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Random Polygamy Question


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16 hours ago, Rivers said:

Has there ever been a practice of a man marrying multiple women all at once in the same ceremony?  

In other societies or in the early history of the modern church?  I am pretty sure it has occurred elsewhere, but all sealings (assuming this is what is being asked about if involving the Church) have been done as a couple, though a man has been sealed to multiple women one at a time per sealing throughout a day I believe. 
 

A sealing doesn’t take that long, so a man could be sealed to many women in one day, especially by proxy. And that has happened.
 

This is anti plural marriage, but gives some info on how it was done at times…have no clue about accuracy.

https://www.the-exponent.com/mary-jane-wilford-woodruff-and-the-267-dead-wives/

More detail, also anti plural marriage, negative comments as well on transparency, not sure if accuracy:

https://tokensandsigns.org/the-267-hidden-brides-of-wilford-woodruff/

Edited by Calm
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Here are two quotes from a more positive view:

Quote

Many women becoming plural wives because of the mistaken understanding that they could not be sealed to their dead husbands and could not gain their exaltation unless sealed to someone as a wife.  For example, women who had never even met Joseph Smith while he was alive were sealed to him after his death; also, one woman had her aged mother sealed to her (the daughter’s) husband shortly before the mother died so that the mother could receive her exaltation.  Wilford Woodruff had over 400 of his dead female ancestors sealed to him as wives.  These practices seem to indicate that the parties involved understood that the man in question was more of a stand-in or proxy so that the woman could receive the marriage ordinance and thus her exaltation, than an understanding that these women were married in some meaningful sense to these particular men for all eternity.  For example, what can it mean to have a dead woman sealed to you, whom you have never met in this life, whose will on the matter you cannot possibly know, and who is in fact one of your great-great grandmothers?  Or to have your own mother-in-law sealed to you as a wife?  Or, in the case of a woman, to be sealed to a dead man whom you have never met, and whose will on the matter you cannot possibly know? These marriages make sense best as proxy marriages.  Indeed, when President Wilford Woodruff announced in 1894 that women could be sealed to their dead husbands (and children to their dead parents) even if the deceased had not been baptized before their deaths, many thousands of sealing transfers took place to rightfully reorganize family lines.

Hudson also points out that from a church manual it appears that there is also a doctrine of “transferability”.

When a man and a woman are married in the temple for time and all eternity and then separate, the children will go with the parent who is justified and who has kept the covenants.  If neither of them has kept his covenants, the children may be taken away from both of them and given to somebody else and that would be by virtue of being born under the covenant.  A child is not to be sealed the second time when born under the covenant, but by virtue of that birthright can be transferred. (Questions Frequently Asked About the Temple and the Endowment (Salt Lake City: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1981), 10

https://www.gregtrimble.com/what-every-mormon-really-needs-to-know-about-polygamy/

He recommends this for understanding what plural marriage may be about:

https://www.amazon.com/Women-Eternity-Zion-Valerie-Hudson/dp/1555177433/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1256621681&sr=8-1

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2 hours ago, Rivers said:

Has there ever been a practice of a man marrying multiple women all at once in the same ceremony?  

Serially, but not at the same time.  My great grandfather married two sisters.  It may appear to be the same, but it isn't.

 

Edited by Bob Crockett
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3 hours ago, Rivers said:

Has there ever been a practice of a man marrying multiple women all at once in the same ceremony?  

It happened to a friend I know whose wife (wives?) suffers from Dissociative Identity Disorder (formerly known as Multiple Personality Disorder). His wife has no less than 10 ‘alters,’ and unbeknownst to him he married all 11 of those alternate personalities all at once. He gets along well with 5 of the personalities, but with the other 6 he’s headed toward divorce . 

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4 hours ago, Calm said:

.............................

A sealing doesn’t take that long, so a man could be sealed to many women in one day, especially by proxy. And that has happened.     .......................

Apostle Orson Pratt debated Rev J. Newman in the Tabernacle in 1870, and won the debate on polygamy, even pointing out that marrying a mother and daughter was within God's law.

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3 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

Serially, but not at the same time.  My great grandfather married two sisters.  It may appear to be the same, but it isn't.

 

Supposedly football  player Ronaldinho married his two fiancés at the same time. Also, many men in India often marry multiple women in the same day. Then you have the Mormon practice of polygamy in which   Mormon men will marry multiple wives in the same lifetime on earth and multiple wives in heaven. In fact, Russell M Nelson and his counselor Dallon H Oaks both practice polygamy.  Both have been sealed to multiple women. 

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4 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

 even pointing out that marrying a mother and daughter was within God's law.

I would be interested in reading more info on that. 

My G-G-G grandfather's first wife died crossing the planes.  His second wife slipped on ice in Utah and died.  He was a bit older by the time he married his third wife (who was older too).  He had no children from the first two wives and his third wife was too old to have children.  He ended up marrying his third wives daughter and had 12 kids with her.  I come through the lineage of the daughter.

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2 hours ago, pogi said:

I would be interested in reading more info on that. 

