A science-based reason to avoid caffeine habituation

[Meadowchik]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

Advertising, choice of what to supply by producers and distributors, advice from medical professionals and tons more from amateurs…all that is external interference and yet everyone survives that….

No, not everyone "survives" that. Ftr though, you're bringing up survival. I was speaking about spiritual health.

 

5 hours ago, Calm said:

….sure, external interference can be troublesome, but it is not inherent and need not be.

External interference is inherent in the church's relationship with our worthiness and tea and coffee consumption.

Worthiness contingent on tea and coffee consumption. On the one hand, one may question why the faithful would not give up something so trivial. On the other hand, one may question why a church would make worthiness contingent upon something so trivial.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Meadowchik

[Bob Crockett]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Haha, lol. Bill's posts don't have as good of grammar than even Warlock's. But that's not to say Bill is unintelligent, he's just not worried about that as much. 

I think Bill deeply cares about the quality of his writing, which isn't worth sheets.  He would routinely report my posts for poking him for his grammatical errors. My theme with him then was to say that it showed he didn't read much.  I had to turn off my PM feature in this forum precisely because he was constantly pinging me privately.  I found it very annoying and needy.  He needs to be heard, to be front and center, to be talked about in a positive manner.  Way more than just about anybody else I know.

My assessment is that Bill lacks the grey matter stuff to write about Mormon issues.  He picks off the easy stuff, but doesn't say much about the difficult issues.  Just like Atlantic Mike and just like this new guy.

It was my original error to see him for the xxxxxxx he really is and to tackle his original posts about conducting firesides to help bishops and stake presidents with faith crisis issues.  I confronted him early on the board and painted a huge target on my back.  Then when he went to FAIR I was beside myself with laughter and made a further fool of myself. 

But then I have an unhealthy penchant for confronting self-important posters on this board when I myself am self-important.

I don't care if he posts on this board, with or without sockpuppets.  I suppose I should care even less about his disineguity, as there is plenty of that on this board.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Bob Crockett

[Tacenda]

4 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

I think Bill deeply cares about the quality of his writing, which isn't worth sheets.  He would routinely report my posts for poking him for his grammatical errors. My theme with him then was to say that it showed he didn't read much.  I had to turn off my PM feature in this forum precisely because he was constantly pinging me privately.  I found it very annoying and needy.  He needs to be heard, to be front and center, to be talked about in a positive manner.  Way more than just about anybody else I know.

My assessment is that Bill lacks the grey matter stuff to write about Mormon issues.  He picks off the easy stuff, but doesn't say much about the difficult issues.  Just like Atlantic Mike and just like this new guy.

It was my original error to see him for the xxxxxxx he really is and to tackle his original posts about conducting firesides to help bishops and stake presidents with faith crisis issues.  I confronted him early on the board and painted a huge target on my back.  Then when he went to FAIR I was beside myself with laughter and made a further fool of myself. 

But then I have an unhealthy penchant for confronting self-important posters on this board when I myself am self-important.

I don't care if he posts on this board, with or without sockpuppets.  I suppose I should care even less about his disineguity, as there is plenty of that on this board.

Well, thanks for the back story! Bill is getting a too big for his britches now with his podcasts and with youtube with Consig. 

[Bob Crockett]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Well, thanks for the back story! Bill is getting a too big for his britches now with his podcasts and with youtube with Consig. 

I don't condemn him for that. I can't see why Consig would waste his time with Bill.  But have at it boys.  

[BlueDreams]

On 7/28/2021 at 7:20 AM, Meadowchik said:

 

For you, the "abstaining from coffee and certain teas hold meaning" related to your beliefs. Would you still abstain if the abstinence weren't a requirement of worthiness?

For example, you might choose to abstain from dairy products for spiritual reasons also, but that abstinence has no impact on church worthiness.

There's a difference between making such decisions based on personally-developed decisions versus church requirements.

 

Kinda blanked on responding to this and just remembered today that I never did. 

This one is more complicated for me. I would, if it wasn't a requirement suddenly today, still choose to abstain from coffee and certain teas. Not only because the one time I tasted coffee I was definitely not a fan of the stuff, but because I'm very converted to the WoW in general. And I would also, if I had been there back in the day, sustained the decision to make it a temple requirement and more of a command/expectation than simply good advice. For one, the language of the blessings in the word of wisdom are ones directly tied to the language of the temple. I find it preparatory for the purposes of the temple. For another, I'm okay with having communal expectations in general. That is part of my belief structure that focuses not solely on individual spiritual journeys but interlinking those into one as a fundamental purpose to the church.

