Covid cases, hospitalizations, death trends and other touchy subjects…

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, pogi said:

Unfortunately, it too often is.  Who should take priority of care - the unvaccinated dying of Covid, or someone hit by a drunk driver or stroke victim, etc.  This is unfortunately not a hypothetical scenario anymore in some locations.  It is a real moral dilemma.  Sure, you try to treat both and give equal care, but when that is not possible...then what?

🙃OK. I’ll take your bait.

14 people show up at an ER. All 14 are in need of life or death care, but there is only one ICU bed available. Who gets the bed and who gets ridiculed by a hypocritical “comedian” making a vanity appearance with a live cheering audience in the peak of a resurgent pandemic and is sent away to a miserable but well-deserved death?

1. A vaccinated heart attack victim.

2. An unvaccinated heart attack victim.

3. A vaccinated overdosed tweaker.

4. An unvaccinated tweaker.

5. A vaccinated drunk driver.

6. An unvaccinated drunk driver.

7. A vaccinated helmeted motorcycle rider who collided with a bus.

8. An unvaccinated unhelmeted motorcycle rider who collided with a bus.

9. A vaccinated murderer shot by police while trying to escape.

10. An unvaccinated murderer shot by police.

11. A vaccinated victim of a drunk driver.

12. An unvaccinated victim of a drunk driver.

13. An unvaccinated fellow who took ivermectin thinking it might cure his COVID.

14. An vaccinated fellow who took ivermectin thinking it might cure his COVID

 

We can play this game all night……🙃

 

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Where is the compassion for the one who didn’t poison themselves, yet gets turned away?

Certainly if there is a bed available, give it to them, but doctors have to make such decisions all the time when there are limited resources, such as with transplants. People who drink alcohol or smoke may be refused, for example, or others who can’t demonstrate they would keep to the necessary routines to avoid rejection. 

And I worry for the possible influx of children that come down with it that aren't able to get vaccinated, we should worry about the youngest that still have alot of life to live vs. those that don't want they're freedoms bothered and won't wear masks.

Edited September 10, 2021 by Tacenda

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Magic? This is not a Sophie’s Choice. If people are dying you do what you have to to help them. There are many means to do that. Save their lives then ridicule them later. 
 

🙃Here’s a line that might get a laugh in a different environment:

”That choice doesn’t seem so tough to me. Vaccinated person having a heart attack? Yes, come right on in. We’ll take care of you. Vaccinated masked guy who chose to attend a celebrity vanity celebration in the peak of a deadly pandemic resurgence and cheered at his morbid jokes and got COVID? Rest In peace, selfish dimwit.”🙃

Again, we're talking about math here.  If there the resources aren't there "do what you have to to help them" isn't an option that can be picked. 

[bsjkki]

Just now, bluebell said:

Again, we're talking about math here.  If there the resources aren't there "do what you have to to help them" isn't an option that can be picked. 

I remember a time it was the Fed’s job to surge capacity...I guess that was only for New York and California.

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Again, we're talking about math here.  If there the resources aren't there "do what you have to to help them" isn't an option that can be picked. 

Modern triage procedures of varying types have been going since the Napoleonic wars according to Wiki….not a novel idea.

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

🙃OK. I’ll take your bait.

12 people show up at an ER. All 12 are in need of life or death care, but there is only one ICU bed available. Who gets the bed and who gets ridiculed by a hypocritical “comedian” making a vanity appearance with a live cheering audience in the peak of a resurgent pandemic and is sent away to a miserable but well-deserved death?

1. A vaccinated heart attack victim.

2. An unvaccinated heart attack victim.

3. A vaccinated overdosed tweaker.

4. An unvaccinated tweaker.

5. A vaccinated drunk driver.

6. An unvaccinated drunk driver.

7. A vaccinated helmeted motorcycle rider who collided with a bus.

8. An unvaccinated unhelmeted motorcycle rider who collided with a bus.

9. A vaccinated murderer shot by police while trying to escape.

10. An unvaccinated murderer shot by police.

11. A vaccinated victim of a drunk driver.

12. An unvaccinated victim of a drunk driver.

13. An unvaccinated fellow who took ivermectin thinking it might cure his COVID.

14. An vaccinated fellow who took ivermectin thinking it might cure his COVID

 

We can play this game all night……🙃

 

 

 

 

It's not a game.  Hospital resources are finite and when they run out people have to decide who to give them to and who will go without.  Idaho is currently rationing care, using resources only on those who they believe are likely to survive and withholding them from others.