My G-G-G grandfather's first wife died crossing the planes.  His second wife slipped on ice in Utah and died.  He was a bit older by the time he married his third wife (who was older too).  He had no children from the first two wives and his third wife was too old to have children.  He ended up marrying his third wives daughter and had 12 kids with her.  I come through the lineage of the daughter.

https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/etd/4776/

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6 hours ago, Mike Drop said:

Supposedly football  player Ronaldinho married his two fiancés at the same time. Also, many men in India often marry multiple women in the same day. Then you have the Mormon practice of polygamy in which   Mormon men will marry multiple wives in the same lifetime on earth and multiple wives in heaven. In fact, Russell M Nelson and his counselor Dallon H Oaks both practice polygamy.  Both have been sealed to multiple women. 

Dude, did you just drop out of the 1990's?  You're a hoot!

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7 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Apostle Orson Pratt debated Rev J. Newman in the Tabernacle in 1870, and won the debate on polygamy, even pointing out that marrying a mother and daughter was within God's law.

How so? Is there a scripture that justifies this? Lev 20:14 

If a man marries a woman and her mother, it is wickedness. They shall be burned with fire, both he and they, that there may be no wickedness among you.

 

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7 hours ago, Mike Drop said:

Supposedly football  player Ronaldinho married his two fiancés at the same time. Also, many men in India often marry multiple women in the same day. Then you have the Mormon practice of polygamy in which   Mormon men will marry multiple wives in the same lifetime on earth and multiple wives in heaven. In fact, Russell M Nelson and his counselor Dallon H Oaks both practice polygamy.  Both have been sealed to multiple women. 

Then all widows/widowers are practicing polygamy with second marriages because all spouses are eventually sealed in temple work. 

This gets really old. Grow up. 

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6 minutes ago, juliann said:

Then all widows/widowers are practicing polygamy with second marriages because all spouses are eventually sealed in temple work. 

This gets really old. Grow up. 

Ding ding ding ding ding, we have a winner! Do you even realize what you just admitted? Yes, the gospel of Jesus Christ is first and foremost about eternal polygamist relationships.  Heavenly Father has made it possible for us to partake in his eternal plan while living here on earth. If I’m correct, and I am correct about a man who is sealed to two wives is a polygamist, that means of the 17 Mormon prophets, 9 have been polygamist. Am I wrong? 

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1 hour ago, katherine the great said:

How so? Is there a scripture that justifies this? Lev 20:14 

If a man marries a woman and her mother, it is wickedness. They shall be burned with fire, both he and they, that there may be no wickedness among you.

 

JS is burning in hell then.

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1 hour ago, Mike Drop said:

Ding ding ding ding ding, we have a winner! Do you even realize what you just admitted? Yes, the gospel of Jesus Christ is first and foremost about eternal polygamist relationships.  Heavenly Father has made it possible for us to partake in his eternal plan while living here on earth. If I’m correct, and I am correct about a man who is sealed to two wives is a polygamist, that means of the 17 Mormon prophets, 9 have been polygamist. Am I wrong? 

Funny how you leave women with multiple husbands out of your ruminations. What was your previous screenname? Meanwhile, learn the requirements for being able to apply the word "polygamist" to living people with only one living spouse. 

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4 hours ago, katherine the great said:

How so? Is there a scripture that justifies this? Lev 20:14 

If a man marries a woman and her mother, it is wickedness. They shall be burned with fire, both he and they, that there may be no wickedness among you.

 

Joseph Smith married a mother and her daughter – Patty Bartlett Sessions and Sylvia Sessions Lyon

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33 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

Tacenda pointed that out earlier. My reply was that I think it was probably a sealing and not a “marriage” such as Orson Pratt was defending. I don’t know that for sure but that would be my guess.

In this article it specifies that Joseph was married to Sylvia Sessions, Patty Bartlett Sessions daughter. https://www.deseret.com/2016/6/13/20590178/joseph-smith-apparently-was-not-josephine-lyon-s-father-mormon-history-association-speaker-says

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2 hours ago, secondclasscitizen said:

Joseph Smith married a mother and her daughter – Patty Bartlett Sessions and Sylvia Sessions Lyon

See my previous post. JS was sealed, but was it marriage?  Doubt it.  I realize our culture conflates the two. 

Edited by mrmarklin
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2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

In this article it specifies that Joseph was married to Sylvia Sessions, Patty Bartlett Sessions daughter. https://www.deseret.com/2016/6/13/20590178/joseph-smith-apparently-was-not-josephine-lyon-s-father-mormon-history-association-speaker-says

I don’t discount the idea that he did marry the daughter. But I don’t think he had an actual marriage with the mother.  I think it was a sealing for eternity not for time. I’m not saying I approve or even understand these things. It’s very weird and seems strange and unnecessary to me. But I don’t see Joseph Smith having a full, consummated marriage with a mother and her daughter. I’d need a lot more evidence than I see to believe that.  Orson Pratt on the other hand, didn’t seem to have very many boundaries. It’s a fact he married a woman and her niece and fathered  children by both of them.

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9 hours ago, katherine the great said:

How so? Is there a scripture that justifies this? Lev 20:14 

If a man marries a woman and her mother, it is wickedness. They shall be burned with fire, both he and they, that there may be no wickedness among you.

I cannot now recall the point made by Pratt, but the entire debate is here,  https://www.gutenberg.org/files/51140/51140-h/51140-h.htm  .  And discussion here  https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/etd/4776/ .

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