. 

[katherine the great]

1 hour ago, strappinglad said:

I wonder if the Chief has any stats to back up his opinion or even a few anecdotal situations. 

 

Of course not. There is however plenty of evidence to back up the fact that football player Torrey Green raped six women.

[bsjkki]

2 hours ago, strappinglad said:

The problem is , unless there were witnesses or good physical evidence , conviction will be difficult. 

Why most men get away with it and women don’t report.

[Calm]

Best research so far Imo:

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between 2 percent and 10 percent. The following studies support these findings:

A multi-site study of eight U.S. communities including 2,059 cases of sexual assault found a 7.1 percent rate of false reports (Lonsway, Archambault, & Lisak, 2009).

 A study of 136 sexual assault cases in Boston from 1998-2007 found a 5.9 percent rate
of false reports (Lisak et al., 2010).

Using qualitative and quantitative analysis, researchers studied 812 reports of sexual assault from 2000-2003 and found a 2.1 percent rate of false reports (Heenan
& Murray 2006).

https://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/Publications_NSVRC_Overview_False-Reporting.pdf

There are two patterns for false reporting, Will look for those later though

Must sleep

Edited December 15, 2021 by Calm

[Analytics]

14 hours ago, bluebell said:

If that was his point he didn't make it very well.  No where did he say to be very careful it's consensual. 

I disagree. The very first sentence of the Tribune article says, "the police chief for Utah State University told each young man to make sure that when he has sex that it’s consensual — especially if he’s with a Latter-day Saint woman.

14 hours ago, bluebell said:

He told them it won't matter how consensual it is, she's going to accuse them of rape regardless. 

It's horrible that he told these men that if an LDS girl has premarital sex that she will tell her bishop it was rape so she won't feel guilty.  That's despicable.  

There is a cultural divide between the LDS world and much of the non-LDS world. I believe Mr. Morris (or is it Brother Morris?) was emphasizing this point to encourage them to steer away from LDS girls when pursuing their romantic interests. 

I can understand why an LDS woman wouldn't want to be stereotyped this way, but if if your daughter was at Utah State, would you discourage her from dating non-Mormon football players? If so, you shouldn't be that upset that non-Mormon football players are being discouraged from pursuing sexual relationships with LDS women.  

[Analytics]

14 hours ago, bluebell said:

It wouldn't be a big deal except that LDS girls at his school depend on him to be fair and impartial when they come to his station reporting a crime.  

By the same token, people being accused of a crime have the right to a fair and impartial investigation too, not to mention legal innocence until proven guilty.

Remember the chief also said if a football player is accused of assault, regardless of the facts of what really happened, “the cards are stacked against" the accused. 

[Chum]

12 hours ago, bluebell said:

Who is saying to let the rest go unchallenged?

I'm not singling anyone out or saying this is someone's intent - certainly not yours.  I'm saying this is what we do.

I appreciate the space to rant. I'll let the focus return now.