Is ' I'm a christian ' the new ' I'm a mormon '

[Fair Dinkum]

Last week's General Conference was the most Christian Conference in my lifetime.  (I actually predicted this in another thread) The entire feel of Conference was overtly Christ centered.  I applaud the church for going out of their way to be so Christian themed.  Although I have not done any searches to confirm, other than confirmed that the vast majority of Conference addressees were in fact Christ themed,  I would be curious to know if anyone else picked up on this or has done a search for the christian tag lines such as Jesus Christ, Christian, Christ, Jesus, Savior etc and compare it with previous conferences to confirm?

I'm also curious to know if we will see more members of the church referring to themselves as Christians since it seems at least to me to be politically correct for members of the church to refer to themselves as Christian now that referring to oneself as a Mormon is a victory for Satan?

 

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Fair Dinkum

[poptart]

So long as you're not Trinitarians and the people who believe in that hold sway, I doubt it, at least in Christiandom here.   However, among us who really can't stand the hypocrisy and political games religious people and entities here like to play, I'd say good chance especially with the likes of me.  You guys have better families, are better educated and while privileged WASPs are spending their hard earned money so their kids can party at college, your kids serve.  Then again the likes of me really aren't a target demographic, if it means anything if I ever had LDS neighbors and their house was being broken into i'd at least call the cops.  Hope that means something.

Edited April 14, 2021 by poptart

[Fair Dinkum]

10 minutes ago, poptart said:

So long as you're not Trinitarians and the people who believe in that hold sway, I doubt it, at least in Christiandom here.   However, among us who really can't stand the hypocrisy and political games religious people and entities here like to play, I'd say good chance especially with the likes of me.  You guys have better families, are better educated and while privileged WASPs are spending their hard earned money so their kids can party at college, your kids serve.  Then again the likes of me really aren't a target demographic, if it means anything if I ever had LDS neighbors and their house was being broken into i'd at least call the cops.  Hope that means something.

I would agree that the thought of those outside of the LDS church ever granting members of the Church of Jesus Christ with the respect and courtesy of being able to refer to ourselves as Christians is never going to happen.  That the rest of Christendom adopted the Nicene Creed in 325 AD does allow you some privilege over us restorationalists who came to the club rather late by your world view.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Fair Dinkum

[CV75]

23 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Last week's General Conference was the most Christian Conference in my lifetime.  (I actually predicted this in another thread) The entire feel of Conference was overtly Christ centered.  I applaud the church for going out of their way to be so Christian themed.  Although I have not done any searches to confirm, I would be curious to know if anyone else picked up on this or has done a search for the christian tag lines such as Jesus Christ, Christian, Christ, Jesus, Savior etc and compare it with previous conferences to confirm?

I'm also curious to know if we will see more members of the church referring to themselves as Christians since it seems at least to me to be politically correct for members of the church to refer to themselves as Christian now that referring to oneself as a Mormon is a victory for Satan?

I suspect the subject matter tends to be about the Lord's final mortal week and resurrection whenever Conference is held on an Easter weekend. When it isn't, I still see a "So, on this Easter weekend, let's remember [principle]" kind of statement included. Conference talks are always Christ-centered no matter the specific topics of emphasis.

The actual quote goes, "To remove the Lord’s name from the Lord’s Church is a major victory for Satan. When we discard the Savior’s name, we are subtly disregarding all that Jesus Christ did for us—even His Atonement." Referring to oneself as a Mormon is not a victory for Satan when we clearly witness that Jesus is the Christ and that we have taken His name upon us.

Also:

"When we omit His name from His Church, we are inadvertently removing Him as the central focus of our lives.

"Taking the Savior’s name upon us includes declaring and witnessing to others—through our actions and our words—that Jesus is the Christ. Have we been so afraid to offend someone who called us “Mormons” that we have failed to defend the Savior Himself, to stand up for Him even in the name by which His Church is called?"

Edited April 14, 2021 by CV75

[poptart]

2 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

I would agree that the thought of those outside of the LDS church ever granting members of the Church of Jesus Christ with the respect and courtesy of being able to refer to ourselves as Christians is never going to happen.  That the rest of Christendom adopted the Nicene Creed in 325 AD does allow you some privilege over us restorationalists who came to the club rather late by your world view.

