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Boblloyd91's topic for Catholic posters got me thinking about the Cross, the Atonement, Eternal Life and how He makes His plan known to us. Hence, the subject of my topic: Why does the Holy Ghost transform lives in many religions if "True Church" authority is required for salvation?
People in many religions testify how Christ has transformed their lives through the Holy Ghost.
How can religions, who claim no authority other than faith in Jesus Christ, obtain Salvation when according to Mark 16:16, Jesus Christ told his disciples "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature 'He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned?' "
How can the Catholic Church claim that "The one true Church established by Christ is the Catholic Church."
How can the LDS Church claim to be "The only true and living Church."
How do Christians feel about salvation for non believers?
Hope for Christians:
1. George Beverly Shay version of "The Old Rugged Cross." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpjjC3f1FvI
Hope for Non Christians
2. The Poem "Abu Ben Adhem." https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Poems_That_Every_Child_Should_Know/Abou_Ben_Adhem
The Daughters of MOTHER EVE
of Latter-Day Saints
1. We believe that God is a title that denotes more than one personage. Those personages are our Father and Mother in Heaven.
2. We believe Jesus Christ is the Savior of Mankind and Mother Eve the Comforter of mankind.
3. We believe that we were given the Sarahic1 Priestesshood in the pre-existence through Mother Eve.
4. We believe that the Miriamic1 Priestesshood is to help prepare women to take on the duties of the Sarahic1Priestesshood.
5. We believe that women should lead side by side and hand in hand with our brothers, husbands, and fathers.
6. We believe that our duty and calling is separate and complimentary to the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
7. We believe that there should be no poor among us. To help the poor build a secure life with love and understanding.
8. We believe that poverty is instability in home ownership, food availability and job security.
9. We believe that through personal accountability and community support we can achieve the fullest measure of our creation.
10. We believe that holy script has been changed by false priests and evil transcribers to exclude and persecute those who were a different gender, race, nationality, and sexuality.
11. We believe through objective thought and careful prayer we will be able to strip prejudice from ourselves and our beliefs.
12. We believe that we are saved through Jesus Christ and we are here Because of the sacrifice of Mother Eve.
1 These names were chosen in the same manner that The Melchizedek and the Aaronic Priesthood names were chosen. Namely by calling them after Women that faithful to the Priestesshood, otherwise known as the Priestesshood after the Order of the Daughter of God.
There were a couple of fascinating talks in last years Fairmormon Conference which implied this.
I just wanted to suggest the topic and put the idea out there. I had never thought about it before that conference, and now I find the idea drawing me in more and more. I will let you look up the articles because I want people to read the articles more. No hints.
To me, it makes perfect sense. The Godhead is a family. Some say the Holy Ghost is a feminine personage- the official church position is of course that He is male.
I think we need more revelation on these issues.
I would like the thread to be scholarly and respectful to Heavenly Mother and the human person, the mother of Jesus, Mary.
If the thread gets funky about the conception of Jesus, I will shut it down in a heartbeat. All are welcome, but we need to have a respectful tone. And I really do not want this to become an EV vs LDS thread about Biblical interpretations.
By Mystery Meat
For the past few years of my life (basically since I returned from my mission) I have felt cut off from the Lord. Many times I have felt like the prophet Joseph Smith felt when he asked the Lord why he had been forsaken. For the most part I feel as though I lived a good, Mormon life. I never stopped going to Church. I prayed on a regular basis (multiple times a day). I went to all my meetings (from the Sunday block to the Saturday evening Stake Conference sessions). I spent some time as an ordinance worker at a temple in Utah. I was doing a lot of the right things. I was never perfect. But I was trying. Yet, I felt as though my righteous desires and prayers were going unfulfilled and unheard. The times I did feel the influence of the Holy Ghost were few and far between.
A few years ago, when I first encountered some of the honest truth about Church history (not to mention a whole lot of the disinformation, distortion and conclusion jumping that seems to come with it), I was in the perfect situation to question what I *thought* I knew.
And I did.
After a few weeks of wondering what I really knew, I came to the conclusion that I was going to believe, because I wanted to believe. I lived in this state of testimony for a matter of months before upgrading to a level of faith where I believed because it made me happy and I truly believed it was true. That is essentially where I have been for the past few years.
That all changed a few weeks ago. I had a prompting one evening that I ignored at first. But I couldn't shake it. I followed the prompting and the fruit of that choice has been undeniable. Whereas the the Spirit seemed absent for years (about a third of my life's worth), now I can't seem to escape its influence in my life. The word outpouring comes to mind. I won't go into specifics. Suffice it say some things can't be explained by improbable coincidence or chance. I feel confident in exchanging the word believe with the word know when it comes to my testimony.
