nuclearfuels Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) From Church yesterday: We were presented w/ a scenario: A friend of yours shows you an inappropriate picture that you wouldn't feel comfortable sharing w/ your parents, siblings, etc. Heard this comment in response: If a friend showed me a picture like that, I'd ask myself: what did I do or how did I behave that suggested to this friend that I would want to see a picture like that? - A few years ago also in Church - different ward, a man honestly asked what he could do to get positive thoughts in his mind when one of his neighbors frequently used profanity, out loud while they were both outside. Instead of singing a hymn, listenign to music on headphones or something like that, this kind brother was reponded to with: Maybe you should think about what you could work on in yourself before judging your neighbor. To me, this is total nonsense. - This self-blaming for the actions of others, to me, seems to be very unhealthy. If someone offered me a cigarette, I'd say no, thanks. I would not ask myself what I did to make that person think I'd like a cigarette. If I was cut off in traffic, I wouldn't ask myself what I did to make the cut-off-er think that I'd like that If someone stole from me, I wouldn't ask myself what I did to make the thief think that I'd like that If a friend punched me in the face, I wouldn't ask myself what I did to make the friend think that I'd like that. Edited June 14, 2021 by nuclearfuels 4 Link to comment
Glenn101 Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 9 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said: From Church yesterday: We were presented w/ a scenario: A friend of yours shows you an inappropriate picture that you wouldn't feel comfortable sharing w/ your parents, siblings, etc. Heard this comment in response: If a friend showed me a picture like that, I'd ask myself: what did I do or how did I behave that suggested to this friend that I would want to see a picture like that? - This self-blaming for the actions of others, to me, seems to be very unhealthy. If someone offered me a cigarette, I'd say no, thanks. I would not ask myself what I did to make that person think I'd like a cigarette. If I was cut off in traffic, I wouldn't ask myself what I did to make the cut-off-er think that I'd liek that I do believe it is a good idea to do some self assessment in many cases though. I know I often unconsciously or inadvertently have done things that have sent the wrong signal to people. But for most cases I am on board with your point of view. None of my friends over the years would have offered me a cigarette or an inappropriate picture because I made sure that they knew where I stood on such issues. Link to comment
nuclearfuels Posted June 14, 2021 Author Share Posted June 14, 2021 43 minutes ago, Glenn101 said: I know I often unconsciously or inadvertently have done things that have sent the wrong signal to people I'm sure this is the case for all of us however I don't think the exception disproves the rule. I don't think when we're judged based on mistakes or weaknesses of ours as if those were our daily, average, typical level of behavior 1 Link to comment
Meadowchik Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) This assumes profanity and things which makes one uncomfortable are always bad. . Edited June 16, 2021 by Meadowchik Link to comment
katherine the great Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 2 hours ago, nuclearfuels said: This self-blaming for the actions of others, to me, seems to be very unhealthy. I agree. It sounds a bit ego-centric to me. 2 Link to comment
Popular Post pogi Posted June 14, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 14, 2021 3 hours ago, nuclearfuels said: From Church yesterday: We were presented w/ a scenario: A friend of yours shows you an inappropriate picture that you wouldn't feel comfortable sharing w/ your parents, siblings, etc. Heard this comment in response: If a friend showed me a picture like that, I'd ask myself: what did I do or how did I behave that suggested to this friend that I would want to see a picture like that? - A few years ago also in Church - different ward, a man honestly asked what he could do to get positive thoughts in his mind when one of his neighbors frequently used profanity, out loud while they were both outside. Instead of singing a hymn, listenign to music on headphones or something like that, this kind brother was reponded to with: Maybe you should think about what you could work on in yourself before judging your neighbor. To me, this is total nonsense. - This self-blaming for the actions of others, to me, seems to be very unhealthy. If someone offered me a cigarette, I'd say no, thanks. I would not ask myself what I did to make that person think I'd like a cigarette. If I was cut off in traffic, I wouldn't ask myself what I did to make the cut-off-er think that I'd like that If someone stole from me, I wouldn't ask myself what I did to make the thief think that I'd like that If a friend punched me in the face, I wouldn't ask myself what I did to make the friend think that I'd like that. Some would call that "victim blaming". Quote If a friend showed me a picture like that, I'd ask myself: what did I do or how did I behave that suggested to this friend that I would want to see a picture like that? Replace the phrase "showed me a picture like that" with "raped me like that", and you will start to see how unhealthy this line of thinking is. 6 Link to comment