Pft whatevs, considering how divided Catholics in the states are and the sorry state mainline Protestants are in I'm not liked by a lot of them, i'm not wealthy and conservative enough.  Also I believe in religious liberty and civil rights, something a lot of their numbers are rallying against nowadays.  
I judge Christian groups here stateside the harshest due to how i've been treated and how they act, I'd expect three times as much from them as I would say, a Buddhist, Muslim or Jew.  You also hit the nail on the head as to why, privilege.  

Unrelated, bring back luaus.  Will be a while before I go back to Hawaii.  You guys have Polynesians in the church, wish someone would make it happen soon.

[InCognitus]

2 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

I'm also curious to know if we will see more members of the church referring to themselves as Christians since it seems at least to me to be politically correct for members of the church to refer to themselves as Christian now that referring to oneself as a Mormon is a victory for Satan?

I don't think the label of "Christian" is as important as the stigma that comes from being called "non-Christian".   To be labeled non-Christian suggests that the people don't believe in Jesus Christ or salvation through him.  When others call us non-Christian, it is misleading and damaging (and perhaps intentionally so in many cases).   That's really what the Church is pushing back against.  We want to make sure our real beliefs in Jesus Christ are known and that we are not simply dismissed based on misinformation, lies, and bad labels. 

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Last week's General Conference was the most Christian Conference in my lifetime.  (I actually predicted this in another thread) The entire feel of Conference was overtly Christ centered.  I applaud the church for going out of their way to be so Christian themed.  Although I have not done any searches to confirm, other than confirmed that the vast majority of Conference addressees were in fact Christ themed,  I would be curious to know if anyone else picked up on this or has done a search for the christian tag lines such as Jesus Christ, Christian, Christ, Jesus, Savior etc and compare it with previous conferences to confirm?

I'm also curious to know if we will see more members of the church referring to themselves as Christians since it seems at least to me to be politically correct for members of the church to refer to themselves as Christian now that referring to oneself as a Mormon is a victory for Satan?..............

The LDS Church has been Christ-centered for a long time.  I can recall when I was a member of the Bay Ward, San Francisco Stake, in the 1960s, we had a huge portrait of Jesus on the wall behind the pulpit.  It had been painted by Arnold Friberg directly on the wall as a mural.  Jesus had always been the center of my own LDS experience.  Jesus is certainly the center of the Book of Mormon.  Maybe not everyone got that message until the new logo was trotted out. 

I haven't actually heard LDS members referring to themselves as "Christians," although I have seen some books and articles in the past 30 years or so which focused on that issue.  This article from UC Press is typical, Kent P. Jackson, “Are Mormons Christians? Presbyterians, Mormons, and the Question of Religious Definitions,” Nova Religio, 4/1 (2000): 52–65, online at  https://doi.org/10.1525/nr.2000.4.1.52 , and https://online.ucpress.edu/nr/article-abstract/4/1/52/70984/Are-Mormons-Christians-Presbyterians-Mormons-and?redirectedFrom=PDF .

A 1980 article emphasized that the Book of Mormon was too Christocentric -- at least in the OT portions -- and that was apparently an embarrassment to secular LDS scholars, scholars who could not read Hebrew and had no idea how to understand the Bible.   Melodie M. Charles, “The Mormon Christianizing of the Old Testament,” Sunstone, 5/6 (Nov-Dec 1980):35-39, with response from Lowell Bennion on p. 40.  That is not a new tack at all.

Complaining about being called "Mormon" making us unChristian is as ridiculous as saying that calling someone a "Methodist" makes him unChristian.  Both are illogical conclusions more suited to psywar than to reasonable discussion.

[HappyJackWagon]

If a Christian church is going to brand itself with an ad campaign, "I'm a Christian" seems to be a much better choice than "I'm a Mormon".   

Even if other Christian denominations are unwilling to accept the claim, it at least puts the horse before the cart. So, more Christ in every corner of Christianity is a good thing.

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, poptart said:

.........................

Unrelated, bring back luaus.  Will be a while before I go back to Hawaii.  You guys have Polynesians in the church, wish someone would make it happen soon.

Yeh, the Polynesian luaus in San Francisco were great.  I had never eaten poi before (tasteless), but the rest of the feast was scrumptious.  Some of the Polynesian men put on a great show with large machetes and fire.  I love to see them wear lavalavas.  Saw a guy in a formal lavalava in the Provo Temple once.  Have the luaus been prohibited?