The interesting thing is, nothing I was personally doing changed. I didn't all of sudden start making better choices. I wasn't more perfect than before (in fact, probably the EXACT opposite; my strength was actually waning). I believe, and the Spirit seems to accord (thank you, BRM), that the Lord purposefully withdrew himself from me. I believe it was my trial. It was a trial with a designated time period; not one I could shorten by learning some thing or developing some trait. The only way to end the trial was to hold on for the ride and wait for it to stop. It feels as though it was designed to try my faith and confidence in the Lord.
I share this because I know I am not the only one who has felt this way. Based on my interactions with many on this board, I think it is safe to say that more than a few of you, after having done many of the right things, have been left to ask "What am I doing wrong? Why are the heavens closed to me? ARE YOU EVEN LISTENING? ARE YOU EVEN THERE?"
In my experience the Lord does try our faith in very real ways. There are trials of our own making. Trials of living in a mortal, fallen world. Trials caused by the adversary of our souls. But I firmly believe that there are trials of testimony caused by the Lord, God Himself. And if my life is any indication they come at the most inopportune times and conflict with the most righteous and good desires of our hearts; desires placed their by the Lord! Yet, if we can no more than desire to believe, living our lives with faith and hope, never casting out our faith or eliminating any chance for it to take root by doubt and impatience, it is my testimony that the Lord WILL (in my case has) compensate us in ways we can't comprehend.
Jeremy wrote, "There are more than a dozen Book of Mormon names that are thesame as or nearly the same as modern geographical locations."
Now Jeremy is ignoring the Book of Mormon witnesses, nobody saw a map or a book during the translation process.
"Why are there so many names similar to Book of Mormon names in the region where Joseph Smith lived? This is all just a coincidence?"
Jeremy is looking for patterns that do not exist. I created a similar list for the state of Texas
1) Mormon | Morton, TX (1923) 2) Alma | Alma, TX (1840s) 3) Corianton | Corinth, TX (1847) 4) Seth | Seth Ward, TX (1920) 5) Benjamin | Benjamin, TX (1885) 6) Adam | Adamsville, TX (1856) 7) Joshua (Mormon 2:6) | Joshua, TX (1867) 8 Sariah | Sarita, TX (1904) 9) Sherem | Sherman, TX (March 17, 1846) 10) Joseph | Josephine, TX (1888) "There was a book published in 1825 Vermont entitled View of the Hebrews. View of theHebrews compared to the Book of Mormon:" There was also a novel entitled Wreck of the Titan, it was published 14 years before the Titanic events. "Hill Cumorah and Moroni have absolutely nothing to do with Camora and Moroni from Captain Kidd stories? Stories that Joseph and his treasure hunting family and buddies werefamiliar with? The original 1830 Book of Mormon uniform “Camorah” spelling? This is all just a mere coincidence?" There are thousands of stories and places, and there were thousands of events in Joseph Smith life. Jeremy is just shooting an arrow before drawing the target. Did you know that one of the very few ancient cities in Mesoamerica for which the pre-Columbian name is known is named "Lamanai"? It means "submerged crocodile." Lamanai dates to 500 BC. This is all just a mere coincidence?" What about Nahom and Bountiful? What about Mormon's codex book? See http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765595129/Scholar-details-striking-parallels-between-Book-of-Mormon-and-ancient-civilization.html?pg=all "The Late War Between the United States and Great Britain: This was an 1819 textbookwritten in King James Version style language for New York state school children, one of themvery likely being Joseph Smith. The first chapter alone is stunning as it reads incredibly likethe Book of Mormon" Why would Joseph Smith copy the language style of some paragraphs? The Book of Mormon witnesses said that Joseph Smith used no book during the translation process. Duane and Chris Johnson conducted a computer study comparing The Book of Mormon to over 100,000 books from the pre-1830's era. Chris wrote, "Duane and I are conducting on over 100,000 pre-1830′s texts," Jeremy is clearly shooting the arrow before drawing the target. How many books does Jeremy think that Joseph Smith had? "Does this mean that Forrest Gump is real and the story happened in real life? Why did I feel the Spirit as I listened to the stories of apostates sharing how they discovered for themselves that Mormonism is not true? Why is this Spirit so unreliable and inconsistent? How can I trust such an inconsistent and contradictory Source for knowing that Mormonism is worth betting my life, time, money, heart, mind, and obedience to?" Jeremy cannot prove that all spiritual experiences are false, and I cannot prove my spiritual experience to the world because it is personal. Just because Catholics and Pentecostals say they had a revelation, that does nothing to disprove my spiritual experience. Jeremy may follow the Occam razor, he may think that the simplest explanation is to assume that all spiritual experiences are false, but I do not blame him, If I had not experienced my spiritual testimony, I would have not believe in any religion.
"I don't blame any one for not believing my history. If I had not experienced what I have, I could not have believed it myself." - Joseph Smith I do not believe that the spirit really leaves the body, but I think that some Near Death Experiences are spiritual experiences and visions, See National Geographic documentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSfNSTB-Xd8