Dan reynolds on mormonism

[Bernard Gui]

10 hours ago, ksfisher said:

Bell Bottom Blues - Derek and the Dominoes

Tracks of My Tears - Smokey Robinson and the Miracles

Box of Rain - Grateful Deal

Powderfinger - Neil Young

When the Tigers Broke Free - Pink Floyd

Sea and Sand - The Who

 

I‘m kinda partial to Friedrich Ruckert and Gustaf Mahler’s ‘Kindertotenlieder.’ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt1q2Z1s5p8

Edited July 17, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[smac97]

37 minutes ago, pogi said:

It just felt a little stony and dismissive to say "yeah, pretty mopey/angsty".  Who says that about another in grief? 

Again, that's how Dan characterized his own music.  I was agreeing with it.

37 minutes ago, pogi said:

I find it hard to believe that he doesn't like some of the songs I listed which express similar grief. 

So do I.

37 minutes ago, pogi said:

This whole thread just comes off as a personal dislike for Dan.

I don't care for some of the public disparagements Dan has made of the faith that he now points to as sustaining his brother ("I’ve also seen his faith bring him hope in a future with her").  I also don't care for him having set himself up as a voice of authority alternative and superior to that of the prophets and apostles (see, specifically, this).

That said, I am actually hopeful that Dan can come to a realization of the value of what he has left behind.  He says he is "no longer ... a man of fervent faith," and that the song is "my wish for an eternity with those that I love."  He can have that.  We all can. 

37 minutes ago, pogi said:

It just feels like smac really wants to highlight that Dan is a "wreck", and not in the ways that Dan intended to mean. 

No.  That was not my intent.  As I said in the OP: "I wish him well."

I feel a lot of sympathy for him.  I think he's emotionally all over the place.  I think he's . . . untethered.

I lost a dear friend just over a year ago.  To cancer.  I'm still working through it.  I still have his number in my "Contacts" list on my phone, and I occasionally send him a text, mostly as a reminder to myself that he's still here, just out of sight.  That I will see him again.  That there is a Plan.  That despondency and grief and loss are transitory, and will ultimately give way to hope and light and joy.

I normally don't "read into" lyrics of popular songs much, largely because I seldom know much about the person who wrote the lyrics.  However, there is somewhat of a commonality between me and Dan.  I've never met him, but I have a pretty good understanding of what he used to believe - because I believe it.  He grew up in the Church, in a family in the Church, so did I.  He served a mission, so did I.  He taught the lessons about God and Jesus Christ and the Atonement and the Plan of Salvation, so did I.  

And now he's left.  And having left, he is now struggling with the loss of a loved one.  Again, the music video ends with a poignant truth: "When trials come, things that are important become really clear."  I really agree with that sentiment.  I hope Dan can get through the despondency and despair and rediscover what I think he previously believed.  That families can be together forever.

Here are the lyrics:

Quote

"Wrecked"
 

Days pass by and my eyes stay dry, and I think that I'm okay
'Till I find myself in conversation fading away
The way you smile, the way you walk, the time you took
To teach me all that you had taught
Tell me, how am I supposed to move on?

These days I'm becoming everything that I hate
Wishing you were around but now it's too late
My mind is a place that I can't escape your ghost

Sometimes I wish that I could wish it all away
One more rainy day without you
Sometimes I wish that I could see you one more day
One more rainy day

Oh, I'm a wreck without you here
Yeah, I'm a wreck since you've been gone
I've tried to put this all behind me
I think I was wrecked all along
Yeah, I'm a wreck

They say that the time will heal it, the pain will go away
But everything, it reminds me of you and it comes in waves
The way you laugh when your shoulders shook, the time you took
To teach me all that you had taught
Tell me, how am I supposed to move on?

