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The elites who run the world do so out  in the open, like the opioid billionaires of Purdue Pharma, who only get a slap on the wrist for murdering several hundred thousand Americans.  They lose their company, but get to keep their billions.  Not as good a deal as Chairman Mao in China for killing millions, but still pretty good.  There is nothing secret about it.

Edited by Robert F. Smith
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5 hours ago, Duncan said:

aren't you glad you are the only one who knows the truth? 

you and the other guests at the hotel hysteria could be your own secret combination!

For some reason President Benson has been made into a boogie man by many members of the Church. Having heard Prophets since David O. McKay give the same warnings as President Benson, I’m not so quick to throw him under the bus and dismiss their warnings as hysteria. After all, the modern prophets since Joseph Smith have declared that these are the last days spoken of in scripture, and there are detailed prophesies pertaining to this time. Seems like there can be reasonable discussions about this without immediately pivoting to dismissive labeling. 
 

Any guesses who made this official statement?
 

Quote

Church members are at perfect liberty to act according to their own consciences in the matter of safeguarding our way of life. They are, of course, encouraged to honor the highest standards of the gospel and to work to preserve their own freedoms. They are free to participate in nonchurch meetings that are held to warn people of the threat of Communism or any other theory or principle that will deprive us of our free agency or individual liberties vouchsafed by the Constitution of the United States.

The Church, out of respect for the rights of all its members to have their political views and loyalties, must maintain the strictest possible neutrality. We have no intention of trying to interfere with the fullest and freest exercise of the political franchise of our members under and within our Constitution, which the Lord declared he established “by the hands of wise men whom [he] raised up unto this very purpose” (D&C 101:80) and which, as to the principles thereof, the Prophet Joseph Smith, dedicating the Kirtland Temple, prayed should be “established forever.” (D&C 109:54.) The Church does not yield any of its devotion to or convictions about safeguarding the American principles and the establishments of government under federal and state constitutions and the civil rights of men safeguarded by these.

The position of this Church on the subject of Communism has never changed. We consider it the greatest satanical threat to peace, prosperity, and the spread of God’s work among men that exists on the face of the earth.

 

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17 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

For some reason President Benson has been made into a boogie man by many members of the Church. Having heard Prophets since David O. McKay give the same warnings as President Benson, I’m not so quick to throw him under the bus and dismiss their warnings as hysteria. After all, the modern prophets since Joseph Smith have declared that these are the last days spoken of in scripture, and there are detailed prophesies pertaining to this time. Seems like there can be reasonable discussions about this without immediately pivoting to dismissive labeling. 
 

Any guesses who made this official statement?
 

 

Pres. McKay in the 1960's. I thought though we believe in a living prophet?  I also supposed to believe that the LGBTQ movement is the downfall of all nations, communism was so 1960's, does anyone care about it anymore? I can't even recall the first time I heard about communism being discussed at church. It's a total American issue and people seem to so scared about it, the rest of the world has moved on from the 1960's though, So, yes there is still a passenger list headed to fantasy island 

Edited by Duncan
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7 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Pres. McKay in the 1960's. I thought though we believe in a living prophet?  I also supposed to believe that the LGBTQ movement is the downfall of all nations, communism was so 1960's, does anyone care about it anymore? I can't even recall the first time I heard about communism being discussed at church. It's a total American issue and people seem to so scared about it, the rest of the world has moved on from the 1960's though

As a former Maoist myself, I can tell you that we are closer now to those communist ideals than we ever were in the '60's, and need to be more aware than ever.

There are still lots of that group left from the '60's, and they are jumping for joy to have lived long enough to see for the incredible "progress" their movement has made in a mere 50 years.

I think maybe your living in a socialist nation, as benign as it is, has colored your understanding of the differences between social democracy and full control by the state.

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6 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

As a former Maoist myself, I can tell you that we are closer now to those communist ideals than we ever were in the '60's, and need to be more aware than ever.

There are still lots of that group left from the '60's, and they are jumping for joy to have lived long enough to see for the incredible "progress" their movement has made in a mere 50 years.

I think maybe your living in a socialist nation, as benign as it is, has colored your understanding of the differences between social democracy and full control by the state.

President Joseph F. Smith said that the three biggest threats to the Church are 

  1. Flattery of prominent people in the world

  2. False educational ideas

  3. Sexual impurity

I suspect he should have added US politics to the list

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33 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

For some reason President Benson has been made into a boogie man by many members of the Church. Having heard Prophets since David O. McKay give the same warnings as President Benson, I’m not so quick to throw him under the bus and dismiss their warnings as hysteria. After all, the modern prophets since Joseph Smith have declared that these are the last days spoken of in scripture, and there are detailed prophesies pertaining to this time. Seems like there can be reasonable discussions about this without immediately pivoting to dismissive labeling. 
 

