Covid III: Delta Force

[pogi]

2 hours ago, strappinglad said:

For the terminally curious ,

Don't waste your time, like I did.  I had some down time, so why not...

There is nothing of substance - just a bunch of speculative questions hinting at conspiracy and scandal but he fails to supply any evidence of anything.  Examples:

"Why wasn't this info available as public domain previously?"

"Why hasn't the mainstream media taken this up at all.  I would have thought this is a complete sandal, perhaps on par with Watergate..."  He went on to make some nonsense attempt to compare this to the faulty pretext for war that the US used to invade Iraq with claims of weapons of mass destruction.   Serious dude? 

The fact is that most of this stuff was public domain previously.  All of this data is comes from post marketing sources like VAERS, which is indeed public domain.  I think there is probably very little that the public didn't already have access to.  The minimal data that wasn't already available had sensitive HIPPA protected data, etc. 

In his analysis of the data, the glaring problem is that he NEVER once address the fact that all of these reported adverse events (AE's) have not yet (as of this report date) undergone causative analysis.  Those analysis have since been done.  AE's directly associated with the vaccine will be found in the Vaccine Information Statement that all patients are provided access to before vaccination. Throughout the video he wrongly suggests that all of these AE's and deaths are caused by the vaccine.   As I have already demonstrated, there are several sections that deal with the fact that a causal relationship cannot be assumed.  The report specifically warns of making such a conclusions...that doesn't stop him however from doing just that.  He seems to have completely skipped over all of those parts.  Didn't mention them once. Why, I wonder?

He questions, "If she has access to this data, how can she say that millions of doses have been given safely?"  - Ummm...because they have.

My question to him is, can he show me otherwise?  Nope.

He concludes, "favorable benefit: risk balance - is that their conclusion?" 

Yes...yes it is.  Even if we were to assume that all of these AE's were causally associated with the vaccine, there is still less than 1% of people who sought medical care after vaccination.  Shall we compare that with hospitalizations and deaths from Covid?

It is a really a deplorable attempt to try and lead people to believe that all of these AE's are causally associated with the vaccine.  He looks, and talks, and sounds like a reasonable man (maybe it is just his accent), but the words he says are really out there and not transparent at all in his assessment of the data. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by pogi

[cinepro]

19 hours ago, strappinglad said:

What is the bit about the FDA wanting to keep this info classified for 75 years ?

 

A 55 000-page set of documents revealed the Pfizer Covid vaccine, Comirnaty, has 1,291 side effects.

The information was only released on 8 March, Tuesday, in a 38-page report. This followed a request made by the FDA’s CBER to suppress the data for the next 75 years. On 6 January, it was denied.

Yes, and those 1,291 "side effects" include reports of things like "genital herpes", "Zika virus associated Guillain Barre syndrome",  "Pneumonia measles", "sensation of foreign body", and "suspected Covid-19".

Although I can only imagine the conversations..."No dear, I didn't get herpes from cheating on you. It's from the Pfizer vaccine. It's a known side effect!" 🙄

https://www.riotimesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Pfizer-real-data-released.pdf

Edited March 11, 2022 by cinepro

[Calm]

Who is the guy in the video…the way he is talking does not give me a lot of confidence he will understand what the documents mean even with his very reassuring, articulate voice?

Edited March 11, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

1 hour ago, cinepro said:

Yes, and those 1,291 "side effects" include reports of things like "genital herpes", "Zika virus associated Guillain Barre syndrome",  "Pneumonia measles", "sensation of foreign body", and "suspected Covid-19".

Although I can only imagine the conversations..."No dear, I didn't get herpes from cheating on you. It's from the Pfizer vaccine. It's a known side effect!" 🙄

https://www.riotimesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Pfizer-real-data-released.pdf

Been missing your insight and wit, I wish you posted more.

[Rivers]

16 hours ago, Calm said:

Who is the guy in the video…the way he is talking does not give me a lot of confidence he will understand what the documents mean even with his very reassuring, articulate voice?

