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“Wishing to be together does not make it d as so.”


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On 10/3/2021 at 2:28 PM, Duncan said:

it isn't a guarantee that your marriage will last into the eternities, if your marriage is terrible here but you don't get divorced I highly doubt God will honor it into the next life. If you want a forever marriage there then work on it here. I know some couples that I hope to God above their temple marriage doesn't last because who wants to be miserable forever?

What if they were to see each other as they really are, ask and give forgiveness, and let the Atonement do its work? No chance for success?

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9 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

What if they were to see each other as they really are, ask and give forgiveness, and let the Atonement do its work? No chance for success?

guess we'll see or what if they are like, nope maybe they have terrestial tinder up here?. I can think of some couples that I can't imagine they'd be together forever but it's not up to me!

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On 10/5/2021 at 2:38 PM, Rivers said:

I think John 17 just might be the most important chapter in all of scripture.

AND it seems that whole denominations totally ignore it!

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7 hours ago, Duncan said:

guess we'll see or what if they are like, nope maybe they have terrestial tinder up here?. I can think of some couples that I can't imagine they'd be together forever but it's not up to me!

I don’t want to underestimate the power of the Atonement to make things right.

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18 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

AND it seems that whole denominations totally ignore it!

The last time I stayed at my favorite monastery (pre-Covid, sadly), the abbot spent multiple days discussing John 17 during his homily. He was weaving together the Trinity, the mystical body of Christ, contemplative prayer as a means to find God within, and our duty to see Christ in others. It was focused on monastic life, of course, but was beautiful and easily applicable to lay life. 

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I think until we have a greater understanding of the nature of exalted life much of this is doomed to be forever speculative.

Once we have a lot of the false premises we have built up about the next life knocked down we will probably be ready to learn why things are the way they are and possibly be surprised and shocked that they are not the way we assumed.

I sometimes wonder what coming to understand everything will feel like.

 

 

Why is the koala smiling? What does he know?

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7 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I think until we have a greater understanding of the nature of exalted life much of this is doomed to be forever speculative.

Once we have a lot of the false premises we have built up about the next life knocked down we will probably be ready to learn why things are the way they are and possibly be surprised and shocked that they are not the way we assumed.

I sometimes wonder what coming to understand everything will feel like.

 

 

Why is the koala smiling? What does he know?

The Book of Mormon answers your question about what coming to know all things will feel like.:

41 And moreover, I would desire that ye should consider on the blessed and happy state of those that keep the commandments of God. For behold, they are blessed in all things, both temporal and spiritual; and if they hold out faithful to the end they are received into heaven, that thereby they may dwell with God in a state of never-ending happiness. O remember, remember that these things are true; for the Lord God hath spoken it. (Mosiah 2)

In addition, the prophets who were given the big, panoramic picture of God’s dealings with man, like the Brother of Jared, Lehi, Nephi and the Apostle John, were filled with joy at what they learned:

14 And it came to pass that when my father had read and seen many great and marvelous things, he did exclaim many things unto the Lord; such as: Great and marvelous are thy works, O Lord God Almighty! Thy throne is high in the heavens, and thy power, and goodness, and mercy are over all the inhabitants of the earth; and, because thou art merciful, thou wilt not suffer those who come unto thee that they shall perish!

15 And after this manner was the language of my father in the praising of his God; for his soul did rejoice, and his whole heart was filled, because of the things which he had seen, yea, which the Lord had shown unto him. (1 Nephi 1)

I fully trust the experience will be exactly the same for me.

 

Edited by teddyaware
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Just now, teddyaware said:

The Book of Mormon answers your question about what coming to know all things will feel like.:

41 And moreover, I would desire that ye should consider on the blessed and happy state of those that keep the commandments of God. For behold, they are blessed in all things, both temporal and spiritual; and if they hold out faithful to the end they are received into heaven, that thereby they may dwell with God in a state of never-ending happiness. O remember, remember that these things are true; for the Lord God hath spoken it. (Mosiah 2)

That doesn’t say anything about knowing all things and doesn’t even mention the koala.