To me, dairy products have no direct yea or nay in the WoW, so choosing to not have it wouldn't be related to something I'd expect from the general body of the church. It can be indirectly related in the sense that being open to the WoW and trying to practice it may give an added wisdom for something that may specifically help you. This actually happened to me at the tale end of my pregnancy. I ended up with high blood pressure and was starting to look pre-eclamptic. My midwife allowed me to try and get it under control with very regular monitoring. Among other things, I was prompted to cut dairy entirely. I got back into a normal range and the marginal protein that was showing up in my urine disappeared even though everything I was reading said it doesn't really happen. After baby I went back to enjoying dairy. To me it was a blessing tied to my personal adherence to the WoW even though the specific guidance I wouldn't expect to see replicated for the whole of the church or even fully for the rest of my own life.    

But I think the language that you use such as "church worthiness" is more cultural language that is easily misconstrued or used in a way that I don't agree with and find problematic. Doing things just because someone tells you to or because it's what is expected isn't enough long term and in my opinion can lead to pharisaical mentalities that lead to following every cultural interpretation of a commandment and/or rejection of what is actually good because its never given meaning. Assuming that worthy in the sense of "willing and working to take up ones cross/calling" v. "says something about my fundamental value as a human" are two very different things. One is humbling the other can be either a source of pride/shame. Without a reference to truer purpose and meaning of these can definitely lead to problems. I don't think they're inherent to the practice of having it as a command. But that without meaning and clearer understanding as to the "why's" of a practice it's also fairly worthless to me long term. I think we as a church can be better at teaching these more clearly. 

 

With luv,

BD 

Edited August 5, 2021 by BlueDreams

[mfbukowski]

16 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

Kinda blanked on responding to this and just remembered today that I never did. 

This one is more complicated for me. I would, if it wasn't a requirement suddenly today, still choose to abstain from coffee and certain teas. Not only because the one time I tasted coffee I was definitely not a fan of the stuff, but because I'm very converted to the WoW in general. And I would also, if I had been there back in the day, sustained the decision to make it a temple requirement and more of a command/expectation than simply good advice. For one, the language of the blessings in the word of wisdom are ones directly tied to the language of the temple. I find it preparatory for the purposes of the temple. For another, I'm okay with having communal expectations in general. That is part of my belief structure that focuses not solely on individual spiritual journeys but interlinking those into one as a fundamental purpose to the church.

To me, dairy products have no direct yea or nay in the WoW, so choosing to not have it wouldn't be related to something I'd expect from the general body of the church. It can be indirectly related in the sense that being open to the WoW and trying to practice it may give an added wisdom for something that may specifically help you. This actually happened to me at the tale end of my pregnancy. I ended up with high blood pressure and was starting to look pre-eclamptic. My midwife allowed me to try and get it under control with very regular monitoring. Among other things, I was prompted to cut dairy entirely. I got back into a normal range and the marginal protein that was showing up in my urine disappeared even though everything I was reading said it doesn't really happen. After baby I went back to enjoying dairy. To me it was a blessing tied to my personal adherence to the WoW even though the specific guidance I wouldn't expect to see replicated for the whole of the church or even fully for the rest of my own life.    

But I think the language that you use such as "church worthiness" is more cultural language that is easily misconstrued or used in a way that I don't agree with and find problematic. Doing things just because someone tells you to or because it's what is expected isn't enough long term and in my opinion can lead to pharisaical mentalities that lead to following every cultural interpretation of a commandment and/or rejection of what is actually good because its never given meaning. Assuming that worthy in the sense of "willing and working to take up ones cross/calling" v. "says something about my fundamental value as a human" are two very different things. One is humbling the other can be either a source of pride/shame. Without a reference to truer purpose and meaning of these can definitely lead to problems. I don't think they're inherent to the practice of having it as a command. But that without meaning and clearer understanding as to the "why's" of a practice it's also fairly worthless to me long term. I think we as a church can be better at teaching these more clearly. 

 

With luv,

BD 

Bingo!

Perhaps selling caffeinated soft drinks in the temple can be seen as one small step for a member but a giant leap for the church toward personal revelation on these matters.

Maybe we will get there after all!

[Stargazer]

On 7/27/2021 at 1:18 PM, The Nehor said:

It may entertain you to know that there are still some amongst us who find face cards an abomination and three Sundays ago I was playing poker Sunday evening. For chips instead of money though. I'm not a sinner.

Way back when one of my sons was training to be a blackjack dealer at a casino, one evening my wife roped me into playing blackjack with him as dealer (to give him some practice) and her and another son as players. With chips of course. I did not want to participate for various reasons but there I was. Since I don't like to play games stupidly, I put effort into making good conservative bets, after a time I had most of the chips, and not long thereafter I had probably 75% of the chips available. I was playing intelligently, winningly, but boringly. The wife decided I wasn't playing right (aka I was not making spectacular mistakes) and I got fed up with this, since I didn't really want to be doing it anyway. It was easy enough to make lousy bets, so I did so and was out after less than 10 minutes. 