This is Dr John Campbell.  I watch his videos once in a while.  He seems like he knows what he’s talking about.  He seems like a middle-of-the-road guy when it comes to Covid.  I find the people who don’t fall into one extreme or the other to be the most reliable.
 

 

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Rivers said:

This is Dr John Campbell.  I watch his videos once in a while.  He seems like he knows what he’s talking about.  He seems like a middle-of-the-road guy when it comes to Covid.  I find the people who don’t fall into one extreme or the other to be the most reliable.
 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Campbell_(YouTuber)
 

wiki is not the end all and certainly makes mistakes, but their criticism of possible issues does not give me confidence in him, especially if the death count being around 17,000 claim is correct.

Quote

January 2022, Campbell posted a Youtube video in which he cited figures from the UK's Office of National Statistics (ONS) suggesting they showed deaths from COVID-19 were "much lower than mainstream media seems to have been intimating" and concentrated on a figure of 17,371 death certificates where only COVID-19 was recorded as a cause of death. 

That is not a middle of a roader position to me.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Calm

[Bernard Gui]

On 3/9/2022 at 5:51 PM, pogi said:

I know you are saying this tongue-in-cheek, but unfortunately you are not wrong. 

Long-Covid symptoms have been so unbearable to some it has led to suicide.  Here is one well known example:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/21/business/kent-taylor-dead.html

My wife has suffered from long-covid with neurological sequelae for well over a year and a half now.  It has been traumatic for her.  Insomnia, anxiety related to her symptoms, depression due to life changes and wondering when it will all end.  She is tired of wondering if her legs will hold her up when she gets out of bed in the morning.  Her muscles give out on her on occasion.   She is concerned that her tremors in her hands will never stop or even get worse.  She is depressed due to the brain fog and increased forgetfulness, she is literally tired from fatigue.  She gets these weird temperature disturbances where it feels like hot water is burning different parts of her body off and on in areas the size of a silver dollar.  She is tired of all the neurologists and specialists she has seen not having any info for her in terms of prognosis or treatment.   

Thank goodness things are settling down with Covid.  

 

It was not said tongue in cheek. I think those are serious lingering maladies brought on by COVID and the related remedies and constant barrage of bad news. Just today on NPR I heard some sort of eco-biologist spreading warnings about COVID passing into the deer population and emerging stronger than the original. Constant fear mongering. What? Kill all the deer? What about Bambi?

 

[gurn]

16 minutes ago, Calm said:

wiki is not the end all and certainly makes mistakes, but their criticism of possible issues does not give me confidence in him, especially if the death count being around 17,000 claim is correct.

I've watched probably 50 of his self described "talks". The one in question was just the 17k statistic from the UK government that Covid was listed as the only cause of death. He clearly stated that many people would have lived longer and perhaps much longer had Covid not contributed to their deaths. 

He has been pro vaccination for the entire pandemic and very middle of the road. Though he has been willing to explore any alternative to help save lives. 

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, gurn said:

I've watched probably 50 of his self described "talks". The one in question was just the 17k statistic from the UK government that Covid was listed as the only cause of death. He clearly stated that many people would have lived longer and perhaps much longer had Covid not contributed to their deaths. 

He has been pro vaccination for the entire pandemic and very middle of the road. Though he has been willing to explore any alternative to help save lives. 

Thanks for the additional info.

[Rivers]

Having spent the entire pandemic working in a hospital taking care of patients, I don’t see much utility in quibbling over exact death numbers.  I’ve witnessed enough to know that Covid was no small thing regardless of precise numbers.

There’s so much talk about mortality, but there’s other things that deserve attention.  I’m curious to know how many people have had their quality of life severely diminished from severe illness.  Many Covid patients spend weeks on a ventilator and then go on to get a tracheostomy  to then spend more weeks or months recovering in long term care facilities.  These people technically are survivors but at a very high cost.  Just imagine these people’s hospital bills.  
 

