Church Members in California Seeking "Religious Exemption" Forms for Vaccine, Church Saying "Nope."

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Why did you post this link? 

That's funny, I posted that link to him on Social with the thread by him, called Answering Misere Noblis questions

 

[Calm]

42 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

That's funny, I posted that link to him on Social with the thread by him, called Answering Misere Noblis questions

 

Yes.  He has posted it several times as if it supports his points.  I am wondering how it would do that, so hopefully he will tell us.

[Calm]

Posted before in response to the same claim about VAERS of Clark and Seething…

Quote

Question:

Is it true that VAERS says 3,000 people have died from the COVID-19 vaccines? 

Answered from infectious diseases expert James Lawler, MD, MPH:

No. Here's some context to explain the confusion.

After clinical trials, the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) is how the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) monitors vaccine safety.

VAERS is set up to capture potential adverse events caused by vaccines. It is the best tool we have to find what may be previously unrecognized and extraordinarily rare adverse events that may eventually be linked.

VAERS cannot and does not determine whether a vaccine caused something. The CDC states this clearly in their disclaimer: "A report to VAERS does not mean that the vaccine caused the adverse event, only that the adverse event occurred some time after vaccination." The disclaimer continues, "The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental or unverifiable

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/does-vaers-list-deaths-caused-by-covid-19-vaccines

An investigation of VAERS reports could find some likely candidates for vaccine triggered adverse event, even deaths…but a decent count couldn’t include any claims that just provided an description or irrelevant info plus a claim of death, yet gave no name or contact info of victim, victim’s family or doctor.  Anyone who made up a list like that for positive events would be shouted down if they attempted to use unverified numbers to support vaccinations, as they should be.  The reverse is valid as well.  Unverified claims of death should not be used as if they are evidence of cause of death.

The minimal should be to at least be able to verify who the patient was so the appropriate people be contacted to complete and correct information in the VAERS report and second, what vaccine was given them and the date of the vaccine and date of adverse reaction/death all need to be known.

Quote

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) requires health care providers to report any serious adverse event (including death) that happens after a COVID-19 vaccination – whether or not the provider thinks there is any link…

That means that if a vaccinated person drowns, gets in a car crash or is struck by lightning, their death must be reported to VAERS as an adverse event. Since we've vaccinated over 140 million people in the United States, many deaths will occur coincidentally after vaccination.

Can anyone here verify that none of these obvious incidental deaths were used in the 15,000+ number for claimed vaccine caused deaths?

If they were, Clark and Seething, do you agree the number should be not used again until all such deaths are removed as possibilities of vaccine triggered deaths?

Edited October 7, 2021 by Calm

[The Nehor]

Have a scary video about covid misinformation in less developed nations.

That guys kidneys are clearly about to give up. Not healthy at all.

[Calm]

https://vaersanalysis.info/2021/09/21/what-does-the-quality-of-the-vaers-data-tell-us-about-the-most-intense-safety-monitoring-in-us-history/
 

This link makes it clear (from the site posted by Harry C that claims the site “tracks the VAERS reports and says that since the vaccine rollout last december, there have been 15,937 deaths reported as being caused by the vaccines”) that specific numbers should be suspected rather than embraced without question….so why do those running the site do exactly what they warn shouldn’t be done?

Quote

So VAERS could seriously use a data cleansing operation. Vaccination and death dates and other information should be verified and re-verified with the original report submitter….

Further, for many records, there is often missing data (such as age) which is actually readily available in another part of the record, specifically in the Symptom_Text field….The fact that VAERS has tens of thousands of records with things like missing age data, speaks volumes about the CDC’s lack of concern regarding safety monitoring.

Edited to remove condemnation of CDC for lack of investment to improve accuracy and completeness and thus usefulness, as I doubt there is debate about that.  Using this to show the numbers of problematic entries…which means depending on the method of identifying the claimed vaccine triggered deaths, the numbers obtained could be heavily impacted and riddled with errors.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Calm

[Calm]

5 hours ago, Harry T. Clark said:

VAERS was set up in consultation with the pharmaceutical industry over here, precisely so doubt could be raised regarding adverse reactions and deliberate avoidance of investigation could occur.

Who would know about these adverse reactions without VAERS save for those directly involved and a few friends and neighbors they told?  How does creating a report making public an event be more likely to avoid investigation than not making it public at all?

added:  so apparently those less enthused with vaccines for Covid like to point to a Harvard study that proves less than 1% of vaccine side effects incidents or adverse events are reported.  I have been reading several sites that focus on the Harvard Pilgrim work and mentioned it was dropped, supposedly ghosted by the CDC when the report suggested the cdc could do a lot better.

