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Members getting harassed as they come to church


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20 minutes ago, Rain said:

I agree with how it should be handled and how that would likely be responded responded too.

I do know about being nervous about having my license plate filmed though.  The charity I am with had, along with other charities, protesters who filmed licenses and put them on the internet as well. 

Having someone next door to me who felt the same way as the protesters with all his friends, my husband I decided that when our teens needed the car they would take his car instead of mine. That way if my car got filmed then it would effect my kids less. I didn't want them ending up in a situation they were ill equipped to handle.

Well as you can see from the video, the more upset the members got the more license plates got filmed.  The more the members create drama the more clicks these guys get and the more exposure of the license plates get

 

since what they are doing is legal , I don’t see a better solution do you?

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1 hour ago, california boy said:

You are giving them exactly what they want, drama.

I don't think offering someone a bottle of water and a bit of polite conversation would be especially dramatic.

That being said I do agree with what you said above - about the best thing being for everyone to just ignore them completely.

Unfortunately, that's not going to happen.

So the second best thing would be for someone in authority - someone like the bishop or another leader - to become involved and help ensure everyone from the ward just moves along, doesn't engage with them, and ensures that the situation doesn't escalate.

 

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5 minutes ago, sheilauk said:

Yes, it’s stupid and it’s bullying.  Do bullies go if you ignore them? And hard to ignore when they stand right in front of your car and take photos of personal info that could subsequently be stolen and used by bad actors, or when they are taking photos of your children to put up on the internet.  That in particular is an issue for me.  I take photos in public places all the time of various items.  I try not to include children or if it’s unavoidable, to make them indistinct and I don’t post them on social media without the consent of the parents.  The reason should be obvious.  

So what is your solution?

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1 minute ago, california boy said:

So what is your solution?

Church leaders might want to send out a letter to all Bishops instructing their members to just ignore these people.

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2 hours ago, Raingirl said:

These morons have also “audited” domestic violence shelters and juvenile facilities, going so far as to film through windows.  They aren’t just annoying, their actions put people at real risk. I’ve never seen or heard of a “respectful auditor”. How is trespassing, harassing employees and the public, and invading privacy, respectful?There is no need for these “auditors”. They’re just chasing after some perverted vision of YouTube “fame”.   Monetizing YouTube has brought out all the crazies and grifters. 

Filming through violence shelter windows could put the folks inside at serious risk. This is criminal. One behavior that triggers anti-terrorist investigations is the filming of institutions and buildings.

Perhaps we should have auditors for all our civil rights….constantly checking up on each other, or it might be more efficient just to have Big Brother do it.

Or maybe we should take some pages from the Antifa playbook in dealing with photographers.…seems to work for them. 

Quote

Activists marched from Westlake to SPD West Precinct, halting the march in the middle of the street to throw projectiles over the fencing at the precinct. From there, Antifa militants started targeting individuals in the crowd, including reporters and video 'streamers.'

https://thepostmillennial.com/antifa-riots-in-downtown-seattle-in-response-to-offier-involved-shooting/

Edited by Bernard Gui
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1 minute ago, Amulek said:

I don't think offering someone a bottle of water and a bit of polite conversation would be especially dramatic.

That being said I do agree with what you said above - about the best thing being for everyone to just ignore them completely.

Unfortunately, that's not going to happen.

So the second best thing would be for someone in authority - someone like the bishop or another leader - to become involved and help ensure everyone from the ward just moves along, doesn't engage with them, and ensures that the situation doesn't escalate.

 

Yes.  A simple announcement from the pulpit asking members not to engage and why

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3 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

It's unforgetable.  But you adapt to it.  It's better when you live here and worse when you are visiting.   You learn all the short cuts, and what times of day NOT to travel. It's kind of like driving in snow- once you habituate to it, problems just become "life as we know it".  ;)

 

Nah. Insanely increasing traffic congestion is one of several reasons we have moved to Kentucky.

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31 minutes ago, california boy said:

So what is your solution?

Give them some chocolate, lots of chocolate.

 

And because I suspect very few will get that….

Quote

The Auditors gathered. They had been learning. Many of them had acquired weapons. And a number of them had taken care not to communicate to the others that gripping something offensive in the hand seemed a very natural thing to do. It spoke to something right down in the back of the brain.

