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When asked what church you belong to, how do you respond?


When Asked What Church You Belong To, How do you Respond?  

32 members have voted

  1. 1. When Asked What Church You Belong To, How do you Respond?

    • I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
      24
    • I'm a Mormon
      10
    • The Church of the Latter-day Saints circa 1834-1838
      0
    • The Church of Jesus Christ
      1
    • The Restored Church of Jesus Christ
      1
    • The Church of Christ circa 1830-1834
      0
    • I forget but it was founded by a guy named Joseph something
      0


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7 minutes ago, Calm said:

Catholics are attacked this way. Second condition doesn’t apply that I am aware of though.  

Jehovah’s Witnesses are closer, attacked as nonChristian and has a name of God in their title ...wonder how their name was chosen.  There are many nicknames for them that drop “Jehovah” as well. 

Very true. Rub an anti-Mormon, and there's an anti-Catholic underneath. And the Jehovah's Witnesses are less highly-regarded than Mormons are. 

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1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I don’t recall any disinformation campaigns being waged against Baptists to the effect that they are not a Christian faith. And, to my knowledge, they are not under direct commandment from Jesus Christ to formally attach His name to their church. 

Baptists aren't a Christian faith though. Baptists are Christians. 

I'm speaking about the name used to describe religious adherents - not the name for the religion / faith to which those individuals belong.

And, as @Calm rightly noted, Catholics are attacked with some regularity. 

When I was growing up here in Texas the Catholics and Mormons got along especially well because we were all treated...similarly by the religious majority.

With hindsight, I'm kind of grateful for it. I've never had anything but good feelings toward our Catholic brothers and sisters. Gosh, I hope Father Bill is still going strong. :) 

 

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14 minutes ago, Amulek said:

Baptists aren't a Christian faith though. Baptists are Christians. 

I'm speaking about the name used to describe religious adherents - not the name for the religion / faith to which those individuals belong.

And, as @Calm rightly noted, Catholics are attacked with some regularity. 

When I was growing up here in Texas the Catholics and Mormons got along especially well because we were all treated...similarly by the religious majority.

With hindsight, I'm kind of grateful for it. I've never had anything but good feelings toward our Catholic brothers and sisters. Gosh, I hope Father Bill is still going strong. :) 

 

Where did you or Calm get the idea I dispute that Catholics and Jehovah’s Witnesses get attacked? I was addressing your dismissal of President Nelson’s argument (I haven’t checked on it, so I’ll take your word that he said it) that calling ourselves Mormons might give people the wrong idea about whom we worship. Do you deny that there has been a disinformation campaign for multiple decades now about wether we worship Christ? 

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4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Where did you or Calm get the idea I dispute that Catholics and Jehovah’s Witnesses get attacked?

I didn’t, but you didn’t explore that aspect for them while you did for Baptists as if that fact they were seen as Christian was something definitive. 

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28 minutes ago, Calm said:

I didn’t, but you didn’t explore that aspect for them while you did for Baptists as if that fact they were seen as Christian was something definitive. 

I’ve re-read that comment a few times now trying to get the sense of it, but I’m not having any real success. So I’ll just try to restate my position more clearly. 
 

Amulek dismissed what he said was President Nelson’s argument that Church members who call themselves Mormons might unwittingly convey the wrong impression that they are followers of Mormon instead of followers of Christ.  In doing this, he cited Baptists as analogy, saying no one mistakes them for being followers of John the Baptist. I countered that this is not an apt comparison, as Baptists, unlike Latter-day Saints, have not been the subject of a decades-long disinformation movement trying to convince the public that they are not Christian. That is to say, Latter-day Saints, perhaps more than any other group, must try to counter this false impression because they have been placed at a disadvantage by said disinformation movement. 
 

I said nothing about Catholics or Jehovah’s Witnesses. 

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13 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Where did you or Calm get the idea I dispute that Catholics and Jehovah’s Witnesses get attacked?

Not a dispute so much as a gloss. The same people who tend to believe that Mormons aren't Christians (i.e., conservative Protestant evangelicals) likewise believe that Catholics aren't properly following Christ, yet there is no confusion about who they are attempting to follow.

 

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Do you deny that there has been a disinformation campaign for multiple decades now about wether we worship Christ? 

I am fortunately (or unfortunately) old enough to have lived through the hey-day of anti-Mormon (anti-Latter Day Saint?) rhetoric through the dawn of the information age.

