President oaks on the constitution

[JLHPROF]

7 minutes ago, Theosis said:

Amazing to me an apostle of the Jesus Christ, and a spiritual leader in the community, didn't mention Jesus Christ once in his conference talk. On Easter. This was an "all about me" talk by Oaks, a lesson in bravado and self indulgence by a man. Sad to see the Savior of the world get overshadowed on an important remembrance day.  

Not every Conference talk needs to be on the same subject.
This is Church Conference AND Easter celebration.  Not an Easter program.

This same kind of complaint always crops up when anyone mentions Joseph Smith in Church around December 23rd.

[Duncan]

Just now, teddyaware said:

In consideration of the fact that it’s the atoning sacrifice of our Savior that enables us to have agency and be free, I would say the preservation of our divinely inspired Constitution is indeed an appropriate subject for an Easter Sunday address, especially in light of the fact that our God given rights are being threatened as never before. It’s somewhat akin to asking if it was appropriate for Brigham Young to cancel General Conference so the focus of the Church could be centered on saving the stranded handcart pioneers. 

well no it wouldn't as they didn't have a worldwide audience back then. It's odd that your "god given rights" are threatened by your own people

[Theosis]

4 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Not every Conference talk needs to be on the same subject.
This is Church Conference AND Easter celebration.  Not an Easter program.

This same kind of complaint always crops up when anyone mentions Joseph Smith in Church around December 23rd.

Wholly disagree. I'm not saying the subject has to be on Easter, but the messages should be centered in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Oaks talk had nothing to do with Christ, the gospel or drawing close to him. It was a pride sermon spoken by the prideful. 

[Scott Lloyd]

13 minutes ago, Theosis said:

Amazing to me an apostle of the Jesus Christ, and a spiritual leader in the community, didn't mention Jesus Christ once in his conference talk. On Easter. This was an "all about me" talk by Oaks, a lesson in bravado and self indulgence by a man. Sad to see the Savior of the world get overshadowed on an important remembrance day.  

From the transcript provided above (I’ve added the boldface emphasis):

“Most importantly, I speak from 37 years as an apostle of Jesus Christ, responsible to study the meaning of the divinely inspired United States constitution to the work of his restored church.” 

 

[Scott Lloyd]

10 minutes ago, Duncan said:

oh, I am sure someone could figure out how to put all those people in the scriptures too! if you can see Santa Claus in Zechariah 2:6 then Nelson Mandela would be a snap!

"Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD"

Now you’re not even making sense. 

[JLHPROF]

7 minutes ago, Theosis said:

Wholly disagree. I'm not saying the subject has to be on Easter, but the messages should be centered in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Oaks talk had nothing to do with Christ, the gospel or drawing close to him. It was a pride sermon spoken by the prideful. 

The gospel of Jesus Christ encompasses all doctrines of his gospel.
That includes what he said in D&C 101:77-80 or in D&C 98:4-7.

Or do those words of his gospel not matter?

Edited April 5, 2021 by JLHPROF

[Bob Crockett]

8 minutes ago, Theosis said:

Wholly disagree. I'm not saying the subject has to be on Easter, but the messages should be centered in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Oaks talk had nothing to do with Christ, the gospel or drawing close to him. It was a pride sermon spoken by the prideful. 

That isn't true.  General conference is more than about an evangelical notion of Jesus. I thought the other speakers covered the ground well.

Elder Oaks' particular role seems to be to push back against government incursion into the free exercise of religion. Here he emphasized the relationship between the constitution and the restoration.

[SteveO]

5 hours ago, Rajah Manchou said:

The country next door to me has a constitution too, also based on the US Constitution, but people are now being shot dead in the streets because one party got this brilliant idea from somewhere (I dare not say where) that they could simply dispute the elections if they didn't like the results. 

Correct.  Before 2016, this never happened anywhere in the world, at any time, under any circumstance.