[poptart]

17 minutes ago, InCognitus said:

I don't think the label of "Christian" is as important as the stigma that comes from being called "non-Christian".   To be labeled non-Christian suggests that the people don't believe in Jesus Christ or salvation through him.  When others call us non-Christian, it is misleading and damaging (and perhaps intentionally so in many cases).   That's really what the Church is pushing back against.  We want to make sure our real beliefs in Jesus Christ are known and that we are not simply dismissed based on misinformation, lies, and bad labels. 

 

1 minute ago, HappyJackWagon said:

If a Christian church is going to brand itself with an ad campaign, "I'm a Christian" seems to be a much better choice than "I'm a Mormon".   

Even if other Christian denominations are unwilling to accept the claim, it at least puts the horse before the cart. So, more Christ in every corner of Christianity is a good thing.

You guys are winning the religion wars, as an outsider looking in I don't see why you would want to associate with the very people who have caused you and as of late themselves a ton of grief.  Also, take a good look at non religious millenials and gen Z, while we understand religion the cultural aspects never really stuck, most of us who are unchurched/dechurched either don't care or are resentful/antagonistic to Christians here stateside.  Why not call yourselves Restorationists?  Reformists?  Something other than an already tainted label.  I get where you're coming from but with how things are, well...

Also, you're dealing with a demographic that is quite uneducated when it comes to the finer points.  We can read history, dogma and what not of any religion but the finer points that takes religious education simply aren't there.  You want the Christian label?  You're going to get the hate with it that really isn't your orgs fault.  Not my call, just my opinion.  You guys are better than most Christian based orgs here, why associate with them?  I'd have taken the hint with what happened with the Boy Scouts to distance myself.  

[HappyJackWagon]

22 minutes ago, poptart said:

 

You guys are winning the religion wars, as an outsider looking in I don't see why you would want to associate with the very people who have caused you and as of late themselves a ton of grief.  Also, take a good look at non religious millenials and gen Z, while we understand religion the cultural aspects never really stuck, most of us who are unchurched/dechurched either don't care or are resentful/antagonistic to Christians here stateside.  Why not call yourselves Restorationists?  Reformists?  Something other than an already tainted label.  I get where you're coming from but with how things are, well...

Also, you're dealing with a demographic that is quite uneducated when it comes to the finer points.  We can read history, dogma and what not of any religion but the finer points that takes religious education simply aren't there.  You want the Christian label?  You're going to get the hate with it that really isn't your orgs fault.  Not my call, just my opinion.  You guys are better than most Christian based orgs here, why associate with them?  I'd have taken the hint with what happened with the Boy Scouts to distance myself.  

Restorationist or Reformist of what? Christianity. It's a label that's been around for a couple of thousand years now. At its core it is understood what it means to be Christian. I think you may be confusing "Christianity" with "Evangelical Christians" in the United States who have less appeal right now.

[poptart]

58 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Yeh, the Polynesian luaus in San Francisco were great.  I had never eaten poi before (tasteless), but the rest of the feast was scrumptious.  Some of the Polynesian men put on a great show with large machetes and fire.  I love to see them wear lavalavas.  Saw a guy in a formal lavalava in the Provo Temple once.  Have the luaus been prohibited?

I used to eat poi and lau lau as a child, still like the latter, not so much the former.  TBH the Polynesian/Asian part of the LDS church is the biggest selling point for me, know some folks may not like to hear that but considering it was your church that actually tried to help me and offers Polynesians the chance at a world class education the mainland sure doesn't, you have my gratitude there.

No idea.

19 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Restorationist or Reformist of what? Christianity. It's a label that's been around for a couple of thousand years now. At its core it is understood what it means to be Christian. I think you may be confusing "Christianity" with "Evangelical Christians" in the United States who have less appeal right now.

Ops, my mistake I thought the former is what your referred to yourselves.  Um, no I'm not.  Thing is the rest of Christiandom in the states is either at each others throats or slowly becoming non existent.  The Lutherans are fractured, the ELCA made an alliance with the Episcopals which enraged the rest of the Lutherans here.  Also, politics (As always...)  The Baptists are even more fractured and yep, there's the Evangelicals.  I won't go there...

Anymore I'm trying to distance myself from Christian politics, you guys have been more than kind about it here and everyone already knows how I feel about it.  Kinda off topic, you might like The Benedict Option.  It's what some of the more Trad Catholic and Orthodox communities are attempting.  I doubt it'll get far, they lack resources.  The LDS church however does not.  Anyway, with all the factionalism in the religion, that's why my opinion of the LDS church is still the same, I'd keep the LDS label and distance myself.  Christianity in the states is a bit of a dumpster fire now.