Fether Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, nuclearfuels said: From Church yesterday: We were presented w/ a scenario: A friend of yours shows you an inappropriate picture that you wouldn't feel comfortable sharing w/ your parents, siblings, etc. Heard this comment in response: If a friend showed me a picture like that, I'd ask myself: what did I do or how did I behave that suggested to this friend that I would want to see a picture like that? - A few years ago also in Church - different ward, a man honestly asked what he could do to get positive thoughts in his mind when one of his neighbors frequently used profanity, out loud while they were both outside. Instead of singing a hymn, listenign to music on headphones or something like that, this kind brother was reponded to with: Maybe you should think about what you could work on in yourself before judging your neighbor. To me, this is total nonsense. - This self-blaming for the actions of others, to me, seems to be very unhealthy. If someone offered me a cigarette, I'd say no, thanks. I would not ask myself what I did to make that person think I'd like a cigarette. If I was cut off in traffic, I wouldn't ask myself what I did to make the cut-off-er think that I'd like that If someone stole from me, I wouldn't ask myself what I did to make the thief think that I'd like that If a friend punched me in the face, I wouldn't ask myself what I did to make the friend think that I'd like that. There is a very popular book from an ex-navy seal called “Extreme Ownership”. Perhaps he was trying to share a principle from it? The basic idea of the book is to take ownership of every problem in your life. It isn’t a matter of blaming yourself, but rather taking the blame off of everything and taking control of your life by realizing that there are things you could have done and can do to avoid all your problems. It isn’t saying that you should always a perfect foreknowledge of the future and feel shamed or guilty whenever something bad happens to you, instead, it is just a mindset to have that will help you take control of your life and not to play the victim, even when it really feels like you are. If, while applying the principles, you find yourself blaming yourself and feeling bad, you aren’t doing it right. Additionally, this isn’t suggesting a nee way to approach the law. You can take ownership of your problem and still have the person that harmed you punished by the law. It is a little nuanced and can be hard to both teach and grasp, and for someone who already struggles with self image or feels the weight and pressure of the world, it can be particularly hard to grasp. It’s something that probably shouldn’t be shared in a 10 second comment. This person that shared this at church may have been referencing concepts from that book, but not have had time to fully explain it. Edited June 14, 2021 by Fether 1 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 46 minutes ago, Fether said: The basic idea of the book is to take ownership of every problem in your life. It isn’t a matter of blaming yourself, but rather taking the blame off of everything and taking control of your life by realizing that there are things you could have done and can do to avoid all your problems. LOL …..and no. 3 Link to comment
Fether Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) nevermind Edited June 14, 2021 by Fether Link to comment
The Nehor Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Just now, Fether said: Name me one Problems that I cannot avoid? I have ADHD. It has a strong genetic component and is usually activated in early childhood. What steps could I have taken to avoid this problem? 3 Link to comment
Fether Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 13 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Problems that I cannot avoid? I have ADHD. It has a strong genetic component and is usually activated in early childhood. What steps could I have taken to avoid this problem? In this case, the principles in the book would just talk about not using the ADHD as the cause for the problems in your life. It would also have you not having a “woe is me” approach to the ADHD. so “avoiding your problems” was a poor use of words to describe the principle Link to comment
Calm Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, Fether said: about not using the ADHD as the cause for the problems in your life. And if it is? Isn’t being unrealistic about the negatives in one’s life going to make it harder to resolve/address them? 1 Link to comment