🙄

[SteveO]

15 minutes ago, Theosis said:

Wholly disagree. I'm not saying the subject has to be on Easter, but the messages should be centered in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Oaks talk had nothing to do with Christ, the gospel or drawing close to him. It was a pride sermon spoken by the prideful. 

So you’d negate pretty much the entire Old Testament then?  This is spiritual immaturity.  It was much needed message considering the past year.

[CV75]

44 minutes ago, Theosis said:

Amazing to me an apostle of the Jesus Christ, and a spiritual leader in the community, didn't mention Jesus Christ once in his conference talk. On Easter. This was an "all about me" talk by Oaks, a lesson in bravado and self indulgence by a man. Sad to see the Savior of the world get overshadowed on an important remembrance day.  

"Jesus Christ" appears 4 times, "God" 4 times, "Lord" 3 times.

[Scott Lloyd]

The content on this thread has been largely disappointing. Despite the fact that a transcript of President Oaks’s talk has been provided (my thanks to Chum and Stargazer) the commentary so far has largely centered not on the content of his sermon but upon his having had the temerity to have selected the topic in the first place. I’ve even had my Americanism mocked, though I never intended that to be the focus of the thread. 
 

Very intellectually dissatisfying thus far. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Scott Lloyd

[longview]

30 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

41 minutes ago, Duncan said:

oh, I am sure someone could figure out how to put all those people in the scriptures too! if you can see Santa Claus in Zechariah 2:6 then Nelson Mandela would be a snap!

"Ho, ho, come forth, and flee from the land of the north, saith the LORD"

Now you’re not even making sense. 

The principles of the Constitution have distilled on every nation and blessed all peoples (even those living in totalitarian tryanny [although indirect]).  You do not have to be LDS to appreciate what your non-LDS pastor neighbor has proclaimed - - -

https://twitter.com/ezralevant/status/1378506465158303747?s=20

Edited April 5, 2021 by longview

[CV75]

34 minutes ago, Theosis said:

Wholly disagree. I'm not saying the subject has to be on Easter, but the messages should be centered in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Oaks talk had nothing to do with Christ, the gospel or drawing close to him. It was a pride sermon spoken by the prideful. 

"What was God's purpose in establishing the United States constitution? We see it in the doctrine of moral agency."

"I testify of the divinely inspired constitution of the United States and pray that we who recognize the divine being who inspired it will always uphold and defend its great principles. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen."

[Calm]

49 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

especially in light of the fact that our God given rights are being threatened as never before.

You think we have it worse than slaves did when refused their god given right to life, liberty, and happiness; the treatment of the Native Americans; than when women couldn’t vote; than the blacks once getting the federal right to vote still being prevented from voting by states and counties; than the Saints who were driven out of Nauvoo and forced to give up living plural marriage, a major religious practice?

Edited April 5, 2021 by Calm

[SteveO]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

than the blacks once getting the federal right to vote still being prevented from voting by states and counties;

Still being prevented?

[Rajah Manchou]

27 minutes ago, SteveO said:

Correct.  Before 2016, this never happened anywhere in the world, at any time, under any circumstance.

🙄

My point being it happens often, even to the most exceptional nations, even as many are in denial that it nearly happened, to us. 

Have to give credit to our Constitution, it hung by a thread, and got us through. 

[Scott Lloyd]

3 minutes ago, Rajah Manchou said:

My point being it happens often, even to the most exceptional nations, even as many are in denial that it nearly happened, to us. 

Have to give credit to our Constitution, it hung by a thread, and got us through. 

Please don’t bring partisan politics into this thread and risk having it shut down. 

[SteveO]

9 minutes ago, Rajah Manchou said:

My point being it happens often, even to the most exceptional nations, even as many are in denial that it nearly happened, to us. 

Have to give credit to our Constitution, it hung by a thread, and got us through. 

🙄. No it wasn’t. The legislature reconvened the same day.