Edited April 14, 2021 by poptart

[Scott Lloyd]

12 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Last week's General Conference was the most Christian Conference in my lifetime.  (I actually predicted this in another thread) The entire feel of Conference was overtly Christ centered.  I applaud the church for going out of their way to be so Christian themed.  Although I have not done any searches to confirm, other than confirmed that the vast majority of Conference addressees were in fact Christ themed,  I would be curious to know if anyone else picked up on this or has done a search for the christian tag lines such as Jesus Christ, Christian, Christ, Jesus, Savior etc and compare it with previous conferences to confirm?

I'm also curious to know if we will see more members of the church referring to themselves as Christians since it seems at least to me to be politically correct for members of the church to refer to themselves as Christian now that referring to oneself as a Mormon is a victory for Satan?

 

 

Yet another attempt to distort what President Nelson said. He said it was severing the name of Christ from the name of His Church, not “referring to oneself as a Mormon,” that is a victory for Satan. Are you really that insecure in your position that you feel you need to be deceitful?

Edited April 15, 2021 by Scott Lloyd

[bluebell]

8 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Last week's General Conference was the most Christian Conference in my lifetime.  (I actually predicted this in another thread) The entire feel of Conference was overtly Christ centered.  I applaud the church for going out of their way to be so Christian themed.  Although I have not done any searches to confirm, other than confirmed that the vast majority of Conference addressees were in fact Christ themed,  I would be curious to know if anyone else picked up on this or has done a search for the christian tag lines such as Jesus Christ, Christian, Christ, Jesus, Savior etc and compare it with previous conferences to confirm?

I'm also curious to know if we will see more members of the church referring to themselves as Christians since it seems at least to me to be politically correct for members of the church to refer to themselves as Christian now that referring to oneself as a Mormon is a victory for Satan?

 

 

Do we have some way to measure if your statement that last week's conference was the most Christian conference yet is true? 

It didn't seem any more Christian than other GC's that occurred on Easter to me.

[Scott Lloyd]

26 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Do we have some way to measure if your statement that last week's conference was the most Christian conference yet is true? 

It didn't seem any more Christian than other GC's that occurred on Easter to me.

This might be a case of confirmation bias. The desire to see the Church leaders act “more [generically] Christian” heightens one’s awareness of generically Christian expressions in their discourses, even though the conference is pretty much typical in that respect. 

Edited April 15, 2021 by Scott Lloyd

[MiserereNobis]

When someone asks me my religion, I don't say "Christian," I say "Catholic." When I hear someone say, "Christian," I immediately assume they are protestant. Just an interesting observation from my experience.

There are Christian groups out there who claim that Catholics aren't Christian. In fact, a lot of groups that call you guys a cult also call us a cult.

That's why I'm on this board, for inter-cult dialogue 😁

[Fair Dinkum]

15 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Yet another attempt to distort what President Nelson said. He said it was severing the name of Christ from the name of His Church, not “referring to oneself as a Mormon,” that is a victory for Satan. Are you really that insecure in your position that you feel you need to be deceitful?

Really?  I guess that's why the we still have the Mormon Tabernacle Choir,  Mormon.org, Mormon Newsroom and F.A.I.R. Mormon and why virtually every active member of the church continues to refer to themselves as a Mormon, oh wait none of that is true.  Mormon has been relegated to the trash heap and become a nasty word except when combined with the Book. Anyone referring to themselves as a Mormon will be quickly corrected.  Yes I've actually had this happen to me, when an elderly sister corrected me recently.  In fact this board is one of the few places that continues to use the term Mormon in its name, and I suspect that too will change as well.

[Fair Dinkum]

Ok I now have hard evidence that my impressions were correct in my assessment that this April conference was the most Christian, Jesus Christ, themed Conference in many years.   Honestly I'm surprised by the push back.  I would have thought that this would be a good thing.

Jesus Christ themed talkes in:

Apr 2021: 21

Oct 2020: 7

Apr 2020: 10

Oct 2019: 7

Apr 2019: 8

Oct 2018: 15

Apr 2018: 11

Oct 2017: 15

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/topics/jesus-christ?lang=eng

Edited April 15, 2021 by Fair Dinkum

[Fair Dinkum]

16 hours ago, bluebell said:

Do we have some way to measure if your statement that last week's conference was the most Christian conference yet is true? 