There’s also all the people not getting adequate care due to over crowded hospitals.

And then there’s all the burned out healthcare workers and the potential PTSD some of them may suffer from.  
 

Covid has affected lots of people in various ways.

 

On the other hand, there’s a lot of harm caused by our response to Covid. Lots of harm going around.

 

 

 

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Just today on NPR I heard some sort of eco-biologist spreading warnings about COVID passing into the deer population and emerging stronger than the original. Constant fear mongering. What? Kill all the deer? What about Bambi?

"Fear mongering"?  "Kill all the deer"? 

Bernard, unless you want us to stick our head in the sand and ignore everything we know about zoonotic diseases (knowledge we had well before Covid ever came around), I suggest you let the scientists talk.  You would be wise to listen.  This isn't make believe.  This is a real potential risk with zoonotic diseases.  We have known this for a very, very, very, long time.  Covid infects WAY more animals than deer, by the way, making for an enormous host population where mutations can occur, sometimes even swapping genes with other viruses, etc.  Most of the time, this doesn't work out too well for the virus, but occasionally it can be a very bad thing for humans.    I highly doubt he suggested killing all the dear.  Perhaps you are the one over-reacting and coming to your own unreasonable conclusions.  I highly doubt that he suggested anything more than getting vaccinated and following all the precautions we already know about.  Maybe he would recommend wearing PPE if you are deer hunting.  Nothing unreasonable here Bernard.   Knowledge is power. 

[longview]

31 minutes ago, pogi said:

Maybe he would recommend wearing PPE if you are deer hunting.

That is asinine.  The hunter will have to wear hazmat suit and test the deer.   If positive, burn the deer?

If I was the hunter, I would dress down the deer and later cook it.  Damn the torpedoes.

Edited March 12, 2022 by longview

[Bernard Gui]

On 3/11/2022 at 7:00 PM, pogi said:

"Fear mongering"?  "Kill all the deer"? 

Bernard, unless you want us to stick our head in the sand and ignore everything we know about zoonotic diseases (knowledge we had well before Covid ever came around), I suggest you let the scientists talk.  You would be wise to listen.  This isn't make believe.  This is a real potential risk with zoonotic diseases.  We have known this for a very, very, very, long time.  Covid infects WAY more animals than deer, by the way, making for an enormous host population where mutations can occur, sometimes even swapping genes with other viruses, etc.  Most of the time, this doesn't work out too well for the virus, but occasionally it can be a very bad thing for humans.    I highly doubt he suggested killing all the dear.  Perhaps you are the one over-reacting and coming to your own unreasonable conclusions.  I highly doubt that he suggested anything more than getting vaccinated and following all the precautions we already know about.  Maybe he would recommend wearing PPE if you are deer hunting.  Nothing unreasonable here Bernard.   Knowledge is power. 
 

 

Did you listen to the interview? It was a she. They stoked fear. Every day there’s a new scare headline, something awful we are supposed to fear. Fear is the mind killer. 

I’m no science denier, pogi. Let’s not go there. Having grown up in Los Alamos amidst some pretty bright folks, I learned that most scientists are very, very smart, but they are not always dispassionate nor are they infallible. I notice that my position on masks has been validated by the latest science.

Killing the deer was my jest. Didn’t get the Bambi bit, I guess?

Edited March 13, 2022 by Bernard Gui

[strappinglad]

A new strain , deltacron????? The general thinking is... no big deal.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, strappinglad said:

A new strain , deltacron????? The general thinking is... no big deal.