These days I'm becoming everything that I hate
Wishing you were around but now it's too late
My mind is a place that I can't escape your ghost

Sometimes I wish that I could wish it all away
One more rainy day without you
Sometimes I wish that I could see you one more day
One more rainy day

Oh, I'm a wreck without you here
Yeah, I'm a wreck since you've been gone
I've tried to put this all behind me
I think I was wrecked all along

These days when I'm on the brink of the edge
I remember the words that you said
Remember the life you led

You'd say, "Oh, suck it all up, don't get stuck in the mud
Thinkin' of things that you should have done
I'll see you again, my loved one"

I'll see you again, my loved one
Yeah, I'm a wreck
I'll see you again, my loved one

Yeah, I'm a wreck without you here
Yeah, I'm a wreck since you've been gone (Since you've been gone)
I've tried to put this all behind me
I think I was wrecked all along
Yeah, I'm a wreck

Sometimes I wish that I could wish it all away
One more rainy day without you
Sometimes I wish that I could see you one more day
One more rainy day

Thanks,

-Smac

[ksfisher]

41 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Bell Bottom Blues - Derek and the Dominoes

Tracks of My Tears - Smokey Robinson and the Miracles

Box of Rain - Grateful Deal

Powderfinger - Neil Young

When the Tigers Broke Free - Pink Floyd

Sea and Sand - The Who

 

I should have added Everything I Own by Bread.  Both that and Box of Rain were inspired by the death of the writers father.

You sheltered me from harm
Kept me warm, kept me warm
You gave my life to me
Set me free, set me free
The finest years I ever knew
Were all the years I had with you

And I would give anything I own
Give up my life, my heart, my home
I would give everything I own
Just to have you back again

You taught me how to love
What it's of, what it's of
You never said too much
But still you showed the way
And I knew from watching you
Nobody else could ever know
The part of me that can't let go

And I would give anything I own
Give up my life, my heart, my home
I would give everything I own
Just to have you back again

Is there someone you know
You're loving them so
But taking them all for granted
You may lose them one day
Someone takes them away
And they don't hear the words you long to say

I would give anything I own
Give up my life, my heart, my home
I would give everything I own
Just to have you back again
Just to touch you once again

[pogi]

 

48 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Strawman.

I can appreciate music that acknowledges and addresses pain and grief and loss.

Not a strawman.   I was simply pointing out that it seems strange to not like a song because it is based in grief and loss.  You said it wasn't your "cuppa".   That's all emo is.  It is expressive music based on emotional pain, grief, or loss.  The modern genre of "emo" is mystifying to me as emo music has existed since the very roots of American music and has fueled the industry.   Can there be anything more emo than the blues and most of old-time country/folk?  It is all very "emo".  There is nothing new about emo.  My point was that I can't understand why someone would be dismissive of a song simply because it expresses deep emotion of grief and loss.  That seemed to be your main reason for disliking for the song.  I just found it hard to believe that anyone could not appreciate a song simply because it was based in loss and grief and sadness.  I can understand why you might dislike the modern "genre' emo.  I don't particularly like much of it myself.  But a good sad song is a good sad song precisely because it is sad.  It sounded like you were dismissing all sad music because it was sad.  

48 minutes ago, smac97 said:

In a sense, the song isn't as "emo" as I initially thought.  

Emo just stands for emotional.  I think that song very much fit the bill.  I didn't hear any "angst" in the song though and I do find it a bit stony to describe the grief at the loss of a family member as "mopey" and therefore distasteful. 

48 minutes ago, smac97 said:

So I've watched it a few more times.  I must admit it's growing on me.

Me too.  I found it very touching, real, and relatable. 

Edited July 16, 2021 by pogi

[smac97]

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

Not a strawman.   I was simply pointing out that it seems strange to not like a song because it is based in grief and loss. 

Strawman.  I did not say I dislike the song "because it is based in grief and loss."

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

You said it wasn't your "cuppa".   That's all emo is. 

I quite disagree.  There are all sorts of non-Emo songs that touch on and address "grief and loss," but do not wallow in it, do not glamorize and fetishize it.

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

My point was that I can't understand why someone would be dismissive of a song simply because it expresses deep emotion of grief and loss. 

Strawman.  I was not dismissive of the song because it expresses deep emotion of grief and loss.

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

That seemed to be your main reason for disliking for the song. 

You are incorrect.

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

I just found it hard to believe that anyone could not appreciate a song simply because it was based in loss and grief and sadness. 

Strawman.

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

I can understand why you might dislike the modern "genre' emo.  I don't particularly like much of it myself.  But a good sad song is a good sad song precisely because it is sad.  It sounded like you were dismissing all music because it was sad.  

You are in error.

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

Emo just stands for emotional.  I think that song very much fit the bill.  I didn't hear any "angst" in the song though and I do find it a bit stony to describe the grief at the loss of a family member as "mopey" and therefore distasteful. 