It didn't seem any more Christian than other GC's that occurred on Easter to me.

Yes...see my most recent post.  An almost 300% increase in Jesus Christ themed addresses over last Octobers conference

Edited April 15, 2021 by Fair Dinkum

[OGHoosier]

32 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Really?  I guess that's why the we still have the Mormon Tabernacle Choir,  Mormon.org, Mormon Newsroom and F.A.I.R. Mormon and why virtually every active member of the church continues to refer to themselves as a Mormon, oh wait none of that is true.  Mormon has been relegated to the trash heap and become a nasty word except when combined with the Book. Anyone referring to themselves as a Mormon will be quickly corrected.  Yes I've actually had this happen to me, when an elderly sister corrected me recently.  In fact this board is one of the few places that continues to use the term Mormon in its name, and I suspect that too will change as well.

That's an equivocation. You're referring to the praxis of not referring to ourselves as Mormon and using that praxis as proof that "referring to ourselves as Mormon" is the same thing as "a victory for Satan." Those things aren't equivalent. @Scott Lloyd's point stands. 

[Fair Dinkum]

10 minutes ago, OGHoosier said:

That's an equivocation. You're referring to the praxis of not referring to ourselves as Mormon and using that praxis as proof that "referring to ourselves as Mormon" is the same thing as "a victory for Satan." Those things aren't equivalent. @Scott Lloyd's point stands. 

Semantics, the proof is in the pudding. 

Quote

Nelson said. “And if we allow nicknames to be used and adopt or even sponsor those nicknames ourselves, he is offended.”

 https://apnews.com/article/cae38cf6254442ffb4a608b4a8fcf334

Edited April 15, 2021 by Fair Dinkum

[OGHoosier]

18 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Semantics, the proof is in the pudding.

I'm generally fond of Wittgenstein, the curt dismissal of "semantics" won't work on me. 

President Nelson understands that a multitude of small actions constitute a larger movement, and thus deemphasizing the name "Mormon" advances the general cause to which we ought to be dedicated. You've decided to make a reductio ad absurdum out of it, which requires you to connect two principles more closely together than they are for the punch line to hit home. @Scott Lloyd's point stands. 

[Fair Dinkum]

7 minutes ago, OGHoosier said:

I'm generally fond of Wittgenstein, the curt dismissal of "semantics" won't work on me. 

President Nelson understands that a multitude of small actions constitute a larger movement, and thus deemphasizing the name "Mormon" advances the general cause to which we ought to be dedicated. You've decided to make a reductio ad absurdum out of it, which requires you to connect two principles more closely together than they are for the punch line to hit home. @Scott Lloyd's point stands. 

Oh Brother. 🙄 Now you've become pedantic.  Read the article and acknowledge what has actually taken place since President Nelson's address. The use of the word Mormon as a descriptor of ones membership in the church has shriveled and died since that day when he declared that the use of Mormon was forboden.    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2018/10/the-correct-name-of-the-church?lang=eng

Quote

What’s in a name or, in this case, a nickname? When it comes to nicknames of the Church, such as the “LDS Church,” the “Mormon Church,” or the “Church of the Latter-day Saints,” the most important thing in those names is the absence of the Savior’s name. To remove the Lord’s name from the Lord’s Church is a major victory for Satan. When we discard the Savior’s name, we are subtly disregarding all that Jesus Christ did for us—even His Atonement.

 

[bluebell]

57 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Yes...see my most recent post.  An almost 300% increase in Jesus Christ themed addresses over last Octobers conference

Can we compare it to the last conference that occurred on Easter weekend?

[Scott Lloyd]

54 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Ok I now have hard evidence that my impressions were correct in my assessment that this April conference was the most Christian, Jesus Christ, themed Conference in many years.   Honestly I'm surprised by the push back.  I would have thought that this would be a good thing.

Jesus Christ themed talked in:

Apr 2021: 21

Oct 2020: 7

Apr 2020: 10

Oct 2019: 7

Apr 2019: 8

Oct 2018: 15

Apr 2018: 11

Oct 2017: 15

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/topics/jesus-christ?lang=eng

I suspect your criteria for what constitutes a “Jesus Christ-themed” general conference talk are too subjective for you to declare you have “hard evidence.” 
 

This exercise strikes me as straining at a gnat. To me, any discourse discussing His gospel — the Restored Gospel — is a talk on Jesus Christ. I don’t apply a filter based on consistency with generic Protestant dogma to regard it as such.