After that I thought I might have enough skill at blackjack to play for real and profitably. I thought occasionally of visiting the local casino to see. But I never did. 

Gambling is a bad thing to get into, but despite Bruce R. McConkie's take on it, I still don't consider playing at cards as sinful. Stupid, maybe. Face cards or not. 

One of my daughters did work at a casino (my son never worked at it, despite his training), and told us that one night a woman came into the place, rented a table for herself alone (my daughter's), and proceeded to lose about $20,000 in the next few hours. She tipped my daughter well, too. What a waste. It was a casino owned by an Indian tribe, so I guess it could be seen as payback -- the white man stole their land, so now they get to steal it all back, legally. Sort of.

[JAHS]

13 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Way back when one of my sons was training to be a blackjack dealer at a casino, one evening my wife roped me into playing blackjack with him as dealer (to give him some practice) and her and another son as players. With chips of course. I did not want to participate for various reasons but there I was. Since I don't like to play games stupidly, I put effort into making good conservative bets, after a time I had most of the chips, and not long thereafter I had probably 75% of the chips available. I was playing intelligently, winningly, but boringly. The wife decided I wasn't playing right (aka I was not making spectacular mistakes) and I got fed up with this, since I didn't really want to be doing it anyway. It was easy enough to make lousy bets, so I did so and was out after less than 10 minutes. 

After that I thought I might have enough skill at blackjack to play for real and profitably. I thought occasionally of visiting the local casino to see. But I never did. 

Gambling is a bad thing to get into, but despite Bruce R. McConkie's take on it, I still don't consider playing at cards as sinful. Stupid, maybe. Face cards or not. 

One of my daughters did work at a casino (my son never worked at it, despite his training), and told us that one night a woman came into the place, rented a table for herself alone (my daughter's), and proceeded to lose about $20,000 in the next few hours. She tipped my daughter well, too. What a waste. It was a casino owned by an Indian tribe, so I guess it could be seen as payback -- the white man stole their land, so now they get to steal it all back, legally. Sort of.

I have played enough games just on the computer that are mostly a matter of random chance, to know how happy I am that I do not actually gamble for money for real.

[The Nehor]

33 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Way back when one of my sons was training to be a blackjack dealer at a casino, one evening my wife roped me into playing blackjack with him as dealer (to give him some practice) and her and another son as players. With chips of course. I did not want to participate for various reasons but there I was. Since I don't like to play games stupidly, I put effort into making good conservative bets, after a time I had most of the chips, and not long thereafter I had probably 75% of the chips available. I was playing intelligently, winningly, but boringly. The wife decided I wasn't playing right (aka I was not making spectacular mistakes) and I got fed up with this, since I didn't really want to be doing it anyway. It was easy enough to make lousy bets, so I did so and was out after less than 10 minutes. 

After that I thought I might have enough skill at blackjack to play for real and profitably. I thought occasionally of visiting the local casino to see. But I never did. 

Gambling is a bad thing to get into, but despite Bruce R. McConkie's take on it, I still don't consider playing at cards as sinful. Stupid, maybe. Face cards or not. 

One of my daughters did work at a casino (my son never worked at it, despite his training), and told us that one night a woman came into the place, rented a table for herself alone (my daughter's), and proceeded to lose about $20,000 in the next few hours. She tipped my daughter well, too. What a waste. It was a casino owned by an Indian tribe, so I guess it could be seen as payback -- the white man stole their land, so now they get to steal it all back, legally. Sort of.

Play Blackjack long enough and the house always wins.

[Stargazer]

41 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Play Blackjack long enough and the house always wins.

I have no doubt of it. 

And if you start consistently winning, and even if they can't see if you're counting cards and have no reason to think you're cheating in any other fashion, they will still firmly invite you to leave and not come back.

Because the house always wins.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I have no doubt of it. 

And if you start consistently winning, and even if they can't see if you're counting cards and have no reason to think you're cheating in any other fashion, they will still firmly invite you to leave and not come back.

Because the house always wins.

It is harder and harder to pull that off. Some places reshuffle completely after each hand (with shuffling machines). Others track betting habits.

The best method left I have heard of is to put a few players out to a few tables who bet consistently low bets no matter what the count is but they run a count. When the count favors the player a signal is made and another player arrives who consistently bets high to take advantage.

Even with these advantages exploited it is rare to get over an average 1-2% gain. You have to bet a lot to make money at that level of winning and a bad day can wipe you out unless you have heaps of cash in which case there are usually easier and more reliable ways to make money anyways.

No, I haven’t spent a lot of time trying to figure out a way to beat the system.

Here is a guy who figured out a flaw in the odds of a state lottery and made bank. Gotta admire this:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jerry-and-marge-selbee-how-a-retired-couple-won-millions-using-a-lottery-loophole-60-minutes/

[bsjkki]

https://www.studyfinds.org/mental-health-diet-and-lifestyle/