Tools of the devil

[AtlanticMike]

1 hour ago, CA Steve said:

In many cases, within Mormonism, what is considered evil or sinning seems to be a function of our Mormon culture. If we go back a hundred years we can find prophetic warnings against card playing and ankle length skirts, ninetyish years ago a greater emphasis on following the WoW was started by President Grant, sixtyish years ago it was communism, birth control and mothers working, recently the term "Mormonism" has changed into a tool of Satan.

I don't know about in other countries, but here we are fortunate that most mainstream religions will change policies and adjust to cultural changes. That's a positive in my book. 40 years ago private christian schools wouldn't allow mormons to attend, now, just about all will. Much has changed in Mormonism in my lifetime, I think more positivity has come out of Mormonism than Christianity tell ya the truth. 

[Kenngo1969]

I'm not going to comment on your bishop's reaction, and I don't think, necessarily, that a glass of wine with dinner, a cup of coffee with breakfast, a cigar, a cigarette, or a blunt is a one way ticket straight to hell.  I will, observe, however, that the Lord does say this in the Word of Wisdom:

Quote

4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation[.]

If you think that "evil and design[ing]" men and women don't exist who are absolutely happy as clams to see that so many people are addicted to their products ($$$ Cha-ching! $$$), then I've got a bridge and some prime beachfront real estate I want to sell you ... cheap.  It's not the people who are addicted who are bad: It's the people who are laughing all the way to the bank because those people are addicted who will have a lot to answer for.

Edited June 12, 2021 by Kenngo1969

[AtlanticMike]

6 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

It's not the people who are addicted who are bad: It's the people who are laughing all the way to the bank because those people are addicted who will have a lot to answer for

I would say looking through the lense of Mormonism, this is only partially true, aren't we taught that we will be punished for our own sins, and not the transgressions of others.

[Stargazer]

3 hours ago, secondclasscitizen said:

Yep just like back in the day where I grew up drinking a coke or Pepsi would get you a trip to see the bishop. Now the bishop shows up to church with a monster lol. 

My favorite energy drink is "Monster Assault"!  Hard to find in the stores, some places. I have to special order it from Amazon where I am because nobody carries it.

I have a story about Monster.

Long ago, when one of my sons had an interview to get a job at a TV station in Medford, in southern Oregon, he wanted to borrow my car to drive there because it got good gas mileage. He wanted to drive down and be back in one day, and I told him no way in heck was he going to try a journey like that (6 hours one way from Olympia, Washington) all by himself. So I took the day off work, and we drove it together. He hadn't gotten a lot of sleep before the trip (due to his then job), and I ended up doing most of the driving. On the way back, around 9 pm when were just a few miles south of Portland, OR, he was dead asleep, and I was starting to have those about-to-wander off the road experiences. I knew there was no way to keep this up, so I pulled off at the next rest stop for something to buck me up. I had never drank an energy drink to that point, but figured that was what I needed, so I asked the clerk for a recommendation. He suggested Monster, the original Green one. So I got that (much later I tried a Red Bull and found it nasty stuff). Anyway, once I had that Monster in me I started feeling nicely awake. No jitters, and not at all wired. Just awake and alert. It lasted for the next two hours, and it only started to wear off by the time we reached Olympia, just in time. These things have their uses. But care must be taken. My old bishop once told me that his father nearly died because of his habit of drinking two to four Monsters per day.

Incidentally, my son did not get the job.

[AtlanticMike]

5 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

But care must be taken.

One of my friends only drinks monsters up till like 2 o'clock, no food or water, it's the weirdest thing. We were wade fishing one evening and out of nowhere he started freaking out, thought he was having a heart attack. He sits down on the edge of the water and I check his pulse and his heart rate is absolutely insane. So we jump in my truck to go to the hospital and he starts freaking out even worse, having a hard time breathing and all of a sudden I think, he's having a panic attack, and think we'll this is going to be fun. Get to the hospital and come to find out, he was overdosing on caffeine, I didn't even know that it was possible to do that. They hooked him up to an EKG an if I remember correctly I think they gave him a laxative. We joke about it now, but it was pretty serious. 

   Last year my daughter dared me to drink some red bull and I probably drank a 1/3 of one of the little cans thinking, this won't be that bad, boy was I wrong😂, my wife made me go outside and do yard work, wouldn't let me back in the house until it wore off. I'm sticking with water, I'm a wimp😁

[OGHoosier]

1 hour ago, AtlanticMike said:

I would say looking through the lense of Mormonism, this is only partially true, aren't we taught that we will be punished for our own sins, and not the transgressions of others.

We are taught that we will be punished for our own sins, yes, but Christ's teaching also embraces our responsibility to help others around us follow the path. One can imagine that promoting and enabling addiction does not sit well with the Lord. 