When I was a kid, the local churches in my hometown would have workshops dedicated to teaching people about the dangerous cults gaining popularity in the world. We were regularly featured in those classes, so yes, I am very familiar with the fact that many people have been given misinformation about the Church. Though, honestly, I think such fervor has largely died down over the years.

 

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Amulek dismissed what he said was President Nelson’s argument that Church members who call themselves Mormons might unwittingly convey the wrong impression that they are followers of Mormon instead of followers of Christ.

Here's the portion of his remarks I was referring to [link].

"For much of the world, the Lord’s Church is presently disguised as the “Mormon Church.” But we as members of the Lord’s Church know who stands at its head: Jesus Christ Himself. Unfortunately, many who hear the term Mormon may think that we worship Mormon. Not so! We honor and respect that great ancient American prophet. But we are not Mormon’s disciples. We are the Lord’s disciples."

Now, I don't know how many people President Nelson had in mind when he said that "many who hear the term Mormon may think that we worship Mormon," but I have spent a good portion of my life in the Bible Belt, where (as I mentioned above) anti-Mormon sentiment was kind of a thing, yet I have never heard anyone say that they thought Mormons worship Mormon. Not from any of the kids I knew in school growing up (including those who were hostile to my faith), nobody that I talked to on my US-based mission, not anyone I have run into in my entire adult life. Nobody.

I'm not going to speak ill of President Nelson, who I both love and respect, but I don't feel like he made a very compelling point here.

 

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In doing this, he cited Baptists as analogy, saying no one mistakes them for being followers of John the Baptist.

Correct. Just because the name used to describe members of a certain faith makes reference to a proper name doesn't mean that the person so named is the object of their worship.

 

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I countered that this is not an apt comparison, as Baptists, unlike Latter-day Saints, have not been the subject of a decades-long disinformation movement trying to convince the public that they are not Christian. That is to say, Latter-day Saints, perhaps more than any other group, must try to counter this false impression because they have been placed at a disadvantage by said disinformation movement. 

And I support President Nelson's inspiration that a renewed emphasis ought to be placed on the name of the Church.

However, the Lord never gave a similar commandment about what term ought to be used for the members of said church. And if we're talking about the term to use for adherents, "member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" is just too cumbersome to use in daily conversation.

I get that "Latter-day Saint" is preferred now, but I honestly don't see how it is markedly superior to "Mormon." Certainly not based on any of the reasons given.

I mean, if people assume that Mormons go to the Mormon Church, then wouldn't those same people believe that Latter-day Saints go to the Church of Latter-day Saints (which, by the way, also omits the name of Christ and is specifically 'not preferred' by the Church in its style guide)? If people assume Mormons worship Mormon, then wouldn't those same people assume that Latter-day Saints worship Saints? Etc.

In short, I'm not convinced that using Latter-day Saint, as opposed to Mormon, when referring to members of the Church is going to do anything to push the needle about what people believe about us. If you don't believe that Mormons are Christians then you're not going to believe that Latter-day Saints are Christian either. 

 

 

Edited by Amulek
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2 hours ago, Amulek said:

Certainly not based on any of the reasons given.

Saint is a scriptural name for members of the Church, is it not?

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6 hours ago, Amulek said:

Not a dispute so much as a gloss. The same people who tend to believe that Mormons aren't Christians (i.e., conservative Protestant evangelicals) likewise believe that Catholics aren't properly following Christ, yet there is no confusion about who they are attempting to follow.


 

I just wondered why the conversation had gotten into the weeds regarding whether Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses had been attacked when I never even mentioned them in my response.

 

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Here's the portion of his remarks I was referring to [link].

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"For much of the world, the Lord’s Church is presently disguised as the “Mormon Church.” But we as members of the Lord’s Church know who stands at its head: Jesus Christ Himself. Unfortunately, many who hear the term Mormon may think that we worship Mormon. Not so! We honor and respect that great ancient American prophet. But we are not Mormon’s disciples. We are the Lord’s disciples."

Now, I don't know how many people President Nelson had in mind when he said that "many who hear the term Mormon may think that we worship Mormon," but I have spent a good portion of my life in the Bible Belt, where (as I mentioned above) anti-Mormon sentiment was kind of a thing, yet I have never heard anyone say that they thought Mormons worship Mormon. Not from any of the kids I knew in school growing up (including those who were hostile to my faith), nobody that I talked to on my US-based mission, not anyone I have run into in my entire adult life. Nobody.

