Status of church

[Fether]

2 hours ago, Rain said:

So they don't go from room to room?  Just up in the attic? 

Because if that's the case it wouldn't even phase me either.

I don't want people to be hurting with the economy.  I don't want people losing jobs.  If you are describing what I'm envisioning it just makes sense in a covid world to not overly worry about putting up the solar. 

Now in my husband's last job there were over 100 people in the same room all day long every day that would be different.  

 

That’s my point really. My experience has taught me that this is not that much different from normal flu season. Only this time there is this layer of virtue signaling attached to it via mask wearing and vaccines.

Why were we never worried about getting annual flu vaccines as we are now. Flu is just as dangerous for the elderly and those with pre-existing medical conditions, yet it isn’t till now that there is this social pride in getting vaccinated.

Now if my area is some bastion of viral safety, and the world really is burning down around us, I would understand the social push… but my experience says otherwise.

Again, I will get the vaccine… but I have the same urgency in getting it as I do all other flu vaccines (maybe less actually because so don’t want to get sick from it)

Edited July 25, 2021 by Fether

[Fether]

3 hours ago, Ragerunner said:

After all the fasting and worldwide praying that has taken place. I find it interesting that so many members and local leaders have openly rebelled against the vaccine. Even after the Prophet went as far as to say this was the answer to our prayers and a Godsend.

I guess conspiracies, miss information, anti vaccinations and politics take priority for many.

I personally believe that our unwillingness to heed the prophet’s council will result in a very prolonged pain and suffering in our society at the hands of this virus.

From my experience, it isn’t rebellion, rather apathy. The people I know aren’t getting it because they don’t see the need, not because they are rebelling.

And just a reminder, there have been more confirmed lies from the official sources than confirmed truth.

There was this video on YouTube months and months ago comparing footage put out by news channels and video from locals where the footage was taken. The video has since been taken down, which is frustrating. It was about a 30 minute video. Some of the content I remember included:

- News story showing a video of people standing in line that wrapped around the block so they could get PPE. Turned out that video was from years prior right before a large storm that was supposed to come through

 - News story showing a Video of doctors in hazmat suits treating Covid patients. The video actually came from a prior outbreak of Ebola or SARS (can’t remember which one)

- News story showing a an empty ambulance parking lot and talking about how there isn’t enough ambulances for all the cases. The next video was a guy in the local neighborhood showing the parking lot and it was full of ambulances that no one was driving

- News story showing a tents being set up in the street to care for all the Covid patients, doctors in Hazmat suits walking in and out. Then another video showed the same street with the same tents… all of them empty.

News sources make money when there is fear. So that is what it seems to me. Lots of fear mongering. Not saying it’s not true, but the sources that may be trying to keep us safe are also blatantly lying to us to keep ratings

Edited July 25, 2021 by Fether

[The Nehor]

29 minutes ago, Fether said:

That’s my point really. My experience has taught me that this is not that much different from normal flu season. Only this time there is this layer of virtue signaling attached to it via mask wearing and vaccines.

Why were we never worried about getting annual flu vaccines as we are now. Flu is just as dangerous for the elderly and those with pre-existing medical conditions, yet it isn’t till now that there is this social pride in getting vaccinated.

Now if my area is some bastion of viral safety, and the world really is burning down around us, I would understand the social push… but my experience says otherwise.

Again, I will get the vaccine… but I have the same urgency in getting it as I do all other flu vaccines (maybe less actually because so don’t want to get sick from it)

So the data showing that there are more cases and deaths all over the world than any flu season mean nothing to you? How does your experience say otherwise? Are unable to integrate data that is not from your local area?

Edited July 25, 2021 by The Nehor

[Fether]

10 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

So the data showing that there are more cases and deaths all over the world than any flu season mean nothing to you? How does your experience say otherwise? Are unable to integrate data that is not from your local area?

I’ll happily accept it all. The only data I struggle integrating is data from sources that have been caught lying

[Peacefully]

7 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I've had my first AstraZeneca jab. It was dreadful. I got it Sunday morning before church. After church, I drove 240km to speak at a fireside, taking one of my former Young Men with me as a companion. Halfway home, I started freezing. I turned the heating in the car up till it was blasting, but still I shivered. (My poor companion! He just patiently roasted.)

I took my temperature when I got home: 39.6C. By this point, I ached from head to toe, with every muscle in my body sore to touch. I tried to sleep but was so delusional all night that I couldn't tell if I was awake or asleep, dreaming or mad. Twenty-four hours after it started, my fever broke, and all the achiness went away too.