[Tacenda]

3 hours ago, california boy said:

The biggest tool of the devil is being judgmental of other peoples flaws or shortcomings.  I didn't say sin on purpose because many cultural things that may be flaws are not sins.  Listening to Elvis Presley is a great example of that.  The WoW is another perfect example.  Smoking is definitely a health problem.  But a sin?  Probably not.  Coffee/tea?  Hardly even a health issue.  In fact there can be some health benefits to drinking coffee and tea.  Alcohol?  Yes it can be a problem when not done responsibly.  But the vast majority of people do drink alcohol responsibly.  

"The leading global risks for mortality in the world are high blood pressure (responsible for 13% of deaths globally), tobacco use (9%), high blood glucose (6%), physical inactivity (6%), and overweight and obesity (5%)."  As a health code, the WoW falls pretty far short of the intended goal. The WoW only addresses one of those health risks directly.  

I remember going to my grandfathers during the summers.  He was an active member of the Church, yet he drank Sanka with his breakfast.  I thought for sure, he wasn't a good Mormon, never taking into account the rest of his life and how he treated others.  I grew up being told that even decaffinated coffee was a sin.  I remember some quote about are you going to let a cup of coffee keep you out of the Celestial Kingdom?  It was me committing the sin, not my grandfather.

I think suicide should be included in the statistics you shared. There sure is a lot of that among LDS. 

[Stargazer]

9 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

One of my friends only drinks monsters up till like 2 o'clock, no food or water, it's the weirdest thing. We were wade fishing one evening and out of nowhere he started freaking out, thought he was having a heart attack. He sits down on the edge of the water and I check his pulse and his heart rate is absolutely insane. So we jump in my truck to go to the hospital and he starts freaking out even worse, having a hard time breathing and all of a sudden I think, he's having a panic attack, and think we'll this is going to be fun. Get to the hospital and come to find out, he was overdosing on caffeine, I didn't even know that it was possible to do that. They hooked him up to an EKG an if I remember correctly I think they gave him a laxative. We joke about it now, but it was pretty serious. 

When I was in the Army as a field artillery forward observer, we were out at an OP position directing an infantry mortar platoon's fire. I had missed breakfast for some reason, and the mess hall had gotten confused about where we were, and our midday meal was lost in the woods somewhere. I was getting ravenous, and unlike some of the guys in my section, I had not brought any actual food/snacks (a mistake I never repeated, by the way). I was very hungry. Being a non-commissioned officer, I didn't want to seem like I was sponging off the guys I was supposed to be leading, so I didn't try begging for food. But I had brought a six-pack of Dr. Pepper, and I chugged down a couple of cans of that (had already had one can for "breakfast"). That was a huge mistake. I got a simultaneous sugar-rush and caffeine overdose (not a clinical overdose like your friend), and I was in a bad way. I was in a cold-sweat, trembling, light-headed and I had to lay down for a good half-hour before it passed. Fortunately, we were at a standstill, as the mortar platoon we were directing were having lunch (lucky guys!). Eventually, our mess hall jeep showed up and we got fed, but the food wasn't particularly warm by that point.

9 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

   Last year my daughter dared me to drink some red bull and I probably drank a 1/3 of one of the little cans thinking, this won't be that bad, boy was I wrong😂, my wife made me go outside and do yard work, wouldn't let me back in the house until it wore off. I'm sticking with water, I'm a wimp😁

Red Bull is horrifying. Its taste alone should be enough to warn someone not to touch the stuff.

Do you remember Jolt Cola? "All the sugar and twice the caffeine" ran the adverts.

[rodheadlee]

3 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I think suicide should be included in the statistics you shared. There sure is a lot of that among LDS. 

What is the rate  compared to outside the Church?

[AtlanticMike]

7 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Red Bull is horrifying. Its taste alone should be enough to warn someone not to touch the stuff

I remember smelling it first and thinking, all right, this is going to taste like cotton candy.  But somehow it ended up tasting like a jar of old urine.

10 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Do you remember Jolt Cola? "All the sugar and twice the caffeine" ran the adverts.

I don't remember jolt cola at all. 

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

My old bishop once told me that his father nearly died because of his habit of drinking two to four Monsters per day.

They send your blood pressure through the roof!   So anybody who has high BP really should avoid them.

When I am drivng long distances alone- I carry some "No-Doz" pills- why pills? So I can break off a chunk a little at a time without getting a rush all at once

[Tacenda]

16 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

What is the rate  compared to outside the Church?

Not sure how accurate.

https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/155/5/413/171404

[jkwilliams]

1 minute ago, mfbukowski said:

They send your blood pressure through the roof!   So anybody who has high BP really should avoid them.