It was therefore unfortunate that when a couple of them pulled open the elevator door it was to reveal, slightly melting in the middle of the floor, a cherry liqueur chocolate.

The scent wafted.

There was only one survivor and, when Miss Tangerine ate the chocolate, there wasn’t even that.
- Thief of Time, Terry Pratchett

For further details….

https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Auditors_of_Reality

https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Chocolat

https://wiki.lspace.org/Myria_LeJean

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35 minutes ago, california boy said:

Well as you can see from the video, the more upset the members got the more license plates got filmed.  The more the members create drama the more clicks these guys get and the more exposure of the license plates get

 

since what they are doing is legal , I don’t see a better solution do you?

Not really better, but I don't think offering them a bottle of water (or leftover treats from classes) would be a bad solution.  Ignore them or be friendly, depending on the situation.

But some people just don't respond well in some situations so I don't  blame them even if I preferred they remained calm.  

Training/roll play would help, but how often does this happen that you are even going to think of training? 

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35 minutes ago, california boy said:

Yes.  A simple announcement from the pulpit asking members not to engage and why

In the two videos I saw that wouldn't have been very effective. In one case, the so-called auditors were filming as people were arriving (i.e., before anyone was inside and capable of hearing an announcement from the pulpit), and in the other case they appeared to have been present toward the end of the block and were catching people as they were leaving (again, too late for anyone to know to make an announcement or for anyone to hear it, even if it were known).

Which isn't surprising because that's what these guys are going for: the element of surprise. And because of that, there's pretty much always going to be at least some sort of interaction.

I guess the church could preemptively start having bishops everywhere in the US start reading directions about how to handle this kind of situation from the pulpit once a quarter or so, but that seems even more disruptive and not worth whatever benefit may come from it.

 

Edited by Amulek
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28 minutes ago, Amulek said:

I guess the church could preemptively start having bishops everywhere in the US start reading directions about how to handle this kind of situation from the pulpit once a quarter or so, but that seems even more disruptive and not worth whatever benefit may come from it.

The guidelines were issued in 2016.  “Security Guidelines for Church Meetinghouses" was distributed throughout US and Canada.  It's mainly about what to do if someone is on the property or crashes a meeting.

Quote

Preventive Security Practices
Priesthood leaders encourage members to report suspicious items, persons, or behaviors observed in Church buildings and parking lots. Those assigned to greet members arriving at meetings are to be friendly and observant. Suspicious items, persons, or behaviors are reported immediately to priesthood leaders or police as circumstances require.

Do not approach suspicious persons sitting or roaming in the building or parking lot alone. Monitor persons loitering around vehicles or remaining in their vehicles for long periods of time during meetings. If a person’s behavior becomes disorderly or unacceptable, calmly invite him or her to stop the behavior or leave the property. If he or she refuses to comply, call the police. Priesthood leaders and Church members are discouraged from taking physical action against disorderly persons. Priesthood leaders encourage members not to leave packages, briefcases, backpacks, or bags unattended in Church buildings or parking lots. Do not touch unattended items that seem suspicious by their composition or placement. If the owner cannot be located, clear the area around the item of people, and notify priesthood leaders immediately. If there is no reasonable explanation for what the item is or why it was left there, report it to the police.

 

Responding to a Disruptive Person in a Church Meeting

If a person becomes disruptive during a Church meeting, be respectful, speak calmly and with self-control, and respect his or her personal space.

Whether the person causing the disturbance remains seated in the congregation, approaches the stand, or stands at the pulpit, approach the person and ask him or her to stop or to leave, or invite the person to meet with a priesthood leader in the foyer. Tell the person that his or her behavior or comments are inappropriate. If the person has been asked to leave but refuses, inform him or her that the police may be notified and he or she may be arrested for trespassing. If the person refuses to leave and continues to cause a disturbance at the pulpit, turn off the microphone and dismiss the meeting. Do not attempt to physically restrain the person unless it is absolutely necessary. (Adapt these guidelines as needed for auxiliary meetings, classes, or other Church events or activities.)

If a serious or dangerous disruption is occurring on Church property, call the police. When the situation is under control, notify your priesthood leader and the Church Security Department.

