Teancum Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 15 minutes ago, Baba Lou said: With God as the person we trust for our knowledge of what is true and what isn't we have a totally foolproof way to know what is true and what isn't. People often disagree with each other but God has never disagreed with himself or our Lord or the Holy Ghost. So now you have at least been told how to know what is true and what isn't, regardless of whoever may disagree. Fool proof...??? 🤣 Link to comment
jkwilliams Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 26 minutes ago, Teancum said: My wife's belief is in the unraveling phase and I actually feel quite bad for her watching the pain it is causing her. And to be on record, I never pushed anything on her and totally supported her activity and belief. Her issues started with ore social issues but now she is drilling into the history. She is a bit in the angry stage right now. I’m really sorry she’s going through that. At least she has you, so she’s not alone. Thank heavens the angry stage passes. 1 Link to comment
Baba Lou Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 9 minutes ago, Teancum said: Fool proof...??? 🤣 Yes, no fool can override what God has said and only a fool would try. Link to comment
mfbukowski Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Teancum said: You have strong faith and belief but you do not know. You have has spiritual metaphysical experiences which you interpret to strengthen your faith and gives you personal conviction you are on the right track but you do not know Yes I do. I have epistemic certainty. "Certainty (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)" https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/certainty/ 1 hour ago, Teancum said: One does not need to believe in a divine plan to find life meaningful and of lasting consequence though I know this is a favorite canard of religious people and they like using it against skeptics. It does not hold water. Anything that gives you meaning in life is not discoverable by science It comes from emotions 1 hour ago, Teancum said: And of course adherents of other religious traditions are not so much different and would happily impose their beliefs on you and condemn you to utter eternal suffering some miserable eternal hell because you have the wrong Jesus or don't accept Islam. We believe no such thing 1 hour ago, Teancum said: In fact when I start doubting the direction or path I am on I just need to spend a little time here to convince me I would never and could never go back to what the LDS believer I was. Good! Of course that is based on emotion. 1 hour ago, Teancum said: But I had to face what I perceive as truth and reality rather than a hope in a fantasy. Ah, hoping for what you PERCEIVE as truth, emotionally, hey? And of course what you perceive as truth is not a fantasy, because it's your truth, after all I knew we understood each other! Edited June 9, 2021 by mfbukowski 1 Link to comment
Teancum Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Baba Lou said: Yes, no fool can override what God has said and only a fool would try. What if a Muslim thinks God is telling to murder you because you are an infidel. Link to comment
Teancum Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 1 hour ago, mfbukowski said: Yes I do. I have epistemic certainty. "Certainty (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)" https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/certainty/ Anything that gives you meaning in life is not discoverable by science It comes from emotions Quote And of course adherents of other religious traditions are not so much different and would happily impose their beliefs on you and condemn you to utter eternal suffering some miserable eternal hell because you have the wrong Jesus or don't accept Islam. We believe no such thing Good! Of course that is based on emotion. Ah, hoping for what you PERCEIVE as truth, emotionally, hey? And of course what you perceive as truth is not a fantasy, because it's your truth, after all I knew we understood each other! Ok. What is someone has epistemic certainty that conflicts with your epistemic certainty? I know we have talked about this before but it still seems like a conundrum to me. I am not sure I agree that anything that gives meaning cannot be discoverable by science. There is a lot of study on the brain, how it works, how it develops, how our family of origin can impact that and bring us to who and what we are. Understanding this may allow us to use science to improve brain development that may bring people more joy and meaning. I did not say Latter-day Saints believed my comment above but there are sure a lot of faiths that do. Thus it was a proper example of a problematic result of religion. But LDS doctrine certainly does segregate people based on obedience, works and ordinances they claim to have the sole authority to administer. They also have a suffering miserably for a fixed period of time for one's own "sins" concept as well. You know, that suffering that caused God to bleed from every pour. As for the rest, part emotion part intellectual knowledge. Link to comment
mfbukowski Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Teancum said: Ok. What is someone has epistemic certainty that conflicts with your epistemic certainty? I know we have talked about this before but it still seems like a conundrum to me. You learn to deal with intellectual ambiguity then. You discuss it. Perry scheme etc. Relativism and doubt is part of growing up intellectually. Even relativism is only relatively true! It appears this a problem for many here, that's why Kevin brought it up so much Don't cling to fundamentalism Progression requires change and getting it wrong sometimes REQUIRES IT Edited June 9, 2021 by mfbukowski Link to comment