Popular Post The Nehor Posted June 14, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, Fether said: In this case, the principles in the book would just talk about not using the ADHD as the cause for the problems in your life. It would also have you not having a “woe is me” approach to the ADHD. so “avoiding your problems” was a poor use of words to describe the principle What if it is indisputably and unequivocally the cause of the problem? Do I lie to myself and claim it is not? I admit I am being confrontational because I despise this kind of prosperity gospel thinking saying that if you follow God your problems will go away forever and you will lead a rich and fulfilling life filled mostly with joys and happy memories. The problem with that approach is that you run up against the life of Jesus very quickly. You can't argue that he wasn't "smart enough" to forsee potential problems so was he just a masochist? Even if you want to argue Jesus was an exception you come up against prophets. Nephi comes across as almost neurotic when he wrote the psalm of Nephi. Jacob seemed depressed and called his people lonesome and solemn. Poor Mormon. If he had just bucked up and taken charge of his life the genocide of his people could have been averted. Do I need to go on? 6 Link to comment
Amulek Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 5 hours ago, nuclearfuels said: From Church yesterday: We were presented w/ a scenario: A friend of yours shows you an inappropriate picture that you wouldn't feel comfortable sharing w/ your parents, siblings, etc. Heard this comment in response: If a friend showed me a picture like that, I'd ask myself: what did I do or how did I behave that suggested to this friend that I would want to see a picture like that? [...] - This self-blaming for the actions of others, to me, seems to be very unhealthy. I agree that we shouldn't place ultimate blame on ourselves for the actions of others. However, I assume this is from the YM/YW lesson on avoiding pornography and that the comment was made by a youth (rather than a leader). If that is the case, then I don't really see what was said as being terribly objectionable. When I was a teenager, all of my close friends were aware of my standards. If one of them were to have asked me to blatantly violate those standards I very well might have asked myself, 'What on earth might make them think I would be down with that? Did I do or say something (anything?) that might make them think I would be interested in that, even though they ought to know full well that I'm not?' If your friends are rational then I don't see the harm in asking yourself if you said or did something that might have caused them to believe that you would be open to whatever it was they were suggesting. 3 Link to comment
Fether Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 25 minutes ago, Calm said: And if it is? Isn’t being unrealistic about the negatives in one’s life going to make it harder to resolve/address them? 20 minutes ago, The Nehor said: What if it is indisputably and unequivocally the cause of the problem? Do I lie to myself and claim it is not? He addresses this specifically and admittedly I wont be able to give the concept justice. I’m not explaining it well and because of that, you aren’t understanding it. It is a business focused book, but bleeds over into normal life. In cases of business and the military, if problems arise, do you want the leader to be pointing fingers at others or do you want a leader that says “I could have done X and Y to avoid this and I’ll make sure it doesn’t happen again.” Its about problem solving and progression. What people do to you is done, what are you going to do now to recover and make sure it doesn’t happen again. A practical example: if someone breaks into my house and steals my car, the natural reaction is to be angry and blame him for my anger, financial pain, inconvenience in life, etc. It is very reactive and there is no growth in that. but a more proactive approach would be to admit that had you paid for a security system, or maybe you out too much value on material things, or maybe admit that had you a better control over your emotions, you wouldn’t be so distraught. There is more growth and recovery found in this approach. Again, this isn’t about blame, this isn’t about feeling shame for things that happen to you. And the book makes no claim that problems won’t happen anymore should you start doing this, nor is it saying that you should feel bad for yourself if bad things happen, or that you are inferior to those who don’t experience similar pains. It is about regaining power over your life and claiming all things in your life, both positive and negative. The example above of being shown porn is an example of this (though perhaps poorly explained) But really, I recommend reading it. It is genuinely one of the greatest “self help” / business books written in the last 10 years. https://www.audible.com/pd/Extreme-Ownership-Audiobook/B015TVHUA2 1 Link to comment
AtlanticMike Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, Fether said: What people do to you is done, what are you going to do now to recover and make sure it doesn’t happen again. I haven't read the book your talking about but it sounds to me like what it probably is teaching is to make sure you're always progressing in life, don't let yourself sit still for to long, mentally or physically. For some, the physical aspect might be doing two pushups and for others it could be doing 200, it's not the amount you do, it's that you started and you don't quit, never quit, if you're the person doing the two pushups a day and can only do one in the morning and one at night, then do that, just don't quit. Doing those two pushups bleeds over into the mental aspect of the philosophy you're talking about. Again, it's not the amount of push ups, it's that you completed the task and then realizing you were victorious so you can move on to the next task, claiming victory again and again. Basically, you're talking about learning and even training yourself how to live a positive life no matter what, no matter your limitations, embracing everything as a positive even though most see it as a negative. Here's a seal video that probably explains what your talking about. Am I understanding you correctly? Link to comment
