Deznat (deseret nation) = White nationalism? - Part 4

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, longview said:

So you believe that the entire GOP are terrorists?  Talk about painting with a broad brush!  You have gone over the edge.

Of course not. Just about half of them are tolerant of terrorism as long as it is terrorism for things they want to happen.

As to going over the edge insanity is party and parcel of what we are enduring. Claiming that coup attempts are not coup attempts is what gets more coup attempts. This is the process of normalization. This is how Turkey for instance got used to coups. Same with Pakistan. It is just something that happens. Can’t get upset about it or want to take steps to make sure it never happens again. That might offend the people who like to coup and can’t have that.

[gopher]

13 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Only five fatalities and about a hundred injured? Pretty weak tour. I prefer to go on more exciting tours with a real body count.

Especially since the fatalities were caused by 1) stroke, 2) heart attack, 3) amphetamine overdose 4) natural causes but possibly aggravated by riot, 5) unarmed woman shot by unidentified Capitol PO

Except for Babbitt, the fatalities weren't very dramatic or exciting.

It was a stupid riot by a bunch of dumb mostly white people.  We are pretty tolerant of protests here in the DC area as long as they don't interfere with traffic, but this didn't earn much sympathy.  On a positive note, many finally have begun condemning violent and destructive protests.

[The Nehor]

14 minutes ago, gopher said:

Especially since the fatalities were caused by 1) stroke, 2) heart attack, 3) amphetamine overdose 4) natural causes but possibly aggravated by riot, 5) unarmed woman shot by unidentified Capitol PO

Except for Babbitt, the fatalities weren't very dramatic or exciting.

It was a stupid riot by a bunch of dumb mostly white people.  We are pretty tolerant of protests here in the DC area as long as they don't interfere with traffic, but this didn't earn much sympathy.  On a positive note, many finally have begun condemning violent and destructive protests.

 

Natural causes for the win.

Of course even if you buy that about most of the deaths being completely unrelated the 140 injured officers from the Capitol and Metropolitan police including over a dozen that still cannot go back to work due to their injuries the idea that the thing was non-violent falls apart. Head injuries, cracked ribs, smashed spinal disks, lacerations, etc. The whole idea that this was non-violent is ludicrous on its face and requires either deliberate ignorance and a calculated refusal to watch the horrifying videos showing what happened or it is a calculated and deliberate lie.

[gopher]

7 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Natural causes for the win.

Of course even if you buy that about most of the deaths being completely unrelated the 140 injured officers from the Capitol and Metropolitan police including over a dozen that still cannot go back to work due to their injuries the idea that the thing was non-violent falls apart. Head injuries, cracked ribs, smashed spinal disks, lacerations, etc. The whole idea that this was non-violent is ludicrous on its face and requires either deliberate ignorance and a calculated refusal to watch the horrifying videos showing what happened or it is a calculated and deliberate lie.

I was just confirming what you stated about the fatalities not being very exciting.  Of course the riot was violent.

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, carbon dioxide said:

It may not be a good thing, but in world today, it might be a necessary thing.  People get fired from their jobs for doing or saying things will not on the job.  Some people value their privacy as well.  They may have something to say regarding a topic but don't want to be bothered by friends and neighbors about an issue while outside the setting they originally gave their view. 

There can definitely be a cost to speaking out. Depending on the circumstances it may at times be better to keep silent rather than speak under cover of anonymity. I don’t know that it was by deliberate design, but I certainly became more vocal politically after I retired. 

Edited June 19, 2021 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

50 minutes ago, gopher said:

On a positive note, many finally have begun condemning violent and destructive protests.

I hope that’s true nationwide and across political ideologies. 

[Bob Crockett]

20 hours ago, longview said:

I saw the video.  It looked like a casual cold-blooded killing.  There was no pressure on the shooter.  The crowd was very light and a mixed bag of different backgrounds.

What a nut job. 

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I hope that’s true nationwide and across political ideologies. 

Don't forget including the police.

https://www.radcliffe.harvard.edu/news-and-ideas/black-lives-matter-protesters-were-overwhelmingly-peaceful-our-research-finds

[The Nehor]

On 6/18/2021 at 2:32 PM, longview said:

I saw the video.  It looked like a casual cold-blooded killing.  There was no pressure on the shooter.  The crowd was very light and a mixed bag of different backgrounds.

You are correct that there was no pressure on the shooter. There was pressure on the members of Congress who were arming themselves and getting ready to repel an attack from people whose avowed goal was to harm or kill them. She was shot because, the insurrectionists having already broken the windows and attacking the door, she was going to be the first to enter the chamber.

