Covid cases, hospitalizations, death trends and other touchy subjects…

[Bernard Gui]

7 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

 

Probably more accurate to say since/then. 

If infers a hypothetical. 

Covid is a life and death situation so it's not hypothetically concerning. 

I've been watching this from afar and not fully engaging with this line of debate. I get to a degree both ends of people's arguments and where they're coming from. I get the idea of promoting the best protocols and equipment. But I also live in a low mask use area where at this point I would just accept anyone doing anything to limit the spread. I would love if everyone would generally wear masks that are on the high end of effectiveness. But at this point I would also take just about any measure of protection being used on their face en masse....since any form of measure would be better than what i currently witness on the daily. 

I think it's similar to say nutrition. Malnutrition problems are a definite problem and ideally it would "follow the science" and the best protocols would be promoted....this is generally a diverse plant based diet with minimal meat that is more likely fish or chicken or like items minimally processed and preferrably home cooked. But that's not likely to be followed if that's all that was promoted because there's social factors that strongly reduce adherence. Likewise with masks, if it was simply a problem of best preventative treatment measures, there would be no doubt that promoting they higher quality end masks would be best. But several social circumstances present warrant, IMHO, the flexibility of promoting any properly worn somewhat effective covering. And figuring out how to dislodge people on their general anti-mask stances that keep them from using any form of protection in public spaces. 

 

With luv,

BD   

Thanks for the comments. 

[Bernard Gui]

6 hours ago, bluebell said:

I agree with Jimmy.  We all make our choices and the consequences follow.  

I don’t agree with Jimmy. His approach lacks the basic element of compassion. Hopefully it is not how Heavenly Father deals with my poor choices.

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I don’t agree with Jimmy. His approach lacks the basic element of compassion. Hopefully it is not how Heavenly Father deals with my poor choices.

It’s math, not magic. If you have three hospital beds and four patients, then one will not get care.  How do we decide which one won’t get it?

It’s not a lack of compassion that requires one to be turned away. 

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Unless someone can offer a reason why so many others are suddenly taking the drug, a reason not provided by the link, I do not think it appropriate to discount the possibility that more of the increase is Covid related. But I applaud the Texas site for not speculating and the USA article should have been more careful. 

When I am in a cluster headache cycle I’m willing to take just about any advice on what I can do to stop it. 

[Calm]

41 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I don’t agree with Jimmy. His approach lacks the basic element of compassion. Hopefully it is not how Heavenly Father deals with my poor choices.

Where is the compassion for the one who didn’t poison themselves, yet gets turned away?

Certainly if there is a bed available, give it to them, but doctors have to make such decisions all the time when there are limited resources, such as with transplants. People who drink alcohol or smoke may be refused, for example, or others who can’t demonstrate they would keep to the necessary routines to avoid rejection. 

Edited September 9, 2021 by Calm

[Teancum]

1 hour ago, Robert J Anderson said:

I was vaccinated, so, doesn't that give me some social credit, enough to talk about alternatives?  Or, is it total dedication to the vaccine team or banishment?  Also, you appear to be a little emotional about this as evidenced by your last sentence.  Why?  The vaccines don't stop the spread, don't prevent someone from getting it, just lessen the symptoms supposedly, except that may not be so true for delta and the other variants.  Anyway, why so emotional if I read you correctly?  Shouldn't we always be discussing and entertaining alternatives in these matters?

Emotional?  Not really. I said sure look at alternatives if they have been properly tested. Listen to the podcast I posted if you want to know more about the couple drugs you mentioned.

[Calm]

17 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

When I am in a cluster headache cycle I’m willing to take just about any advice on what I can do to stop it. 

I know the feeling with migraines or over the top restless legs (it sounds like no big deal, but it reduces me to tears…thankfully the meds work great usually).

[Teancum]

1 hour ago, Robert J Anderson said:

Looks like you have to get a subscription.  Perhaps you could simply give some bullets on why Weinstein is a quack?  I know he was interviewed by Rogan, the horsepaste lover, and Dr. Malone, another supposed "quack," probably labeled as such due to not religiously following the narrative.  So, what does Mr. Harris say specifically about Dr. Weinstein?