 

 

 

I think that here, President Nelson may have been alluding to the Savior's discourse to the Nephites when He said: "And how be it my church save it be called in my name? For if a church be called in Moses’ name then it be Moses’ church; or if it be called in the name of a man then it be the church of a man; but if it be called in my name then it is my church, if it so be that they are built upon my gospel. (3 Nephi 27:5, 7-8) Whether or not people get the impression that we follow Mormon, if we use any other name or term than Christ's they are apt to get the impression we don't believe this is Christ's Church.

 

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I'm not going to speak ill of President Nelson, who I both love and respect, but I don't feel like he made a very compelling point here.

I appreciate that you do love, respect and support President Nelson. I don't doubt or challenge that. I just think that in this specific instance, we disagree on what expression or behavior our support of him should take.

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However, the Lord never gave a similar commandment about what term ought to be used for the members of said church. And if we're talking about the term to use for adherents, "member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" is just too cumbersome to use in daily conversation.

I get that "Latter-day Saint" is preferred now, but I honestly don't see how it is markedly superior to "Mormon." Certainly not based on any of the reasons given.

I mean, if people assume that Mormons go to the Mormon Church, then wouldn't those same people believe that Latter-day Saints go to the Church of Latter-day Saints (which, by the way, also omits the name of Christ and is specifically 'not preferred' by the Church in its style guide)? If people assume Mormons worship Mormon, then wouldn't those same people assume that Latter-day Saints worship Saints? Etc.

In short, I'm not convinced that using Latter-day Saint, as opposed to Mormon, when referring to members of the Church is going to do anything to push the needle about what people believe about us. If you don't believe that Mormons are Christians then you're not going to believe that Latter-day Saints are Christian either. 

 

I have always been on board with the Brethren's admonition not to drop or sever the name of Christ from the name of His Church. I'll admit that updated guidelines from President Nelson on this point since he became Church president are more stringent than even I was used to. I've had to make a course correction in my own behavior.

But I think I can see reason in his latest guidelines. Any nickname relating to the Church or to us as members -- even the initialism "LDS" -- is apt to fall into frequent use as an appellation for the Church in place of the name of Christ. That has been shown to be the case over time. So I think there is wisdom in using only the Church's formal name or portions thereof in referring to the Church or ourselves as a body.  

Assuming arguendo that there is no scriptural mandate about what Christ's followers should call themselves, I submit that I don't take my direction exclusively from the Standard Works. I also follow application of scriptural principles that the prophet may from time to time issue forth under inspiration. In that respect I choose to trust him in his role as watchman on the tower. 

 

 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

But I think I can see reason in his latest guidelines. Any nickname relating to the Church or to us as members -- even the initialism "LDS" -- is apt to fall into frequent use as an appellation for the Church in place of the name of Christ. 

What about "Latter-day Saint," instead of "LDS?" That is **the** go-to for even general authorities in referring to members, and as Amulek has said, that also fails all of the criteria used to decry "Mormon."

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1 hour ago, rongo said:

What about "Latter-day Saint," instead of "LDS?" That is **the** go-to for even general authorities in referring to members, and as Amulek has said, that also fails all of the criteria used to decry "Mormon."

You’re not getting my point. “Latter-day Saints” is part of the proper name of the Church; “LDS” is not.  “LDS” is arguably more apt to fall into colloquial use as a nickname for the Church in place of the name of Christ than is “Latter-day Saints.”  I don’t very often hear the expression “Latter-day Saints Church,” but I hear “LDS Church” all the time. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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1 hour ago, Calm said:

Saint is a scriptural name for members of the Church, is it not?

Perhaps, but not unambiguously so. The term is certainly used in both the Old and New Testaments, but what is meant my the word today is still largely dependent on the denomination. When a Baptist and a Catholic here or use the word "saint," they don't necessarily think the same thing. Plus, let's not forget that there are Hindu Saints, Muslim Saints, etc. I hear there's even a breed of dog that's been sainted. ;)

 

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7 minutes ago, Amulek said:

Perhaps, but not unambiguously so. The term is certainly used in both the Old and New Testaments, but what is meant my the word today is still largely dependent on the denomination. When a Baptist and a Catholic here or use the word "saint," they don't necessarily think the same thing. Plus, let's not forget that there are Hindu Saints, Muslim Saints, etc. I hear there's even a breed of dog that's been sainted. ;)

 

I think we should take our pattern from scriptural and prophetic direction, not from sectarian or colloquial use, malleable as it is. 