There's also a section on armed intruders or active shooters - the church favors the "Run/Hide/Fight" approach, which is IMO one of the best approaches for most businesses/churches/assembled groups.

Edited by LoudmouthMormon
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1 hour ago, california boy said:

So what is your solution?

Is it legal to behave in a disorderly way even in a public place? It's not in the UK.  My solution would be to stay calm and avoid interaction, I wouldn't talk to them or approach them,  i'd call the police and photograph/video them and if they stayed, form a choir and sing hymns and pray.  When I've faced disruptive people and got out my camera, they've walked away.  Might not work for these narcissists but you'd have evidence for the police and they'd have a film showing them being filmed and with a gospel soundtrack.  You could also perhaps  create a cordon,  at a distance from them and leaving them a way out, so that they could only get close enough to get details by forcing their way through.   That would mean them risking getting arrested for assault.  

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4 minutes ago, sheilauk said:

You could also perhaps  create a cordon,  at a distance from them and leaving them a way out, so that they could only get close enough to get details by forcing their way through. 

I was thinking about that…make sure no short tempers included.  :)

Might even be smart to have the RS do it if they wanted to as that would be a bad look if they pushed through…

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Since their goal seems to be for “educating” the public on the First Amendment rights, why not just go out and welcome them and use their video to publicize the message of the Book of Mormon, or something like that?  Maybe even bring the missionaries along.  Don't give them any of the reactions they are looking for, but embrace the opportunity and turn it around to be about everyone's First Amendment rights.  And it probably wouldn't hurt to have someone else take a video of that happening, just in case they do something showing they are breaking the law.

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5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Nah. Insanely increasing traffic congestion is one of several reasons we have moved to Kentucky.

Hoooooley Cowwww, Man! 💣 :shok: :blink: :o 

Well, I hope you and your loved ones will be happy wherever you are, and I know you'll be an asset to your neighborhood, to your community, and to your ward and stake.

(By the time you read this, of course, better said, I hope you all had a) Bon voyage!

Is it too much In-Real-Life information to inquire, whereabouts in Kentucky?  (I'm sure it's beautiful country; I've never had occasion to visit, alas!)

 

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I'm sure, in many ways, it's not the same thing, but when I think about these Idioter ... um, I mean, Auditors :huh:  Sorry! ... accosting congregants as they leave meetings of the Church of Jesus Christ, I can't help but think of the experience I had leaving the Conference Center after singing at General Conference in a regional choir a few years ago ... missionaries and youth on one side, singing hymns and other songs of the Restoration, street screechers on the other, spouting their typical bilge, members of the choir filing through, right down the middle! :huh: 

Fun times! :D 

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5 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

….missionaries and youth on one side, singing hymns and other songs of the Restoration, street screechers on the other, spouting their typical bilge, members of the choir filing through, right down the middle! :huh: 

I went there too…does this happen anymore?  At least preCovid?

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6 minutes ago, Calm said:

I went there too…does this happen anymore?  At least preCovid?

Good question.  I wonder if street screechers, cognizant of the law of diminishing returns, have given up their usual April-and-October schtick.  Anybody else see any irony in the fact that it seems that the only people protesting at General Conference these days are (or were) purported members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Sam Young, Ordain Women, et cetera, ad infinitum (at least, so it seems))? :blink: 

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4 hours ago, CA Steve said:

These people are the real life equivalent of an internet troll.

The best way to treat them is not react at all.

They are just looking for a reaction, any reaction.

 

 

This, if they try to confront you just act incredibly bored and distracted.

For bonus fun take a lesson from church history. Go sit on the steps and get out a very large knife and a piece of wood and start whittling. Occasionally glance at them with a piercing stare. Occasionally hold the knife up so it looks like you are about to throw it at them.

Oh, and I think you are supposed to whistle too.

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I would record them back, put them on my YouTube channel, and make profit. I probably have more subscribers than them. Hahahahaha 

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54 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

This, if they try to confront you just act incredibly bored and distracted.

For bonus fun take a lesson from church history. Go sit on the steps and get out a very large knife and a piece of wood and start whittling. Occasionally glance at them with a piercing stare. Occasionally hold the knife up so it looks like you are about to throw it at them.

Oh, and I think you are supposed to whistle too.

But remember to clean up the shavings

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