Shooting her caused them to cease their attempts to enter the chamber on their mission to kill members of Congress or at least to compel Congress under threat of violence to reverse an election. 

 

[longview]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Shooting her caused them to cease their attempts to enter the chamber on their mission to kill members of Congress or at least to compel Congress under threat of violence to reverse an election. 

You live in a fantasy land.  Nobody but the Capitol Police were armed.  The Congress never were in danger (they were busy orchestrating the drama).

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2021/02/fascist-democrats-fake-insurrection-david-horowitz/

"The January 6 mob scene, according to investigators, was planned by “Oath Keepers” – a fringe pro-Trump group - two months before Trump gave the speech for which he was impeached under the bogus charge that he had “incited an insurrection.” In fact, he had offered to deploy 10,000 National Guardsmen to defend the Capitol for the January 6 certification. Some insurrectionist!

"Trump’s infamous speech was perfectly normal, law-abiding and democratic. It was given a mile from the Capitol and was an appeal to his supporters to stiffen the spines of Republican members of Congress so they would challenge the election result. This was something Democrats and their impeachment leader – the devious Jamie Raskin - had done at the certification hearings in 2017 after Trump’s election (and also in 2001 and 2005 after both Bush elections). Democrats’ hypocrisy apparently knows no limits and no restraints and evidently has no decency filter. If Trump’s supporters failed to stiffen the spines of “weak Republicans” as Trump urged them to do in so many words at the Ellipse, they needed to go back home and primary them in the 2022 elections. Totally respectful of the democratic process.

"The reality is that given the three months of violent assaults by Black Lives Matter and Antifa criminals on 220 American cities last summer, January 6 was an unexceptional event. Where was the respect for government courthouses, national monuments, police stations and public order all summer? For three months and more, those violent insurrectionary riots were supported by Vice President Kamala Harris and the Democrat Party leadership, and even funded by them."

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2021/02/progressives-cry-insurrection-and-treason-theyre-don-feder/

"All the left has to do is level an accusation, use the magic words “January 6” or “insurrection” and any one of us can find ourselves accused of treason.

"Of course, when urban centers went up in flames throughout the spring and summer (property damage estimated between $1 billion and $2 billion), when cops were murdered, when rioters tried to storm federal buildings and when so-called autonomous zones were being set up, there was not a word of protest from the guardians of constitutional government.

"Then candidate Biden insisted Antifa wasn’t really an organization but just an idea. He’s yet to say anything at all about Black Lives Matter, just nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, in perhaps the ultimate irony.  And now he’s singing its refrain, when he bloviates about America’s “deep racial inequalities.”

"Remember Antifa’s chant: “No borders. No wall. No USA at all.” What do you suppose that was about? A call for reform?"

[gopher]

5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I hope that’s true nationwide and across political ideologies. 

Absolutely!  Members of the church should condemn all forms of violence and destruction of non-printing-press private property.

[The Nehor]

Just now, longview said:

You live in a fantasy land.  Nobody but the Capitol Police were armed.  The Congress never were in danger (they were busy orchestrating the drama).

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2021/02/fascist-democrats-fake-insurrection-david-horowitz/

"The January 6 mob scene, according to investigators, was planned by “Oath Keepers” – a fringe pro-Trump group - two months before Trump gave the speech for which he was impeached under the bogus charge that he had “incited an insurrection.” In fact, he had offered to deploy 10,000 National Guardsmen to defend the Capitol for the January 6 certification. Some insurrectionist!

"Trump’s infamous speech was perfectly normal, law-abiding and democratic. It was given a mile from the Capitol and was an appeal to his supporters to stiffen the spines of Republican members of Congress so they would challenge the election result. This was something Democrats and their impeachment leader – the devious Jamie Raskin - had done at the certification hearings in 2017 after Trump’s election (and also in 2001 and 2005 after both Bush elections). Democrats’ hypocrisy apparently knows no limits and no restraints and evidently has no decency filter. If Trump’s supporters failed to stiffen the spines of “weak Republicans” as Trump urged them to do in so many words at the Ellipse, they needed to go back home and primary them in the 2022 elections. Totally respectful of the democratic process.

"The reality is that given the three months of violent assaults by Black Lives Matter and Antifa criminals on 220 American cities last summer, January 6 was an unexceptional event. Where was the respect for government courthouses, national monuments, police stations and public order all summer? For three months and more, those violent insurrectionary riots were supported by Vice President Kamala Harris and the Democrat Party leadership, and even funded by them."