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On 4/20/2021 at 11:16 AM, Fair Dinkum said:

In another thread Scott Lloyd and I got into a pedantic discussion over the use of the I'm a Mormon terminology when referencing oneself and my assertion of its use being a victory for Satan.  This discussion caused me to wonder at the great power and influence President Nelson's had to enact such a seismic change in LDS vernacular with seemingly one simple request where in he made the use of the term Mormon, when referring to ones self, a hiss and a by word.

Not only have I personally been corrected when calling myself a Mormon, I've actually had members of the church get rather agitated when I've done so.  I still prefer using the descriptor Mormon when referring to myself, since the official name of the church is cumbersome and rather long, I prefer the nickname.

So I am curious to know how members of this august board refer to themselves when asked what church you belong to and I would also like to know if you have stopped referring to yourself as a Mormon Why have you done so?

For those that refer to themselves as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do you take a deep breath after doing so and do you share it in a normal conversational cadence enunciating each and every word or do you speed through the name and plow through it due to its length in a sing song manner?

Whenever I’m asked to which  church I belong, I put a great big smile on my face and then with tremendous enthusiasm and pride sing...

“I belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I know who I am. I know God’s plan. I’ll follow him in faith!

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2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I think that here, President Nelson may have been alluding to the Savior's discourse to the Nephites [...]

Maybe. I don't know what he may or may not have been alluding to.

All I know is what he actually said, and what he said is that, "(u)nfortunately, many who hear the term Mormon may think that we worship Mormon."

But, like I said before, I have never in my life ever met a single person who thinks we worship Mormon. Have you? Has anyone who's still reading this thread (honest question)?

I just can't see the point in avoiding the term in order to prevent people from thinking that we worship Mormon if nobody actually thinks that we worship Mormon in the first place.

 

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Whether or not people get the impression that we follow Mormon [...]

Kind of makes a difference if you're using that as one of the reasons for avoiding the term.

 

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[...] if we use any other name or term than Christ's they are apt to get the impression we don't believe this is Christ's Church.

Only the term Latter-day Saint doesn't include Christ's name either.

 

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I appreciate that you do love, respect and support President Nelson. I don't doubt or challenge that.

And, to be clear, I haven't felt that you or anyone else has done that.

 

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I just think that in this specific instance, we disagree on what expression or behavior our support of him should take.

I don't know that we do. I think where we differ is in our determination of prophetic command vs council vs preference.

I believe the prophet's remarks on the name of the church falls on the leftward side of that spectrum, whereas using/avoiding the term Mormon to refer to members of the church is more on the right-hand side.

 

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Assuming arguendo that there is no scriptural mandate about what Christ's followers should call themselves, [...]

Which there isn't. If there were, we could simply point to it like we do with the name of the church.

 

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I submit that I don't take my direction exclusively from the Standard Works. I also follow application of scriptural principles that the prophet may from time to time issue forth under inspiration. In that respect I choose to trust him in his role as watchman on the tower. 

I trust him as well. But every principle, policy, or preference - even when uttered by the prophet - it not the equivalent of scripture.

And I'm just a tiny bit concerned that those who live in environs where "Latter-day Saint" is both commonly used and understood are going to use this as a virtue-signaling device whenever they encounter differing behavior from those living outside of happy valley.

 

Edited by Amulek
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37 minutes ago, Amulek said:

 

I trust him as well. But every principle, policy, or preference - even when uttered by the prophet - it not the equivalent of scripture.

And I'm just a tiny bit concerned that those who live in environs where Latter-day Saint is both commonly used and understood are going to use this as a virtue-signaling device whenever they encounter differing behavior from those living outside of happy valley.

 

I’ve not seen any indication of that happening so far — although what does and does not constitute virtue signaling can be in the eye of the beholder. If someone happens to notice that I don’t use the terms “Mormon Church” and “LDS Church” anymore and concludes from that that that I am virtue signaling, there’s not a lot I can do about that. 
 

Whether this is not really inspired direction but rather is to be regarded as an expression of “preference” or some such thing becomes, I think, a matter of having “ears to hear.” But when I look at President Nelson’s more recent general conference statements on this subject, I have to say I can think of no other subject on which he has been more emphatic or endeavored to be more explicit. That, to me, means a great deal. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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4 hours ago, Amulek said:

Maybe. I don't know what he may or may not have been alluding to.

