President oaks on the constitution

[Scott Lloyd]

Does anyone here have a link to a transcript of President Oaks’s Sunday PM talk on the U.S. Constitution?  If not, I’ll post one here when I find it, as a basis for discussion. 

[The Nehor]

Here is the Church News summary if that helps:

https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-and-ministry/2021-04-04/president-oaks-april-2021-general-conference-defending-the-constitution-208604

Edited April 4, 2021 by The Nehor

[Robert F. Smith]

I was a bit surprised that he addressed that issue, but he did a good job of hitting the high points and explaining the key principles.  He was the best qualified to say something about it.  Still, there are a lot of people out there who don't like the Constitution or the rule of law, and who might take exception to his remarks -- likely taking them out of context.

[halconero]

I thought he did a good job. I try to take talks like this introspectively first before applying them to others, and found myself needing to apply more focus on certain aspects of my job that involve engaging with elected officials and bureaucrats.

He threaded a very interesting needle on originalist and activist thought around the US constitution, recognizing it as inspired, but not perfect, nor completed; allowing for activism through the constitution (highlighting slavery and suffrage amendments), while advocating the amending formula and condemning judicial overreach.

I’ll have to read it more - I’m Canadian, and he mentioned how non-US members can apply his talk, so I’ll need to think of that some more.

[Robert F. Smith]

32 minutes ago, halconero said:

.................................allowing for activism through the constitution (highlighting slavery and suffrage amendments), while advocating the amending formula and condemning judicial overreach........

I was glad he pointed out that the early LDS Church was anti-slavery, part of the reason for its persecution in Missouri.

[Chum]

4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Does anyone here have a link to a transcript of President Oaks’s Sunday PM talk on the U.S. Constitution?

I couldn't find one so I grabbed the srt from the YT broadcast and applied some regex and formatting to clean it up.

I posted the text here. https://pastebin.com/inQj8eg8  It's not capitalized properly but at least you can read it.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Chum
Moved the transcript to pastebin for readability

[MustardSeed]

Having been told directly that it makes no sense that an active member would vote D, I admit I fist pumped .  I feel kind of guilty that I was more excited at a statement that I hoped someone else would hear than I was about anything that "I" need to change, but it is what it is.  I also ate too much for dinner so I might as well be guilty of a few things in one day. 

 

[JustAnAustralian]

3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I was a bit surprised that he addressed that issue,

Maybe he's secretly on this board and read the recent comments about it.

[longview]

3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I was a bit surprised that he addressed that issue, but he did a good job of hitting the high points and explaining the key principles.  He was the best qualified to say something about it.  Still, there are a lot of people out there who don't like the Constitution or the rule of law, and who might take exception to his remarks -- likely taking them out of context.

It was notable how Elder Oaks made an extended review of his own background in law and the courts.

[BlueDreams]

8 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Having been told directly that it makes no sense that an active member would vote D, I admit I fist pumped .  I feel kind of guilty that I was more excited at a statement that I hoped someone else would hear than I was about anything that "I" need to change, but it is what it is.  I also ate too much for dinner so I might as well be guilty of a few things in one day. 

 

My brother did similar. He got ganged on this last election cycle when he "switched sides" this election by parts of my family (I didn't get the same treatment since I'm basically a lost cause politically). So when Oaks basically gave a thumbs up to voting both parties depending the election it was definitely a boost of validation for him.  

Edited April 5, 2021 by BlueDreams

[Duncan]

no offense but total snooze-a-rama but the end part was good!

[longview]

1 minute ago, Duncan said:

no offense but total snooze-a-rama but the end part was good!

Freedom matters.  The Constitution is a God-given blessing to the entire world.

[Kenngo1969]

If there is a politician, a pundit, or an officeholder alive with whom a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can be said to be in perfect agreement on absolutely everything, said Latter-day Saint needs to have his or her head examined.  The best one can do is "play the percentages."  Having said that, I will say, Hasten, Zion!

[Duncan]

36 minutes ago, longview said:

Freedom matters.  The Constitution is a God-given blessing to the entire world.

 

I have yet to see that in the scriptures that God gave the constitution as a blessing to the entire world

Edited April 5, 2021 by Duncan

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, JustAnAustralian said:

Maybe he's secretly on this board and read the recent comments about it.

I am flattered but it is not me. Or is that just what I want people to thing?

[Peacefully]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

no offense but total snooze-a-rama but the end part was good!

I wondered how non-US members felt about the talk, especially after the international morning session. It seemed like one minute we were trumpeting the world-wide Church and the next we were back to American exceptionalism. I was glad he brought it around to people voting their conscience. 

[Scott Lloyd]

27 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

It seemed like one minute we were trumpeting the world-wide Church and the next we were back to American exceptionalism.

Why can’t we do both? 

[Calm]

17 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Why can’t we do both? 

Spoken like an American...

[Scott Lloyd]

54 minutes ago, Calm said:

Spoken like an American...

I’ll take that as a compliment and thank you accordingly. 

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Scott Lloyd
Added Lee Greenwood video link

[The Nehor]

29 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I’ll take that as a compliment and thank you accordingly. 

Wouldn't be too quick to do that. These exceptional Americans are the ones that drove our ancestors into the wilderness. There is a lot of wisdom to be found in the Constitution but that doesn't mean it spills over to the people who live under it.

[Scott Lloyd]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Wouldn't be too quick to do that. These exceptional Americans are the ones that drove our ancestors into the wilderness. There is a lot of wisdom to be found in the Constitution but that doesn't mean it spills over to the people who live under it.

I’m not the one who injected the phrase “American exceptionalism” into the discussion. But if it’s all the same to you, I’ll choose how I apply it, and I’ll choose to leave mobs and bigots out of the application. 

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I’m not the one who injected the phrase “American exceptionalism” into the discussion. But if it’s all the same to you, I’ll choose how I apply it, and I’ll choose to leave mobs and bigots out of the application. 

Cool, I’ll choose to leave out North and South America from the application. El Salvadoran exceptionalism for me.

[Scott Lloyd]

35 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Cool, I’ll choose to leave out North and South America from the application. El Salvadoran exceptionalism for me.

Again, it was Peacefully who first used the expression “American exceptionalism” in this thread. But when she obliquely applied that term to President Oaks’s general conference talk, do you really think she was accusing him of standing up for mobs and bigots? I doubt it, but I’ll let you take that up with her. 

[Metis_LDS]

Since joining the Church in 1973 I have heard how the U.S. is inspired of God many times.  While watching President Oaks speak my spouse said something that help understand why.  If the constitution needs protecting the members will do so because it is of God.  This would be truly juxtaposed to the suffering of the members in the early days of the Church in the eastern United States having had no relief through the constitution.

[Rajah Manchou]

14 minutes ago, Metis_LDS said:

Since joining the Church in 1973 I have heard how the U.S. is inspired of God many times.  While watching President Oaks speak my spouse said something that help understand why.  If the constitution needs protecting the members will do so because it is of God.  This would be truly juxtaposed to the suffering of the members in the early days of the Church in the eastern United States having had no relief through the constitution.

Constitutions are great and all, but they only work if everyone agrees to the terms and conditions. I live abroad. We've gone through six different constitutions (all of them based on the US constitution) since I arrived because politicians always seem to find a way to tip the balances in their favor. The country next door to me has a constitution too, also based on the US Constitution, but people are now being shot dead in the streets because one party got this brilliant idea from somewhere (I dare not say where) that they could simply dispute the elections if they didn't like the results. 

Constitutions might be divinely inspired, but President Oakes seems to be warning us that we shouldn't lean too heavily on a document that doesn't live and adapt right along side of us.