Me too.  I found it very touching, real, and relatable. 

Sounds like we are coming to be in agreement to some extent.

I was using "emo" in the way that I thought Dan was using it.  As a specific subgenre.

Thanks,

-Smac

[pogi]

29 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Strawman.  I did not say I dislike the song "because it is based in grief and loss."

I quite disagree.  There are all sorts of non-Emo songs that touch on and address "grief and loss," but do not wallow in it, do not glamorize and fetishize it.

Strawman.  I was not dismissive of the song because it expresses deep emotion of grief and loss.

You are incorrect.

Strawman.

You are in error.

Sounds like we are coming to be in agreement to some extent.

I was using "emo" in the way that I thought Dan was using it.  As a specific subgenre.

Thanks,

-Smac

Were you not implying that you didn't like the song because it was "mopey/angsty", knowing that the song was about the personal loss and grief over the loss of a close and beloved family member?  Was that not what you implied when you posted the video of the song and then commented "Yeah, pretty mopey / angsty.  Not really my cuppa."?  You were commenting on the video and song right, not the subgenre of emo?

If I am mistaken, that is fine, but your words come off that way to me. 

Edited July 16, 2021 by pogi

[smac97]

Just now, pogi said:

Were you not implying that you didn't like the song because it was "mopey/angsty", knowing that the song was about the personal loss and grief over the loss of a close and beloved family member, when you posted the video of the song and the commented "Yeah, pretty mopey / angsty.  Not really my cuppa."? 

Oi.  I've explained quite a bit.  I've told you what I think.  You can stop imputing thoughts and motivations onto me now.

And again, the song is growing on me.

Thanks,

-Smac

[pogi]

15 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Oi.  I've explained quite a bit.  I've told you what I think.  You can stop imputing thoughts and motivations onto me now.

And again, the song is growing on me.

Thanks,

-Smac

I am simply explaining where I was coming from when you accused me of throwing out strawmen left and right.  Maybe there should be some accountability in how you worded it. 

[smac97]

22 minutes ago, pogi said:

I am simply explaining where I was coming from when you accused me of throwing out strawmen left and right.  Maybe there should be some accountability in how you worded it. 

You have repeatedly mischaracterized/misunderstood what I have said/meant.  I have now corrected those mischaracterizations/misunderstandings.  No big deal, but no need to harp on either.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited July 16, 2021 by smac97

[Scott Lloyd]

7 hours ago, pogi said:

  I find it hard to believe that he doesn't like some of the songs I listed which express similar grief. 

I think a song has to be high quality to carry off that genre without coming across as navel gazing.  

The one song that I recognize on your list, “Fire and Rain” by James Taylor, succeeds in my view. I can’t speak to the other songs, not having heard them. But one song I can cite in that genre that does come off as maudlin is “Alone Again Naturally” by Gilbert O’Sullivan. 
 

But this is all a matter of artistic taste, which is ultimately fruitless to argue about. 

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I think a song has to be high quality to carry off that genre without coming across as navel gazing.  

The one song that I recognize on your list, “Fire and Rain” by James Taylor, succeeds in my view. I can’t speak to the other songs, not having heard them. But one song I can cite in that genre that does come off as maudlin is “Alone Again Naturally” by Gilbert O’Sullivan. 
 

But this is all a matter of artistic taste, which is ultimately fruitless to argue about. 

I am sure you have likely heard it, but If not, let me do the honors of sharing Tears in Heaven.  It is about the death of his 4 year old son Connor.

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by pogi

[Scott Lloyd]

17 minutes ago, pogi said:

I am sure you have likely heard it, but If not, let me do the honors of sharing Tears in Heaven.  It is about the death of his 4 year old son Connor.

 

Very nice. 
 

I’d not heard it before, but I like it. 
 

I’ll mention that a song doesn’t have to be about death and grieving to connect with me on an emotional level. One song that breaks me up is “Cat’s in the Cradle” by Harry Chapin. It’s about the transitory, fragile nature of father-son relationships. 
 

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by Scott Lloyd

[pogi]

13 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Very nice. 
 

I’d not heard it before, but I like it. 
 

I’ll mention that a song doesn’t have to be about death and grieving to connect with me on an emotional level. One song that breaks me up is “Cat’s in the Cradle” by Harry Chapin. It’s about the transitory, fragile nature of father-son relationships. 
 

 

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