Uptick in GenZ / Millennial apostasy?

[bOObOO]

On 9/17/2021 at 6:21 PM, rongo said:

Obviously, I disagree with this, but I do agree that the way the Church has handled some things over decades is a contributing factor. 

When you say "Church" are you referring to all of us who are born again into it collectively speaking or are you referring to our Mother, the bride of Christ, herself?  

She has handled some things as she has handled some things but I feel uncomfortable thinking she had any part in inspiring her children to leave her.  Sounds more like the work of our arch enemy, and some members not sticking together as her family.

[Amulek]

59 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said:

Maybe y’all are lucky where ur at. I seem to always be in mormonazi territory. Lol

I'm on good terms with at least three real estate agents in my ward, so if you ever decide you want to move to the real Zion (i.e., Texas) just let me know.

 

[rongo]

1 hour ago, Fair Dinkum said:

A member of our Stake High Council,  just had two of his children, both in their twenties, resign.  He is also currently employed in a very high profile position in the church.  Were I to mention his name several here would recognize him.  I just learned this today, so yes I've noticed this

Doesn't surprise me. It's the apparent "out of the blue" nature that is surprising, although from their end, it wasn't as sudden as it looks to us. They just spring it "out of the blue," and it's the first family and friends have heard of it. From what I'm seeing, part of the sudden "out of the blue reveal" announcement is to stifle discussion or attempts to talk about it. They want space and distance for now (but don't want to be "ostracized" or "shunned," either). It's a tightrope for parents, siblings, and friends, because they just got rocked by the nuclear bomb, but can't really address it, given the terms laid down, but need to be inclusive and empathetic, and not be perceived as "faking it." It's hard, because the young people are watching like a hawk for pretexts to be offended.

One of the mothers who called us told her daughter and son-in-law that they still love them and their children, of course, and this doesn't change that, but they need to see it from their perspective. Their sky just fell, and they are being asked (demanded) to not act strained or forced --- but also not to talk with them about their issues at all. They want/need to know "why," and what happened, but they don't want any discussion. Interestingly, the son-in-law's very inactive parents strongly advised them not to remove their names, but to have a cooling off period so they knew it wasn't a rash, emotional decision they might regret that is not easily undone. Very wise advice for a number of situations. 

I've just been seeing it in many unrelated instances all at once, so it has that "Sear's Call Center" feel of a hot trend right now to me. Different from the struggle we've had at losing, retaining, and keeping youth and young adults --- this is young families. And in many cases, the proverbial "child I would have least expected it of." Often, the parents are hurt that they never came to them with concerns, and in many cases, there was a solid and strong positive relationship. To be honest, I think many of these young couples don't want the help, and don't want their concerns to be resolved --- they just are waiting until they feel ready to "pull the trigger" on the exit. 

[Fair Dinkum]

9 minutes ago, rongo said:

Doesn't surprise me. It's the apparent "out of the blue" nature that is surprising, although from their end, it wasn't as sudden as it looks to us. They just spring it "out of the blue," and it's the first family and friends have heard of it. From what I'm seeing, part of the sudden "out of the blue reveal" announcement is to stifle discussion or attempts to talk about it.

And I'm seeing just the opposite,  it is the believers that don't want to talk about it

9 minutes ago, rongo said:

 

They want space and distance for now (but don't want to be "ostracized" or "shunned," either). It's a tightrope for parents, siblings, and friends, because they just got rocked by the nuclear bomb, but can't really address it, given the terms laid down, but need to be inclusive and empathetic, and not be perceived as "faking it." It's hard, because the young people are watching like a hawk for pretexts to be offended.

Again what I'm seeing is that these who are leaving are more than happy to talk about it but they are not interested in being preached to or told to read, pray and hold on.  They've already come to their conclusion and have no desire to revisit LDS truth claims they no longer find believable.