All I know is what he actually said, and what he said is that, "(u)nfortunately, many who hear the term Mormon may think that we worship Mormon."

But, like I said before, I have never in my life ever met a single person who thinks we worship Mormon. Have you? Has anyone who's still reading this thread (honest question)?

Yes. Not a lot, but a few.

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I just can't see the point in avoiding the term in order to prevent people from thinking that we worship Mormon if nobody actually thinks that we worship Mormon in the first place.

 

Kind of makes a difference if you're using that as one of the reasons for avoiding the term.

 

Only the term Latter-day Saint doesn't include Christ's name either.

 

And, to be clear, I haven't felt that you or anyone else has done that.

 

I don't know that we do. I think where we differ is in our determination of prophetic command vs council vs preference.

I believe the prophet's remarks on the name of the church falls on the leftward side of that spectrum, whereas using/avoiding the term Mormon to refer to members of the church is more on the right-hand side.

 

Which there isn't. If there were, we could simply point to it like we do with the name of the church.

 

I trust him as well. But every principle, policy, or preference - even when uttered by the prophet - it not the equivalent of scripture.

And I'm just a tiny bit concerned that those who live in environs where "Latter-day Saint" is both commonly used and understood are going to use this as a virtue-signaling device whenever they encounter differing behavior from those living outside of happy valley.

 

If we have people virtue signaling with "saint" we will have them virtue signaling with "mormon" in a different way.  I just don't care what anyone says.

Edited by Rain
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In early 1988 I was a beta tester for the online service that later became "AOL".  (And in case anyone wonders why I use the name "InCognitus", it's because it's the same name I created in March of 1988 for my non-official participation online).  Because of that early exposure, and through some other connections by participating in one of their partner channels, I was fortunate to get free account with that service up until the time they no longer charged an hourly or monthly fee.  But because I had free online access, I spent some of my free time on their religion message boards and chatting with people in their religion chat rooms.  I still like religion chat rooms, but good ones are hard to find these days. 

But because of this online and internet experience, I often get asked what church I attend.  I almost always say, "I'm a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints".  And if they appear to be confused, I frequently add, "Also known as Mormons".  

Occasionally someone brings up the "LDS" abbreviation.  Of course that typically starts the LSD jokes, or references to the scene in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home (the movie I refer to as "Humpback to the Future") where Kirk is trying to create a fake backstory for Spock, and says "I think he did a little too much LDS".  I try to avoid that abbreviation for that very reason :) 

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 I tell individuals who are LDS critics that I am a Believer, Christian, Disciple, Seeker, Latter Day Saint, Saint, Mormon. And that I also go by the Idiom Titles of LDS, Saint, Christian, Sentinel, Son Of Thunder, Kryptonian, Warrior. I get alot of staring facial expressions like okay that just happened, and what are you talking about, I love the interaction. By the way everyonne I am back. Good to be here, it's been months.

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On 4/20/2021 at 9:16 AM, Fair Dinkum said:

For those that refer to themselves as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do you take a deep breath after doing so and do you share it in a normal conversational cadence enunciating each and every word or do you speed through the name and plow through it due to its length in a sing song manner?

I often consider just singing the Primary song "The Church of Jesus Christ" just to see how weirded out the asker feels once they realize that, for a small time, I have trapped them in a miniature, real-life musical. I'm never brave enough to act on that consideration though.

Edited by latterdaytemplar
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On 4/20/2021 at 8:16 AM, Fair Dinkum said:

For those that refer to themselves as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do you take a deep breath after doing so and do you share it in a normal conversational cadence enunciating each and every word or do you speed through the name and plow through it due to its length in a sing song manner?

Hello.  I am a member of the church of Christ that is more formally known as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and when I refer to myself as a member of this church I usually do take a deep breath before I say that in a normal conversational cadence while enunciating each and every word.

Most often I refer to myself as a member of the church of Jesus Christ, and I wonder why more Christians don't say that.  I wonder why some prefer to call themselves a Baptist or Methodist or Catholic or Mormon or Latter-day Saint?  Names that signify or suggest a division in what they might believe is the church of Jesus Christ, as a divided kingdom or kingdom with divisions.  But whatever we choose to call ourselves I do believe we should emphasize the name of Jesus Christ and that as members of his church we should be choosing to follow him.

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37 minutes ago, Mark White said:

But whatever we choose to call ourselves I do believe we should emphasize the name of Jesus Christ and that as members of his church we should be choosing to follow him.

Welcome to the board. :)

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