[Calm]

21 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

I remember a time it was the Fed’s job to surge capacity...I guess that was only for New York and California.

I read that the limited use of the Comfort (not even 200 patients in New York because there were very few who met the requirements to be treated on the ship) combined with it being hurricane season is preventing the use of the hospital ships this past month, but there is some aid outside financial being provided.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2021/09/05/federal-medical-team-arrives-kentucky-assist-covid-19-patients/5742971001/

https://www.kxly.com/us-army-medical-team-called-in-to-support-kootenai-health-amid-covid-surge/

https://www.djournal.com/news/local/us-military-nmhs-detail-joint-efforts-to-care-for-covid-patients/article_9d5965dc-1ad3-59fe-b864-6f1ca82913f2.html

https://www.wtvy.com/2021/09/09/dale-medical-center-announce-military-help/

Is the National Guard federal or state?

https://www.wistv.com/2021/09/03/sc-national-guard-assist-tidelands-health-amid-covid-19-surge/

lists a couple of states…

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/workforce/hospitals-receive-staffing-help-amid-latest-covid-19-wave-snapshots-from-6-states.html

Stopping now, don’t know if I would find many more or if the articles would be mostly repeats…limited my search to the past week, so if they were already there, that wouldn’t likely come up.

Edited September 10, 2021 by Calm

[bluebell]

5 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

I remember a time it was the Fed’s job to surge capacity...I guess that was only for New York and California.

It's a weird dance.  On one end we have people telling the Fed that their health is not the Fed's concern, and on the other hand blasting the Fed for not being more prepared to take care of them if they get really sick.

The line is there but it's blurry.

I'm with you in that I do believe we should be using the overflows that were prepared last year if possible, but I'm also annoyed that the chosen-to-stay-unvaccinated are why they are needed.

 

[Bernard Gui]

26 minutes ago, Calm said:

Off label use apparently, but have you tried Botox?  I had a friend who got her migraines treated that way,  but can’t remember for sure if they were cluster ones or not.  Not the usual version though.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31560734/

 

No. It hasn’t been recommended to me as treatment for clusters. And there’s this from that paper:

Quote

Three studies resulted from the search that each included 10 to 17 subjects. All three demonstrated significant improvement in the frequency of headaches that occurred as quickly as 1 week following treatment. There was low-quality evidence that botulinum toxin was effective in reducing headache frequency and severity by at least 50%. Injections into the sphenopalatine ganglion may have a higher incidence of adverse events.

That’s the nerve ganglion under the eye and behind the cheekbone! It’s the locus from which the pain radiates. Yikes! 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

It's not a game.  Hospital resources are finite and when they run out people have to decide who to give them to and who will go without.  Idaho is currently rationing care, using resources only on those who they believe are likely to survive and withholding them from others.

I guess you didn’t see the 🙃🙃? Are there other folks who are showing up at ERs because they made a foolish choice, or just in horse-goo eaters? Probably. 

Looks like I foolishly took the bait. The object of my scorn is Kimmel. Not Idahoans who are in trouble.

Navy hospital ships were moved into other places to help potential overcrowding. 🙃I know one could probably not make it up the Snake River,🙃 but perhaps there are other available resources that could be called upon.

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[pogi]

17 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

🙃OK. I’ll take your bait.

12 people show up at an ER. All 12 are in need of life or death care, but there is only one ICU bed available. Who gets the bed and who gets ridiculed by a hypocritical “comedian” making a vanity appearance with a live cheering audience in the peak of a resurgent pandemic and is sent away to a miserable but well-deserved death?