Baba Lou Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 46 minutes ago, Teancum said: What if a Muslim thinks God is telling to murder you because you are an infidel. Are you still trying to figure out who you should believe? Believe what God tells you. Not what other people say God has told them. It still amazes me that some people still don't seem to understand that not everybody is always telling the truth. And yet God always is, and always will. . Link to comment
Teancum Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Just now, Baba Lou said: Are you still trying to figure out who you should believe? Believe what God tells you. Not what other people say God has told them. It still amazes me that some people still don't seem to understand that not everybody is always telling the truth. And yet God always is, and always will. . A non answer.... Link to comment
jkwilliams Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Just now, Teancum said: A non answer.... Were you expecting anything else? Link to comment
Baba Lou Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 3 minutes ago, Teancum said: A non answer.... What would be your answer? What if a Muslim thinks God is telling (him?/her?)to murder you because you are an infidel? The fact that a Muslim thinks it is not proof that God has said it. Link to comment
Teancum Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 14 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Were you expecting anything else? This must be a new incarnation of a banned poster??? Link to comment
jkwilliams Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Teancum said: This must be a new incarnation of a banned poster??? Different name, no creepy avatar, but the same empty-headed nonsense. Link to comment
Calm Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, Teancum said: This must be a new incarnation of a banned poster??? Ahab is getting banned and almost immediately signing up and posting again for the past month or so....contrary to the contract he legally has agreed to when he accepts using this service paid for by others. I wonder if he shoplifts as he never agreed to pay to pick up stuff just lying around out where anyone can get to it or sneaks in to watch movies through back doors his friends open for him because he never agreed to pay for a ticket to see it. After all here he has to do an act that is meant to signify he agrees before he can post and yet he has said he hasn’t agreed to it, but the above don’t even have that. Edited June 10, 2021 by Calm 4 Link to comment
Tacenda Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Is Jesus a Jew or a Christian. Listened to a podcast this morning and the gal talked about her faith crisis which led her to research more into Christianity. I wonder really if Christianity in the Bible isn't just a big rip off, and Jesus isn't one. Link to comment
california boy Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 16 hours ago, Baba Lou said: Are you still trying to figure out who you should believe? Believe what God tells you. Not what other people say God has told them. It still amazes me that some people still don't seem to understand that not everybody is always telling the truth. And yet God always is, and always will. . Did God tell you to lie and cheat to get back on this board? Is this the God you follow? If you are an example of someone who follows what God tells him to do, you are horrible at it. You yourself have become living proof of the exploitive kind of person using God to justify immoral behavior. Instead of shame, you preach. I never minded your antics as Ahab, but this constant sock puppet and claiming to follow God is disgusting behavior. Link to comment
AtlanticMike Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: Is Jesus a Jew or a Christian. Jew Link to comment
jkwilliams Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Just now, AtlanticMike said: Jew A white, Scandinavian-looking Jew. Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: Is Jesus a Jew or a Christian. Listened to a podcast this morning and the gal talked about her faith crisis which led her to research more into Christianity. I wonder really if Christianity in the Bible isn't just a big rip off, and Jesus isn't one. I believe that while Jesus was born a Jew and became the “chief cornerstone” of his church and kingdom because of election and prophesy , he transcends such labels. Quote Helaman 14 12 And also that ye might know of the coming of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and of earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and that ye might know of the signs of his coming, to the intent that ye might believe on his name. 13 And if ye believe on his name ye will repent of all your sins, that thereby ye may have a remission of them through his merits. 14 And behold, again, another sign I give unto you, yea, a sign of his death. 15 For behold, he surely must die that salvation may come; yea, it behooveth him and becometh expedient that he dieth, to bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, that thereby men may be brought into the presence of the Lord. 16 Yea, behold, this death bringeth to pass the resurrection, and redeemeth all mankind from the first death—that spiritual death; for all mankind, by the fall of Adam being cut off from the presence of the Lord, are considered as dead, both as to things temporal and to things spiritual. 17 But behold, the resurrection of Christ redeemeth mankind, yea, even all mankind, and bringeth them back into the presence of the Lord. Link to comment
Calm Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 8 hours ago, Tacenda said: Is Jesus a Jew or a Christian. Listened to a podcast this morning and the gal talked about her faith crisis which led her to research more into Christianity. I wonder really if Christianity in the Bible isn't just a big rip off, and Jesus isn't one. Jesus was a Jew. Christ on the other hand is neither IMO, but something much more that includes both. Link to comment
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