9 minutes ago, rongo said:

One of the mothers who called us told her daughter and son-in-law that they still love them and their children, of course, and this doesn't change that, but they need to see it from their perspective. Their sky just fell, and they are being asked (demanded) to not act strained or forced --- but also not to talk with them about their issues at all. They want/need to know "why," and what happened, but they don't want any discussion. Interestingly, the son-in-law's very inactive parents strongly advised them not to remove their names, but to have a cooling off period so they knew it wasn't a rash, emotional decision they might regret that is not easily undone. Very wise advice for a number of situations. 

No one should rush this very difficult decision

9 minutes ago, rongo said:

I've just been seeing it in many unrelated instances all at once, so it has that "Sear's Call Center" feel of a hot trend right now to me. Different from the struggle we've had at losing, retaining, and keeping youth and young adults --- this is young families. And in many cases, the proverbial "child I would have least expected it of." Often, the parents are hurt that they never came to them with concerns, and in many cases, there was a solid and strong positive relationship. To be honest, I think many of these young couples don't want the help, and don't want their concerns to be resolved --- they just are waiting until they feel ready to "pull the trigger" on the exit. 

I think they are where they are as non believers because their concerns have been resolved.  Now we can disagree on their conclusions but no one leaves the church because they believe the church is all it claims to be.

[bOObOO]

51 minutes ago, rongo said:

Doesn't surprise me. It's the apparent "out of the blue" nature that is surprising, although from their end, it wasn't as sudden as it looks to us. They just spring it "out of the blue," and it's the first family and friends have heard of it. From what I'm seeing, part of the sudden "out of the blue reveal" announcement is to stifle discussion or attempts to talk about it. They want space and distance for now (but don't want to be "ostracized" or "shunned," either). It's a tightrope for parents, siblings, and friends, because they just got rocked by the nuclear bomb, but can't really address it, given the terms laid down, but need to be inclusive and empathetic, and not be perceived as "faking it." It's hard, because the young people are watching like a hawk for pretexts to be offended.

One of the mothers who called us told her daughter and son-in-law that they still love them and their children, of course, and this doesn't change that, but they need to see it from their perspective. Their sky just fell, and they are being asked (demanded) to not act strained or forced --- but also not to talk with them about their issues at all. They want/need to know "why," and what happened, but they don't want any discussion. Interestingly, the son-in-law's very inactive parents strongly advised them not to remove their names, but to have a cooling off period so they knew it wasn't a rash, emotional decision they might regret that is not easily undone. Very wise advice for a number of situations. 

I've just been seeing it in many unrelated instances all at once, so it has that "Sear's Call Center" feel of a hot trend right now to me. Different from the struggle we've had at losing, retaining, and keeping youth and young adults --- this is young families. And in many cases, the proverbial "child I would have least expected it of." Often, the parents are hurt that they never came to them with concerns, and in many cases, there was a solid and strong positive relationship. To be honest, I think many of these young couples don't want the help, and don't want their concerns to be resolved --- they just are waiting until they feel ready to "pull the trigger" on the exit. 

I haven't seen or heard about much of this exodus from the Church where I live but I can recall hearing for years that it was going to happen.  Lots of talks about how living on borrowed light is not enough light to live on and how we each need a personal testimony from God to be able to endure in the Church.  Members of the Church are seriously flawed and imperfect as most people are so unless we have a personal testimony from God that the Church is what we say it is, the one and only church of Jesus Christ in which we can gain access to all of the covenants needed for exaltation, there isn't much of a reason to continue believing and stick with it when there are other options available, whether worshipping God or not.  I think this COVID thing had a lot to do with all of this too, with people becoming accustomed to not going to a church building for worship services.  

[rongo]

3 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

And I'm seeing just the opposite,  it is the believers that don't want to talk about it

Families with their heads in the sand (unequipped to even begin to talk about CES letter type concerns) certainly exist, but that doesn't describe these particular families. Close relationships between parents and children, exposure and enjoyment in deep gospel and Church history discussions, etc. The parents are hurt that the children didn't reach out for help or even to talk while it was festering, and they weren't heads in the sand, oblivious type of families. 

