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Orthodox christianity


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On 4/26/2021 at 11:05 AM, poptart said:

Curious if anyone here is involved with or knows much about Orthodox Christianity.  Been reading up about AK and talking to friends, their Orthodox communities up there are still stellar.  Even down here they do interesting work.  Something i'm considering as time goes on, associating with groups that not only have good people but also find ways to keep their communities healthy and sound.  

https://www.stjohnalaska.org

Knew about these guys growing up, read a bit about them as well.  From what i've heard it's one of the few places in the states where you can live in a small, Christian community like you used to be able to decades ago.  When I left AK as a small child in the late 90s there were still communities where families grew up in local congregations, parishes etc.  Down here?  Outside of networking or joining a church/parish for their kids school?  Not so much it was all a business that wore the Christian mantle.  Older I get, more these small communities appeal to me.  

@Spammer :help:

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On 4/27/2021 at 4:02 PM, MiserereNobis said:

I'm going to push back hard against this line of thinking. The belief that if you don't get married you're going to end up abusing children is whacked. Marriage doesn't prevent pedophilia and not having sex doesn't cause it.

Well, I certainly hope so!  If I were going to start something akin to a monastic order for Latter-day Saints, how do you think I should go about it?

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31 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

At least I'm taking an interest beyond status and bling.   Orthodoxy does have some cool looking good crosses though.

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41 minutes ago, poptart said:

At least I'm taking an interest beyond status and bling.   Orthodoxy does have some cool looking good crosses though.

He is calling for the poster named Spammer, not accusing you of posting spam. :)

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On 4/27/2021 at 6:10 PM, mfbukowski said:

I guess that makes us the Universal (Catholic) Church then- the Latter Day Josephian Rite.  :)  

Ain't no way old joe could come up with this stuff hisself.  😝

And there is so much more from scapulars to communion rails veils, baptistries, signs of the cross, etc etc.

I used to have regular conversations - in the temple- with a former Catholic priest who was now a temple worker.

WOW!   I would love to publish that stuff- but of course it is never going to happen!

There IS a paper out there detailing a lot of what is publishable.  Can't remember the name of the writer- will keep trying.

 

For others...the context is the claim of an uncanny similarity between the Alexandrian Rite liturgy (I don't remember if it was for a Sacrament??? Confirmation perhaps. No matter.) and some of the Temple ceremonies.

Mark, hi.

I do not need to see Temple ceremonies to believe. The truth is plain as I see your enthusiasm in demonstrating another difficulty with naturalistic explanations for the Restoration of Joseph Smith. (I use the word "naturalistic" as a non-LDS. Robert Smith has shown me how LDS do not hold to the traditional view of a natural and supernatural order in the world. For you and Robert both, it would be clumsy to be always qualifying the way I use the word naturalistic. For future reference, please know that I am aware that LDS do not believe in the natural, as opposed to the supernatural, the way I use it. I think most readers will still ordinarily understand what I would be trying to say.) In this instance I am saying that it seems like Joseph was made privy to "inside information" that his immediate environment could hardly have provided.

Regards,

Rory

 

 

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1 hour ago, 3DOP said:

For others...the context is the claim of an uncanny similarity between the Alexandrian Rite liturgy (I don't remember if it was for a Sacrament??? Confirmation perhaps. No matter.) and some of the Temple ceremonies.

Mark, hi.

I do not need to see Temple ceremonies to believe. The truth is plain as I see your enthusiasm in demonstrating another difficulty with naturalistic explanations for the Restoration of Joseph Smith. (I use the word "naturalistic" as a non-LDS. Robert Smith has shown me how LDS do not hold to the traditional view of a natural and supernatural order in the world. For you and Robert both, it would be clumsy to be always qualifying the way I use the word naturalistic. For future reference, please know that I am aware that LDS do not believe in the natural, as opposed to the supernatural, the way I use it. I think most readers will still ordinarily understand what I would be trying to say.) In this instance I am saying that it seems like Joseph was made privy to "inside information" that his immediate environment could hardly have provided.

Regards,

Rory

 

 

Good!

By the way, as you know I tend to give you a hard time in differentiating between appearance and substance, and I want to point out that this IS the same dualism you point out here, AND also in seeing "Truth" as a kind of mental/spiritual "picture" which "corresponds" to what is defined as "real"

For me all 3 of these dualisms are ONE and the same.

For me, truth is what we experience, period, including our unavoidable psychological interpretations of experience.  YOU CANNOT GET PAST THOSE INTERPRETATIONS.

So mystical experience is as  "real" as anything can be. No dualism, no reason to even label it "mystical" in my world, just as there is no difference between supernatural and natural. 

The supernatural only remains "super" until we see it is also all "natural".

Also there is no difference between "appearance" and "reality" that can be defined - if I see water on the highway the first time iny my life, it IS water for all practical puposes- one could hit the brake- until we see it as "water" and then we call it a "mirage" or a misperception

But even then what is water?

For scientific purposes it is H2O if we need to see it that way, to show how chemistry works. But isn't it also quarks and subatomic paricles?

What IS the truth? It's all of these things and none of them, because language describes EXPERIENCE, not "reality", depending on which linguistic context we are attempting communication.

It depends on how we are talking about it!

And so the Eucharist IS the body blood, soul and divinity of Christ in a Catholic context. Truly as anything can be!

And our Sacrament can be the same! 

And in my opinion our revelations show this as a possible interpretation- and represents the philosophy of Pragmatism well!

D&C 20

Quote

77 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it, that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them

So our sacrament asks for God to "bless and sanctify" the bread (and later, the water) "to the souls of all those who partake of it" to make a covenant to God to become a member of his church, and keep the commandments, etc.

And so it appears that the Sacrament means something more to "those who partake of it" than those who do not, and that is also presumably the case in Catholicsm.

The Catholic priest, in the consecration repeats the words "This is my body", and so, I would hold, that in both cases these words change the REALITY of the bread and wine/water "for those who partake of it"- just as really as the words (according to Bishop Barron) "you are under arrest" change the status of the person to whom the officer says it.

The Words Create Reality.

John 1

Quote

 

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

 

Edited by mfbukowski
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13 hours ago, Calm said:

He is calling for the poster named Spammer, not accusing you of posting spam. :)

Ops, my bad.

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On 4/27/2021 at 3:23 PM, MiserereNobis said:

There is a Ukrainian Orthodox chapel near my town. I've known the priest over many years. We live fairly close to each other and tend to end up at the same brewpub on Wednesday evenings (live old-timey music is the main draw). We've had some good discussions -- there's so much in common. He invited me to vespers once when his bishop was visiting. There was a dinner afterwards and me and my other Catholic friend got to sit next to the bishop as it turned out. It was very enjoyable conversation. I agree with Pope John Paul II that Catholicism and Orthodoxy are the two lungs of (traditional) Christianity. I pray for the day that the schism is healed.

Me too!

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On 4/27/2021 at 3:37 PM, MiserereNobis said:

"You just gotta poke around"

Orthodox Lent has some pretty strict fasting, so this Ukranian Orthodox church in my town has a huge feast after Pascha (Easter, coming up in a few days for them I believe). My understanding is that it is no holds barred on the vodka during the feast, which starts around 1:30 AM. I know a guy who used to attend and he said he would just bring his VW bus and crash out in the parking lot after rather than driving home.

Orthodox Holy Week and Easter Vigil are intense too.

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I would love to take Holy Communion with our Orthodox brothers and sisters. Heck! I wanna take Holy Communion with my Eastern RIte Catholic brothers and Sisters at St. Thomas the Apostle Byzantine Catholic Church. However, if I'm gonna do that then I really need to brush up on how their services work so I don't look like a lost puppy. 😅

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10 minutes ago, Damien the Leper said:

I would love to take Holy Communion with our Orthodox brothers and sisters. Heck! I wanna take Holy Communion with my Eastern RIte Catholic brothers and Sisters at St. Thomas the Apostle Byzantine Catholic Church. However, if I'm gonna do that then I really need to brush up on how their services work so I don't look like a lost puppy. 😅

Remember, Orthodox communion is closed to Catholics. But you are welcome to communion at any Eastern Catholic Church (but yeah, study the liturgy beforehand not just so you know what to do, but so you can be edified by it, too).

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On 4/30/2021 at 6:29 AM, poptart said:

Ops, my bad.

It's all good.  No worries. 🤙 B:) 👍

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2 hours ago, Spammer said:

Hello. I heard I’ve been summoned. How can I help?

Curious about the Orthodox, mind educating a heretic?  

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3 hours ago, Spammer said:

Hello. I heard I’ve been summoned. How can I help?

Hey dude, great to see you!  I mean virtually. But since we construct reality our virtual reality is as real as.....except of course because, ...... and then if you see it that way....... but then, accepting that,........ ..

😱 ;)

 

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37 minutes ago, poptart said:

Curious about the Orthodox, mind educating a heretic?  

Yes the orthodox mind educates we who are heretics..... ;)

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

It's all good.  No worries. 🤙 B:) 👍

So now bad is all good?

Uh, I think this is gonna be a strange day for this old guy... ;)

 

Edited by mfbukowski
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14 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Yes the orthodox mind educates we who are heretics..... ;)

 

I'm a special variety of heretic...

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23 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Remember, Orthodox communion is closed to Catholics. But you are welcome to communion at any Eastern Catholic Church (but yeah, study the liturgy beforehand not just so you know what to do, but so you can be edified by it, too).

But it appears he is speaking of the Byzantine Rite, not an Orthodox church, which is ok, right?

While I was  RC I went to a Byzantine rite church fairly often, and received communion

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14 minutes ago, poptart said:

I'm a special variety of heretic...

Well I am more special than you, so there!  😇

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1 minute ago, mfbukowski said:

Well I am more special than you, so there!  😇

I'm speashul, I get a gold star on my name tag.  

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1 hour ago, poptart said:

Curious about the Orthodox, mind educating a heretic?  

Sure thing, I’ll do my best. :) What do you want to know?

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57 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Hey dude, great to see you!  I mean virtually. But since we construct reality our virtual reality is as real as.....except of course because, ...... and then if you see it that way....... but then, accepting that,........ ..

😱 ;)

 

Lol, good to ‘see’ you too.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

But it appears he is speaking of the Byzantine Rite, not an Orthodox church, which is ok, right?

While I was  RC I went to a Byzantine rite church fairly often, and received communion

If by Orthodox you mean Eastern Orthodox, then the Byzantine Catholic rite=the Orthodox rite. Both are Byzantine Rite churches. MiserereNobis pointed out the same regarding the Coptic churches. The Coptic Catholic rite=the Coptic Orthodox rite. What most distinguishes Eastern Catholic churches from their corresponding (shared rite) Orthodox churches is the former are in communion with Rome and the latter (for now) are not.

Edit to add: the same regional variation within the ancient Nicene creedal tradition pertains to the celibacy conversation above. Priests can be married in the Eastern Catholic and Orthodox churches. Celibacy is a Western Catholic (aka Latin Rite aka Roman Catholic) discipline. It’s not a dogma though, meaning that can change without doctrine changing.

Edited by Spammer
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1 hour ago, Spammer said:

Sure thing, I’ll do my best. :) What do you want to know?

For starters how close are they to the original post council of Naeceia Christianity?  Does the Orthodox church still have seats in the middle east and Asia Minor? 

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