I thought I was fine, so I went to work the next morning. Around midday, I think, the headache came on. Debilitating. It came and went for two weeks, decreasing in frequency as time went on. My nose also bled for two weeks but not like a normal nosebleed. Instead, I was constantly blowing out huge clots of blood. Not fun. And my injection site is actually still mildly sore.

But if this is how my body reacted to just the Covid-19 spike protein, imagine how it might react to that same protein on the outside of millions of rapidly multiplying viable viruses that are simultaneously attacking my lungs. No thanks. I'm with Pres Nelson on this one: these vaccines are a 'literal godsend'.

I had some of the same side-effects ( no nose bleeds) and I had the same thought about the possibility that COVID could be worse for me than for some others. 

[secondclasscitizen]

Our high councilor spoke briefly in sacrament mtg today. Said the area auth lifted all restrictions and next week we are back to normal. No one in my ward has worn a mask in several months except whoever  is doing the sacrament. 
 

In two weeks my stake is hosting  a super spreader at all it’s buildings - in person stake conference. Our area had 1500 daily new COVID cases just two days ago. In two weeks it will easily be north of 6000 as it has been doubling by the week. That is some awesome compounding right there. I feel this decision to hold in person conference is definitely inspired.
 

Most people here are not sweating a flu that has a 98% survival rate. My whole family got it last year to include myself. No drama and that includes two elderly people with high bp and the other with emphysema. No hospitalizations. 
 

Amazing we all got it despite following mask, distancing and everything else.

I do have two friends who nearly died from it. One is a 300 pounder with diabetes and the other is a smoker. 
 

if I can opt out the mask this time I will. Not sure on the jab yet. COVID for me wasn’t bad enough for me to get an experimental drug.

Edited July 25, 2021 by secondclasscitizen
Spelling

[strappinglad]

3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

There are plenty of letters left in the Greek alphabet

Would it be safe to say that by mid March next year we will be seeing the pi variant ? 

Around here we have discovered an extra reason to wear a mask. The smoke from the forest fires. It makes for a very orange moon. 

Edited July 25, 2021 by strappinglad

[The Nehor]

Here in Texas we are in a weird situation. The governor is unlikely to do any lockdowns unless the situation gets PR nightmare bad but the schools are struggling to figure out what is going to happen.

In church we had a metric that was supposed to determine when we went back to the two hour bloc. We got there and now the number is back above that metric and we should be going back to either one hour or virtual but were told not to. Cases are shooting up and our county’s hospitals are at 97% capacity. Exciting times.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Fether said:

I’ll happily accept it all. The only data I struggle integrating is data from sources that have been caught lying

Do you mean anyone who used guesswork about what was needed to try to prevent spread and anyone who changed recommendations due to getting more information and anyone who was honestly wrong without an attempt at deceit? If so, no one is trustworthy.

[Fether]

11 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Do you mean anyone who used guesswork about what was needed to try to prevent spread and anyone who changed recommendations due to getting more information and anyone who was honestly wrong without an attempt at deceit? If so, no one is trustworthy.

It’s a good thing that’s not what I meant.

[Calm]

5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Americans, Conservatives, and Mormons are not the only people opposing restrictions and vaccines. 

Of course not, it is worldwide.  I have always pointed out when having conversations elsewhere that the US doesn’t have a corner on this stuff, though it is somewhat unusual in that we have had the option of having the vaccine and are refusing it to the extent millions iirc of doses are going to be thrown away.  That we have deprived other countries by moving to the front of the line rather than promoting equal opportunity and then wasted many of our opportunities is something we need to accept responsibility for.  Are there any other places that have an excess of vaccines available?
 

 But I am curious if the antivaxxers and anti maskers subsets of those groups in our faith community are large enough to make a difference to our overall life span given the impact so far on the lifespan of Americans overall or if the percentage of youth and those who are listening to the prophet’s enthusiasm if they are not particularly enthusiastic themselves as well as those provaccine without any prompting will offset those in the Church refusing the vaccine due to listening to naysayers rather than their doctors (if their doctor advises them not to, it is reasonable for them to refuse imo…assuming they haven’t doctor shopped to get one who would back them).  Would also be interested in the impact of liberal antivaxxers, but at least in the states (which I think is the only place we might be able to get this kind of info…maybe Canada as well) that tends to be a smaller group in our faith and so will have less of an impact on life span, I am guessing. 
 

Anyone know about any data showing political tendencies of Latter-day Saints outside of the US?  Or lifespans of Saints vs other groups in other countries?  That would be very interesting to know. 

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Fether said:

My experience has taught me that this is not that much different from normal flu season.

Then why the drop in the American average life span?

[Calm]

2 hours ago, strappinglad said:

Would it be safe to say that by mid March next year we will be seeing the pi variant ? 