Where are you seeing that?  This from a few days ago says too early as too few cases to tell, but could be concerning or not…pure speculation on my part:  it is apparently the spike protein of Omicron (which suggests highly contagious to me) and Delta body…Delta being a more severe variant, if it is as contagious as Omicron and as severe as Delta, that could be a problem.  Hopefully not.

https://nz.news.yahoo.com/grim-warning-over-hybrid-covid-strain-deltacron-034231289.html

Added:  I have read a few articles now that are saying since there have been so few cases since first likely seen, it likely has a slow enough growth rate so as not an issue like Omicron.  There is also likely more than one variant that is a recombination of Delta and Omicron, so one might be no big deal, but another might be an issue.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Calm

[Calm]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/128012238/avoid-covid19-if-you-can-your-brain-may-thank-you

 

Quote

These results held true even when the data from the 15 people who had been hospitalised was removed. Also, analysing data from a small group of UK Biobank participants who had experienced non-Covid-19-related pneumonia showed the changes were specific to Covid-19.

In other words, even a mild to moderate Covid-19 infection was enough to impact the brain.

The study is not able to cover the difference with vaccination yet or the effect of Delta or Omicron.

Anyone know if other diseases not generally connected with the brain in the public view have been studied in order to have something to compare this to?

The original paper for reference as I believe someone already posted it:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04569-5

Added:  I am seeing articles from past years indicating they were studying the effect of viruses on the brain already, so this probably shouldn’t be as surprising as it feels to me.  The difference is likely due to inflammation and therefore may reverse, though this may take years.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2782954/

This one reports about modified flu strains in mice where vaccination had a protective effect.

https://www.newsweek.com/does-flu-affect-your-mind-bad-memory-and-brain-changes-could-result-after-821097

Quote

If these findings turn up again in human studies, it would be nice to do something about it. Korte is on it. "We would like to know if we protect the mice with the same antidotes we are using [like Tamiflu] if they are also protected from the neurological effects," he said.

Those studies are already ongoing, and Smeyne thinks that intervention might actually work. In animal studies, he said, mice that were vaccinated against the flu didn't have this kind of immune response in their brains if they did get the virus. That might mean that getting a flu shot might be even more important than we realize.

"You may still get the flu, but it might protect you against this kind of longer-term inflammation," Smeyne said. "I hate to be the scary guy, but I think these are concerns that we have to have."

https://blog.degruyter.com/brain-health-whats-flu-got-to-do-with-it/

Edited March 14, 2022 by Calm

[pogi]

On 3/11/2022 at 10:52 AM, Rivers said:

This is Dr John Campbell.  I watch his videos once in a while.  He seems like he knows what he’s talking about.  He seems like a middle-of-the-road guy when it comes to Covid.  I find the people who don’t fall into one extreme or the other to be the most reliable.

On 3/11/2022 at 3:17 PM, gurn said:

I've watched probably 50 of his self described "talks". The one in question was just the 17k statistic from the UK government that Covid was listed as the only cause of death. He clearly stated that many people would have lived longer and perhaps much longer had Covid not contributed to their deaths. 

He has been pro vaccination for the entire pandemic and very middle of the road. Though he has been willing to explore any alternative to help save lives. 

If he was once pro vaccine, he no longer is. If he was middle -of-the-road, he no longer is.  He crossed the border into deep conspiracy theories, calling this a scandal on the scale of Watergate.  If he truly "knows what he is talking about", why is he suggesting that the vaccines are not safe based on his false claim that the AE's in this report are causally associated with the vaccine?  Why can't he see that even if they were causally associated with the vaccine the risk/benefit analysis would still favor vaccination based on hospitalization rates post vaccination vs Covid?  Why is he not being transparent with what the report actually says?  

 

[pogi]

On 3/12/2022 at 8:20 PM, Bernard Gui said:

Did you listen to the interview? It was a she. They stoked fear. Every day there’s a new scare headline, something awful we are supposed to fear. Fear is the mind killer. 

All I can do is go off of your explanation of the interview.  Didn't sound scary to me.  Nothing we didn't already know before Covid.  She was just telling the facts.  Are you suggesting that scientists should stop telling the facts because they may be scary to some?  What would the consequences of that be, I wonder?  Not good. 