Any guesses who made this official statement?
 

 

It's time to stand up, bravo!

Sister Angela was right. The revolution is starting to look pretty inevitable 

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10 minutes ago, Duncan said:

President Joseph F. Smith said that the three biggest threats to the Church are 

  1. Flattery of prominent people in the world

  2. False educational ideas

  3. Sexual impurity

I suspect he should have added US politics to the list

Great way to silence the opposition.

Shutdown assured.

 

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50 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Pres. McKay in the 1960's. I thought though we believe in a living prophet?  I also supposed to believe that the LGBTQ movement is the downfall of all nations, communism was so 1960's, does anyone care about it anymore? I can't even recall the first time I heard about communism being discussed at church. It's a total American issue and people seem to so scared about it, the rest of the world has moved on from the 1960's though, So, yes there is still a passenger list headed to fantasy island 

If you say so.

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17 hours ago, teddyaware said:

“I testify that wickedness is rapidly expanding in every segment of our society. (See D&C 1:14–16; D&C 84:49–53.) It is more highly organized, more cleverly disguised, and more powerfully promoted than ever before. Secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world.” (See Ether 8:18–25.) (I Testify, Ezra Taft Benson, General Conference Address, October 1988)

and…

23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.
24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up. (Ether Chapter eight)

I’ll never forget that strange Sunday morning in October of 1988 when a prophet of God announced to the world that Moroni’s terrifying prophecy of a gigantic secret combination that would be set up by the devil in the last days to destroy the freedom of the entire world was being fulfilled even as he spoke. I was astonished because I looked around and realized that, with the exception of Yours Truly, not a single soul in the entire congregation seemed to realize that a most momentous and sobering prophetic pronouncement had just been made. It was then that I realized Moroni’s hope that the general membership of the Church would awaken to a sense of their awful situation in time to do something about this devilish business would not be realized.

This prophesied satanic storm has now had 33 years to gather additional strength and consolidate its control, and the fact that so many members of the Church appear be totally blind to what’s obviously raging all around them proves John the Revelator was correct when he warned that Babylon the Great would have tremendous success in blinding and deceiving nearly the entire world prior to the Second Coming of Christ, even including some of the very elect. It’s going to be interesting to hear all the excuses why so many of those who should have known better ended up being deceived by the devil . Personally, I think the main reason why so many are being deceived is because, when you get right down to it, in their heart of hearts most secret combination skeptics ot  don’t really believe the Church is true.

 

Then Elder Oaks said in 1994 BYU Dev.

"Not Really Following the Prophet

A desire to follow a prophet is surely a great and appropriate strength, but even this has its potentially dangerous manifestations. I have heard of more than one group so intent on following the words of a dead prophet that they have rejected the teachings and counsel of the living ones. Satan has used that corruption from the beginning of the Restoration. You will recall Joseph Smith’s direction for the Saints to gather in Kirtland, Ohio, then in Missouri, and then in Illinois. At each place along the way, a certain number of Saints fell away, crying “fallen prophet” as their excuse for adhering to the earlier words and rejecting the current direction. The same thing happened after the death of the Prophet Joseph Smith, when some Saints seized upon one statement or another by the deceased Prophet as a basis for sponsoring or joining a new group that rejected the counsel of the living prophets.

Following the prophet is a great strength, but it needs to be consistent and current, lest it lead to the spiritual downfall that comes from rejecting continuous revelation. Under that principle, the most important difference between dead prophets and living ones is that those who are dead are not here to receive and declare the Lord’s latest words to his people. If they were, there would be no differences among the messages of the prophets.

A related distortion is seen in the practice of those who select a few sentences from the teachings of a prophet and use them to support their political agenda or other personal purposes. In doing so, they typically ignore the contrary implications of other prophetic words, or even the clear example of the prophet’s own actions. For example, I have corresponded with several Church members who sought to use something President Ezra Taft Benson was quoted as saying as a basis for refusing to file an income tax return or to pay income taxes.

I have tried to persuade these persons that their interpretation cannot be what President Benson intended, because all who have held that sacred office, and all of the General Authorities, have faithfully filed their income tax returns and paid the taxes required by law. The servants of God are under the Master’s commands to follow him and to be examples to the flock (see 1 Tim. 4:12; 1 Pet. 5:3). We should interpret their words in the light of their works. To wrest the words of a prophet to support a private agenda, political or financial or otherwise, is to try to manipulate the prophet, not to follow him."