The *ahem* “protests” over the summer did more to erode public trust in the government’s ability to protect life, property, and rights than a guy in a Buffalo headdress taking pictures in the rotunda.

Edited April 5, 2021 by SteveO

[Calm]

10 minutes ago, SteveO said:

Still being prevented?

I meant they were given the right to vote, but then roadblocks were set up to prevent them from exercising that right, the Jim Crow laws, so not much had changed for them in many cases. 

[Rajah Manchou]

3 minutes ago, SteveO said:

It actually wasn’t hanging by a thread.  The legislature reconvened the same day.

Not at all hanging by a thread. I mean he only wanted to find 11,780 votes. That’s not too much to ask. Come on fellas, gimme a break.

[SteveO]

Just now, Rajah Manchou said:

Not at all hanging by a thread. I mean he only wanted to find 11,780 votes. That’s not too much to ask. Come on fellas, gimme a break.

Gimme a break.  You do know that came out as an outright lie that the Washington Post had to correct?

Another rake the mainstream press stepped on.  Do keep up on current events.

[Scott Lloyd]

From President Oaks’s talk:

   “The United States constitution is unique because God revealed that he "established" it "for the rights and protection of all flesh.”  That is why this constitution is of special concern for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints throughout the world.  Whether or how its principles should be applied in other nations of the world is for them to decide.  
    “What was God's purpose in establishing the United States constitution? We see it in the doctrine of moral agency.  In the first decade of the restored church, its members on the western frontier were suffering private and public persecution.  Partly this was because of their opposition to the human slavery then existing in the United States.  In these unfortunate circumstances, God revealed through the prophet joseph smith eternal truths about his doctrine.  
    “God has given his children moral agency -- the power to decide and to act.  The most desirable condition for the exercise of that agency is maximum freedom for men and women to act according to their individual choices.  Then, the revelation explains, "every man may be accountable for his own sins in the day of judgment."  "Therefore," the Lord revealed, "it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another"

This is a very important point, because it underscores the doctrinal reason that the Lord gave His imprimatur to the Constitution: the preservation of our moral agency, not just for Americans, but for “all flesh.” It goes to the very purpose of our mortal existence: to be tested to see if we would “do all things the Lord God commanders.” For that, we NEED our agency, and it is the proper role of government — any government — to safeguard it. 

[LoudmouthMormon]

I was incredibly happy to watch Elder Oaks' talk yesterday.  It was like a refreshing breath of normalcy, after a pandemic-and-social-unrest-fueled year of grief.  In the last year, I've interacted with people who are giving serious thought to notions like:

- The constitution is (at best) outdated/needs to be replaced, or (at worst) is evil/needs to be actively resisted.
- Separation of power should be discarded when people feel it's justified.
- People should not be treated as equal citizens in the eyes of the law.  Government should make things harder for some people, and easier for others, for various reasons.
- Pulling down statues of people who created and preserved our constitution, and burning what some consider our sacred institutions to the ground, is a worthy goal long overdue.

I'm grateful to hear that folks like @Duncan considered Oaks' remarks to be so self-evident as to be boring.  You don't have to cross too many sociopolitical lines to find how not everyone sees it that way.

[Scott Lloyd]

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

I meant they were given the right to vote, but then roadblocks were set up to prevent them from exercising that right, the Jim Crow laws, so not much had changed for them in many cases. 

But those unjust laws were eventually removed. How? By appealing through the judicial system to the Constitution, which the Lord had suffered to be established for the benefit of “all flesh” and because it is not right that any person should be in bondage to another. 

[Rajah Manchou]

17 minutes ago, SteveO said:

Gimme a break.  You do know that came out as an outright lie that the Washington Post had to correct?

Nah, I listened to the recording. I just wanna find 11780 votes is exactly word-for-word quote, but I’ll drop it because when we discuss these things about America the thread gets closed. I’ll stick to talking about nameless countries. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Rajah Manchou