We live in two different worlds.  I am way more conservative than you in my approach to Covid.  Many here have accused me of "fear mongering" more times than I can count over the last 2 years, so I take accusations as such with a grain of salt when they are directed at me or others who are promoting knowledge and self empowerment against Covid.   I don't think that telling the truth and warning people of actual dangers while teaching the best practice preventative measures is "fear mongering". 

On 3/12/2022 at 8:20 PM, Bernard Gui said:

I’m no science denier, pogi. Let’s not go there. 

Never said you were.  

On 3/12/2022 at 8:20 PM, Bernard Gui said:

Having grown up in Los Alamos amidst some pretty bright folks, I learned that most scientists are very, very smart, but they are not always dispassionate nor are they infallible.

Was she wrong?

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by pogi

[pogi]

On 3/11/2022 at 5:32 PM, longview said:

That is asinine.

Not really.

On 3/11/2022 at 5:32 PM, longview said:

The hunter will have to wear hazmat suit and test the deer.   If positive, burn the deer?

Nope.

 

[The Nehor]

Conspiracy theories are never rooted in rational thought and people are very rarely argued out of them. Reality itself is the enemy.

If you want a pretty good deep dive starting with flat earth and through to Q-Anon:

I know it is long but it is worth it and I found that this one sucked me in. Most of it I have heard before but it is a good assembly of the puzzle pieces.

[Calm]

38 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Conspiracy theories are never rooted in rational thought and people are very rarely argued out of them. Reality itself is the enemy.

If you want a pretty good deep dive starting with flat earth and through to Q-Anon:

I know it is long but it is worth it and I found that this one sucked me in. Most of it I have heard before but it is a good assembly of the puzzle pieces.

That guy has a dry but thorough sense of humor. 
 

Were the screenshots he put up at the beginning arguing about gravity door real arguments about flat earth or part of his humor?  It seems unlikely…but then I don’t understand how someone can argue a flat earth given the evidence that can be experienced oneself by simply getting on an international flight and timing it. 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Calm

[strappinglad]

An article about the new BA.2 variant. Try to overlook the lame humor. It is reasonably balanced.

Will BA.2 Omicron ‘Stealth Variant’ Cause Another Covid-19 Coronavirus Surge? (forbes.com)  

[The Nehor]

On 3/11/2022 at 11:52 AM, Rivers said:

This is Dr John Campbell.  I watch his videos once in a while.  He seems like he knows what he’s talking about.  He seems like a middle-of-the-road guy when it comes to Covid.  I find the people who don’t fall into one extreme or the other to be the most reliable.

Not middle of the road. He just communicates the idea that he is because some people trust people who present themselves as neutral more favorably.

Edited March 18, 2022 by The Nehor

[The Nehor]

On 3/16/2022 at 6:56 PM, Calm said:

That guy has a dry but thorough sense of humor. 
 

Were the screenshots he put up at the beginning arguing about gravity door real arguments about flat earth or part of his humor?  It seems unlikely…but then I don’t understand how someone can argue a flat earth given the evidence that can be experienced oneself by simply getting on an international flight and timing it. 

Those were real. Conspiracy theories are not designed to be reasonable. They start from the conclusion and then just fit the premises in any way they can. You don’t buy into them unless you are genuinely fooled due to ignorance of how bad the logic is (and that rarely lasts long) or you want to believe the conclusion so badly that if reality disagrees with you then reality is wrong.

[Calm]

10 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Those were real. Conspiracy theories are not designed to be reasonable. They start from the conclusion and then just fit the premises in any way they can. You don’t buy into them unless you are genuinely fooled due to ignorance of how bad the logic is (and that rarely lasts long) or you want to believe the conclusion so badly that if reality disagrees with you then reality is wrong.

The ‘evidence’ of water all ending up on the bottom side of the globe so countries like Australia would be underwater if a sphere because streams flow downhill…it hurts….

They must have slept through the gravity section of their science classes.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Calm