They are apparently unaware of a later study along the same lines.

https://vaxopedia.org/2019/09/03/percentage-of-reports-to-vaers/
 

Quote

And there has even been a more recent report, Advanced Clinical Decision Support for Vaccine Adverse Event Detection and Reporting, which also used an ESP-VAERS system, that found great improvements in reporting of adverse events to VAERS.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26060294/

I am getting the impression that VAERS is an early warning system; not expected to inform about the size, specific numbers, types of enemies/issues out there, instead expected to alert to “something is out there in that direction”, which then allows researchers to know where they should start looking rather than take random shots in the dark or based on a few anecdotes.

Given the cost of time in the middle of a pandemic, this seems a intelligent approach.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Calm

[Calm]

I may have tracked down the original source of the 15,900+ deaths claim….

Quote

Found 15,937 cases where Vaccine is COVID19 and Patient Died

It does not say Covid vaccine caused the deaths, just that searching “Covid 19” for vaccine on VAERS, there were 15,937 reports that had “yes” under “died”

https://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/findfield.php?TABLE=ON&GROUP1=AGE&EVENTS=ON&VAX=COVID19&DIED=Yes

It gives the reports.  The first one is impressive with the foaming at the mounts, but there are a number of confounding conditions, such as the patient had refused to do his dialysis—which can kill you—that make me wonder how probable it it….need a doctor or someone who cam explain what the SMQs are and their implications.  Second report, patient had advanced dementia and decreased oral intake…flashback to Mom not wanting to drink because that meant having to go to the bathroom, I am guessing she became dehydrated a few times (one time was confirmed by the medical caregivers), refused to go to lunch and dinner as too much effort and not hungry.  I would therefore like to know the cause of the oral decrease and if it had been going on prior to the vaccine or not.  
 

But both of these should be researched as possibilities.

Third one sounds like Mom again except 6 years younger, had advanced Alzheimer’s and type 2 diabetes .  Dead in 12 hours of vaccine.  Should be investigated, but Mom was there one moment and gone with a stroke the next.  That age and health…lots of possibilities for quick deaths.

Four needs to be tossed IMO as the person reporting provided not enough info, likely because they didn’t believe the vaccine caused the death,  it understood anything like that should be reported anyway.

Fifth report just states 4 days later the patient died in their sleep.

None of these comes close to demonstrating a Covid vaccine death and yet are included in the 15,937 number which is then treated as if absolute by many.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Calm

[Stargazer]

On 10/3/2021 at 3:24 PM, sheilauk said:

The figure for measles is worldwide.  So far COVID-19 is said to have caused 4.8 million deaths worldwide.  Even if you think that’s exaggerated due to how it’s counted, at half the number, it’s close to the measles figure and Covid-19 is still going. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-toll/

millions are sick and dying worldwide.  Countries in Africa and Asia are desperate for the vaccine and privileged westerners, with easy access to the vaccine, healthcare and other prevention measures are whining about them.  I don’t understand it.  None of it is any harder or more demanding than wearing a seatbelt or getting a flu shot.  And by failing to take simple steps, the pandemic rages on and is prolonged.

I agree totally.

But on the other hand, if our idiots don't want the vaccine, we can ship it to the less-privileged countries and they can have what our idiots reject.

And perhaps our fraction of idiots will be diminished over time, due to natural selection.

Given that the vaccine doesn't seem to have total preventative value, this pandemic is going to around for a good while, and that makes the natural selection part more important than it was with polio and measles.  

[Hamba Tuhan]

13 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

But on the other hand, if our idiots don't want the vaccine, we can ship it to the less-privileged countries and they can have what our idiots reject.

As you will know, we have really struggled with vaccine supply here until recently, but thanks to shipments from America, today my jurisdiction hit 95.38 per cent of our adult population vaccinated with at least one dose.

'Adult' for us, by the way, is 16+, but we're already over 80 per cent for ages 12 to 15.

Much appreciated!

'But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace'.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[Stargazer]

On 10/6/2021 at 12:32 AM, Hamba Tuhan said:

She also posted a video from a 'doctor' who was explaining how Covid isn't real but is just an excuse for government to violate personal liberties.

Hopefully, she doesn't perish from her belief in a false prophet.