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2021/02/progressives-cry-insurrection-and-treason-theyre-don-feder/

"All the left has to do is level an accusation, use the magic words “January 6” or “insurrection” and any one of us can find ourselves accused of treason.

"Of course, when urban centers went up in flames throughout the spring and summer (property damage estimated between $1 billion and $2 billion), when cops were murdered, when rioters tried to storm federal buildings and when so-called autonomous zones were being set up, there was not a word of protest from the guardians of constitutional government.

"Then candidate Biden insisted Antifa wasn’t really an organization but just an idea. He’s yet to say anything at all about Black Lives Matter, just nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, in perhaps the ultimate irony.  And now he’s singing its refrain, when he bloviates about America’s “deep racial inequalities.”

"Remember Antifa’s chant: “No borders. No wall. No USA at all.” What do you suppose that was about? A call for reform?"

Not armed you say?

https://www.witf.org/2021/03/19/yes-capitol-insurrectionists-were-armed-here-are-the-weapons-prosecutors-say-they-used/

Someone literally brought pipe bombs and planted them to either divert the police or murder people or both.

Your “news” source there is spouting absolute unhinged drivel. Perfectly democratic? Months in advance of the attack on the Capitol the darker corners of the internet were full of MAGA folks fantasizing about taking over the government, murder, and compelling Congress to overturn the election. They expected the President to deputize them and set them loose on his enemies and the talk of rape and graphic murder was not subtle. Everyone who was paying attention knew this day would likely explode. Everyone involved with BLM and counter protests against the Proud Boys and their ilk was telling everyone to stay away because this was going to be violent. The speech set them off to go do Trump’s bidding. Virtually all those arrested claim they were there because Trump told them to be there. Either the entire movement is made up of complete idiots who hear the exact opposite of what is being said or Trump is a terrible communicator who should never be allowed a platform again. Considering all this being deliberately stupid after the fact and pretending this was not the plan is an insult to your own intelligence and the intelligence of anyone who paid attention.

That also wasn’t an Antifa chant. It was a bunch of anarchists in Denver. That group has been badly labeled by some media as Antifa or Leftists but take a look at the big banner in most of the photos. “Death to Fascism and the Liberalism that enables it”. The second part is hardly a Leftist or Antifa message. Then again as I have said repeatedly Antifa doesn’t really exist as an organization and anyone can claim to be a part of it. Still, I am guessing nuance and understanding that there are not just ‘two sides’ to everything is beyond most of the media you consume.

[The Nehor]

5 minutes ago, gopher said:

Absolutely!  Members of the church should condemn all forms of violence and destruction of non-printing-press private property.

*tips hat*

[Scott Lloyd]

5 hours ago, gopher said:

Absolutely!  Members of the church should condemn all forms of violence and destruction of non-printing-press private property.

Welcome to my ignore list. 

[Peacefully]

13 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

I understand that politics has its place of importance but I have seen too many church members place it to levels that it seems to be the most important. They value their political views more than friendships and perhaps church membership.  The Democrat and Republican parties are political parties of Babylon. Neither party cares about Zion and oppose many of the principles of Zion in their own way. When we understand this, perhaps we might not give as much emphasis to it.  Neither party is the party of God or the devil  Both parties will cease to exist at some point in the future.  Most of the issues the parties war about today will not be that important 10 or 20 years from now.  Too many members have things out of balance.  Politics is ok but when it starts affected family relationship, church friendships, saying that somebody is not a good church member because their political views are different,  it is time to walk away from politics for a while. If Jesus was an American citizen today,  I see nothing to persuade me that he would be a Democrat or a Republican. 

I always suspected Jesus was an Independent:) As far as Republican and Democrat, neither side is all right or all wrong. It is sad that some members of the church take political positions to the extreme. I’m so glad our leaders have said that we should vote our conscience. Of course, this is just in regards to American politics. There is a whole world out there that isn’t really concerned with our political drama. 

[sunstoned]

7 hours ago, longview said:

You live in a fantasy land.  Nobody but the Capitol Police were armed.  The Congress never were in danger (they were busy orchestrating the drama).

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2021/02/fascist-democrats-fake-insurrection-david-horowitz/

"The January 6 mob scene, according to investigators, was planned by “Oath Keepers” – a fringe pro-Trump group - two months before Trump gave the speech for which he was impeached under the bogus charge that he had “incited an insurrection.” In fact, he had offered to deploy 10,000 National Guardsmen to defend the Capitol for the January 6 certification. Some insurrectionist!

