Jump to content

Massive wealth of the church of jesus christ of latter-day saints


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, JAHS said:

It shouldn't be such a burden for the members to pay the tithing because they can get help through the fast offering program to make up the difference. All fast offering money goes into one big church account that can be used by anyone any place. 

Except if you read the handbook, it will say that church resources are only to be used after the family has exhausted resources with their relatives and other family members. So, it is not always that easy to get fast offering resources.

Link to comment
22 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

Except if you read the handbook, it will say that church resources are only to be used after the family has exhausted resources with their relatives and other family members. So, it is not always that easy to get fast offering resources.

Yes but most likely they are also poor so I doubt it would take much time to determine eligibility for fast offering help. 

Link to comment
8 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Yes but most likely they are also poor so I doubt it would take much time to determine eligibility for fast offering help. 

I’m taking about immense poverty in South America and other areas of the world.  There are no Bishop’s Storehouses to send the family. There is not a DI for non-food needs. There are not reserves of food.  Most of the ward members are just as poor.  These are the people that need help, yet the fast offerings paid are not really available like in parts of Utah.

Link to comment
6 hours ago, let’s roll said:

Imagine children spending the day enjoying activities and food in their home.   Should they expect to clean up after themselves at the end of the day?  Would their parents be wrong to teach them to do so?

If those same children spend a week visiting at their grandparents home, would it be appropriate for them to clean the home (including the bathrooms they used) prior to leaving?  I taught my children to do so with the understanding that doing so was an expression of gratitude to their grandparents for sharing their home as well as demonstration of love through service.

I read your analogy about the restaurant.  It is certainly apt in a situation when I’m paying for a service at a business owned by someone I don’t know. 

However, I don’t view Church buildings as places of business but rather homes opened up to me and all my brothers and sisters by our Heavenly Parents.  

Thus I believe my analogies are more apt.  I consider it a great blessing to use those buildings for which I am most grateful and cleaning those buildings is an opportunity to express my gratitude to my Heavenly Parents for opening their homes to me, and to demonstrate my love for them through service.

I was all for it when we helped clean the building as far as window cleanings or maybe vacuuming. But I think the church is wrong to have the members clean bathrooms or the deep cleans. Let the janitors keep their job and get paid for that. That's a job that the members shouldn't be doing because it needs to be done correctly and there is chemical involvement, and if the chemicals aren't strong enough to clean feces, it should be. I remember having to clean dried poop on the men's bathroom stall doors, probably some boy or something. Also, I'll never forget the RS president that was not a happy camper about having to clean bathrooms when it first came out. And I think the church is smellier since the change. 

 

 

Edited by Tacenda
Link to comment
57 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

These are the people that need help, yet the fast offerings paid are not really available like in parts of Utah.

Amount of fast offering available does not depend on the presence of Bishop's store houses (which are not in most parts of the world), or the amount a ward pays (as long as a Bishop can show its a genuine need it can never be "in the red"). 

Link to comment
57 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

I’m taking about immense poverty in South America and other areas of the world.  There are no Bishop’s Storehouses to send the family. There is not a DI for non-food needs. There are not reserves of food.  Most of the ward members are just as poor.  These are the people that need help, yet the fast offerings paid are not really available like in parts of Utah.

"Historically, fast offerings have seldom been sufficient to provide for all the welfare needs of the Church, and shortages have been met from general Church funds. The counsel of Church President Spencer W. Kimball remains in effect: "I think that when we are affluent, as many of us are, that we ought to be very, very generous; I think we should give, instead of the amount we saved by our two meals of fasting, perhaps much, much more-ten times more where we are in a position to do it" (CR [Apr. 1974], p. 184). (Encyclopedia of Mormonism)

So if there are not enough fast offerings then the general church funds are used to make up the difference. 

Link to comment
7 hours ago, 2BizE said:

Imagine taking your family to your favorite Italian restaurant. After eating the waiter presents you a check for $150 for the meal, which you pay.  Then the restaurant tells you that the restaurant now requires that before leaving, the patrons of restaurant need to wash their own dishes, and clean the bathrooms and mop the restaurant floor…what would you do in that situation?

I don’t see that as the same thing, not even close. The church buildings and temples belong to all members and we all need to take care of them. I just don’t like cleaning my own bathroom, much less one where the whole ward is doing their business. 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I was all for it when we helped clean the building as far as window cleanings or maybe vacuuming. But I think the church is wrong to have the members clean bathrooms or the deep cleans. Let the janitors keep their job and get paid for that. That's a job that the members shouldn't be doing because it needs to be done correctly and there is chemical involvement, and if the chemicals aren't strong enough to clean feces, it should be. I remember having to clean dried poop on the men's bathroom stall doors, probably some boy or something. Also, I'll never forget the RS president that was not a happy camper about having to clean bathrooms when it first came out. And I think the church is smellier since the change. 