In connection with the italicized theory, however, there may be grounds for legitimate concern. Some governments seem to have become too enthusiastic about the imposition of control over their citizens' activities. Control which may be unwarranted, and which may not be willingly relinquished once the pandemic subsides (if it ever does). There are some who regard such concerns for governmental overreach as conspiracy theorizing, and obviously there's room for this becoming such (evidence: your relative), but that doesn't make the concern without merit.

[Hamba Tuhan]

38 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Hopefully, she doesn't perish from her belief in a false prophet.

It's entirely possible that she will. This Moutsos guy appears to have quite a few disciples, including two of my American friends. One of them is the one I posted about some weeks ago who lost both her father and brother to Covid within just a few days of each other. Unapologetically unvaccinated, of course.

Edited October 7, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[Calm]

58 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Given that the vaccine doesn't seem to have total preventative value, this pandemic is going to around for a good while, and that makes the natural selection part more important than it was with polio and measles.  

Is there DNA for believers in foolish conspiracies or for overcommitment to political parties and such?  Do they tend to manifest before they have reproduced or not? If after parenthood, would natural selection affect that?  I suppose one could apply it to natural selection of ideas…the more who die who hold to an idea, the fewer to spread it to the next generations.

[Stargazer]

Nevermind

Edited October 7, 2021 by Stargazer

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Is there DNA for believers in foolish conspiracies or for overcommitment to political parties and such?  

There might be. But I don't know how one would go about designing a study to determine it. But what to do about it if there were such DNA? Forbid them to reproduce? LOL. 

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Do they tend to manifest before they have reproduced or not? If after parenthood, would natural selection affect that?  I suppose one could apply it to natural selection of ideas…the more who die who hold to an idea, the fewer to spread it to the next generations.

Actually I was kind of joking.  

Many or most toxic ideas do not cause fatalities. How many people who, for example, fail to get proper educations (drop out of high school, etc) and then upon finding themselves in horrible economic situations realize that they screwed up? Whether they do or not, they're still alive at least. Usually. And even if they don't realize that they screwed up, they don't usually go around trying to convince others to take their own failed path.

Those who eschew vaccination because of one stupid idea or another, die at the same rate as those who fail to get vaccinated through no fault of their own. 

[MiserereNobis]

8 hours ago, Tacenda said:

That's funny, I posted that link to him on Social with the thread by him, called Answering Misere Noblis questions

 

He started a thread somewhere with that title?

[CA Steve]

BBC article on how bad science is being used to prop up the use of Ivermectin.

Ivermectin: How false science created a Covid 'miracle' drug

From the article.

 

Quote

The hype around ivermectin - based on the strength of belief in the research - has driven large numbers of people around the world to use it.

Campaigners for the drug point to a number of scientific studies and often claim this evidence is being ignored or covered up. But a review by a group of independent scientists has cast serious doubt on that body of research.

The BBC can reveal that more than a third of 26 major trials of the drug for use on Covid have serious errors or signs of potential fraud. None of the rest show convincing evidence of ivermectin's effectiveness.

Dr Kyle Sheldrick, one of the group investigating the studies, said they had not found "a single clinical trial" claiming to show that ivermectin prevented Covid deaths that did not contain "either obvious signs of fabrication or errors so critical they invalidate the study".

Major problems included:

The same patient data being used multiple times for supposedly different people

Evidence that selection of patients for test groups was not random

Numbers unlikely to occur naturally

Percentages calculated incorrectly

Local health bodies unaware of the studies

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by CA Steve

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

Actually I was kind of joking.  

Middle of the night, fresh dose of weed …my mind will wander anywhere…

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

Those who eschew vaccination because of one stupid idea or another, die at the same rate as those who fail to get vaccinated through no fault of their own. 

Maybe not. Maybe those who can’t get it are doing other stuff to avoid it where the unvaccinated by choice are less cautious. 

[Calm]

30 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

He started a thread somewhere with that title?

social…it will likely be moved or locked as inappropriate, but if he isn’t up to 25 posts yet, he may not have wanted to wait.….he was there in a few hours.  Lot of repetition in my view. 

https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/74059-answering-misere-noblis-questions/?tab=comments#comment-1210058873

Edited October 7, 2021 by Calm

[Stargazer]

6 minutes ago, Calm said:

Maybe not. Maybe those who can’t get it are doing other stuff to avoid it where the unvaccinated by choice are less cautious. 

Good point!

 

[BlueDreams]

3 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Hopefully, she doesn't perish from her belief in a false prophet.