"Trump’s infamous speech was perfectly normal, law-abiding and democratic. It was given a mile from the Capitol and was an appeal to his supporters to stiffen the spines of Republican members of Congress so they would challenge the election result. This was something Democrats and their impeachment leader – the devious Jamie Raskin - had done at the certification hearings in 2017 after Trump’s election (and also in 2001 and 2005 after both Bush elections). Democrats’ hypocrisy apparently knows no limits and no restraints and evidently has no decency filter. If Trump’s supporters failed to stiffen the spines of “weak Republicans” as Trump urged them to do in so many words at the Ellipse, they needed to go back home and primary them in the 2022 elections. Totally respectful of the democratic process.

"The reality is that given the three months of violent assaults by Black Lives Matter and Antifa criminals on 220 American cities last summer, January 6 was an unexceptional event. Where was the respect for government courthouses, national monuments, police stations and public order all summer? For three months and more, those violent insurrectionary riots were supported by Vice President Kamala Harris and the Democrat Party leadership, and even funded by them."

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2021/02/progressives-cry-insurrection-and-treason-theyre-don-feder/

"All the left has to do is level an accusation, use the magic words “January 6” or “insurrection” and any one of us can find ourselves accused of treason.

"Of course, when urban centers went up in flames throughout the spring and summer (property damage estimated between $1 billion and $2 billion), when cops were murdered, when rioters tried to storm federal buildings and when so-called autonomous zones were being set up, there was not a word of protest from the guardians of constitutional government.

"Then candidate Biden insisted Antifa wasn’t really an organization but just an idea. He’s yet to say anything at all about Black Lives Matter, just nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize, in perhaps the ultimate irony.  And now he’s singing its refrain, when he bloviates about America’s “deep racial inequalities.”

"Remember Antifa’s chant: “No borders. No wall. No USA at all.” What do you suppose that was about? A call for reform?"

Where do you buy your acid?

Edited June 20, 2021 by sunstoned

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Peacefully said:

I always suspected Jesus was an Independent:) As far as Republican and Democrat, neither side is all right or all wrong. It is sad that some members of the church take political positions to the extreme. I’m so glad our leaders have said that we should vote our conscience. Of course, this is just in regards to American politics. There is a whole world out there that isn’t really concerned with our political drama. 

Actually a lot of the world is very nervous about it.

[gopher]

10 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Welcome to my ignore list. 

Huh?  I was agreeing with you.  Is it STILL too early to joke about the printing press?  I thought enough time has passed that maybe I get a slight chuckle out of both apologists and critics by poking fun at it.  I realize you won't see this, but I apologize if I offended you.

[Peacefully]

11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Actually a lot of the world is very nervous about it.

I get the nervousness and concern but what I am trying to say is our day to day political drama may seem a bit overblown to them and Americans do tend to think that America is the center of the universe. 

Edited June 20, 2021 by Peacefully

[The Nehor]

22 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

I get the nervousness and concern but what I am trying to say is our day to day political drama may seem a bit overblown to them and Americans do tend to think that America is the center of the universe. 

True, though the comparisons of American political movements to Nazis were a bit of a surprise to me. Unlike in the US they don’t frivolously compare people they don’t like to Hitler and they have never needed a Godwin’s Law. They started making comparisons to Hitler.

It is also a bit of a blow. The US has been a (mostly) stabilizing world influence and there was a continuity such that there were unlikely to be massive foreign policy shifts with no real warning in advance and that agreements would remain in force. That confidence has been shaken. It remains to be seen if it will be restored and how much of it can be restored. France and Germany both started to step forward into global leadership roles and they may not want to back down now. So did China. To be fair Britain tried to as well but they have their own problems and no one took them very seriously.

There is a danger here. A collapse of US global hegemony would send out all kinds of ripples. Since shortly after the Second World War virtually every major diplomatic and military decision made by any nation had to seriously consider what the US reaction would be. If the US is erratic or untrustworthy that concern will evaporate and may lead to a big increase in regional arms races and all kinds of saber-rattling and brinksmanship. I am not convinced US hegemony is necessarily a good thing but I am concerned that the lack of it could turn out to be much worse or that some other nation will take up the role.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

7 hours ago, gopher said:

Huh?  I was agreeing with you.  Is it STILL too early to joke about the printing press?  I thought enough time has passed that maybe I get a slight chuckle out of both apologists and critics by poking fun at it.  I realize you won't see this, but I apologize if I offended you.

I have to admit that was really weird. An upvote in the morning and on the ignore list a couple hours later. Got some whiplash there. 

Edited June 20, 2021 by SeekingUnderstanding