Jump to content

Elder andersen on abortion


Recommended Posts

I thought I’d start another thread on a a talk which may stir up controversy.  

 I for one absolutely loved Andersen’s talk on the sanctity of life. 

However, I sometimes question why the church allows for rare exceptions on this issue.  

Edit:  I could have sworn I capitalized Andersen in the title.

Edited by Rivers
  • Like 1
Link to post
6 minutes ago, Rivers said:

I sometimes question why the church allows for rare exceptions on this issue.  

Really? It seems like Church leaders have spoken about this on multiple occasions (see, e.g., here).

Have you not encountered these remarks before, or is it that you do not find them persuasive (and, if not, why not)?

 

Link to post
11 minutes ago, Rivers said:

I thought I’d start another thread on a a talk which may stir up controversy.  

 I for one absolutely loved Andersen’s talk on the sanctity of life. 

However, I sometimes question why the church allows for rare exceptions on this issue.  

Edit:  I could have sworn I capitalized Andersen in the title.

I think the Church allows rare exceptions (to just about anything) because the application of and governance by correct principles is much more complicated than teaching them. Experiencing the interaction of correct principles is far more complicated than hearing about them in isolation. Our personal duty is more complicated than the Church's.

Edited by CV75
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 2
Link to post
31 minutes ago, Rivers said:

I thought I’d start another thread on a a talk which may stir up controversy.  

 I for one absolutely loved Andersen’s talk on the sanctity of life. 

However, I sometimes question why the church allows for rare exceptions on this issue.  

Edit:  I could have sworn I capitalized Andersen in the title.

I think rare exceptions exist or can be made for every rule we try to live by, generally speaking.  As Joseph Smith said, that which is wrong under one circumstance may be and often is right under another.

Link to post
8 minutes ago, Zeniff said:

I think rare exceptions exist or can be made for every rule we try to live by, generally speaking.  As Joseph Smith said, that which is wrong under one circumstance may be and often is right under another.

For our edification, you might want to provide the quote or source.

Link to post
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, smac97 said:

 

So it goes, I think, with the very rare exceptions noted above.  They represent "hard cases." 

Thanks,

-Smac

That’s a great way to put it. 

Whenever I discuss this topic with pro-choice people, they always bring up the hard cases.

 Someone recently asked me, “What if a 13-year old girl is raped?”  I responded, “Kill the rapist. Not the baby.”  But I had to concede that this was a really hard case and acknowledged that the church to which I belong would allow an exception in such a situation.  But I still say the rapist needs to be executed.

Edited by Rivers
  • Like 1
Link to post
1 minute ago, Stargazer said:

For our edification, you might want to provide the quote or source.

That’s from a letter to one of his wive’s on the subject of plural marriage if I’m not mistaken.  

Link to post
18 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

For our edification, you might want to provide the quote or source.

"History, 1838–1856, volume D-1 [1 August 1842–1 July 1843] [addenda]," p. 3 [addenda], The Joseph Smith Papers, accessed April 6, 2021, https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1838-1856-volume-d-1-1-august-1842-1-july-1843/284

 

813 <August 27. Page 1387.> “Happiness is the object and design of our existence, and will be the end thereof, if we pursue the path that leads to it; and this path is virtue, uprightness, faithfulness, holiness, and keeping all the commandments of God; but we cannot keep all the commandments without first knowing them, and we cannot expect to know all, or more than we now know, unless we comply with or keep those we have already received! That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another. God said, ‘Thou shalt not kill’; at another time he said, ‘Thou shalt utterly destroy.’ This is the principle on which the government of heaven is conducted, by revelation adapted to the circumstances in which the children of the Kingdom are placed. Whatever God requires is right, no matter what it is, although we may not see the reason thereof till long after the events transpire. If we seek first the kingdom of God, all good things will be added
Link to post
1 hour ago, Rivers said:

I thought I’d start another thread on a a talk which may stir up controversy.  

 I for one absolutely loved Andersen’s talk on the sanctity of life. 

However, I sometimes question why the church allows for rare exceptions on this issue.  

Edit:  I could have sworn I capitalized Andersen in the title.

I think they allow the exceptions because we have no doctrine on when the spirit enters the body and we do not believe that aborted babies will not get a chance to be born.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
3 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Is there a statement on Capital Punishment from Church leaders ? I searched the on line handbook but no results. 

The current official stance is that they have no official stance.