In connection with the italicized theory, however, there may be grounds for legitimate concern. Some governments seem to have become too enthusiastic about the imposition of control over their citizens' activities. Control which may be unwarranted, and which may not be willingly relinquished once the pandemic subsides (if it ever does). There are some who regard such concerns for governmental overreach as conspiracy theorizing, and obviously there's room for this becoming such (evidence: your relative), but that doesn't make the concern without merit.

Yes, it’s true that there are signs that governments using the pandemic as a means to consolidate power. But what’s glossed over is where and how. The greatest offenses are from nations that already had weakening democracies or were authoritarian in structure (See here). My problem with this line of concern is that usually people concerned with this are assuming that just about any form of mandates, regulations, restrictions, or safety measures are a sign of government overreach or encroachment on “liberties.” Whether one agrees with them or not, there is a strong difference between health related measures to curb a disease or legal pushes to fight misinformation and crackdowns on unwanted political groups or ethnic minorities and imprisoning/silencing dissent or journalists for covering unflattering news to bolster a strongman leader. 
 

with luv, 

BD 

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by BlueDreams

[Stargazer]

1 minute ago, BlueDreams said:

Yes, it’s true that there are signs that governments using the pandemic as a means yo consolidate power. But what’s glossed over is where and how.

Well, yes, but I wasn't glossing over the where and how, just avoiding naming names.

Canada, New Zealand, and Australia seem to be the places where this is happening more than other English-speaking countries. Living in the UK these days, I am more concerned about what happens here than there in the US. I see some overreach in the US, but not really that much. The UK seems to be quite sane in this regard. Since mid-July the government has loosened the requirement for mask wearing to certain venues (such as pharmacies). My nurse wife likes to mask up when we go grocery shopping, and if I'm with her I do it, too, for the sake of the appearance of unity, but not if I'm by myself. But she spends a large part of her workday masked up anyway, being that she is a theater nurse (surgery), so she's used to it.

1 minute ago, BlueDreams said:

The greatest offenses are from nations that already had weakening democracies or we’re authoritarian in structure (See here). My problem with this line of concern is that usually people concerned with this are assuming that just about any form of mandates, regulations, restrictions, or safety measures are a sign of government overreach or encroachment on “liberties.”

Having been involved with griumpy groups who hate taxation (who likes it?) and other governmental inroads into personal freedom, I can tell you that these folks have existed for decades, and there's nothing new under this particular sun.

1 minute ago, BlueDreams said:

Whether one agrees with them or not, there is a strong difference between health related measures to curb a disease or legal pushes to fight misinformation and crackdowns on unwanted political groups or ethnic minorities and imprisoning/silencing dissent or journalists for covering unflattering news to bolster a strongman leader. 

Yes, there's a difference. May the US government not be tempted into silencing dissent and journalists because of fear of unflattering news. That would be bad.

[Stargazer]

Here's some interesting news about Norway, Singapore, and Covid.

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by Stargazer

[pogi]

10 hours ago, strappinglad said:

I recently watched an ' expert ' say that cases of myocarditis may have come because of improperly injecting the vaccine into a vein in the arm instead of the muscle. He said they should draw back the suringe to see if they see blood and if seen they likely hit a vein and should try another spot. 

Not likely.  "Drawing back" or "aspirating" the syringe is old-school practice and is no longer considered best-practice with vaccinations.  It is hard enough to get a needle in a vein when you are trying to insert an IV into the biggest vein you can find and at the proper angle to the vein, let alone when you are injecting a needle on a 90 degree angle to the vein and going an inch deep into a muscle where there are no large vessels.  The chance of injecting into a vein is nearly impossible.      

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5333604/

Quote

 

 Aspiration before injection of vaccines or toxoids (i.e., pulling back on the syringe plunger after needle insertion but before injection) is not necessary because no large blood vessels are present at the recommended injection sites, and a process that includes aspiration might be more painful for infants 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/acip-recs/general-recs/administration.html

 

 

[Harry T. Clark]

7 hours ago, Calm said:

I am getting the impression that VAERS is an early warning system; not expected to inform about the size, specific numbers, types of enemies/issues out there, instead expected to alert to “something is out there in that direction”, which then allows researchers to know where they should start looking rather than take random shots in the dark or based on a few anecdotes.

Given the cost of time in the middle of a pandemic, this seems a intelligent approach.

Yes, I agree with this.  I don't know if they are looking into the data, probably not as it might hurt the cause to get everyone vaccinated.  If more than 15,000 deaths have been reported, shouldn't that raise alarms?  It seems to me it should.