When I am drivng long distances alone- I carry some "No-Doz" pills- why pills? So I can break off a chunk a little at a time without getting a rush all at once

The only time I've ever drunk a Red Bull was when I was driving alone from Utah to Ohio. Tasted terrible, but it kept me alert.

[rodheadlee]

8 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Not sure how accurate.

https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/155/5/413/171404

Thank you. It would appear the rate for active members is much lower then the rest of the categories.

[secondclasscitizen]

3 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

They now actually sell caffeinated soda like those in our temple cafeteria 

Imagine that.. money changers in the temple

[mfbukowski]

8 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said:

Imagine that.. money changers in the temple

Absurd analogy

[jkwilliams]

14 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Absurd analogy

Depends on the mark-up. 🤣

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, AtlanticMike said:

I remember smelling it first and thinking, all right, this is going to taste like cotton candy.  But somehow it ended up tasting like a jar of old urine.

Yep. It curdles my tastebuds.

1 hour ago, AtlanticMike said:

I don't remember jolt cola at all. 

I thought it was no longer being sold, but just checked and it is still available out there somewhere. It has a somewhat esoteric circle of clientele, being a favorite at times amongst computer programmers, hackers, gamers and so on. I'm a retired programmer, so it was something that was well-known in my set. 

Here: 

[jkwilliams]

2 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Yep. It curdles my tastebuds.

I thought it was no longer being sold, but just checked and it is still available out there somewhere. It has a somewhat esoteric circle of clientele, being a favorite at times amongst computer programmers, hackers, gamers and so on. I'm a retired programmer, so it was something that was well-known in my set. 

Here: 

I tried Jolt once way back in the 80s. It tasted awful. Not worth it.

I got addicted to caffeine on my mission. In my last area in the Amazon Basin, Coca-Cola was the only safe thing to drink (the water was orange). It was so hot there that we drank about 3 liters apiece every day. 

Edited June 12, 2021 by jkwilliams

[Stargazer]

46 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

Thank you. It would appear the rate for active members is much lower then the rest of the categories.

Mormonism Research Ministry makes a big deal out of it. Of course they don't say a word about the Bible Belt suicide rates, where Southern Baptists reign supreme.

I checked FAIR and their article on the subject needs some updating to present-day statistics.

[Stargazer]

3 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I tried Jolt once way back in the 80s. It tasted awful. Not worth it.

I didn't like it as much as Pepsi (the king of colas, btw), but didn't find it all that bad. DIdn't make a habit of using it, though.

3 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I got addicted to caffeine on my mission. In my last area in the Amazon Basin, Coca-Cola was the only safe thing to drink (the water was orange). It was so hot there that we drank about 3 liters apiece every day. 

I can imagine. Orange water, huh? Yikes!

I was in Germany in the early 70's, and practically nobody drank water out of the tap. That was only for cooking and cleaning. I don't know if that was because of immediate post-war difficulties in obtaining clean water or some other reason, but nobody seemed to trust their water utilities. When us American missionaries asked for a drink of water, meaning out of the tap, we got looks of horror. Bottled water was big business there. In the early 80s, after I got married to a German lady (in the US) and then the Army sent us to Germany, I happened to get stationed in the town my mother-in-law lived in. So I stayed with her for 2 months instead of living in the barracks until my family arrived. She was getting deliveries of bottled water and it was apparently still de rigeur to drink only bottled water. It seemed like there were a hundred different "vintages" of bottled water. 

[CV75]

1 hour ago, jkwilliams said:

I tried Jolt once way back in the 80s. It tasted awful. Not worth it.

I got addicted to caffeine on my mission. In my last area in the Amazon Basin, Coca-Cola was the only safe thing to drink (the water was orange). It was so hot there that we drank about 3 liters apiece every day. 

I hope it was sugar-free as sugary drinks are dehydrating (caffeinated drinks are also mildly diuretic). Your kidneys took quite a punishment.

[jkwilliams]

4 minutes ago, CV75 said:

I hope it was sugar-free as sugary drinks are dehydrating (caffeinated drinks are also mildly diuretic). Your kidneys took quite a punishment.

There was no such thing as sugar-free soda in Bolivia in the 80s. Better my kidneys taking punishment than my intestines, I figured. 

[Calm]

4 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

I would say looking through the lense of Mormonism, this is only partially true, aren't we taught that we will be punished for our own sins, and not the transgressions of others.

Isn’t it a greed a sin, especially if they are willing to harm others to profit?

But if you mean the addicted also share in responsibility, I would agree they do to the point they understood it was harmful for them when they begun to use the product and to the point they have any control over their biological and emotional response, which varies by individual and over time I a guessing.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

I checked FAIR and their article on the subject needs some updating to present-day statistics.

Please PM me on this because I am going to forget before I am in a space I can do something about it.