Orthodox christianity

[mfbukowski]

3 hours ago, poptart said:

I'm speashul, I get a gold star on my name tag.  

LOL- You can always tell a Utahn by that pronunciation!   I like to pretend they are saying "spatial" because sometimes the comments seem to come from outer space..... 

I tray-jure trying to may-jure how spay-shul they actually are, though!   In fact it's a guilty play-sure of mine.    

 

 

[mfbukowski]

On 4/29/2021 at 5:15 PM, 3DOP said:

For others...the context is the claim of an uncanny similarity between the Alexandrian Rite liturgy (I don't remember if it was for a Sacrament??? Confirmation perhaps. No matter.) and some of the Temple ceremonies.

Mark, hi.

I do not need to see Temple ceremonies to believe. The truth is plain as I see your enthusiasm in demonstrating another difficulty with naturalistic explanations for the Restoration of Joseph Smith. (I use the word "naturalistic" as a non-LDS. Robert Smith has shown me how LDS do not hold to the traditional view of a natural and supernatural order in the world. For you and Robert both, it would be clumsy to be always qualifying the way I use the word naturalistic. For future reference, please know that I am aware that LDS do not believe in the natural, as opposed to the supernatural, the way I use it. I think most readers will still ordinarily understand what I would be trying to say.) In this instance I am saying that it seems like Joseph was made privy to "inside information" that his immediate environment could hardly have provided.

Regards,

Rory

 

 

I MOST HIGHLY recommend the best article- having been myself a Catholic fairly well educated (Catholic high school taught by Augustinian priests) in the fundamentals of Cathoicism- comparing LDS temple to the liturgy of the Roman Mass, I have ever seen in my life.

It is 33 pages, a pdf and will take maybe an hour or so to read.

It does not contain any information whatsoever that LDS folks would find offensive, and only speaks about temple ordinances in a general way.

I cannot recommend it enough to everyone on this thread or with interest in these issues!   

https://byustudies.byu.edu/article/the-catholic-liturgy-and-the-mormon-temple/

This is an older article- many  of the descriptions of the Mass refer to the Tridentine Mass which is now being given less and less, and typically represents a more "conservative" liturgy than is commonly seen today- yet it is still performed in many churches.

Also sometimes I have notice that the descriptions are clearly made for LDS members, in discussing Catholic practices.

The Catholic practice is described without mentioning the LDS equivalent so that the sacredness of the LDS ritual is preserved, yet would be clearly apparent to the LDS reader, so clearly the article is designed more for the LDS reader than the Catholic reader.

But hopefully the Catholic reader will know that IF the article mentions Catholic practice at all- it is BECAUSE there is a close parallel there to the LDS practice.

So perhaps the Catholic reader should be aware of at least how many parallels there ARE if nothing more, even if the LDS similarities are not described in detail

 

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by mfbukowski

[poptart]

31 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

LOL- You can always tell a Utahn by that pronunciation!   I like to pretend they are saying "spatial" because sometimes the comments seem to come from outer space..... 

I tray-jure trying to may-jure how spay-shul they actually are, though!   In fact it's a guilty play-sure of mine.    

 

 

Whelp, not a Utahn but i've lived in the mountain west long enough so maybe honorary?  I love Utah, they have all the outdoorsy stuff I like plus nice cities.  Funny, most people don't think the mountain states have any dialect differences, you do have to be from around here to see it.  

[Spammer]

On 4/30/2021 at 5:29 PM, Damien the Leper said:

I would love to take Holy Communion with our Orthodox brothers and sisters. Heck! I wanna take Holy Communion with my Eastern RIte Catholic brothers and Sisters at St. Thomas the Apostle Byzantine Catholic Church. However, if I'm gonna do that then I really need to brush up on how their services work so I don't look like a lost puppy. 😅

The Byzantine Liturgy is beautiful.  In my experience, Sunday worship in the Byzantine rite is comprised of Orthros (morning prayer), about 20-25 minutes of chanted psalms and doxologies, immediately followed by the Divine Liturgy - what Catholics call the Mass. Orthros and the Divine Liturgy are entirely chanted and sung and one runs into the other without a break.  Unless you know what to look for or are familiar with the prayers and structure, it will seem like 2-2.5 hours of sung prayer, interrupted only by the homily. The way you'll know you're transitioning to the Divine Liturgy proper is when the the priest sings the words "Blessed is kingdom of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." 

Whether Byzantine Catholic or Eastern Orthodox, the liturgy is the same. If you've never experienced it, you should definitely go to a Byzantine Catholic church so you can participate in the liturgy and receive communion.  It’s glorious, especially if the priest and choir know how to sing. Just be sure to cross yourself from right to left every time the Trinity is invoked, with the tips of your thumb and next two fingers pressed together (the Trinity) and the tips of your last two fingers pressed into your palm (Christ’s dual natures). If you cross yourself open handed from left to right, they’ll know your a Latin interloper.  Another difference from the Latin Rite: in the communion line, everyone crosses their arms on their chest and sings "Receive the Body of Christ; taste the fountain of immortality" over and over until the last person has received. The consecrated bread and wine are mixed in the chalice and the priest gives it to each properly confessed and disposed communicant with a spoon.  Open wide and head back: the priest will drop the Eucharist into your mouth. Just do what the others do and you'll be fine.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Spammer

[Spammer]

2 hours ago, poptart said:

For starters how close are they to the original post council of Naeceia Christianity?  Does the Orthodox church still have seats in the middle east and Asia Minor? 