Link to post
7 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Is there a statement on Capital Punishment from Church leaders ? I searched the on line handbook but no results.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/official-statement/capital-punishment

Quote

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints regards the question of whether and in what circumstances the state should impose capital punishment as a matter to be decided solely by the prescribed processes of civil law. We neither promote nor oppose capital punishment.

It's been on the website in that form at least as far back as Feb 2011.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
4 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Is there a statement on Capital Punishment from Church leaders ? I searched the on line handbook but no results. 

The Handbook isn't the only place to look, actually.  In any case, it would hard for the Church to be opposed to it, since the scriptures are very clear on the subject, and lo! and behold! see the Guide to the Scriptures regarding it:

Capital Punishment

See also Murder

Punishment by death for a crime committed, especially associated with punishment for murder.

  • Whoso sheds man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed, Gen. 9:6 (JST, Gen. 9:12–13).
  • The murderer shall surely be put to death, Num. 35:16.
  • Murderers who deliberately kill shall die, 2 Ne. 9:35.
  • Thou art condemned to die according to the law, Alma 1:13–14.
  • He that murdered was punished unto death, Alma 1:18.
  • The law requires the life of him who has murdered, Alma 34:12.
  • He that kills shall die, D&C 42:19.

 

Link to post
1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

The problem with a "one size fits all" policy is that one size doesn't fit all. 

I think God is capable of providing a policy that exhaustively covers every possible situation that could ever occur to any member of the human family throughout all of time.

Can you imagine how long that would be though? 

Now if only God had thought to give mankind some kind of...gift which would allow us to directly receive knowledge and inspiration about (literally) everything we should do

 

  • Upvote 2
Link to post
9 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Is there a statement on Capital Punishment from Church leaders ? I searched the on line handbook but no results. 

You would need to ask the individual Church leaders for their own statements.  There isn't a unified statement from all Church leaders stating what all of them think about this issue, or any other issue, as far as I know.

Statements from the First Presidency represent what those 3 people think and believe, and statements from The Quorum of Twelve Apostles represent what those 12 people think and believe. 

I don't know the total number of Church leaders but there are a lot more than only those 15 men.

Link to post
59 minutes ago, Amulek said:

I think God is capable of providing a policy that exhaustively covers every possible situation that could ever occur to any member of the human family throughout all of time.

Can you imagine how long that would be though? 

Now if only God had thought to give mankind some kind of...gift which would allow us to directly receive knowledge and inspiration about (literally) everything we should do

 

Yeah, imagine that... 😄 

  • Like 1
Link to post
3 hours ago, Rivers said:

I thought I’d start another thread on a a talk which may stir up controversy.  

 I for one absolutely loved Andersen’s talk on the sanctity of life. 

However, I sometimes question why the church allows for rare exceptions on this issue.  

Edit:  I could have sworn I capitalized Andersen in the title.

Only the first word is capitalized in a thread title, so no worries about this. Even exceptions for both, “Rape and Incest”, members are still asked to fast and pray before proceeding. However the fruits of Rape and Incest, allow those already brutalized, to be harmed even more, than the original act of barbarism. 

Link to post

I think capital punishment is entirely out of the Church's, no pun intended, hands.  You don't see "how to have a hanging, firing squad lethal injection" in the guide for stake presidents

Life isn't so black and white, it would be nice to have apostles who were faithful but some have been exed, it would be nice to have every person baptized stay active but that isn't reality. I wonder what happened to the kids of those cities, 16 plus, destroyed in the Book of Mormon prior to Christ's coming? Like Paul said we look through a glass darkly

Edited by Duncan
Link to post
5 hours ago, Rivers said:

I thought I’d start another thread on a a talk which may stir up controversy.  

 I for one absolutely loved Andersen’s talk on the sanctity of life. 

However, I sometimes question why the church allows for rare exceptions on this issue.  

Because God goes after the one.  Sometimes the one is the baby.  Sometimes the one is the mom.  

Some will always choose the mother over the child. Some will always choose the child over the mother. Christ knows which one, mother or child, is the one who is lost* and needs saved.  If we can't imagine ourselves in both places then we don't have the knowledge God has in determining who the lost one is. 

*one can be lost in many different ways.

5 hours ago, Rivers said:

Edit:  I could have sworn I capitalized Andersen in the title.

 

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 2
Link to post
37 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Thanks for the help guys. I just looked in one place so I probably fit into that group that Pres. Nelson talked about .

But then you asked here, so that's still putting in effort.

  • Upvote 2
Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...