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Hello, I wanted to do an introduction of sorts.

My background includes time in the LDS church, decades ago, as well as some experience with several other religions and/or thought systems. I have picked up bits and pieces here and there, and try to avoid the expectation that bits and pieces which “click” for me will necessarily “click” for anyone else.

I think we may have “signed up for different classes” down here, so if one person is being true to their lesson plan by following a particular path which looks like light and truth to them, that does not preclude another being true to a very different path which looks like light and truth to them. Or to put it another way, “what e'er thou art, act well thy part”.

I'm also a believer in an open canon, perhaps open wider than what any one people lay claim to, see 2 Nephi 29 verses 9-11. Hence the bits and pieces from here and there. And if/when I'm mistaken, hopefully I'll recognize it and make a course-correction.

While interacting respectfully here is my intention, at times I will probably get carried away on this or that topic. Please call me out on it when I do. After I finish swearing at the computer screen and calm down, I might even appreciate it.

There is a scripture which says “the worth of souls is great in the sight of God”, and I would like to think this worth is not lessened when one of His sons or daughters goes prodigal.

Edited by Olmec Donald
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20 hours ago, Olmec Donald said:

Hello, I wanted to do an introduction of sorts.

My background includes time in the LDS church, decades ago, as well as some experience with several other religions and/or thought systems. I have picked up bits and pieces here and there, and try to avoid the expectation that bits and pieces which “click” for me will necessarily “click” for anyone else.

I think we may have “signed up for different classes” down here, so if one person is being true to their lesson plan by following a particular path which looks like light and truth to them, that does not preclude another being true to a very different path which looks like light and truth to them. Or to put it another way, “what e'er thou art, act well thy part”.

I'm also a believer in an open canon, perhaps open wider than what any one people lay claim to, see 2 Nephi 29 verses 9-11. Hence the bits and pieces from here and there. And if/when I'm mistaken, hopefully I'll recognize it and make a course-correction.

While interacting respectfully here is my intention, at times I will probably get carried away on this or that topic. Please call me out on it when I do. After I finish swearing at the computer screen and calm down, I might even appreciate it.

There is a scripture which says “the worth of souls is great in the sight of God”, and I would like to think this worth is not lessened when one of His sons or daughters goes prodigal.

Welcome to the board.

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1 hour ago, Olmec Donald said:

Thank you sir!  Is yours the Hubble?

Yep! It used to be the Palomar Observatory dome, but Hubble's better. Once the James Webb telescope gets up there, I might change it to that.

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20 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Yep! It used to be the Palomar Observatory dome, but Hubble's better. Once the James Webb telescope gets up there, I might change it to that.

Very interesting.  James Webb offers the prospect of greater light and knowledge, but we'll have to look through a different lens and see at different wavelengths. 

Edited by Olmec Donald
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Curious about your present beliefs, why you left, are you a Christian, etc. 

Organized religion?  Unaffiliated?

It seems you have agreed with me on some points that were VERY Lds interpretations.

Of course some see me as "out there" while I see my views as Stealthy Orthodox.

I translate LDS Orthopraxis into Humanism for my human friends.  ;)

 

 

Edited by mfbukowski
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23 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Curious about your present beliefs,

 Good question.  I'll have to get back to you on that.

23 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

why you left,

I was excommunicated about twenty years ago.  The specifics would be a distraction, but church history was involved.  I no longer really care about the things that mattered to me then. 

23 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

are you a Christian, etc. 

In a sense yes, but that's probably not the term I would use.  

23 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Organized religion?  Unaffiliated?

No affiliations. 

23 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

It seems you have agreed with me on some points that were VERY Lds interpretations.

There are a lot of interesting concepts within LDS writings and doings, some mainstream and some fringe, and maybe some we haven't thought of yet. 

23 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Of course some see me as "out there" while I see my views as Stealthy Orthodox.

I translate LDS Orthopraxis into Humanism for my human friends.  ;)

About half the time I don't know what you're talking about, but the other half of the time I agree with you.  I think. 

Edited by Olmec Donald
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On 10/31/2021 at 7:01 PM, mfbukowski said:

Curious about your present beliefs,

Not suggesting anyone adopt or even consider any of these, here is a partial list:

- God is good and God is fair and God is no respecter of persons, and any line of thinking which leads to a different conclusion has a mistake in it somewhere.

- The love we give matters more than the ideas we believe (including these), or the mistakes we make.

- God does not hold our mistakes against us, but correction is essential for progression.

- Correction starts in the mind, and involves deliberately “choosing light over darkness”.

- We have no need to fear God, to fear for our own souls, or to fear for anyone else's soul.

- We are expected to become like Christ, and there are no short cuts and no honorary degrees.