1. A vaccinated heart attack victim.

2. An unvaccinated heart attack victim.

3. A vaccinated overdosed tweaker.

4. An unvaccinated tweaker.

5. A vaccinated drunk driver.

6. An unvaccinated drunk driver.

7. A vaccinated helmeted motorcycle rider who collided with a bus.

8. An unvaccinated unhelmeted motorcycle rider who collided with a bus.

9. A vaccinated murderer shot by police while trying to escape.

10. An unvaccinated murderer shot by police.

11. A vaccinated victim of a drunk driver.

12. An unvaccinated victim of a drunk driver.

13. An unvaccinated fellow who took ivermectin thinking it might cure his COVID.

14. An vaccinated fellow who took ivermectin thinking it might cure his COVID

 

We can play this game all night……🙃

 

 

 

 

You seem to be more focused on Kimmel than what I am talking about.   I am not here to defend Kimmel, but I do understand the source of his outrage.  I am trying to get away from his comments which are triggering.  I didn't post it, but I am responding to the scenario he brought up. 

If you want to respond to my very series dilemma, I would be happy to hear your opinion.   

 

[bsjkki]

14 minutes ago, Calm said:

Is the National Guard federal or state?

State.

[Bernard Gui]

6 minutes ago, pogi said:

You seem to be more focused on Kimmel than what I am talking about.   I am not here to defend Kimmel, but I do understand the source of his outrage.  I am trying to get away from his comments which are triggering.  I didn't post it, but I am responding to the scenario he brought up. 

If you want to respond to my very series dilemma, I would be happy to hear your opinion.   

 

Right on!  I am focused on Kimmel. Prime example of a hypocritical self-absorbed celebrity who flaunts what the rest of us are expected to observe and sews public confusion and distrust. I’m disappointed you are defending him. 

Which of the folks I described should get preference and which should not?…..if you care to answer.

Edited September 10, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[pogi]

7 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

State.

I’m pretty sure it is federal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_(United_States)

It is easy to respond when it is a localized outbreak.  Not so easy when it is across the entire US.  But the Feds do have systems in place to support hospitals with financial and human resources. 

Edited September 10, 2021 by pogi

[Tacenda]

22 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I guess you didn’t see the 🙃🙃? Are there other folks who are showing up at ERs because they made a foolish choice, or just in horse-goo eaters? Probably. 

Looks like I foolishly took the bait. The object of my scorn is Kimmel. Not Idahoans who are in trouble.

Navy hospital ships were moved into other places to help potential overcrowding. 🙃I know one could probably not make it up the Snake River,🙃 but perhaps there are other available available resources that could be called upon.

 

I think Kimmel probably should have not made this into joke.

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, pogi said:

I’m pretty sure it is federal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_(United_States)

It is easy to respond when it is a localized outbreak.  Not so easy when it is across the entire US.  But the Feds do have systems in place to support hospitals with financial and human resources. 

Both…from your link:

Quote

National Guard units are under the dual control of the state governments and the federal government.

The side bar also lists allegiance to both.

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

Again, we're talking about math here.  If there the resources aren't there "do what you have to to help them" isn't an option that can be picked. 

Of course, it is. We bring in emergency services all the time for disaster victims. They don’t exclude those folks who stayed in the flood plane when told to evacuate or entered the blast zone when warned of the eruption. Hospital ships were sent to big cities whose leaders made foolish decisions. 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[T-Shirt]

I live near one of the busiest ER's in the country.  My Dr. sent me there when he found out I had a bowl obstruction.  I was in severe pain.  He said it was a serious emergency.  When I got there, they were all full and not because of Covid.  At the time the hospital had only two Covid patients and this was before the vaccine.  They were just busy.  They told me to wait.  So I waited in horrible pain for about two hours before they were able to get me in.  Would I have been justified to demand that they find a drunk driver or some other criminal who was there, be removed so I could be seen?  Or maybe one of the Covid patients who had been careless in not wearing a mask or social distancing.  Even more would it have been appropriate for me to try to get a laugh by shaming these people and tell them to let them rest in peace, because I deserve to live more than they do?