Hmmm I thought this one was not pay walled.  Let me check.  The podcast specifically references Weinstein and the Rogan interview.  Yes Malone is a quack as well.  They discuss him on the podcast as well.  Harris, who like Weinstein says he is promoting something that has not been properly tested and his misinformation is dangerous.

[Duncan]

On 9/2/2021 at 3:28 PM, bsjkki said:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2052297521000883
 

From Sept. 2021

Morons though are taking Ivermectin meant for horses. As much as society progresses it regresses, did anyone ever think the day would come when authorities would ever have to say don't take de worming stuff for horses-just get the shots already!

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19

[Teancum]

1 hour ago, Robert J Anderson said:

Looks like you have to get a subscription.  Perhaps you could simply give some bullets on why Weinstein is a quack?  I know he was interviewed by Rogan, the horsepaste lover, and Dr. Malone, another supposed "quack," probably labeled as such due to not religiously following the narrative.  So, what does Mr. Harris say specifically about Dr. Weinstein?

Try this link:

 

 

[pogi]

53 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I don’t agree with Jimmy. His approach lacks the basic element of compassion. Hopefully it is not how Heavenly Father deals with my poor choices.

He is expressing a very human emotion related to unfairness in acknowledging the harm caused to innocent people by the poor choices of others.  We are all still God's in embryo...

[Bernard Gui]

57 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It’s math, not magic. If you have three hospital beds and four patients, then one will not get care.  How do we decide which one won’t get it?

It’s not a lack of compassion that requires one to be turned away. 

Magic? This is not a Sophie’s Choice. If people are dying you do what you have to to help them. There are many means to do that. Save their lives then ridicule them later. 
 

Quote

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of over-treatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

Quote

"Dr. Fauci said if hospitals get any more crowded, they're going to have to make some very tough choices about who gets an ICU bed," Kimmel said.

"That choice doesn't seem so tough to me," he added. "Vaccinated person having a heart attack? Yes, come right on in. We'll take care of you. Unvaccinated guy who gobbled horse goo? Rest in peace, wheezy."

🙃Here’s a line that might get a laugh in a different environment:

”That choice doesn’t seem so tough to me. Vaccinated person having a heart attack? Yes, come right on in. We’ll take care of you. Vaccinated masked guy who chose to attend a celebrity vanity celebration in the peak of a deadly pandemic resurgence and cheered at his morbid jokes and got COVID? Rest In peace, selfish dimwit.”🙃

Edited September 9, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Robert J Anderson said:

The vaccines don't stop the spread, don't prevent someone from getting it, just lessen the symptoms supposedly, except that may not be so true for delta and the other variants.  

This isn't true.  It does reduce infection rates and thus transmission rates, plus it has the added benefit of reducing symptoms.  It is not "supposed (assumed or believed)", it is a known fact. 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/keythingstoknow.html

 

[Bernard Gui]

21 minutes ago, pogi said:

He is expressing a very human emotion related to unfairness in acknowledging the harm caused to innocent people by the poor choices of others.  We are all still God's in embryo...

I can’t dismiss his smug hypocrisy so cavalierly. If two patients show up in the ER on the point of death, one of them  a drunk driver who caused an accident, the other his victim, and I had only one bed available , I would not close the doors on the perp and tell him, “Die, thoughtless jerk!” I would find another bed, save his life, and let him suffer the consequences of his behavior when he has recovered. 

Edited September 9, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

25 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Morons though are taking Ivermectin meant for horses. As much as society progresses it regresses, did anyone ever think the day would come when authorities would ever have to say don't take de worming stuff for horses-just get the shots already!

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19

🙃Morons deserve to die. They are a waste of skin.🙃

People do all sorts of foolish things to escape pain or death. They do not deserve to die because of that.

[Bernard Gui]

42 minutes ago, Calm said:

I know the feeling with migraines or over the top restless legs (it sounds like no big deal, but it reduces me to tears…thankfully the meds work great usually).

Sorry! I have another good friend who suffers with those. It’s no fun at all.