Fether Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 52 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said: I haven't read the book your talking about but it sounds to me like what it probably is teaching is to make sure you're always progressing in life, don't let yourself sit still for to long, mentally or physically. For some, the physical aspect might be doing two pushups and for others it could be doing 200, it's not the amount you do, it's that you started and you don't quit, never quit, if you're the person doing the two pushups a day and can only do one in the morning and one at night, then do that, just don't quit. Doing those two pushups bleeds over into the mental aspect of the philosophy you're talking about. Again, it's not the amount of push ups, it's that you completed the task and then realizing you were victorious so you can move on to the next task, claiming victory again and again. Basically, you're talking about learning and even training yourself how to live a positive life no matter what, no matter your limitations, embracing everything as a positive even though most see it as a negative. Here's a seal video that probably explains what your talking about. Am I understanding you correctly? A little over simplification but yes. The core of it is not being a victim because the victim mentally is self sabotaging Link to comment
Calm Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Fether said: you want a leader that says “I could have done X and Y to avoid this and I’ll make sure it doesn’t happen again.” The I will make sure it won’t happen again shifts the responsibility from where it actually sits—on the team who make something happen or not happen and environmental influences that may or may not allow for plans to be completed—and creates an improper power dynamic imo. Sets the leader up for failure to speak in such absolutes. 1 hour ago, Fether said: a more proactive approach would be to admit that had you paid for a security system, or maybe you out too much value on material things, or maybe admit that had you a better control over your emotions, you wouldn’t be so distraught But there is also the side of holding the thief morally responsible for being a thief. You are not responsible for his choices. Edited June 14, 2021 by Calm 1 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Fether said: He addresses this specifically and admittedly I wont be able to give the concept justice. I’m not explaining it well and because of that, you aren’t understanding it. It is a business focused book, but bleeds over into normal life. In cases of business and the military, if problems arise, do you want the leader to be pointing fingers at others or do you want a leader that says “I could have done X and Y to avoid this and I’ll make sure it doesn’t happen again.” Its about problem solving and progression. What people do to you is done, what are you going to do now to recover and make sure it doesn’t happen again. A practical example: if someone breaks into my house and steals my car, the natural reaction is to be angry and blame him for my anger, financial pain, inconvenience in life, etc. It is very reactive and there is no growth in that. but a more proactive approach would be to admit that had you paid for a security system, or maybe you out too much value on material things, or maybe admit that had you a better control over your emotions, you wouldn’t be so distraught. There is more growth and recovery found in this approach. Again, this isn’t about blame, this isn’t about feeling shame for things that happen to you. And the book makes no claim that problems won’t happen anymore should you start doing this, nor is it saying that you should feel bad for yourself if bad things happen, or that you are inferior to those who don’t experience similar pains. It is about regaining power over your life and claiming all things in your life, both positive and negative. The example above of being shown porn is an example of this (though perhaps poorly explained) But really, I recommend reading it. It is genuinely one of the greatest “self help” / business books written in the last 10 years. https://www.audible.com/pd/Extreme-Ownership-Audiobook/B015TVHUA2 So it is just a fancy way to tell people to learn from their experiences with some empowering slogans pasted on? I’ll pass thanks. I’ve known too many of the people who make such products to think they work. 1 Link to comment