Frankly I can't believe I'm even asking this, wishing death on someone and trying to get a laugh out of it is pure evil.

Edited September 10, 2021 by T-Shirt

[bsjkki]

It’s a dual role. 
State Active Duty (Governor’s control)

Title 32...deployed but still under (Governor control)

Title 10...under control of President.  
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/who-controls-the-national-guard/vi-BB1cxaO0

 

 

[Bernard Gui]

2 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I think Kimmel probably should have not made this into joke.

Oh my criminy, Tacenda! At last someone understands! Thank you, thank you, thank you! As I’m learning to say in Kentucky, “Bless your heart, deary. Have a blessed day!” 

Just yesterday a stranger with whom I had a brief, friendly, inconsequential conversation said, “I thank God for creating people like you.” I knew then that I was no longer in Washington.

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, T-Shirt said:

I live near one of the busiest ER's in the country.  My Dr. sent me there when he found out I had a bowl obstruction.  I was in severe pain.  He said it was a serious emergency.  When I got there, they were all full and not because of Covid.  At the time the hospital had only two Covid patients and this was before the vaccine.  They were just busy.  They told me to wait.  So I waited in horrible pain for about two hours before they were able to get me in.  Would I have been justified to demand that they find a drunk driver or some other criminal who was there, be removed so I could be seen?  Or maybe one of the Covid patients who had been careless in not wearing a mask or social distancing.  Even more would it have been appropriate for me to try to get a laugh by shaming these people and tell them to let them rest in peace, because I deserved to live more than they do?

Frankly I can't believe I'm even asking this, wishing death on someone and trying to get a laugh out of it is pure evil.

Thanks. This is exactly what I am saying except you said it better in far fewer words.. 
 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[T-Shirt]

13 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Thanks. This is exactly what I am saying except you said better in far fewer words.. 
 

I can't believe there are people who find this funny.  I am surprised there are people on here trying to defend it.

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, T-Shirt said:

I can't believe there are people who find this funny.  I am surprised there are people on here trying to defend it.

There is a difference between finding it funny—I certainly don’t—and recognizing there might be a need at some point for triage and this could be useful as one of the evaluation points. 

[pogi]

49 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I’m disappointed you are defending him. 

I’m pretty sure I said that wasn’t my intent.  I’m pretty sure I said I disagree with him and would try to give care to everyone. You're not taking my point seriously.

take care

Edited September 10, 2021 by pogi

[Amulek]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

2 hours ago, Amulek said:

Roughly 10% lower.

Than what?

The percentage of non-covid identified cases.

If 55% of the cases are related to covid, then the other 45% are unrelated (or not identified as being related to covid, however you want to look at it), which would be a difference of 10%.

So, whatever amount of increase is related to covid, the non-covid increase would be about 10% less. 

Though, to be honest, I'm not sure where the 591% number is even coming from to begin with. According to DSHS, there have been 159 calls so far this year, compared to 48 last year, which isn't nearly a 600% increase.

The percentage change for that would be: (159-48)/48 * 100 = 231%. 

Even if you take the year to date number of calls (159) and annualize that out for the rest of the year (159 calls to date / 8 months to date = 19.875 calls/mo * 12 months = 238.5 calls), that still only gets you to a 397% increase: (239-48)/48 * 100 = 397%.

To get closer to the 591% number you are going to have to assume some sort of progression, but I haven't seen the month-by-month data which would be necessary to even start to estimate something like that. And, even if we had it, it would still only be an estimate. 

The only thing I can think of is that maybe someone has got the year to date numbers through August of last year. If the year to date calls through August of 2020 were only 23, then that would get you to the number: (159-23)/23 * 100 = 591%.

I didn't see that listed on the TX website though, but if it was reported in one of the other sources that's maybe how you could get to that original reported amount.

But again, as I said before, it's mostly academic. We're only talking about 50 patients spread out over 8 months among a population of 29M people. The idea that this is what is putting a strain on TX hospitals is just laughably absurd.