- The worth of souls really is great.

- There is far more utility in actually believing the words of Jesus than in believing something about Jesus.

- There is no utility in treasuring our grievances, regardless of how “justified” they may be.

- The Christ may go incognito, disguised as the least among us, and we'd never guess.

 

12 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

For a true skeptic like me it is the value of the belief that makes it "true", not the alleged evidence. 

I pulled the above quote from another thread.  I think I agree with you.

In particular, the last item in my list above is absurdly lacking in objective evidence, but for me personally it might still have value.

 

Edited by Olmec Donald
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To one degree or another, we ALL are Prodigals.  I try to not say, "Dear Lord, I thank Thee that I am not as other men are," (Luke 18:11), but, rather, "Lord, have mercy on me, a sinner."  (Luke 18:13.)  While I might offer food for thought here or there, and while my particular perspective might differ from someone else's, I try to remember that each of us sees things not as they are, but, rather, as we are, and if two people are of exactly the same opinion on absolutely everything, one of them is unnecessary: Never will I think you're unnecessary.  Despite occasional glimpses of (frankly, startling, many times) clarity, all of us see "through a glass, darkly."  (1 Corinthians 13:12.)

Welcome.  I'm sure I will find your perspective on various things fascinating. :) 

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9 hours ago, Olmec Donald said:

Not suggesting anyone adopt or even consider any of these, here is a partial list:

- God is good and God is fair and God is no respecter of persons, and any line of thinking which leads to a different conclusion has a mistake in it somewhere.

- The love we give matters more than the ideas we believe (including these), or the mistakes we make.

- God does not hold our mistakes against us, but correction is essential for progression.

- Correction starts in the mind, and involves deliberately “choosing light over darkness”.

- We have no need to fear God, to fear for our own souls, or to fear for anyone else's soul.

- We are expected to become like Christ, and there are no short cuts and no honorary degrees.

- The worth of souls really is great.

- There is far more utility in believing the words of Jesus than in believing something about Jesus.

- There is no utility in treasuring our grievances, regardless of how “justified” they may be.

- The Christ may go incognito, disguised as the least among us, and we'd never guess.

 

I pulled the above quote from another thread.  I think I agree with you.

In particular, the last item in my list above is absurdly lacking in objective evidence, but for me personally it might still have value.

 

I agree with everything above.

For me objective evidence is scientific evidence, and that category of "truth" doesn't apply in religious discourse because religion is about purpose, like the purpose of life, what one should or shouldn't do etc.

I sometimes quote Galileo who said "Scriptures teach us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go"

For me, religion is about WHY things exist and science teaches HOW things work.<- this is an edit

You cannot answer why questions using scientific evidence 

Edited by mfbukowski
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3 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

[about Olmec's post] I agree with everything above.

4 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

if two people are of exactly the same opinion on absolutely everything, one of them is unnecessary

Um, mfbukowski, I got bad news...  according Ken, either you or I are redundant. 

;o)

Seriously, I thank you both. 

Ken, I agree with you that we are all prodigals.  I think the story of the prodigal son is the story of each of us, in one way or another.   And I really like your observation that we see things not as they are, but as we are.   So if we don't like the world we see, maybe that has something to do with the see-er (us)?  If so, one implication is that we are incredibly powerful, because we can change the see-er - ourself - and it shows up as a change in the world we see.

Edited by Olmec Donald
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4 hours ago, Olmec Donald said:

Um, mfbukowski, I got bad news...  according Ken, either you or I are redundant. 

;o)

Seriously, I thank you both. 

 

If you agree with Mark on absolutely everything, you need to have your head examined! :crazy:  (And Mark, whether he wants to or not, should be the first one to admit that! ;)

Mark, you know I love you, Bro. :friends: 

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44 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

If you agree with Mark on absolutely everything, you need to have your head examined! :crazy:  (And Mark, whether he wants to or not, should be the first one to admit that! ;)

Mark, you know I love you, Bro. :friends: 

Unfortunately you are right, but get your hand off my ear!! 

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5 hours ago, Olmec Donald said:

Um, mfbukowski, I got bad news...  according Ken, either you or I are redundant. 

Well I knew I was at least dundant  but the "re" is a little harsh! 😪;)

 

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6 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Well I knew I was at least dundant  but the "re" is a little harsh! 😪;)

 

Dundant?  Is that the same thing as a dunderhead? ;) :D  (Just kidding, of course!) 

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1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Dundant?  Is that the same thing as a dunderhead? ;) :D  (Just kidding, of course!) 

No it is the past participle or sumptin like at, in the locative case, silly

And I use head and shoulders to keep the dunder down

 

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