There are believers who will hum with their fingers in their ears with these sorts of things, of course. 

3 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Again what I'm seeing is that these who are leaving are more than happy to talk about it but they are not interested in being preached to or told to read, pray and hold on.  They've already come to their conclusion and have no desire to revisit LDS truth claims they no longer find believable.

They knew they weren't going to just be told to stay in the boat, read, pray, and hold on. I agree about the second part --- in this wave, in my corner of the vineyard, they have made their decision, and they only want affirmation and not only acceptance from their families, they want them to come with them and are upset when they don't want to. 

3 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

No one should rush this very difficult decision

Everyone agrees with this in theory (again, I liked that the very inactive in-laws were telling them to pump the brakes and chill out for a while), but they act almost consumed and obsessed with rushing to sever the ties with the Church. It's interesting --- on the one hand, they don't want any preaching or attempts to help them, as you said. But on the other, they are upset that their families aren't seeing things the same way. 

One couple I don't know as well as others I have in mind is the son of our bishop in our old ward. He and his wife and two little kids moved into the ward. He was the last of eight kids, all strong and active. My parents told us (we were housesitting for them) that they had told their parents they had left the Church and didn't want to talk about it. The poor elderly couple were devastated. I don't know the particulars. 

3 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

I think they are where they are as non believers because their concerns have been resolved.  Now we can disagree on their conclusions but no one leaves the church because they believe the church is all it claims to be.

 I think everyone agrees that people who leave don't believe any more. They are not acting at all like their concerns have been resolved with the break-up. If anything, they seem plagued with cognitive dissonance, and are going through a lot of unrest. 

[secondclasscitizen]

14 hours ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

None of the current first presidency served missions.  They were not draftees; they served in the military or National Guard by choice. 

 

Yep. Pres Nelson was of age entire ww2 and somehow didn’t end up going until Korea when he was a DR. Even then his tour in Korea was to visit some mash units or something. 
 

oaks was natl  guard. Never went anywhere and married at 20. 
 

eyring went in Air Force I think after Korean War. 
 

monson served six months in training at end of ww2. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by secondclasscitizen
Bad spelling

[SteveO]

7 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said:

Yep. Pres Nelson was if age entire ww2 and somehow didn’t end up going until Korea when he was a DR. Even then his tour in Korea was to visit some mash units or something. 
 

oaks was bark guard. Never went anywhere send married at 20. 
 

eyring went in Air Force I think after Korean War. 
 

monson served six months in training at end of ww2. 

They need to kill something for legitimate military service, or…?

[secondclasscitizen]

38 minutes ago, SteveO said:

They need to kill something for legitimate military service, or…?

I must be missing something. Please explain why you ask that question.

[secondclasscitizen]

9 hours ago, Maestrophil said:

I didn't choose this quote as the only one I am addressing here, but rather to just single you out to ask some real sincere questions as a member and parent who wants to be better while still maintaining my faith and membership.

To respond to the OP question - yes I have seen this trend among the generation spoken of, and those a little older and younger as well.  It makes me sad and concerned at the same time.  Especially as a parent who has over half his children in full rejection mode of the church (4 of 6), and the remaining children in a very 'slightly' LDS mode (2).  None served missions (and I never condemned them for their decisions to not go).

So what do you recommend a person like me - a GenX dad who is active and believing - can do to improve the experience for my kids and to have them either return to faith, or feel less bitter towards the church?  It's an honest question.  I express continually that I love and accept them even if they live very different standards than I do, and I honestly think none of them doubt they are loved by my wife and I.  Still - the 4 who have left activity are very demeaning and dismissive when talking about the church and even its members.

So what more can be done? Especially given that:

 - I don't think the church will ever change chastity definitions to allow for any kind of sanctioned sexual relations between homosexual individuals.