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9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I think until we have a greater understanding of the nature of exalted life much of this is doomed to be forever speculative.

Once we have a lot of the false premises we have built up about the next life knocked down we will probably be ready to learn why things are the way they are and possibly be surprised and shocked that they are not the way we assumed.

We are building our worlds right now, and yours is one example.

My world is quite different.

I have already created most of my answers to these questions. :)

The koala? 

He just didn't listen to his mommie and his face got stuck that way!

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On 10/3/2021 at 10:57 AM, Rivers said:

I’m still a bit confused about the doctrine of sealing.  I understand that sealing extends marital status into eternity.  But what is it that keeps couples apart if they are not sealed?  
 

The doctrine of sealing has to mean a lot more than simply “being together.”  There’s got to be better language to discuss this doctrine.

Let's think about how God our Father would explain this to us, or inspire others to explain this to us:

God:  So, you want to be together forever as husband and wife, with the ability to reproduce yourselves into more of each of you, each of them maturing as teeny tiny little babies who may someday mature to become more like each of you?

Us:  Yeah.

God:  Okay, then you just need to be sealed together by virtue of a holy ordinance for that purpose.

Us:  Okay.

OR

Us:  But we don't think we need to be sealed by that ordinance.  We don't think that is necessary. We're just thinking we'll just stick together and do all of that reproducing, or not, if and when we want to. After all, what would ever stop us from doing that?

God:  Well I'm planning to send both of you to different places unless you both show me by this ordinance that you want to be together in the way I have established as the way people get and stay together. If you want any blessing from me you'll need to abide by the law that I have established for that blessing.  You do understand that I can send either of you wherever I want to send you, don't you?  I can't make you do what I say but I can withhold blessings and I can send you to wherever I have the power to send you.  Your choice, but blessings from me are predicated upon accepting the laws I have established equitably for everybody.

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On 10/13/2021 at 6:42 PM, bOObOO said:

Let's think about how God our Father would explain this to us, or inspire others to explain this to us:

God:  So, you want to be together forever as husband and wife, with the ability to reproduce yourselves into more of each of you, each of them maturing as teeny tiny little babies who may someday mature to become more like each of you?

Us:  Yeah.

God:  Okay, then you just need to be sealed together by virtue of a holy ordinance for that purpose.

Us:  Okay.

OR

Us:  But we don't think we need to be sealed by that ordinance.  We don't think that is necessary. We're just thinking we'll just stick together and do all of that reproducing, or not, if and when we want to. After all, what would ever stop us from doing that?

God:  Well I'm planning to send both of you to different places unless you both show me by this ordinance that you want to be together in the way I have established as the way people get and stay together. If you want any blessing from me you'll need to abide by the law that I have established for that blessing.  You do understand that I can send either of you wherever I want to send you, don't you?  I can't make you do what I say but I can withhold blessings and I can send you to wherever I have the power to send you.  Your choice, but blessings from me are predicated upon accepting the laws I have established equitably for everybody.

God seems like a pedantic goober in this story.

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5 minutes ago, bOObOO said:

I think you would think anyone being explicit with language is a pedantic goober.  God isn't always explicit with language, though, is he.

I am not sure you know what the word “explicit” means.

Or is this one of those things where you have a private definition for the word?

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On 10/4/2021 at 1:28 PM, Teancum said:

Oh but according to Joseph Fielding Smith they become Ken and Barbi dolls.  Their sexuality is taken away.

Yes, this is exactly what I was taught. Being sealed is just one step we take so we can live with our heavenly parents again in the Celestial Kingdom. Spirits banished to lower kingdoms have their sexual organs removed since they won’t be needed anymore. Don’t ask me where they’re stored after removal, I have no idea.

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20 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I am not sure you know what the word “explicit” means.

Or is this one of those things where you have a private definition for the word?