Fether Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Calm said: The I will make sure it won’t happen again shifts the responsibility from where it actually sits—on the team who make something happen or not happen and environmental influences that may or may not allow for plans to be completed—and creates an improper power dynamic imo. Sets the leader up for failure to speak in such absolutes. But there is also the side of holding the thief morally responsible for being a thief. You are not responsible for his choices. 18 minutes ago, The Nehor said: So it is just a fancy way to tell people to learn from their experiences with some empowering slogans pasted on? I’ll pass thanks. I’ve known too many of the people who make such products to think they work. I’m glad you guys have more wisdom and life experience than a man who served multiple tours, one as a seal team leader in the battle of Ramadi, runs a highly sought after and world known consulting business, runs an extremely successful podcasts With over 1mil subscribers just in YT, is constantly asked to be and making appearances as guest on the greatest podcasts, political talk shows and news networks, is Jiu Jitsu black belt, trainer, and gym owner, and has 2 (that I know of) NewYork Times Best selling books (one of which is the one you are discounting) Edited June 14, 2021 by Fether Link to comment
Calm Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Fether said: I’m glad you guys have more wisdom and life experience than a man who served multiple tours, one as a seal team leader in the battle of Ramadi, runs a highly sought after and world known consulting business, runs an extremely successful podcasts With over 1mil subscribers just in YT, is constantly asked to be and making appearances as guest on the greatest podcasts, political talk shows and news networks, and is Jiu Jitsu black belt, trainer, and gym owner. Well, since the issue is in the end failure and success, I don’t believe one needs to be an expert in anything but life to be able to have an opinion on what is helpful. And often it is the successful (in terms of getting what they want) people who are blind to actual costs because they don’t recognize the costs their choices put on others, the costs they don’t have to pay themselves. My dad was very successful in all areas of his life (military, business, church, community, family) and used to tell everyone it was about commitment, if you really wanted something, you could get it...after all it worked for him. He didn’t realize that he was often successful in getting what he wanted accomplished by interfering with what others wanted because he expected and got them to drop what they were doing to support him. There were good reasons to do so in many cases and it wasn’t unkindness or lack of caring that led to his being unaware of others’ needs, but the lack of realistic recognition of causes meant that there were greater costs to his successes for others than there needed to be. I would consider the expert’s input more useful if he had also had experience with neurochemical imbalances medication was not able to control. Edited June 14, 2021 by Calm 1 Link to comment
bsjkki Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, The Nehor said: What if it is indisputably and unequivocally the cause of the problem? Do I lie to myself and claim it is not? I admit I am being confrontational because I despise this kind of prosperity gospel thinking saying that if you follow God your problems will go away forever and you will lead a rich and fulfilling life filled mostly with joys and happy memories. The problem with that approach is that you run up against the life of Jesus very quickly. You can't argue that he wasn't "smart enough" to forsee potential problems so was he just a masochist? Even if you want to argue Jesus was an exception you come up against prophets. Nephi comes across as almost neurotic when he wrote the psalm of Nephi. Jacob seemed depressed and called his people lonesome and solemn. Poor Mormon. If he had just bucked up and taken charge of his life the genocide of his people could have been averted. Do I need to go on? I really don't like this thinking either or the 'law of attraction.' Now, I do understand the philosophy of 'don't let the worst thing that ever happened to you' destroy your life. Bad things happen and we need to process those things and get the help we need or work them out so they don't destroy the future. But, this too is very difficult, depending on the circumstances. Who am I to judge someone who is paralyzed by past trauma's I've never experienced? Edited June 15, 2021 by bsjkki 1 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 8 minutes ago, Fether said: I’m glad you guys have more wisdom and life experience than a man who served multiple tours, one as a seal team leader in the battle of Ramadi, runs a highly sought after and world known consulting business, runs an extremely successful podcasts, is constantly asked to be and making appearances as guest on the greatest podcasts, political talk shows and news networks, and is JiuvJitsu black belt, trainer, and gym owner. Odd since for years the SEALs have been urging their former members not to commercialize their former role as a selling point or to publicize about it. Hmmmmm........ All kinds of idiots run gyms and show up on political talk shows. They put people from Congress on for crying out loud and they get their job the same way prom queens do. Those who can, do. Those who can't, sell guides. Anyone who knew the secret to success would hold it close and only share it with those they love. If someone claims to want to share the secret of success to the world be very wary. Never buy investments that have to advertise. If someone is selling you a guide to success in a field make sure they actually make money in the field themselves and they better make most of their money doing that rather than make it hocking verbiage to rubes or you know right away what they are really good at. Never trust anyone who is more interested in success than what they want to be successful at. For funsies have this. Take it as anecdotal drivel and it doesn't prove anything but it sounds similar to a gripe from a former SEAL I spoke with once about the weird idolization some have for the job: Quote Bad news. At DEVGRU (Team 6 to the uninformed) they have a Grave Stone / Rock of Shame. You do something atrocious or sellout…your name is on it. You are henceforth banned from coming to the command ever again including reunions. I know many of the guys who do the circuit (I will allow them to remain unnamed) and they disgust me. It has gotten to the point where I am sick of hearing “Seals.” It used to be a badge of honor (even if you’re quiet about it, it comes up…job interviews especially) but its gotten to a point where I feel it is borderline shameful. Just a few guys ruining it all for the majority. Look, the only one I worked with (he was in Training Dept while I was platooned up) was Jocko Willink. He is famous for his stint at Team 3 as Commander of Bruiser—supposedly the most decorated of Iraq…blah, blah, blah. I knew him as an enlisted trainer at Team 1 when I was stationed there. The guy was hardcore then just as he is now (even by Seal standards). So, I'll give him that. He really truly is that hardcore. How a woman loves with that is beyond my level of expertise. But, my issue is some of the absurdity pushed like, “How a SEAL Thinks” “Typical Personality of a SEAL” “Epic Speech About Discipline from a Combat Proven SEAL” “I Can Do Anything But Be in a Room With Kryptonite!” Makes me want to punch my monitor. I do specialized work in Qatar (IT/Intelligence) and most of my comrades in the company where I work (but not on my project) are former DELTA guys. We bust each other’s balls all the time: me on them about Army and them on me about Navy. It’s usually a pretty good quid pro quo but the final dagger is ‘Jocko’. I have no response when they pull out the Jocko card. I don't want to completely slam the guy, he is a brother in arms but he does perpetuate a lot of the nonsense today which so many Seals hate. We just do our jobs, high five, drink some beers, and hopefully survive it all. It's not a normal job and only abnormal people actually do this - myself included. I'll be direct, we’re not that special. Yeah, training sucks. Yeah, lives are on the line. But it’s something like (guessing) how movie stars exist. From our normal person point of view, we only see clips of champagne and caviar (cue music from Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous) but in the end, its a day to day job. You don’t feel special because you are surrounded by tons of people who have done exactly what you have done. No big deal, really. Don’t look up to a Seal because they are a Seal. Some are great guys—most are great guys—but there are a fair amount of big headed douches. Ask questions…sure. Buy a beer for em…sure (we are veterans after all). But for God’s sake…do NOT revere or idolize any of us. We wipe our butts the same as anyone else. Some can fight…most cannot not. Some can pick up women…most cannot. Some are smart…most are not (at least exceptionally high IQs). I am not bashing my Brothers in Arms. I love them. I was one for crying out loud. Not knocking anyone just being realistic. Being disciplined, calm and focused in warfare are traits which are incredibly commendable so I don’t want to completely knock over the Seal Jenga tower. But, and most would agree, I do not nor will ever accept idolization. These guys are ruining it for us silent warriors. I only write this because I am sick and tired of this constant deification of Seals—usually perpetuated by a small group of Seals. You want to be an elitist? Take care of your wives, girlfriends, kids and family. Love them, respect them, do the daily grind. Pay your taxes. Help an old lady in need across the street. Donate to the needy. Assist at your church. Read your Bible. Pray diligently. Whatever…that is who deserves the pat on the back. God bless friends. P.S. Lattrell is in the clear (and Kyle) because the Navy approached them about writing books. They didn’t seek it out. Big difference. Their names remain good in the Teams. So the SEALs put him on the unofficial shame list? Yikes. Link to comment
AtlanticMike Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 7 minutes ago, The Nehor said: . If someone claims to want to share the secret of success to the world be very wary Does that same logic apply to someone who says they have the "secret" to life after death, like a prophet? Let's say there's this church that claims they can help you live with God again, as long as you follow the "rules" should they be trusted? Link to comment
MustardSeed Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Balance in all things, I suppose. Its a question at times worth asking but certainly important to toss out if it doesn't fit. 3 Link to comment
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