Jump to content

Scrupulosity


Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, pogi said:

Yes, someone suffering from scrupulosity can be traumatized by repeatedly failing to attend church due to the expectation.  But that is a not the original assertion.

.  

 

It starts somewhere and people who aren't unhealthy can get stuck in a  feedback loop of harmful thought patterns, and then reach unhealthy levels. A sense of failure and helplessness can generate more unhealthy patterns and, at some point, traumatic experience. And more unhealthy patterns.

 

 

Link to post

FWIW while we are defining terms, there is a big difference between OCPD and OCD.  Scrupulousity which is not an official diagnosis seems to align well with OCPD. 
 

Link to post
4 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

FWIW while we are defining terms, there is a big difference between OCPD and OCD.  Scrupulousity which is not an official diagnosis seems to align well with OCPD. 
 

I think it’s also important to recognize that all of these mental health disorders exist on a continuous spectrum like height or weight. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
13 hours ago, Mark White said:

If some people aren't doing as well as they can then that must mean they are okay with not doing as well as they can, otherwise they would want to put in some effort to try to do better than they are doing. 

Not everyone understands themselves well enough to know their limits in any given situation. They may not realize they can’t do better or they may blame themselves that they can’t do more. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, pogi said:

can expecting 2-3 hours of church

Reading these types of threads is interesting. The Mormonism I was involved with prided itself on not being a Sunday only religion. I guess I was just doing it wrong, but I must have missed the general conference talk where they said - hey all we want you to do is show up for a couple of hours on Sunday then your scotch free for a week! 
 

It’s like on the excommunication thread where it felt like some church defenders were comparing an excommunication to losing your Sams club membership or something. 

Edited by SeekingUnderstanding
  • Upvote 2
Link to post
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I think it’s also important to recognize that all of these mental health disorders exist on a continuous spectrum like height or weight. 

But there are also significant differences between acute distress and chronic disorders, especially  where there is biological involvement (could be genetic, injury caused, or otherwise original to the person or developed over time due to extended stress responses or possibly the result of something else I can’t think of at the moment).

I say this because too often even those with the best intentions assume their temporary experience with depression or anxiety or helplessness or whatever is the same in quality as those who have mental disorders of these and they therefore assume they know what the other is experiencing.  I have seen this cause harm because they assume if the sufferer just does what they did to endure or get better, it will help and if it doesn’t, then the sufferer isn’t really trying to get better, etc.  Or the sufferer beats themselves up because they blame themselves for not making it work, not realizing even though  there are shared characteristics of their experiences, there are also fundamental differences that need to be addressed to be able to change. 

Edited by Calm
Link to post
6 minutes ago, Calm said:

But there are also significant differences between acute distress and chronic disorders, especially  where there is biological involvement (could be genetic, injury caused, or otherwise original to the person or developed over time due to extended stress responses or possibly the result of something else I can’t think of at the moment).

I say this because too often even those with the best intentions assume their temporary experience with depression or anxiety or helplessness or whatever is the same in quality as those who have mental disorders of these and they therefore assume they know what the other is experiencing.  I have seen this cause harm because they assume if the sufferer just does what they did to endure or get better, it will help and if it doesn’t, then the sufferer isn’t really trying to get better, etc.  Or the sufferer beats themselves up because they blame themselves for not making it work, not realizing even though  there are shared characteristics of their experiences, there are also fundamental differences that need to be addressed to be able to change. 

I didn’t mean to imply the latter at all. Merely that we are all on a spectrum. Anxiety is a normal healthy emotion. Some humans (psychopaths) feel too little and some feel way to much. It’s not like there is some easily marked line we can draw between normal and excessive any more than we can draw a bright line with say excessive height. I can define 7’ tall as being a giant, but many of the problems a 7’ tall person encounters, a 6’ 9” person will encounter as well.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I didn’t mean to imply the latter at all. 

I just feel the need to fill in gaps even when I know the poster themselves understands the issues....my own compulsion. :)
 

Quote

Merely that we are all on a spectrum. 

I wish there was a better term than spectrum for talking about range as I don’t believe we can so easily isolate one attribute and accurately describe it on a scale between two opposing extremes.  This imo renders oversimplified versions we then dissect as if the real thing.  Attributes are imo actually complex combinations as are behaviours even while they often appear to be one dimensional.

Edited by Calm
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
43 minutes ago, Calm said:

Not everyone understands themselves well enough to know their limits in any given situation. They may not realize they can’t do better or they may blame themselves that they can’t do more. 

Yes! When my first was born, I experienced massive blood loss due to uterine abruption...My doctor offered a transfusion and I declined. I was very, very tired. But as a first-timer I expected to be tired and thought the feeling was normal. 

That recovery was the worst of all six deliveries, the PPD was the most severe. But I didn't know it at the time, but I did know what I had been taught to do and be.

Link to post
1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Reading these types of threads is interesting. The Mormonism I was involved with prided itself on not being a Sunday only religion. I guess I was just doing it wrong, but I must have missed the general conference talk where they said - hey all we want you to do is show up for a couple of hours on Sunday then your scotch free for a week! 
 

It’s like on the excommunication thread where it felt like some church defenders were comparing an excommunication to losing your Sams club membership or something. 

So true!!

Link to post
2 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Reading these types of threads is interesting. The Mormonism I was involved with prided itself on not being a Sunday only religion. I guess I was just doing it wrong, but I must have missed the general conference talk where they said - hey all we want you to do is show up for a couple of hours on Sunday then your scotch free for a week! 
 

It’s like on the excommunication thread where it felt like some church defenders were comparing an excommunication to losing your Sams club membership or something. 

These threads always seem to come back to that: don't take the church or your covenants seriously, and ignore your priesthood leaders' counsel. Somehow I missed those lessons. 

Link to post
2 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Reading these types of threads is interesting. The Mormonism I was involved with prided itself on not being a Sunday only religion. I guess I was just doing it wrong, but I must have missed the general conference talk where they said - hey all we want you to do is show up for a couple of hours on Sunday then your scotch free for a week! 
 

It’s like on the excommunication thread where it felt like some church defenders were comparing an excommunication to losing your Sams club membership or something. 

47 Then shall the arm of the Lord fall upon the nations.
48 And then shall the Lord set his foot upon this mount, and it shall cleave in twain, and the earth shall tremble, and reel to and fro, and the heavens also shall shake.
49 And the Lord shall utter his voice, and all the ends of the earth shall hear it; and the nations of the earth shall mourn, and they that have laughed shall see their folly. (Doctrine and Covenants 45)

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
11 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

47 Then shall the arm of the Lord fall upon the nations.
48 And then shall the Lord set his foot upon this mount, and it shall cleave in twain, and the earth shall tremble, and reel to and fro, and the heavens also shall shake.
49 And the Lord shall utter his voice, and all the ends of the earth shall hear it; and the nations of the earth shall mourn, and they that have laughed shall see their folly. (Doctrine and Covenants 45)

Now that’s more like it!

Link to post
15 hours ago, JAHS said:

When it comes to checklists I like what Elder Oaks once said:
"From such teachings we conclude that the Final Judgment is not just an evaluation of a sum total of good and evil acts—what we have done. It is an acknowledgment of the final effect of our acts and thoughts—what we have become. It is not enough for anyone just to go through the motions. The commandments, ordinances, and covenants of the gospel are not a list of deposits required to be made in some heavenly account. The gospel of Jesus Christ is a plan that shows us how to become what our Heavenly Father desires us to become." (Dallin H. Oaks, “The Challenge to Become,” New Era, Aug. 2002, 12)

As long as we become what we are supposed to become how we get there may not need all things checked off a list.

I’m doomed.

Link to post
14 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Gee I’d like to be a member of your faith, sounds uplifting and hopeful.  😅😳

I am told it can be.

Link to post
12 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I am told it can be.

Tough break kid. Sometimes the formulas aren’t as predictable as promised.  
- one who knows

Link to post
Posted (edited)
On 4/27/2021 at 2:35 PM, JAHS said:

Scrupulosity is characterized by pathological guilt about moral or religious issues. It is personally distressing, objectively dysfunctional, and often accompanied by significant impairment in social functioning. It is typically conceptualized as a moral or religious form of obsessive–compulsive disorder

I was never a scrupulous individual till 6 months ago. The first 45 years of my life were spent believing that our church was first and foremost about loving one another and charity. I guess I've glossed over the important policies or maybe even some doctrines of our church most of my life because they weren't important to me. 

      Now, by the above definition, I definitely consider myself the poster boy for scrupulosity. I'm definitely obsessed with church doctrine and policies. I'm obsessed with its history and have spent well over a $1000 dollars on books. As of now, as much as I pride myself with being able to work through problems that I encounter, I've become preoccupied with anything to do with the church. It's almost as if I'm possessed. It is so weird!! I hope it goes away for my families sake. 

Edited by AtlanticMike
Link to post
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

I was never a scrupulous individual till 6 months ago. The first 45 years of my life were spent believing that our church was first and foremost about loving one another and charity. I guess I've glossed over the important policies or maybe even some doctrines of our church most of my life because they weren't important to me. 

      Now, by the above definition, I definitely consider myself the poster boy for scrupulosity. I'm definitely obsessed with church doctrine and policies. I'm obsessed with its history and have spent well over a $1000 dollars on books. As of now, as much as I pride myself with being able to work through problems that I encounter, I've become preoccupied with anything to do with the church. It's almost as if I'm possessed. It is so weird!! I hope it goes away for my families sake. 

I believe it's because you totally believed, lock stock and barrel. I think those that love church for social and whatever comes with it, and don't look at it like you or I and many others, they don't worry about the history or what not. And many on this board that are true believers, I believe would be right there with us, in not leaving it alone or doing research non stop if they had a crisis of faith.

Edited by Tacenda
Link to post
9 hours ago, Tacenda said:

And many on this board that are true believers, I believe would be right there with us, in not leaving it alone or doing research non stop if they had a crisis of faith.

My preferred research is first-person and in the present, not third-person and in the past. I find I get much clearer results that way.

  • Upvote 4
Link to post
2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

My preferred research is first-person and in the present, not third-person and in the past. I find I get much clearer results that way.

Good way to live Mormonism for sure!

Link to post
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Good way to live Mormonism for sure!

I don't think there's any other way. Why should I believe the frankly outlandish things that Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, etc. said/wrote if those things cannot be replicated in my own life?

On this point, I share the Prophet Joseph's scepticism as well as his epistemological approach:

Quote

If I had not experienced what I have, I should not have believed it myself.

 

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
  • Upvote 1
Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...