]

 

Strongly agree!

Edited by Peacefully
Link to comment
30 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

I don’t see that as the same thing, not even close. The church buildings and temples belong to all members and we all need to take care of them. I just don’t like cleaning my own bathroom, much less one where the whole ward is doing their business. 

I have paid church members to clean my bathroom…
 

Young Women…they also get paid to vacuum, wash dishes, windows, etc…paid very well too.  :)

Link to comment
2 hours ago, 2BizE said:

I’m taking about immense poverty in South America and other areas of the world.  There are no Bishop’s Storehouses to send the family. There is not a DI for non-food needs. There are not reserves of food.  Most of the ward members are just as poor.  These are the people that need help, yet the fast offerings paid are not really available like in parts of Utah.

Are you sure about that?  In any case, even if there isn't a Bishop's Storehouse in the area, it's my understanding that, still (using Fast Offering funds or allowing use of the funds for this purpose) necessaries are purchased from retail outlets.  (Perhaps you know differently than I do: Consider this a friendly CFR. ;))  And, for that matter, I welcome correction and/or further illumination from anyone else who is more in-the-know than I am. Heck, even Mike Quinn, who harbors his share of skepticism toward the Church of Jesus Christ, still is impressed by how it uses its resources.  Thanks! 

Link to comment
41 minutes ago, Calm said:

I have paid church members to clean my bathroom…
 

Young Women…they also get paid to vacuum, wash dishes, windows, etc…paid very well too.  :)

I'm not sure I could pay them as much as you do, but would you mind sending some of them my way? :D :rofl::D  (I freely admit, housekeeping is not my strong suit! :huh:)

Link to comment
3 hours ago, 2BizE said:

I’m taking about immense poverty in South America and other areas of the world.  There are no Bishop’s Storehouses to send the family. There is not a DI for non-food needs. There are not reserves of food.  Most of the ward members are just as poor.  These are the people that need help, yet the fast offerings paid are not really available like in parts of Utah.

DI is too expensive.

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Peacefully said:

I don’t see that as the same thing, not even close. The church buildings and temples belong to all members and we all need to take care of them. I just don’t like cleaning my own bathroom, much less one where the whole ward is doing their business. 

Man, everybody who attends your ward uses the bathroom every week? :o :blink: :shok: 

Wow! :huh: 

Holy ... ummm ... crap! :huh:  (Sorry!  No pun intended! :D :rofl: :D )

Nobody can hold it for a couple of hours? :huh: 

Reminds me of the old joke: "Why do missionaries have such strong bladders?  They only get one P-day a week!"  Cue rimshot!  "Thanks!  I'll be here all week!  You're a great crowd!  Try the chicken, it's delicious!"  Actually, I've volunteered to clean bathrooms because I've found, for whatever reason (perhaps I simply don't take it seriously or don't know what I'm doing :huh:) that it's one of the easier things to do ...

To each his or her own, I suppose.

I wish you well. :) 

Link to comment
3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I was all for it when we helped clean the building as far as window cleanings or maybe vacuuming. But I think the church is wrong to have the members clean bathrooms or the deep cleans. Let the janitors keep their job and get paid for that. That's a job that the members shouldn't be doing because it needs to be done correctly and there is chemical involvement, and if the chemicals aren't strong enough to clean feces, it should be. I remember having to clean dried poop on the men's bathroom stall doors, probably some boy or something. Also, I'll never forget the RS president that was not a happy camper about having to clean bathrooms when it first came out. And I think the church is smellier since the change. 

 

 

I agree with this. It is an unnecessary risk to have members cleaning toilets and using chemicals, etc.  The church has $$ that members have already paid to cover the cost of church maintenance.  The church should hire professional janitors.

Link to comment
37 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

I agree with this. It is an unnecessary risk to have members cleaning toilets and using chemicals, etc.  The church has $$ that members have already paid to cover the cost of church maintenance.  The church should hire professional janitors.

You're welcome to your opinion that the Church of Jesus Christ should hire professional janitors, but "... unnecessary risk to have members cleaning toilets and using chemicals ..." :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:   Don't get me wrong: Again, you're entitled to your opinion, and it's not that I don't respect you (live and let live), but I'd have more respect for you if you said simply, "I clean more than enough toilets at home," or "I don't want to clean the church," or "I don't want to clean the church's bathrooms," or, "I hate cleaning the church period; it sucks ..."  To me (and heck, maybe I'm the only one :huh:) the "dangerous chemicals" bit (and I'm not saying that, potentially, they're not dangerous: Don't forget my background, but even so ...) seems just a little too pat, and maybe even just a little bit disingenuous.

No offense.

P.S.: You think the buildings are disgusting (my word; use whatever word you think fits) now?  How bad do you think they'd get if people started saying, "Ah, who cares?!  True, I just made a mess, but the Church of Jesus Christ pays someone to clean up after me anyway ..."