There are no treatments for clusters. Not even morphine works. I think I’m starting a cycle now. About every 13 months.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[pogi]

9 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I can’t dismiss his smug hypocrisy so cavalierly. If two patients show up in the ER on the point of death, one of them  a drunk driver who caused an accident, the other his victim, and I had only one bed available , I would not close the doors on the perp and tell him, “Die, thoughtless jerk!” I would find another bed, save his life, and let him suffer the consequences of his behavior when he has recovered. 

There simply isn’t always another bed.  People have already been turned away from ICU care and died as a result. It is in the news.

If you were the father of the son who was hit by a drunk driver, and if the drunk driver was given the last bed and lived while your son died, it would take a celestial being to feel compassion and not be infuriated at the drunk driver and also at the hospital for turning away your son and choosing instead to care for the drunk driver.

Edited September 9, 2021 by pogi

[Bernard Gui]

52 minutes ago, Calm said:

Where is the compassion for the one who didn’t poison themselves, yet gets turned away?

Certainly if there is a bed available, give it to them, but doctors have to make such decisions all the time when there are limited resources, such as with transplants. People who drink alcohol or smoke may be refused, for example, or others who can’t demonstrate they would keep to the necessary routines to avoid rejection. 

Foolishness should not be a death sentence, IMO. 

[Bernard Gui]

Just now, pogi said:

There simply isn’t always another bed.  People have already been turned away from ICU care and died as a result. It is in the news.

If you were the father of the son who was hit by a drunk driver, and if the drunk driver was given the last bed and lived while your son died, it would have take a celestial being to feel compassion and not be initiated at the drunk driver and hospital for turning away your son and choosing instead to care for the drunk driver.

Here we go again.  

[pogi]

4 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Here we go again.  

What?  We don’t have to agree to be civil.  It is a difficult moral dilemma and human expression of emotion over the unfairness is understandable.  I would be angry as all get out if that was my son.

Edited September 9, 2021 by pogi

[pogi]

22 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Foolishness should not be a death sentence, IMO. 

Unfortunately, it too often is.  Kimmel aside, who should take priority of care - the unvaccinated dying of Covid, or someone hit by a drunk driver or stroke victim, etc.  This is unfortunately not a hypothetical scenario anymore in some locations.  It is a real moral dilemma.  Sure, you try to treat both and give equal care, but when that is not possible...then what?

Edited September 9, 2021 by pogi

[Bernard Gui]

9 minutes ago, pogi said:

What?  We don’t have to agree to be civil.  It is a difficult moral dilemma and human expression of emotion over the unfairness is understandable.  I would be angry as all get out if that was my son.

No, Kimmel was making a morbidly gratuitous joke at the expense of people who make foolishly uninformed choices. I have no need to be his apologist. 

[Calm]

25 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Sorry! I have another good friend who suffers with those. It’s no fun at all.

There are no treatments for clusters. Not even morphine works. I think I’m starting a cycle now. About every 13 months.

Off label use apparently, but have you tried Botox?  I had a friend who got her migraines treated that way,  but can’t remember for sure if they were cluster ones or not.  Not the usual version though.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31560734/

 

[smac97]

4 hours ago, smac97 said:

This just in: Pres. Biden will sign (or has signed) an executive order requiring all federal employees and contractors to be vaccinated, without the option of getting regular testing.

And another development:

Quote

President Joe Biden is set to announce a sweeping new vaccine mandate for all companies in the U.S. that employ more than 100 workers.

Multiple news outlets are reporting that Biden will make the announcement during his speech on the state of the pandemic tonight at 5 p.m. According to Axios, the Department of Labor's Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) will serve as the enforcement mechanism for the mandate. Biden will direct the agency to craft a rule that requires large employers to mandate that workers either get vaccinated or submit to weekly testing.

I'm curious as to the constitutionality of these things.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

28 minutes ago, pogi said:

People have already been turned away from ICU care and died as a result. It is in the news.

I know of two people turned away, no beds, both survived so far though I believe.  One eventually got in when they went back, another last I heard they were going out of state to find one.  Another had to wait all day in ER waiting iirc before being put in an makeshift setup.