Status of church

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

It's weird that stake presidents are not following Area Authorities, in the face of members who also can see what the AA has directed.

Does that mean that no one has to follow what SP's have directed?

Pretty weird example for the members!

I’d be very surprised if the AA’s haven’t informed SP’s that they have a say in how they proceed getting back to normal. 

[Amulek]

On 4/9/2021 at 11:29 AM, Amulek said:

Our area leaders recently sent out guidelines from the church about how to potentially move back to full-meeting attendance. We'll be discussing it in bishopric this week, but it sounds like the move to more in-person attendance is definitely on the horizon. 

One month later and we are now getting ready to go back to in-person meetings for both hours, beginning next week - though we will drop back if hospitalization rates rise.

We will continue to provide broadcasts / virtual meetings for those who are high risk or who may simply feel uncomfortable coming back in person just yet. And at home Sacrament continues to be authorized for those not attending in person as well.

The restrictions on building usage have been lifted, and girls camp is now officially back on as a full-stake activity (there was much rejoicing).

We are having an extra ward council meeting this week to make sure we've got everything in place, but we have been planning for this all along and I think there are only a couple of holes in primary and sunday school which will need to be plugged. Shouldn't take too long to hammer that out.

 

[rongo]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

I’d be very surprised if the AA’s haven’t informed SP’s that they have a say in how they proceed getting back to normal. 

While it can be frustrating, I think leader roulette is overall a good thing. It means, in this case, that local conditions are controlled by local leaders instead of a one-size-fits-all approach from a different area. We're on the outlier end of the roulette, but if we do get back to normal soon, then all will be forgiven.  

I wonder how much of the impetus had to do with the email that showed that could have already been open for many months all along.  

[rongo]

On 5/10/2021 at 4:35 PM, rongo said:

While it can be frustrating, I think leader roulette is overall a good thing. It means, in this case, that local conditions are controlled by local leaders instead of a one-size-fits-all approach from a different area. We're on the outlier end of the roulette, but if we do get back to normal soon, then all will be forgiven.  

I wonder how much of the impetus had to do with the email that showed that could have already been open for many months all along.  

We officially got word that we are going back to full in-person church next week (the 23rd) --- meaning 2nd hour. The letter also said that streaming of meetings will end in August for either sacrament or 2nd hour, so it won't be an indefinite option for people to stay home forever. 

It definitely looks like our stake president got smoked out on this by the inadvertently forwarded email showing that the Area Seventy expected everyone to already be fully back.  

[provoman]

My Stake just announced start June at home sacrement requires Bishops permission and meetings will be broadcast for "vulnerable".

[Peacefully]

Back to 2 hour block today. Masks optional (only a handful of people wore them). No social distancing. No sitting every other pew. Sacrament passed down the rows (those passing sacrament still wore masks). No more blanket permission to have sacrament at home. Primary broke out into individual classes. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Peacefully

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, Peacefully said:

No sitting every other pew.

I am so looking forward to this, but our government won't allow it yet.

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I am so looking forward to this, but our government won't allow it yet.

It's nice to be back to normal, but I admit it's weird having people sitting so close to me now.  Not because I'm worried about covid but just because I got used to having so much space around me (and I prefer it that way, regardless of the event).

[Hamba Tuhan]

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It's nice to be back to normal, but I admit it's weird having people sitting so close to me now.

I spoke to one of our former missionaries from Finland for an hour and a half yesterday. They still haven't gone back to in-person church at all, but he said the Finns have been laughing at the 1.5m rule for social distancing. 'Why do they want us to be so close?' he said everyone was asking. When restrictions are finally lifted, everyone plans to go back to their usual 5m buffer zone, he said.

[Ragerunner]

We live in an area where Covid Delta is really spreading rapidly. Some of the hospitals are now seeing more Covid patients than ever before. My family and I are fully vaccinated but about 60% of our ward is not. 
We now have no safety measures in place at church or the temple, beyond masking for those doing the sacrament and a general statement that those that are unvaccinated should wear masks and social distance (the honor system). We only have about 10 members wearing a mask. It’s clear the honor system doesn’t mean much at church or the temple.

We are starting to see more outbreaks from church and church activities. Yet there is no effort to slow the spread, sickness and growing hospital rates.

What are others experiences?

 

[Ragerunner]

I might add I really feel for those that have or are dealing with heart issues, cancer, asthma, immunocompromised, etc. Going to church or the temple has become a roll of the dice. 
I find it interesting that the prophet asked us to do all we can to reduce Covid in our area, yet we seem to be doing all we can to increase Covid in our area.

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, Ragerunner said:

Going to church or the temple has become a roll of the dice. 

Yep…my niece who restricts herself from everything but church because she is immune compromised and no vaccine as she and shots have a troubled history, picked it up at church at a Primary activity….she thankfully appears back to normal after 2 weeks. My brother who caught it from her (vaccinated Pfizer, has Hashimoto’s, 67) was slowly getting worse, but took cocktail and now is back at work though tired still. That one church contact infected over 30 people though…half kids, all mild but those two, thank goodness, so far. Iirc, 5 other families at church were believed to be infected the same day. 
 

[Ragerunner]

12 minutes ago, Calm said:

Yep…my niece who restricts herself from everything but church because she is immune compromised and no vaccine as she and shots have a troubled history, picked it up at church at a Primary activity….she thankfully appears back to normal after 2 weeks. My brother who caught it from her (vaccinated Pfizer, has Hashimoto’s, 67) was slowly getting worse, but took cocktail and now is back at work though tired still. That one church contact infected over 30 people though…half kids, all mild but those two, thank goodness, so far. Iirc, 5 other families at church were believed to be infected the same day. 
 

I know we have seen several posts from friends and family in Utah asking for prayers for many loved ones and friends who are now in the hospital. Most seem to survive but not without a lot of suffering and long term health issues.

We are also seeing go fund me request to try and help pay for the big medical bills that comes with Covid hospitalization and loss of work.

I am not sure we’re the church is headed with this approach. I hope winter doesn’t bring an even bigger surprise. If we are not thoughtful about this we may finally unleash a strain that can’t be contained. 

[Raingirl]

1 hour ago, Ragerunner said:

We live in an area where Covid Delta is really spreading rapidly. Some of the hospitals are now seeing more Covid patients than ever before. My family and I are fully vaccinated but about 60% of our ward is not. 
We now have no safety measures in place at church or the temple, beyond masking for those doing the sacrament and a general statement that those that are unvaccinated should wear masks and social distance (the honor system). We only have about 10 members wearing a mask. It’s clear the honor system doesn’t mean much at church or the temple.

We are starting to see more outbreaks from church and church activities. Yet there is no effort to slow the spread, sickness and growing hospital rates.

What are others experiences?

 

I am so frustrated with people who won’t vaccinate. I’m sure I’ll get blasted for saying this, but it’s selfish and ignorant. 

My ward recently fully re-opened, but I haven’t gone back yet.  With the Delta variant so highly transmissible, I don’t feel safe. 
 

I also continue to work from home. My employer isn’t bringing employees back to the office until after Labor Day. Even then, I won’t be returning, as my boss decided months ago that I should permanently work from home due to the combination of medical issues and Covid.  
 

I continue to mask and take other precautions.  With so many irresponsible people out there, and the lack of vaccine access in much of the world, I just don’t think we’re out of the woods yet. 

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Ragerunner said:

I might add I really feel for those that have or are dealing with heart issues, cancer, asthma, immunocompromised, etc. Going to church or the temple has become a roll of the dice. 
I find it interesting that the prophet asked us to do all we can to reduce Covid in our area, yet we seem to be doing all we can to increase Covid in our area.

Temple closed for renovation ( my old brain wanted ironically to spell out "revelation"- "Temple closed for relevation"- really really ironic slip there- 🤨) - we all wore masks when it was required- and now it has been RE-required- I don't know anyone who has not received both shots- and though we seem to be going well we are now worried about the endless parade of varients that will follow, thanks to those who have not been vaccinated.

Fun fun fun

It's just sad

[Fether]

1 hour ago, Raingirl said:

I am so frustrated with people who won’t vaccinate. I’m sure I’ll get blasted for saying this, but it’s selfish and ignorant

As someone who isn’t vaccinated… you are probably right. Particularly the ignorance part. I only see what I see. I had a coworker that used my laptop almost every day. One week he didn’t show up. Turned out he was in the ER with Covid (he did recover). No one else in the office got Covid despite us not having any masks and doing minimal cleaning exercises. Later, Covid went through my family, my wife was the only one with symptoms, which were mild. I don’t know anyone that had serious symptoms aside from the one co-worker and I don’t know anyone that knows anyone that died (that I know of at least). Everyone I know who got vaccinated had adverse reaction, My co-worker’s wife had such a severe reaction that they were invited to the CDC in Atlanta to figure out what the issue was.

So yes, I’m ignorant of what’s really going on. My experience has taught me that Covid is just like all the other strains and that the vaccine is worst.

I dont particularly trust news outlets. They are all biased (both left and right leaning). The current US medical direct has given mixed messages and has been caught lying about direction he has given.

my local medical authorities are the closer to the situations here and give regular updated stats.

Total Pop: 250,000

Total cases to date: 30,500

Total Deaths to date: 285

Currently hospitalized: 50

 

 

[The Nehor]

7 minutes ago, Fether said:

So yes, I’m ignorant of what’s really going on. My experience has taught me that Covid is just like all the other strains and that the vaccine is worst.

I dont particularly trust news outlets. They are all biased (both left and right leaning). The current US medical direct has given mixed messages and has been caught lying about direction he has given.

People who only believe in something when it personally impacts them in a negative way are the ones showing up in hospitals with Covid saying that they are willing to take the vaccine now and are told it is too late. Anecdotal information is good but should be run against the larger realities and the broad data we have available and can use to calculate risks and trade offs. The risks of severe reactions from vaccination are incredibly slim when compared to the risk of dying from Covid and when you add in the risks of long-term damage from Covid even if it doesn’t kill you the odds skew even further.

Hopefully the long-lasting effects of Covid will fade with time but if they don’t and if some of the damage we have seen doesn’t repair itself we may have a slow burn health crisis going for decades with impact on quantity and quality of life.

[mfbukowski]

25 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

People who only believe in something when it personally impacts them in a negative way are the ones showing up in hospitals with Covid saying that they are willing to take the vaccine now and are told it is too late. Anecdotal information is good but should be run against the larger realities and the broad data we have available and can use to calculate risks and trade offs. The risks of severe reactions from vaccination are incredibly slim when compared to the risk of dying from Covid and when you add in the risks of long-term damage from Covid even if it doesn’t kill you the odds skew even further.

Hopefully the long-lasting effects of Covid will fade with time but if they don’t and if some of the damage we have seen doesn’t repair itself we may have a slow burn health crisis going for decades with impact on quantity and quality of life.

It's an interesting proof of evolution in both the deaths of the unvaccinated and the survival by mutation of the virus.

I think that once the unvaccinated die off, and we keep making vaccines for the variants, perhaps literally we will be fee to breathe unimpaired someday 🤨😆

[Fether]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

People who only believe in something when it personally impacts them in a negative way are the ones showing up in hospitals with Covid saying that they are willing to take the vaccine now and are told it is too late. Anecdotal information is good but should be run against the larger realities and the broad data we have available and can use to calculate risks and trade offs. The risks of severe reactions from vaccination are incredibly slim when compared to the risk of dying from Covid and when you add in the risks of long-term damage from Covid even if it doesn’t kill you the odds skew even further.

Hopefully the long-lasting effects of Covid will fade with time but if they don’t and if some of the damage we have seen doesn’t repair itself we may have a slow burn health crisis going for decades with impact on quantity and quality of life.

I agree completely. I intend on getting it, but that is where the selfishness comes in. I’ve got better things to do. Not saying that the things I have to do are better, but again, it’s hard to see it as a genuine concern with everything that has been recorded and revealed from news and non-news sources. Lies and manipulations from the medical leaders of the government and my personal local experience that doesn’t come close to what is being shown on TV (especially considering my specific city never enacted any really quarantine, mask requirements, or business restrictions).

Do I want to go get a vaccine that is going to make me sicker than the actual disease ever made me or anyone I know? No… not really… but I will eventually.

 

EDIT:

Side note: another personal experience I have. I run a solar sales office that sells solar over the phone. Our main market is CA. We worked full time through all the lockdowns. I can think of only 3-5 people that refused to get solar because of Covid. Everyone else we spoke to that refused getting solar because they didn’t have a job.

To this day, I have called 3,000+ people since the pandemic broke out and only 3-5 have been concerned about COVID itself. Most of which in CA. I have an office full of call center employees with the same story. Our installer has also grown immensely over the last year and was doing 2,000+ installs every month.

Im not saying Covid is fake. Nor am I even suggesting there is evidence of it. Just sharing my experience to paint the picture for many of the people in the US that haven’t been vaccinated yet.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Fether

[The Nehor]

44 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

It's an interesting proof of evolution in both the deaths of the unvaccinated and the survival by mutation of the virus.

I think that once the unvaccinated die off, and we keep making vaccines for the variants, perhaps literally we will be fee to breathe unimpaired someday 🤨😆

Edited July 25, 2021 by The Nehor

[InCognitus]

8 minutes ago, Fether said:

Do I want to go get a vaccine that is going to make me sicker than the actual disease ever made me or anyone I know? No… not really… but I will eventually.

Sicker than the actual disease?  I guess it depends on who you know and what happened to them, and how you want it all to play out with those around you. 

I received the Moderna vaccine back in early April and early May.  With the first dose I had no side effects at all other than a sore arm.  With the second dose I had a light fever and chills for 24 hours, and that's all.  No big deal. 

Compare that to my sister who never got vaccinated (she was in denial about the whole thing) and she contracted the Delta variant and started showing symptoms a week ago Thursday, and she has had a 101 to 103 degree temperature all week (at least five days now), and she's still not done with it.  She has also infected her husband (who is not doing well), several of her adult children and their families including her 12 year old granddaughter, and our 85 year old parents.  All of those cases can be traced back to my sister who wasn't concerned about any of this kind of thing.  None of them are out of the woods yet, and who knows how long some of the symptoms will linger or how it will play out with them.

Of course there's no guarantee that the vaccine is going to keep you from getting it, but in my mom's case (who was the only one other than myself listed above that was vaccinated), her symptoms are nothing compared to the others.  She is aware that she has COVID (she got tested), but she doesn't have a fever, she only has some congestion like a cold (but that could be allergies).  

So it depends on which path you want to take, and what risks you want to take with those around you.   You may also want to consider how other family members might view your actions if you are the one responsible for infecting family and friends that may be at high risk.  It's all up to you.  

[Calm]

32 minutes ago, Fether said:

Do I want to go get a vaccine that is going to make me sicker than the actual disease ever made me or anyone I know? No… not really… but I will eventually.

Side effects usually last 2 or 3 days from what I am hearing. Covid when mild last a few days to week, moderate at least two weeks.  Long Covid last months, maybe years. 
 

If you wait until the incidence is up in your community, you will have 5 weeks minimum before the vaccination is fully effective.  A lot can change in five weeks in terms of infection rate. I have heard of a number who have caught it during that time period of shot to full immunity, so don’t assume you will be able to predict safely.

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

I agree completely. I intend on getting it, but that is where the selfishness comes in. I’ve got better things to do. Not saying that the things I have to do are better, but again, it’s hard to see it as a genuine concern with everything that has been recorded and revealed from news and non-news sources. Lies and manipulations from the medical leaders of the government and my personal local experience that doesn’t come close to what is being shown on TV (especially considering my specific city never enacted any really quarantine, mask requirements, or business restrictions).

Do I want to go get a vaccine that is going to make me sicker than the actual disease ever made me or anyone I know? No… not really… but I will eventually.

 

EDIT:

Side note: another personal experience I have. I run a solar sales office that sells solar over the phone. Our main market is CA. We worked full time through all the lockdowns. I can think of only 3-5 people that refused to get solar because of Covid. Everyone else we spoke to that refused getting solar because they didn’t have a job.

To this day, I have called 3,000+ people since the pandemic broke out and only 3-5 have been concerned about COVID itself. Most of which in CA. I have an office full of call center employees with the same story

Im not saying Covid is fake. Nor am I even suggesting there is evidence of it. Just sharing my experience to paint the picture for many of the people in the US that haven’t been vaccinated yet.

As a type 1 diabetic with kidney issues who took a lot of covid precautions I am lost as to why someone would refuse to get solar because of covid.  Is most of the work actually done inside the house?

Edited July 25, 2021 by Rain

[Calm]

28 minutes ago, InCognitus said:

ou may also want to consider how other family members might view your actions if you are the one responsible for infecting family and friends that may be at high risk.  It's all up to you. 

Or how you might feel if someone you know dies because of an infection they likely got from you.  I can’t imagine living with that shame myself, knowing there was a good chance I could have prevented that death.

It is like telling people to wear seatbelts. I am an excellent driver and have never been in an accident of my making (never even got a parking ticket).  Been driving almost 50 years and probably have 20 years left, so unless I get sloppy there is a good chance I will never cause a dangerous accident.  Been in one accident as a teen with my grandmother who shouldn’t have been driving, but no one wanted to impose on her freedom…and I got as a teen to live with headaches and tinnitus every day for the rest of my life because of their ‘kindness’, can’t kiss my husband standing up because means arching my neck back, and who knows what else.  I refuse to be a passenger with unsafe drivers nowadays.  
 

So I could stop wearing a seatbelt myself or not worry about others. But I choose to because the discomfort of seat belts (and I do hate them as I hate any constriction) is nothing to how I would feel if I injured or killed someone.  And I can control my driving, but can’t control others driving around me. 
 

I really don’t understand the hesitation of healthy people who are very willing to do other, more inconvenient things for comfort or safety. 

Edited July 25, 2021 by Calm

[InCognitus]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

Or how you might feel if someone you know dies because of an infection they likely got from you.  I can’t imagine living with that shame myself, knowing there was a good chance I could have prevented that death.

Yes, yes, yes.  I didn't go that far in my post because I sure hope and pray that I don't have to deal with that situation for any of the people that I listed in my response.