It's not just about saving money: It's about cultivating a sense of stewardship, a sense of proper pride.  If the person cleaning up might be me or someone I know, how much less likely do you think I'll be to make that mess?  I'm not a betting man, but if I were, and if someone were to bet me that I'd be much less likely to make that mess ... Yep!  I'd take the bet.

Edited by Kenngo1969
Link to comment
2 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I'm not sure I could pay them as much as you do, but would you mind sending some of them my way? :D :rofl::D  (I freely admit, housekeeping is not my strong suit! :huh:)

Every time I offer to share them with friends, they find out they prefer other less boring jobs.  I am too good at writing references too, lol.

However, this year I am getting clever and using my own grandkids, can’t runaway from Grandma.  :snort:

Link to comment
2 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Actually, I've volunteered to clean bathrooms because I've found, for whatever reason (perhaps I simply don't take it seriously or don't know what I'm doing :huh:) that it's one of the easier things to do ...

It was my family chore growing up, that and the living room/library.  Prefer bathrooms to kitchens or vacuuming…which is so noisy.  Just put my mind on some pleasant thoughts and zone out and by the time I get bored, the bathroom is sparkling…or it was before life happened.

Link to comment
8 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

 

P.S.: You think the buildings are disgusting (my word; use whatever word you think fits) now?  How bad do you think they'd get if people started saying, "Ah, who cares?!  True, I just made a mess, but the Church of Jesus Christ pays someone to clean up after me anyway ..."

people do that now. They know the stp will be in on day and clean everything up. 
 

 

 

8 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

It's not just about saving money: It's about cultivating a sense of stewardship, a sense of proper pride.  If the person cleaning up might be me or someone I know, how much less likely do you think I'll be to make that mess?  I'm not a betting man, but if I were, and if someone were to bet me that I'd be much less likely to make that mess ... Yep!  I'd take the bet.

yea one would think that would work, but the members cleaning buildings program has been around for what ?? Twenty years or something like that? The members are still leaving smashed Cheerios everywhere, and peeing on the floor in the bathroom, leaving dirty diapers in random classrooms or dirty dishes in the sink.  The janitors were a good thing because the mess wasn’t left to fester until sat am six days later before it got cleaned up. Until they bring back paid professionals, our buildings will continue to be a mess- at least the ones around here will be. At least we are saving money so there is that. 

Link to comment
7 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said:

 

 

yea one would think that would work, but the members cleaning buildings program has been around for what ?? Twenty years or something like that? The members are still leaving smashed Cheerios everywhere, and peeing on the floor in the bathroom, leaving dirty diapers in random classrooms or dirty dishes in the sink.  The janitors were a good thing because the mess wasn’t left to fester until sat am six days later before it got cleaned up. Until they bring back paid professionals, our buildings will continue to be a mess- at least the ones around here will be. At least we are saving money so there is that. 

One thing our ward does after church meetings on Sunday is to have the young men and women go around to all the rooms and empty the trash and take it out. That way nothing like food or dirty diapers are left there for a week.

Link to comment
7 minutes ago, randy said:

This notion is FALSE FALSE FALSE!!!   I got married VERY young.  Our Church family helped us countless times over the first decade and a half.  The Bishop ALWAYS gave me opportunities to work for what I received.  NEVER...EVER....was I ever made to feel like a "charity case"!  Also, I never FELT like I was a charity case.  Quite the contrary....although I knew I was in a tight spot, I always was able to maintain my dignity because I was working for what I received, plus...I was striving to live the gospel to the best of my ability and knowledge at the time.  I went to the Bishops Storehouse to pick up my families order....my wife and I went to the Bishops Storehouse to work.  I traveled with my EQ to Far West Welfare Farm to buck hay, repair fences and foundations.  I did what I was asked to do and what I was justifiably expected to do.      I was asked to pay my  5.00 a week in tithing because that is what the Lord had commanded me to do.   The only "domino effect" that occured was my increased faith in the Lord, my Wife's increased faith in the Lord and my Childrens increased faith in the Lord.....among many many other priceless life lessons.

You are laboring under a woefully incorrect and cynical notion of the true purpose of tithing.   Because we paid our tithing on my 50.00 a week paycheck (thats right) the Lord blessed our family in ways that perhaps you cannot understand.  But, I am now 64 yrs old....11 months away from a great retirement.....and in my heart of hearts...I know without doubt, hestitation or reservation that it is the DIRECT result of paying tithing "when we couldn't afford it"!

 

Me too! I have a strong testimony of tithing, would not be where I am without it!  Add we need to think about other avenues that we receive with the church, like talking to members of the ward to find where there are jobs available at cetera.

Link to comment
10 hours ago, Tacenda said:

DI is too expensive.

Members who need it, with the bishop's permission can get what is needed for free.

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...