I have to wonder if you still write Pres. Oaks letters about not paying taxes because of what Pres. Benson said 40 plus years ago

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18 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

It's time to stand up, bravo!

Sister Angela was right. The revolution is starting to look pretty inevitable 

I have great respect for Dr. Clarence Carson’s work. He coined the phrase “the world in the grip of an idea.” What idea? That human felicity can be achieved only through collective effort. Whatever face the idea wears…communism, fascism, totalitarianism, socialism, progressivism, religious zealotry…they all have one thing in common: coercion. The only exception to this that I have identified is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. 

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25 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I suspect he should have added US politics to the list

Maybe it missed the list because - current politics is more toxic and delusional than even the most dystopic visions.

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47 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

As a former Maoist myself, I can tell you that we are closer now to those communist ideals than we ever were in the '60's, and need to be more aware than ever.

I've learned that systems of power are the great corrupter and destroyer. The flavor of power (eg: communist vs fascist vs authoritarian) hints at the speed at which the damage is done (years vs decades vs generations).

Edited by Chum
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3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I agree, but there are the few, the group that were posted on the Chad/Lori Daybell thread. https://www.comefollowme2021.com/ 

They seem to be working against government such as thinking the government is taking their freedoms during this pandemic. Or rising against those that don't fit the original script such as LGBTQ+ crowd.

They don't seem Christlike to me. But say God wants this and He was a warrior in heaven, the war in heaven for instance. It seems they want to go to war against what they think is Satan's way.

I hope it doesn't mean we'll lose our democracy over it, such as not believing the vote was real for the presidency and all kinds of other conspiracy theories. I have grandchildren that probably want a chance to grow up too. Pretty sure they don't believe in climate change and now that's going to make all heck go loose.

It feels evil to me. In the podcast on the link, he talks about having his elementary school daughter go against the mask wearing last school year where they were mandatory, and telling her to fight for her freedoms. She is on the podcast, and then enlisting her friends to go against the mask wearing.

And he says not to let people tell you it's about helping others not get Covid, things like that. These people are fighting for God's constitution, not America's he says. In the meantime, making our freedoms actually melt away, IMO. 

I would agree.

It is worth knowing that a general outline established in the scriptures and in our recent history under unrighteous governments is to:

a) submit peacefully and worship to the extent we can.

when that becomes insufferable we then

b) leave for another place.

Someone can correct me, but very rarely has God advocated overthrowing a government. You sometimes have examples of righteous leaders defending foundational principles or laws from an unrighteous government, but usually in the capacity of a lawfully appointed officer of said government. While the distinction may be lost on some, there is a very large difference between a group of private citizens deciding to overthrow an unrighteous government, and say, the officer corps deciding to not execute what they consider to be an unlawful order.

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7 minutes ago, halconero said:

I always find these distinctions hard to parse. I have seen the socialist label flung at my home country (shared with Duncan)

One financial system that seems to have strong parallels with socialism is the Church.

That is all. Thank you for coming to my Chum Talk.

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39 minutes ago, halconero said:

I always find these distinctions hard to parse. I have seen the socialist label flung at my home country (shared with Duncan), with the big point of reference being its mechanism for administering healthcare (publicly funded, but privately delivered, interestingly enough). Based on other metrics, however, it ranks as far more oriented towards a free market economy than other countries, including the United States. As far as metrics designed to place greater control into the hands of incumbent workers go (occupational licensing, credential recognition), or centralized planning of cities (zoning reform), the US is far more socialist than Canada. One of my favourite indices, the Economic Freedom Index, weighs the combination of coercive taxes and regulations that go into starting, growing, and managing a business, and ranks Canada 10 places higher than the US.

That isn't to say one country is or isn't socialist. Just that we can point towards various mechanisms for regulating worker influence or control in a market that paint a much more complicated figure than overly simplistic labels make it out to be.

Great to know, thanks.   I was simply going by the seat of my pants on that comment, showing my own bias.

Thanks for pointing it out.  Maybe I will just delete it, or cross it through, or leave it as is.....   hmmmm.....

Maybe it's time to move, if they will let us pinkos in.  😆

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32 minutes ago, Chum said:

One financial system that seems to have strong parallels with socialism is the Church.

That is all. Thank you for coming to my Chum Talk.

No, ideally that would be "True" communism.

If it's actually Jehovah running the show, I'm in.  I was also almost a Catholic monk, so I have no problem with that kind of "poverty" vow.  ;)

It was the chastity - as in no marriage- and obedience vows that gave me a problem.  ;)

 

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32 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Great to know, thanks.   I was simply going by the seat of my pants on that comment, showing my own bias.

Thanks for pointing it out.  Maybe I will just delete it, or cross it through, or leave it as is.....   hmmmm.....

Maybe it's time to move, if they will let us pinkos in.  😆

No need to delete! I didn’t take the original comment as ill-intentioned, just interesting. There is a certain truth to perception being close to reality, and I would guess many Canadians demonstrate certain inclinations towards communitarian ideals commensurate with socialist or social democratic ideologies. It’s just complicated, is all.

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16 hours ago, Ipod Touch said:

The only secret combination anyone will ever need is:

Up Up, Down Down, Left Right, Left Right, B A, [start]

That is incredibly selfish. Very selfish.

The end should be: “…..[select] [start]”

Why don’t you invite a friend over to play with you?

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On 9/5/2021 at 11:28 PM, rodheadlee said:

Is the US being run by a secret combination? 

 

PS, if the mods would set this up as a poll, that would be great. I'm not looking for discussion,  just a simple yes or no.

That's an interesting question, but it's way too broad. You really have to define your terms first. 

In one sense, given the degree of necessary secrecy the government itself operates under, one might say that the US isn't being run by a secret combination -- it IS a secret combination.

That's why you need to define your terms. One person's secret combination is another person's conspiracy is another person's open secret.

But no, I don't think the US is being run by a secret combination. There are undoubtedly secret combinations within the government that are attempting to sway policy one way or another, some secret combinations outside the government that are attempting to sway policy or legislation one way or another (and in that sense, the various lobbying organizations might be regarded as secret combinations), and some secret combinations may have some parts of the government fully under their control. Who knows? I certainly don't.

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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I am more worried about every flavor of authoritarianism than I am about a specific gospel hobby variation.

I admit I am also concerned about the hyper-individualism the United States seems to have culturally accepted where it is almost an article of faith amongst some that if my actions impact you negatively that is your problem. This is usually promoted using the language of the US Founders ignoring the accompanying concepts of citizenship and responsibility.

It is a fact that anyone's actions may impact you negatively, or positively. The well-overused term "butterfly effect" comes into play here. There is also a question of degrees.

I once read a short story in which the plot traced how a single person's decision to not buy a new car triggered an economic recession. In the fiction, the government eventually traced the chain of cause and effect down to this event, and concluded that giving that single person a grant of money to buy the car he had decided not to buy (which was still on the dealer's lot a couple of years later) would correct the situation and drag the country out of the recession. In the story, this is what happened.  

This is obviously fiction, but consider the real world. A man I knew opened a computer shop in 1984. He got a loan from the SBA and mortgaged his two houses to the hilt in order to open his business. He chose to run a particular brand of personal computers that ended up being a complete flop. I stopped by his shop once in order to see what he had going, and I thought the computers he was selling were OK, but there was no way I could afford even the cheapest one he was selling. After a year in business he had managed to sell exactly one system, and he had to close the business, lay off his two employees, go bankrupt, and sell both his houses for a pittance. My failure to buy a system from him might possibly have been the straw that broke the camel's back. If I had bought one, I might have given him the encouragement to continue, and possibly succeed. My action impacted him negatively, and I am sorry to tell you this, but that was his problem, not mine.

Consider this hypothetical: your neighbor, whom you get along with and are good friends, decides to sell his house and move away. The person who buys the house turns out to be the neighbor from hell and makes your life miserable. In this event, your original neighbor's action of selling his house impacts you negatively. But is that your problem, or is your original neighbor to blame for your suffering? If you could foresee that the guy who would buy your house will be the neighbor from hell, do you have the right to forbid your neighbor from selling his house to this guy? Or even forbid him from selling it at all? Of course you don't. You're just going to have to deal with it.

This is not to say that I am in favor of a factory dumping chemicals into a river and to hell with what anyone thinks or how it impacts them. 

But in the end, if someone's deliberate action causes you some negative effect, you just have to suck it up and deal with it, UNLESS there is some justification in law for you to take action. This has nothing to do with anyone's hyper-individualism. That's the way it works in every country, regardless of culture -- although in some more corrupt countries, you can't even get justice even if the law's on your side. And so you just have to deal with that, too.

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8 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

And of course if you know ETB's political leanings you know which "combination" he was talking about

You are literally keeping a secret about a combination.

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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I am more worried about every flavor of authoritarianism than I am about a specific gospel hobby variation.

So am I.

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