I assume you're thinking of the Eastern Orthodox church and not the monophysite Oriental Orthodox churches in communion with neither the Greeks/Slavs nor Rome, so I'll answer accordingly.

The question of who's closer to the original Nicene Christianity (Rome or the Greeks) is a matter of interpretation. Both accept the authority of the first seven ecumenical councils (Nicea was the first). The creed recited in both churches is based on the Nicene formulation, as amended by the second ecumenical council in Constantinople in 381 ad. Where they differ is Rome's later addition of the filioque clause to the Creed, which the Eastern Orthodox reject.  Who's closer depends on how you answer the question about the legitimacy of Rome's addition, which in turn is related to the role of the Bishop of Rome.  The filioque and the issue of papal supremacy is what currently (sadly) separates the two churches. 

The ancient seat of Byzantine Orthodoxy in terms of primacy is Constantinople/Istanbul.  It's still there, 568 years after the Muslim conquest. The Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew is the current occupant of the Patriarch's seat there.  There are also Orthodox patriarchs in the more ancient sees of Jerusalem, Antioch and Alexandria. So yes, the Orthodox church still has seats in the Middle East and Asia Minor.

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Spammer

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

LOL- You can always tell a Utahn by that pronunciation!   I like to pretend they are saying "spatial" because sometimes the comments seem to come from outer space..... 

I tray-jure trying to may-jure how spay-shul they actually are, though!   In fact it's a guilty play-sure of mine.    

 

 

I was at the store today and the checker asked if I grew up in Utah because I told the bagger he didn't need to put the pop in bags. I guess it must be a Utah thing, because the checker said they never called it that where she came from.

[MiserereNobis]

2 hours ago, Spammer said:

If you cross yourself open handed from left to right, they’ll know your a Latin interloper.

Love it! 😂😊

[mfbukowski]

4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I was at the store today and the checker asked if I grew up in Utah because I told the bagger he didn't need to put the pop in bags. I guess it must be a Utah thing, because the checker said they never called it that where she came from.

I'm from Western NY near Palmyra, and we always said "pop".   I had some friends from NJ and they called it "soda".  So who knows??

 

[longview]

7 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

I'm from Western NY near Palmyra, and we always said "pop".   I had some friends from NJ and they called it "soda".  So who knows??

 

How about combining the terms "soda pop"?  I have.  I grew up in SLC.

[AtlanticMike]

12 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I was at the store today and the checker asked if I grew up in Utah because I told the bagger he didn't need to put the pop in bags. I guess it must be a Utah thing, because the checker said they never called it that where she came from.

I love when people from Utah move into our Ward, they tend to like the same activities I do, especially camping and hiking. I also love the accent. One of my good friends says "what the frick" all the time, it cracks me up. Also, I love "you betcha".

[MiserereNobis]

Happy pascha to @Spammerand any other Orthodox here 😊

[Peacefully]

9 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

I'm from Western NY near Palmyra, and we always said "pop".   I had some friends from NJ and they called it "soda".  So who knows??

 

In my part of Texas, everything is a coke. As in “what kind of coke do you want?” Answer: “Dr.Pepper” Lol!

My dad called them “sody waters.”

 

Edited May 2, 2021 by Peacefully

[mfbukowski]

11 hours ago, longview said:

How about combining the terms "soda pop"?  I have.  I grew up in SLC.

To me that adds another unnecessary syllable.   Does not compute. 

[mfbukowski]

8 hours ago, Peacefully said:

In my part of Texas, everything is a coke. As in “what kind of coke do you want?” Answer: “Dr.Pepper” Lol!

My dad called them “sody waters.”

 

Yessir. Ah was in Houston last week, and had me lotsa Dr. Pepper cokes!  Tha minute I get into town, ah start fixin ta get me some great Bar BQ, and ah did that too!  Love that thar state !

 

[Damien the Leper]

On 4/30/2021 at 2:40 PM, MiserereNobis said:

Remember, Orthodox communion is closed to Catholics. But you are welcome to communion at any Eastern Catholic Church (but yeah, study the liturgy beforehand not just so you know what to do, but so you can be edified by it, too).

I know. I still wanna do it though. This divide needs to end.

[Spammer]

6 hours ago, Damien the Leper said:

I know. I still wanna do it though. This divide needs to end.

If the priest doesn’t know you when approaching the chalice, he’ll probably ask point blank if you’re Orthodox. That’s always been my experience when visiting a new parish.

[3DOP]

7 hours ago, Damien the Leper said:

I know. I still wanna do it though. This divide needs to end.

It will end through the conversion of Russia to the glory of God, and to the honor of the Immaculate Heart of our Blessed Mother, and to the eternal confusion of the enemy of our souls. Foretold in Scripture, Tradition, and the Message of Our Lady of Fatima...only yesterday it seems, in the 20th Century! You were probably alive in that century if you are tired of the Tanners...(very rightly so)

Your holy impatience notwithstanding!

God bless,

3DOP