Around here we have discovered an extra reason to wear a mask. The smoke from the forest fires. It makes for a very orange moon. 

Saw a map of the extent of fires and smoke. Very sad. 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, secondclasscitizen said:

No drama and that includes two elderly people with high bp and the other with emphysema. No hospitalizations… Amazing we all got it despite following mask, distancing and everything else.

Severity appears to be tied to viral load…or was last time I looked at the science on this. That would imply since masking, distancing, and everything else tends to lower viral loads…less virus gets through…that it would be expected in areas of higher compliance (not just mandates, but compliance) there would be more mild cases than in areas lacking.

Maybe someone who is more uptodate on viral load impact can confirm or correct.

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Fether said:

there have been more confirmed lies from the official sources than confirmed truth.

CFR please

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Fether said:

Flu is just as dangerous for the elderly and those with pre-existing medical conditions,

CFR please

[The Nehor]

12 minutes ago, Fether said:

It’s a good thing that’s not what I meant.

Just making sure.

4 hours ago, Fether said:

And just a reminder, there have been more confirmed lies from the official sources than confirmed truth.

Nope.

[Calm]

5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

There has also been strong resistance to COVID vaccination among BIPOC groups despite the fact that they have experienced greater negative effects from the pandemic. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2103104
 

This is more understandable to me given the history.  Hopefully outreach efforts using sources these communities trust will have a major impact. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Calm

[Calm]

5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

It’s the delta variant wreaking havoc now, but we’re just getting started. There are plenty of letters left in the Greek alphabet. 

If they are going in order, I have seen reports up to lambda…which is not a nice variant unfortunately  

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/09/covid-heres-what-you-need-to-know-the-lambda-variant.html

If interested:

https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/health/covid-19-variants-of-concern-and-variants-of-interest/article35301681.ece

CDC’s version:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/variant-info.html

[Calm]

6 hours ago, Fether said:

I’ll happily accept it all.

Then why are you still equating it to the flu? Serious question. 
 

Perhaps you mean the Spanish flu of 1918?

Edited July 26, 2021 by Calm

[Calm]

Quote

According to preliminary weekly data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) (as of April 26, 2021), 3,427,321 people died from all causes in 2020.

In comparison, 2,854,838 people died in 2019, meaning at least 572,000 more people died in 2020 than 2019 according to preliminary estimates. Using the estimate of the 2020 population from the Census Bureau, the death rate in 2020 was 10.4 deaths per 1,000, the highest death rate since 1943. However, the recent population estimate does not incorporate the results of the 2020 Census.

For context, the most recent estimates from the Census Bureau, which are from 2017, projected that there would be 2.75 million deaths in 2020, accounting for an aging population. The Census Bureau did not expect the nation to reach 3.4 million deaths until 2035 or 2036.

https://usafacts.org/articles/preliminary-us-death-statistics-more-deaths-in-2020-than-2019-coronavirus-age-flu/

Bolded by me. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

4 hours ago, Fether said:

Only this time there is this layer of virtue signaling attached to it via mask wearing and vaccines.

Are you suggesting that listening to the living prophets and following their example is not a virtue?

[Fether]

12 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Are you suggesting that listening to the living prophets and following their example is not a virtue?

Nope

[Hamba Tuhan]

35 minutes ago, Calm said:

Anyone know about any data showing political tendencies of Latter-day Saints outside of the US?

I don't, unfortunately. But the political landscape here is so different to the one in America that I'm not sure how to even compare them. The people I know best at church would be evenly split between centre-right and centre-left.

More importantly, the approach to the pandemic here simply hasn't been politicised. Our national and sub-national governments are all over the political spectrum, from a centre-right/right coalition to a centre-left/left coalition, but mostly they've put aside their differences and worked on this together. Major decisions have all been unanimous. There has definitely been some sniping amongst various government leaders, but that hasn't necessarily followed party lines.

The one thing that I have noticed is that there is a direct correlation between members who closely follow American political reporting and those whom I have heard express vaccine hesitancy. To me, it feels like we've been subjected to two sources of infection from the US: outbreaks of the actual virus and outbreaks of heavily politicised misinformation.

I know the people who support what's going on don't care, but in my corner of the world, America's standing has taken a real hit as we've watched what feels like a clown-filled circus play out there. That would be the consensus here right across the broad middle of the political spectrum, not including the far-left and far-right fringes. It's sad.

[Hamba Tuhan]

2 hours ago, Fether said:

Nope

Cool. Cos that is what I hope all members do regardless of their personal political preferences:

'As appropriate opportunities become available, the Church urges its members, employees and missionaries to be good global citizens and help quell the pandemic by safeguarding themselves and others through immunization' (emphasis added).

Edited July 26, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan