Received a deseret book catalogue - it turns me off

[poptart]

5 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

You meant Bishop Barron.  He is great.  I have even recommended on this board that he be a guest speaker at LDS Annual Conference some year.

Ops, typo my mistake.  Don't get me wrong, his bible is fantastic and I love how he defended father Damien from cancel culture.  Here's the video where he talks about how mean other Catholics can be.

"Catholics, Media Mobs, and the Culture of Contempt" (2021 LA Religious Education Congress) - YouTube

I'm just getting a bit tired of getting my email box spammed all the time.   I know it's not so much him, it's word on fire (I think?)  I mean, how much stuff can they make?  It's like, every week they have something new.  I love the Word on Fire bible, it kept me interested in the bible period and yes I plan on getting the next one.  I wonder if he's the reincarnation of one of the priests they sent to convert the Germanics, there was one who was super aggressive and obnoxious, he got the job done.  His name escapes me.

 

[Kevin Christensen]

When I come back to Utah to visit family, I do like to drop by Deseret book to look around.  The thing that really bothers is me is how difficult it has become to find what I see as "the good stuff."  That is, the collected works of Hugh Nibley, Ancient American Setting for the Book of Mormon, Brant's books, Truman Madsen, Blake Ostler, perhaps a few volumes of Barker or Eliade, the displays of FARMS Preliminary Reports and Reprints, and the Old Review, and such, the better volumes from Religious Studies, and all that sort of thing... the cutting edge of scholarship from the best minds available, rather just, not that.  Conventional re-enforcement at a basic level.  You have to wade through a lot material that I don't see as answering the charge to "seek out of the best books words of wisdom."   My impression is that there used to be more of the good stuff, the mind-expanding, stuff.  There are lots of devotional books (for which there is a time and place, certainly), novels, and knick knacks.  DVDs.  Music.  Less of what I am looking for when I go.  

FWIW,

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

Edited April 7, 2021 by Kevin Christensen

[Scott Lloyd]

23 minutes ago, rongo said:

To be honest, my only knowledge of Deseret Book is the sticker shock of physically seeing prices on the shelf. It didn't occur to me that the online store would be a lot cheaper than in-store, or that DB would price match Amazon. Is that a fact? With how low Amazon prices can be (especially if one is willing to buy used), I still wouldn't be surprised if Amazon goes lower than DB is willing to go in some cases, even on unused books. 

It’s possible it happens in some cases, I suppose. Whether it happens as a general rule is, I would think, debatable. 

[Rain]

If someone doesn't like Deseret Book I am ok with it. I do find the reasons given here for not liking it kind of funny though.

Paying people money - lots of people get paid for religion by our church. First up is general authorities.  I know some are bothered by that, but they do need money to live.  But the church also pays for the admins, the software designers, the workers in the print shops, the sewers of garments, the builders of temples.  They may not teach doctrine directly to us, but without them we don't have important parts of our religion.  

Lots of people say we shouldn't pay people for religion because of priestcraft.  That isn't priestcraft.  Priestcraft is to set yourself up as a light for gain and praise.

Then there are the talents God gives us.  Some get engineering talent. Some get medical talent.  Some get creative talent.  Those who follow God try to use, increase and give their talents for the benefit of others.  If we pay a doctor or engineer, why should we not pay an artist whose products help our homes, churches and temples have a good atmosphere?

Amazon - I've found that DB and Amazon run pretty closely when I have looked.  Sometimes Amazon is cheaper.  Sometimes DB is.  When they are the same I go to DB because of how some of the money is used for charitable causes.

Yes, you can get free content through the church website, but the church does not do most things that DB does and what they do the same is the same cost. 

Examples:

- You can get a Book of Mormon on the website, but if you want to do a deep study of it and write lots of notes and journal with it the new journaling Book of Mormons are really cool. Almost always I would turn to the website or the regular church scriptures, but a couple of years ago the journaling one came as a blessing to me.

- All over the church website you can hear that we should search, study and ponder the scriptures. Rarely though do you find a lot of practical advice on how to do that though.  DB has some good books that help some of us who lack in that area how to do it.

- You can find a ton of info about Christ and the atonement on the website.  But the Lord has given some individuals the talent to pull those together in ways that reach some people that they weren't reached before.

Jewelry - some people don't like jewelry.  I'm not big on it.  But why should I be bothered by someone wearing jewelry that expresses their faith and has meaning to them over someone who wear jewelery to look good  fashionable, or put together?  

Edited April 7, 2021 by Rain

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, rongo said:

I'm pretty sure you can get any Desert Book book on Amazon, for a fraction of the price. 

Last time I looked they were the same price.  I haven't looked at all the books obviously though.

[Rain]

12 minutes ago, Kevin Christensen said:

When I come back to Utah to visit family, I do like to drop by Deseret book to look around.  The thing that really bothers is me is how difficult it has become to find what I see as "the good stuff."  That is, the collected works of Hugh Nibley, Acient American Setting for the Book of Mormon, Brant's books, Truman Madsen, Blake Ostler, perhaps a few volumes of Barker or Eliade, the displays of FARMS Preliminary Reports and Reprints, and the Old Review, and such, the better volumes from Religious Studies, and all that sort of thing... the cutting edge of scholarship from the best minds available, rather just, not that.  Conventional re-enforcement at a basic level.  You have to wade through a lot material that I don't see as answering the charge to "seek out of the best books words of wisdom."   My impression is that there used to be more of the good stuff, the mind-expanding, stuff.  There are lots of devotional books (for which there is a time and place, certainly), novels, and knick knacks.  DVDs.  Music.  Less of what I am looking for when I go.  

FWIW,

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

I can see that and why you miss those things.  I do think they still have a lot of mind expanding best books but they may not be the same topics you are looking for. 

[CV75]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I understand the criticism and in some ways feel the same way with limits. For a church employee I find it off-putting. For an ecclesiastical leader of the church at the general level I feel it is more akin to priestcraft UNLESS they donate proceeds of sales back to the church or some other charitable organization.

However, writing is work and I don't begrudge the average LDS member writing and selling in DB. Some authors write fiction. Some create FHE help guides or come follow me aids for teaching youth etc. There has to be a way to get that content out there and sales are the way to do it. And to be honest, beyond a few BIG bestsellers at DB, no one is getting rich off of the content they produce. The likely exceptions are the high-profile leaders and perhaps a couple of the best-selling fiction authors.  I don't see it as opportunistic for the average member. If they have an idea that will be of benefit, they have to get it out there and noticed somehow.

How much is known about general authorities supplementing their Church-paid income with book sales / royalties?

[HappyJackWagon]

19 minutes ago, CV75 said:

How much is known about general authorities supplementing their Church-paid income with book sales / royalties?

We know they sell books.

We have no way of auditing their income sources.

So I'd say we don't know much, but it stands to reason the income they make from sales goes somewhere.

[JLHPROF]

Seagull Book has everything Deseret Book does at a lower price.  I very rarely by Church books from Deseret Book, and any art I always get at Seagull.
Ironic since they merged a while back.

But most of the gospel books I buy aren't Church publications anyway so I have even less incentive to go to Deseret Book.

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Choose The Right ... Bourbon?

"Got a little Captain [Moroni] in ya?"

 

Sigh.  Sometimes, I kill myself (purely figuratively speaking, of course)!

Or perhaps you prefer 

 

[Scott Lloyd]

34 minutes ago, Rain said:

- You can get a Book of Mormon on the website, but if you want to do a deep study of it and write lots of notes and journal with it the new journaling Book of Mormons are really cool. Almost always I would turn to the website or the regular church scriptures, but a couple of years ago the journaling one came as a blessing to me.

I find great scope for in-depth study of the scriptures with the personal-study functions on the Gospel Library app. You can do marginal notations; highlighting; cross references with other books of scripture, general conference talks, Church manuals and magazines; make your own customized topical guide with headings of your own choosing; you can even compile your own gospel study notebook, which could include journaling. All of this is automatically saved to the cloud and accessible with your Church login and password. 
 

Some people need the more tactile experience of making handwritten notes in a printed, hard copy book. It’s what works for them. I get that. I just fear that some among us never bother to acquaint themselves with what the Church has already provided at no-cost or low-cost. 

[Scott Lloyd]

9 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Seagull Book has everything Deseret Book does at a lower price.  I very rarely by Church books from Deseret Book, and any art I always get at Seagull.
Ironic since they merged a while back.

But most of the gospel books I buy aren't Church publications anyway so I have even less incentive to go to Deseret Book.

Isn’t Seagull now a subsidiary of Deseret Book?

[bluebell]

32 minutes ago, CV75 said:

How much is known about general authorities supplementing their Church-paid income with book sales / royalties?

Zero much is known. 

[Amulek]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

To be honest, my only knowledge of Deseret Book is the sticker shock of physically seeing prices on the shelf. It didn't occur to me that the online store would be a lot cheaper than in-store, or that DB would price match Amazon. Is that a fact? With how low Amazon prices can be (especially if one is willing to buy used), I still wouldn't be surprised if Amazon goes lower than DB is willing to go in some cases, even on unused books. 

If interested, you can read the full policy here: https://support.deseretbook.com/article/91-promotions-and-discounts

Price matching for Amazon works the same as what most other major retailers offer on that front: price matching on original goods shipped and sold by Amazon directly - not including third party sellers. So that would pretty much knock out any used books. 

Still, there will be times when you will find new books cheaper on Amazon or the big box stores (e.g., Wal-Mart, Costco) because Deseret Book (the publisher) will sell these to them in bulk directly, and those stores are able to then discount the prices to at or below cost because they are able to offset those costs by a multitude of other products (i.e., groceries, clothing, toys, electronics, etc.). 

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Amulek

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Zeniff said:

People profit by selling things only if enough other people buy those things by using something that provides a profit to the one selling that thing.  Otherwise the exchange could be at a loss to the seller or only to break even.

I often see things I am willing to trade my money for so that I will be able to have those things that are for sale.  A book conveying some knowledge I would like to have for say $25 could be a real bargain depending on how much I value that knowledge.

What I don't like much is to have multiple items of the same thing, like multiple copies of either the same book or books that have basically the same knowledge but were written by different people.  One source of that knowledge is all I really need.  Unless maybe I am planning to open a school with multiple students and I want to provide a separate book for each student.  Or maybe multiple children who did not want to share the one book.

 

Ahab, is that you?

[Amulek]

10 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Isn’t Seagull now a subsidiary of Deseret Book?

Yes, Deseret Book acquired Seagull back in 2006 (see, here). 

And yet they still offer price matching for Seagull Book (see, here). 

 

[Rain]

21 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I find great scope for in-depth study of the scriptures with the personal-study functions on the Gospel Library app. You can do marginal notations; highlighting; cross references with other books of scripture, general conference talks, Church manuals and magazines; make your own customized topical guide with headings of your own choosing; you can even compile your own gospel study notebook, which could include journaling. All of this is automatically saved to the cloud and accessible with your Church login and password. 
 

Some people need the more tactile experience of making handwritten notes in a printed, hard copy book. It’s what works for them. I get that. I just fear that some among us never bother to acquaint themselves with what the Church has already provided at no-cost or low-cost. 

You're right that some just don't bother to do that.  I think a lot of people who don't may not bother with paper sources as well. I  personally, like a combination. 

My daughter would always got for paper if she didn't have to carry them around.  Funny things is that during college so many of her text books went digital - I think that made her paper spiritual resources even more important to her.

[Scott Lloyd]

12 minutes ago, Amulek said:

Yes, Deseret Book acquired Seagull back in 2006 (see, here). 

And yet they still offer price matching for Seagull Book (see, here). 

 

At least they didn’t acquire it to kill it. That would have been predatory. 

[bluebell]

5 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I've complained about this before but since I'm annoyed by my last thread gone wild I'm giving myself a pass.  

Deseret book to me is an opportunity for people to profit off of The Gospel.  I don't see any way around that argument.  I get that there is demand, and that those who look for those things have a right to have them - but in my opinion its gross that people would be opportunistic and find ways to make money from peoples' faith.  

Deseret Books always brings the verse "the laborer is worthy of his hire" to my mind (even though I'm sure it's not in the same context of the scripture).  If someone has an art talent that God has blessed them with, making religious art and selling it to people doesn't seem gross to me.  It seems...fair.  It's a skill that is worthy of compensation.

But I don't think there's anything wrong with finding it off putting either I guess.

[Duncan]

I remember some years ago Pres. Uchtdorf put out a book of his talks but it was stuff that was all online and you would feel jipped by buying it, if you knew that of course. I like that guy Hawkins who does temple art, he writes books and does temple art and makes recommend holders, he has a talent and like everyone else with that kind of talent is capitalizing on it. 

[poptart]

2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Or perhaps you prefer 

 

While I'm not religious like most of you this is as close I'd ever get to saying the church/membership is true, you take this stuff in stride.   Lol that's funny.  If this was any other denomination they'd throw a fit.  You guys even turned the BOM musical into an evangelism opportunity, that's awesome.

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Deseret Books always brings the verse "the laborer is worthy of his hire" to my mind (even though I'm sure it's not in the same context of the scripture).  If someone has an art talent that God has blessed them with, making religious art and selling it to people doesn't seem gross to me.  It seems...fair.  It's a skill that is worthy of compensation.

But I don't think there's anything wrong with finding it off putting either I guess.

Deseret Book. Short for Deseret Book Co. 

[Scott Lloyd]

19 minutes ago, poptart said:

While I'm not religious like most of you this is as close I'd ever get to saying the church/membership is true, you take this stuff in stride.   Lol that's funny.  If this was any other denomination they'd throw a fit.  You guys even turned the BOM musical into an evangelism opportunity, that's awesome.

I don’t think this sort of thing comes from Church members. Not devout ones, at least. It puts me off, actually. 

[Bob Crockett]

42 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I remember some years ago Pres. Uchtdorf put out a book of his talks but it was stuff that was all online and you would feel jipped by buying it, if you knew that of course. I like that guy Hawkins who does temple art, he writes books and does temple art and makes recommend holders, he has a talent and like everyone else with that kind of talent is capitalizing on it. 

The word is "gyped" and its an ethnic slur directed to Romanians.  Hah hah.  I know it isn't intentional.  But best to remove stuff like that from our vocabularies.

I also have a problem with the stuff sold at Deseret Books but, on the other hand, I appreciate the books compiling the wisdom of the Brethren.  That should be in our homes and DB can't deliver that for free.  Plus I like to shop for new scriptures with wide margins as well as reduced size sets for traveling.  DB is also a traditional book store and carries lots of secular books.  That is where I obtained "No Man Knows My History," and my Bart Ehrman collection, for example.    I could do without the fluff that passes for LDS speculative philosophy.  

Edited April 8, 2021 by Bob Crockett

[poptart]

4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I don’t think this sort of thing comes from Church members. Not devout ones, at least. It puts me off, actually. 

Ok, noted, my bad sorry.