 - I won't join in with any badmouthing or condemnation of the 1st Presidency or Q12.  I can have respectable dialog about feelings and reactions to their words and policies, but will always stop short of accusing them of being racist, homophobic, or liars.

What do you suggest from your perspective?  Is there truly anything a member/parent like myself can do, or is the gulf too wide and the hatred/resentment of the church too definite?  Could your family/ward/stake have done anything different to make it so you had a better outcome and disposition towards the church - or do you think the fact that the church has the truth claims it does simply force a gulf and you would have felt disillusioned regardless?

I have no idea why your kids have chosen to become in active or leave the church so I can’t have an opinion on that. I can say though that if you make their church activity a condition of your love for them or use it as a reason to miss treat or belittle them you will just push them away. I have no idea if this is how you roll I am just making a suggestion.

I can say in my personal circumstance that my church leaders at the time were probably some of the Most verbally abusive and dismissive people I’ve ever been around in my entire life. It was either you follow the prophet and all of the ChurchTeachings or you were just a flat out piece of crap. Let’s put it this way some of my family still call non-Mormons heathens because they’re not considered to be even decent people if you’re not a Mormon. To this day I still have no knowledge if my parents even have any nonmember friends. 

 That said me knowing how they feel about other people who were all in Mormons vs the not so good Mormons I knew how they felt about me. Despite my being married in the temple, kids on missions, kids in college kids married in the temple, I was still a failure because I didn’t go on a mission and I have been flat out told that to my face. They take the program way too seriously and my not going on a mission has been a permanent humiliation to them. Many of their friends and family are the same way. Not all- many. 

Well I’m probably not much help because I don’t know your personal situation all I can tell you is this. One day you’ll be of age and need to be taken care of.  Your treatment of your kids may ultimately determine how much help you get from them. Perhaps your good kids who are solid Mormons may decide to go on a senior mission for a year or two and leave you in the hands of your apostate children. You may be surprised who steps up to help in the end. Trust me. Be Christ like. Jesus doesn’t care if someone is Mormon if they are a self righteous prick as some here would describe them. 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by secondclasscitizen

[secondclasscitizen]

8 hours ago, Amulek said:

I'm on good terms with at least three real estate agents in my ward, so if you ever decide you want to move to the real Zion (i.e., Texas) just let me know.

 

Of course Texas.. merica ! Man it seemed like the army was packed with texans. Pretty patriotic state. You guys don’t have elk so I’ll pass. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by secondclasscitizen

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, secondclasscitizen said:

Yep. Pres Nelson was of age entire ww2 and somehow didn’t end up going until Korea when he was a DR. Even then his tour in Korea was to visit some mash units or something. 
 

Right, because it's not like Dr. Nelson knew how to do anything that would be useful for doctors in M*A*S*H units over in Korea to learn, or anything.  He just went over there to visit them.  "Well, thanks for the hospitality, boys!  It's always interesting to visit someplace I've never been, but I've stayed long enough, and had best be on my way!" I realize the timeline is off so my analogy is imperfect, but what if someone such as a Dr. Nelson taught something to surgeons that, in turn, enabled those surgeons to save your life just after you had been brought in from being wounded on the battlefield, SCC?

[secondclasscitizen]

7 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Right, because it's not like Dr. Nelson knew how to do anything that would be useful for doctors in M*A*S*H units over in Korea to learn, or anything.  He just went over there to visit them.  "Well, thanks for the hospitality, boys!  It's always interesting to visit someplace I've never been, but I've stayed long enough, and had best be on my way!" I realize the timeline is off so my analogy is imperfect, but what if someone such as a Dr. Nelson taught something to surgeons that, in turn, enabled those surgeons to save your life just after you had been brought in from being wounded on the battlefield, SCC?

I guess that’s what I get for sourcing his Wikipedia page. So what did he do touring Korea in the army? His page doesn’t say what he did. I’m not saying he didn’t do anything I’m just passing along what his page says.

Additionally you can add in your wierd looney toon third grade antics all you want but making up silly commentary to pass it off as my attitude towards his service when I never said those things is a dishonest representation of what I wrote. You go be you though. 
 

So what did he do while touring Korea? And no I don’t mean a vacation it is what he was described as doing. The military sends officers to war zones all the time to do tours  and come back and write manuals and such. Probably some heart stuff but again the page doesn’t say and the last thing I’m gonna do is buy a book.  I’m betting you have it and can share.
 

Thathathatsa …  that’s all folks!?

Edited September 21, 2021 by secondclasscitizen

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, secondclasscitizen said:

I guess that’s what I get for sourcing his Wikipedia page. So what did he do touring Korea in the army? His page doesn’t say what he did. I’m not saying he didn’t do anything I’m just passing along what his page says.

Additionally you can add in your wierd looney toon third grade antics all you want but making up silly commentary to pass it off as my attitude towards his service when I never said those things is a dishonest representation of what I wrote. You go be you though. 
 

So what did he do while touring Korea? And no I don’t mean a vacation it is what he was described as doing. The military sends officers to war zones all the time to do tours  and come back and write manuals and such. Probably some heart stuff but again the page doesn’t say and the last thing I’m gonna do is buy a book.  I’m betting you have it and can share.
 

Thathathatsa …  that’s all folks!?

Read my post again.  I alluded to or implied what he did, both in the first paragraph of my previous post and in the question that I asked you at the end of that post ... which, of course, you have not answered.  And, no, I'm not changing my posting style simply because it offends you.  I was here long before you got here, and I'm sure I'll be here long after you leave.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Kenngo1969

[secondclasscitizen]

11 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Read my post again.  I alluded to or implied what he did in the question that I asked you at the end of my previous post ... which, of course, you have not answered.

You said “what if.” 
Are you guessing what he did or do you have done kind of documentation stating what the purpose was?

if you are so sure what he did why pose your response as a random “what if?” Analogy. Just spit it out. 
 

I care about what he did in the military about as much as he cares about what I did. Probably zero. The point is he served in the military and didn’t go on a mission. Someone else in the discussion brought up the fact the top three didn’t serve missions after I asked how many GAs didn’t serve missions.
 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by secondclasscitizen

[Kenngo1969]

54 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said:

You said “what if.” 

Are you guessing what he did or do you have done kind of documentation stating what the purpose was?

I have read about what he did in the military, but I do not own the books I read nor do I have them in my possession, so I suppose, as far as documentation goes, that you're out of luck, darn it!  Oh, well!  Life is like that, sometimes.

54 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said:

if you are so sure what he did why pose your response as a random “what if?” Analogy. Just spit it out.

The "what if?" isn't meant to illustrate what then-Doctor-Nelson did.  The "what if?" is meant to buttress the point that it is possible for what he did do to benefit even you, a point that, still, you have not granted even though I should think that it would be obvious.  But don't worry.  I'm not holding my breath.

54 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said:

 I care about what he did in the military about as much as he cares about what I did.  Probably zero.

As regards specifics, that may be true.  But, in general, I'm sure President Nelson has great respect for those who have worn the uniform and who have served.

54 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said:

The point is he served in the military and didn’t go on a mission. Someone else in the discussion brought up the fact the top three didn’t serve missions after I asked how many GAs didn’t serve missions.

Okay.

[secondclasscitizen]

36 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I have read about what he did in the military, but I do not own the books I read nor do I have them in my possession, so I suppose, as far as documentation goes, that you're out of luck, darn it!  Oh, well!  Life is like that, sometimes.

I believe you. 

36 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

The "what if?" isn't meant to illustrate what then-Doctor-Nelson did.  The "what if?" is meant to buttress the point that it is possible for what he did do to benefit even you, a point that, still, you have not granted even though I should think that it would be obvious.  But don't worry.  I'm not holding my breath.

So we don’t know what he did? I don’t really care because again the question was if any served in the military. For the record I’m not looking out for his action to have benefitted me in any way for them to be valid. I don’t know why you seem to believe I’m worried about how his work may or may not have benefitted me. Has not even crossed my mind. 

36 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

As regards specifics, that may be true.  But, in general, I'm sure President Nelson has great respect for those who have worn the uniform and who have served.

Okay.

I’m sure he does as well. That said you will never hear him at the pulpit telling the young men of the church there is any other honorable option to a mission. The church has said as much. He is excused. 

[Maestrophil]

13 hours ago, secondclasscitizen said:

I have no idea why your kids have chosen to become in active or leave the church so I can’t have an opinion on that. I can say though that if you make their church activity a condition of your love for them or use it as a reason to miss treat or belittle them you will just push them away. I have no idea if this is how you roll I am just making a suggestion.

I can say in my personal circumstance that my church leaders at the time were probably some of the Most verbally abusive and dismissive people I’ve ever been around in my entire life. It was either you follow the prophet and all of the ChurchTeachings or you were just a flat out piece of crap. Let’s put it this way some of my family still call non-Mormons heathens because they’re not considered to be even decent people if you’re not a Mormon. To this day I still have no knowledge if my parents even have any nonmember friends. 

 That said me knowing how they feel about other people who were all in Mormons vs the not so good Mormons I knew how they felt about me. Despite my being married in the temple, kids on missions, kids in college kids married in the temple, I was still a failure because I didn’t go on a mission and I have been flat out told that to my face. They take the program way too seriously and my not going on a mission has been a permanent humiliation to them. Many of their friends and family are the same way. Not all- many. 

Well I’m probably not much help because I don’t know your personal situation all I can tell you is this. One day you’ll be of age and need to be taken care of.  Your treatment of your kids may ultimately determine how much help you get from them. Perhaps your good kids who are solid Mormons may decide to go on a senior mission for a year or two and leave you in the hands of your apostate children. You may be surprised who steps up to help in the end. Trust me. Be Christ like. Jesus doesn’t care if someone is Mormon if they are a self righteous prick as some here would describe them. 

 

 

Thanks for the reply.  I am truly sorry that has been your experience both in the church and in your family.  That sounds like it would be very painful and would leave a lot of lasting psychic pain.  

I can tell you that I have never held the church or belief as a weapon against any of my kids - they might feel that they were judged simply because, as a family we expected everyone to participate in church on Sunday and FHE on Mondays with us while they lived in our home.  But that is the extent of it.  It's funny because IF my kids feel like we pressured them, I often got comments form members of the church who would say that part of the reason they thought my kids were not active/serving missions, it because I didn't force them or tell them the HAD to.  It seems you can't win either way.

Ironically, I know your hurt in the reverse as my parents left the church and for a long while were quite antagonistic about it and I was told very negative things about my intelligence, and put down for my choices - including that to serve a mission.  Things are much better now, but I still know the sting of being told you are dumb, wrong and a failure for your choices.  

Luckily, all my children still come to the home willingly and there is much love expressed all around, which I am grateful for.  I just wish I knew how to purge any of the bad feelings that might exist on the part of my kids, and want to act in a way that ensures they know I accept them as they are - which is why I genuinely asked for your advice/suggestions.

I hope time and circumstances bring healing and harmony to you and yours!

 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Maestrophil

[rongo]

10 minutes ago, Maestrophil said:

I can tell you that I have never held the church or belief as a weapon against any of my kids - they might feel that they were judged simply because, as a family we expected everyone to participate in church on Sunday and FHE on Mondays with us while they lived in our home.  But that is the extent of it.  It's funny because IF my kids feel like we pressured them, I often got comments form members of the church who would say that part of the reason they thought my kids were not active/serving missions, it because I didn't force them or tell them the HAD to.  It seems you can't win either way.

Often, a lot of the judgment people feel coming from the Church/Church members is in their heads. That is, they feel judged, stared at, thought less of, etc., even when those they feel are doing it are not doing it. This happens a lot with people who are apprehensive about standing out in church meetings. Many of the young people leaving the Church have family who are doing everything they can to retain and maintain normal relations, not make it awkward or hostile, etc., but this is only perceived by them as being very different. I think a lot of this has to do with self-consciousness, dissonance, and sometimes even conscience. 

[Maestrophil]

30 minutes ago, rongo said:

Often, a lot of the judgment people feel coming from the Church/Church members is in their heads. That is, they feel judged, stared at, thought less of, etc., even when those they feel are doing it are not doing it. This happens a lot with people who are apprehensive about standing out in church meetings. Many of the young people leaving the Church have family who are doing everything they can to retain and maintain normal relations, not make it awkward or hostile, etc., but this is only perceived by them as being very different. I think a lot of this has to do with self-consciousness, dissonance, and sometimes even conscience. 

I do believe there is truth to this.  

[ttribe]

3 hours ago, rongo said:

Often, a lot of the judgment people feel coming from the Church/Church members is in their heads. That is, they feel judged, stared at, thought less of, etc., even when those they feel are doing it are not doing it. This happens a lot with people who are apprehensive about standing out in church meetings. Many of the young people leaving the Church have family who are doing everything they can to retain and maintain normal relations, not make it awkward or hostile, etc., but this is only perceived by them as being very different. I think a lot of this has to do with self-consciousness, dissonance, and sometimes even conscience. 

Riiiiggghhhttt...it's all in my head when former fellow ward members look right at me in the grocery store and reverse course to avoid interacting with me.

These threads wherein believers declare to former-believers what's "really" happening to them are such a joy. 

[Maestrophil]

20 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Riiiiggghhhttt...it's all in my head when former fellow ward members look right at me in the grocery store and reverse course to avoid interacting with me.

These threads wherein believers declare to former-believers what's "really" happening to them are such a joy. 

I definitely am not saying that you haven’t experienced those things and that former members don’t experience judgment from members. I am just saying I think there is some truth to some people seeing judgment when it isn’t intended. I am sure there have been times when things I have done might’ve come across as judgmental when I didn’t intend them that way. 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Maestrophil

[bOObOO]

26 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Riiiiggghhhttt...it's all in my head when former fellow ward members look right at me in the grocery store and reverse course to avoid interacting with me.

These threads wherein believers declare to former-believers what's "really" happening to them are such a joy. 

Well at least we give you some options about what you could think.  When people look at me in a store and then reverse course I usually figure that them seeing me caused them to think of some things they forgot to do or get where they came from, so they were simply going back to wherever they came from to take care of those things.  So then I usually follow them to see what they were going back for and I interact with them there.  Sometimes people are just in a hurry and scatter brained and not very organized about how they go about doing things.  Sometimes when you really want to interact with other people you just need to be persistent while being willing to follow people wherever they go.

[MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, bOObOO said:

Well at least we give you some options about what you could think.  When people look at me in a store and then reverse course I usually figure that them seeing me caused them to think of some things they forgot to do or get where they came from, so they were simply going back to wherever they came from to take care of those things.  So then I usually follow them to see what they were going back for and I interact with them there.  Sometimes people are just in a hurry and scatter brained and not very organized about how they go about doing things.  Sometimes when you really want to interact with other people you just need to be persistent while being willing to follow people wherever they go.

This in no way is a surprise.  Your consistency is commendable! 

[bOObOO]

36 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

This in no way is a surprise.  Your consistency is commendable! 

My part is easy.  I am me and will always be me.  In fact I would rather be nobody else but me. And I'd like to think that other people are grateful that God made somebody like me.  And made me to reproduce too.  I'd like to and I do think that myself, sometimes.

Edited September 22, 2021 by bOObOO