Here, take a look at some other words for pedantic:

precise exact meticulous perfectionist precisionist punctilious scrupulous dogmatic fastidious finical finicky fussy literalist literalistic particular picky scholastic captious casuistical fault-finding formalist hypercritical nitpicking pernickety pettifogging quibbling casuistic caviling hairsplitting overnice purist sophistic sophistical carping nit-picky over-exacting nit-picking hair-splitting careful exacting demanding nice persnickety thorough painstaking rigorous conscientious strict diligent choosy assiduous studious choosey religious attentive dainty sedulous ultra-careful delicate fussbudgety old-maidish laborious accurate discriminating correct critical finicking close hard to please selective detailed heedful searching elaborate refined punctual industrious conscionable squeamish over-particular persevering zealous minute methodical proper difficult faddy discerning fine stickling hard-working overparticular inflexible prissy busy active tireless persistent unflagging engaged occupied bustling mathematical working employed loving constant hopping sensitive overdelicate faddish keen plugging difficult to please impossible to please overfastidious obsessive fretful fuddy-duddy faultfinding unfavorableUS disapproving unfavourableUK determined exhaustive rigid pinpoint microscopic unremitting hairline unswerving discriminative right cautious duteous complex complicated fiddly spot-on trivial picky-picky old womanish old maidish unfailing faithful undeviating white-glove dotting the i's crossing the t's prim pure puritanical prudish sharp stuffy indefatigable untiring perceptive acute earnest unerring strenuous thoroughgoing impeccable fussbudget Victorian strait-laced schoolmarmish stickler loyal steadfast reliable steady by the book by the numbers overcritical unwearied swotty queasy grinding whiz tied-up eager beaver pass-remarkable very careful easily disgusted formal ceremonious decorous stiff conventional starchy stilted observant seemly civil courteous polite overconscientious formalistic stiff-necked right on good eye systematic judicious deliberate circumspect full thoughtful regular vigilant orderly scientific true alert prudent efficient literal tough faultless explicit fixed severe ordered watchful particularizedUS blow-by-blow chary itemizedUS logical discreet circumstantial measured stringent perfect absolute unmistakable complete defined infallible wary flawless factual veridical uncompromising guarded authentic veracious error-free structured truthful genuine solid just definite particularisedUK itemisedUK focusedUS matter-of-fact considerate intent dedicated methodic on the button cagey methodized planned conservative intensive leery on the nose mindful calculating provident gingerly safe tidy in-depth clocklike neat businesslike disciplined focussedUK systematical specific certain well organized spot on well-regulated errorless considered concentrated sagacious organizedUS deft skilfulUK skillfulUS concrete distinct calculated priggish ultraprecise canny on the money clear-cut uncanny politic reasoned suspicious unimpeachable stern regardful systematizedUS coherent intense deep hesitant affected apprehensive unadulterated narrow mincing actual aware together committed organisedUK systematisedUK dependable restrained well planned walking on eggs on your toes on the lookout playing safe well ordered well regulated on the qui vive on guard well thought out all-out soup to nuts comprehensive all-embracing all the way royal plenty all-inclusive whole-hog sweeping full-dress slam-bang from A to Z inch-perfect controlled omniscient nonrandom topical intrinsic appropriate thoroughpaced sticklerish astute concerned upright firm harsh selfdisciplined discriminatory tasteful specializedUS specialisedUK choicy unwavering sure minding p's and q's hanging in heart and soul into hanging tough unyielding stately dignified solemn select eclectic courtly going to great lengths balanced

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16 minutes ago, bOObOO said:

Here, take a look at some other words for pedantic:

precise exact meticulous perfectionist precisionist punctilious scrupulous dogmatic fastidious finical finicky fussy literalist literalistic particular picky scholastic captious casuistical fault-finding formalist hypercritical nitpicking pernickety pettifogging quibbling casuistic caviling hairsplitting overnice purist sophistic sophistical carping nit-picky over-exacting nit-picking hair-splitting careful exacting demanding nice persnickety thorough painstaking rigorous conscientious strict diligent choosy assiduous studious choosey religious attentive dainty sedulous ultra-careful delicate fussbudgety old-maidish laborious accurate discriminating correct critical finicking close hard to please selective detailed heedful searching elaborate refined punctual industrious conscionable squeamish over-particular persevering zealous minute methodical proper difficult faddy discerning fine stickling hard-working overparticular inflexible prissy busy active tireless persistent unflagging engaged occupied bustling mathematical working employed loving constant hopping sensitive overdelicate faddish keen plugging difficult to please impossible to please overfastidious obsessive fretful fuddy-duddy faultfinding unfavorableUS disapproving unfavourableUK determined exhaustive rigid pinpoint microscopic unremitting hairline unswerving discriminative right cautious duteous complex complicated fiddly spot-on trivial picky-picky old womanish old maidish unfailing faithful undeviating white-glove dotting the i's crossing the t's prim pure puritanical prudish sharp stuffy indefatigable untiring perceptive acute earnest unerring strenuous thoroughgoing impeccable fussbudget Victorian strait-laced schoolmarmish stickler loyal steadfast reliable steady by the book by the numbers overcritical unwearied swotty queasy grinding whiz tied-up eager beaver pass-remarkable very careful easily disgusted formal ceremonious decorous stiff conventional starchy stilted observant seemly civil courteous polite overconscientious formalistic stiff-necked right on good eye systematic judicious deliberate circumspect full thoughtful regular vigilant orderly scientific true alert prudent efficient literal tough faultless explicit fixed severe ordered watchful particularizedUS blow-by-blow chary itemizedUS logical discreet circumstantial measured stringent perfect absolute unmistakable complete defined infallible wary flawless factual veridical uncompromising guarded authentic veracious error-free structured truthful genuine solid just definite particularisedUK itemisedUK focusedUS matter-of-fact considerate intent dedicated methodic on the button cagey methodized planned conservative intensive leery on the nose mindful calculating provident gingerly safe tidy in-depth clocklike neat businesslike disciplined focussedUK systematical specific certain well organized spot on well-regulated errorless considered concentrated sagacious organizedUS deft skilfulUK skillfulUS concrete distinct calculated priggish ultraprecise canny on the money clear-cut uncanny politic reasoned suspicious unimpeachable stern regardful systematizedUS coherent intense deep hesitant affected apprehensive unadulterated narrow mincing actual aware together committed organisedUK systematisedUK dependable restrained well planned walking on eggs on your toes on the lookout playing safe well ordered well regulated on the qui vive on guard well thought out all-out soup to nuts comprehensive all-embracing all the way royal plenty all-inclusive whole-hog sweeping full-dress slam-bang from A to Z inch-perfect controlled omniscient nonrandom topical intrinsic appropriate thoroughpaced sticklerish astute concerned upright firm harsh selfdisciplined discriminatory tasteful specializedUS specialisedUK choicy unwavering sure minding p's and q's hanging in heart and soul into hanging tough unyielding stately dignified solemn select eclectic courtly going to great lengths balanced

This is very helpful you impeccable fussbudget Victorian schoolmarmish stickler.

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I’d add (albeit a lil late) that wishing to be together after death doesn’t make it so regardless as to whether the union was made within or outside the temple.

Like, I dunno, it just seems like magical thinking, now that I reflect upon my thoughts of the past.

Edited by Canadiandude
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On 10/3/2021 at 10:57 AM, Rivers said:

I’m still a bit confused about the doctrine of sealing.  I understand that sealing extends marital status into eternity.  But what is it that keeps couples apart if they are not sealed?  
 

The doctrine of sealing has to mean a lot more than simply “being together.”  There’s got to be better language to discuss this doctrine.

Here is some language discussing the doctrine of sealing that may be better than anything you have read in this thread:  https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/temples/what-happens-in-a-temple-sealing?lang=eng 

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On 10/5/2021 at 1:54 PM, ksfisher said:

I agree.  I just don't think it will be God fixing all the mistakes.  I believe he'll give those who made the mistakes the opportunity and ability to correct them. 

As a temple worker, we DO make errors in the ordinances, but we are instructed to do all we can and that in the end the Atonement and our intentions "make up for it"

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