Popular Post smac97 Posted April 2, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 2, 2021 (edited) We have previously had a few discussions about DezNat: September 2019: DezNat (Deseret Nation) = White Nationalism? December 2020: DezNat (Deseret Nation) = White Nationalism? - Part 2 November 2020: Fair Mormon's new YouTube branding strategy Here's a Trib opinion piece by Russell Stevenson (author of “For the Cause of Righteousness: A Global History of Blacks and Mormonism”) that addresses DezNat again: #DezNat philosophy is damaging to the LDS Church Quote (Francisco Kjolseth | The Salt Lake Tribune) Here are some of the Twitter postings by #DezNat users, who claim they are defending The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from “apostates.” Brigham Young University has recently released its report on Race, Equity, and Belonging, with hopes of producing a campus environment that proactively seeks to welcome those from ethnically minoritized communities. In this report, the authors take particular care to identify a specific movement that has proven to be unsettling, unwelcoming, and often hostile to ethnic minorities at Brigham Young University. Many ethnic minorities, the report observes, experience “a lot of stress regarding the rise of alt-right movements (e.g. DezNat)” and experience “worries about things that might be said or done in classrooms, at church, etc.” Known by the hashtag #DezNat, this alt-right-style movement brands themselves as “unapologetically” Latter-day Saint, with a commitment to church leaders that is articulated in terms of bowie knives and the rhetoric of violence. The hashtag’s founder, J.P. Bellum, bills his movement as straightforward: “While the questions, conditions, and problems of the world may be myriad, our response is simple — we follow the prophet.” I am also unapologetically Latter-day Saint. Very happy to be so, in fact. I also value the idea of taking seriously and following prophetic counsel and guidance. And yet I don't like #DezNat, as a concept or in practice. It is, to me, increasingly troubling and disturbing. I am very much opposed to the violence-related imagery/rhetoric. I dislike how DezNat adherents seem to freely conflate Latter-day Saint doctrine/belief with certain political affiliations and positions, as if our beliefs and certain political platforms are indistinguishable from each other. And I am concerned about DezNat's necessarily decentralized messaging and ideology. There is no organization, no heirarchy, no vetting, no coherent message. The hashtag and the overall concept are therefore apparently susceptible to being (mis)used to associate the Church and its members with things that are incompatible with the Restored Gospel, such as racist rhetoric. Bro. Bellum says that "our response is simple -- we follow the prophet." I'm not sure the things are that simple, as such a resposne doesn't address, for example, the violent imagery associated with DezNat, nor the apparent occasional racism. Quote But those who watch this movement know that its roots run much deeper than this slogan. While #DezNat is not the only faction worthy of critical inquiry, its efforts are ongoing, present and damaging. But respectable Latter-day Saints ought to know better than to affiliate themselves with factional movements within the faith. It will, not may, come with costs. It alienates Black people, celebrates violence (the movement’s symbol is a bowie knife), and undermines the church’s claims to political neutrality. The occasional chestnut #DezNat offers to its readers falters in the face of the extremities to which its adherents are willing to reach. And these are not outliers from people projecting their own beliefs onto the movement. A #DezNat tweeter appropriated the infamous “14word” white supremacist slogan coined by David Lane as an article of his faith. Another tweeter has declared that “those who think Church doctrines, policies, and prophets were racist” should, “Get outta my church.” Others join together to use the n-word to provoke Black commenters. When presented with an account he considered to be”fake,” #DezNat founder J.P. Bellum snipped that they should “Blood atone fake #DezNat accounts.” Such voices are as angry, as bitter, as ill-informed as the enemies they claim to fight. These voices are not the heroes they tell themselves — and Twitter — that they are. Yeah, this stuff is bad. However, Stevensen asserts, but does not seem to demonstrate, that these awful expressions "are not outliers." I'm curious if that is the case. The above montage of images sure looks bad. Quote Some might have us believe that the whole #DezNat enterprise is a capital and elaborate joke — a Potemkin village built on grievance solidarity and nothing more. Whatever words of thin wisdom occasionally the movement’s founder musters up, the resounding echoes of their online rivalry render their loyalties clear. As even a cursory awareness of Latter-day Saint doctrine makes clear, these positions stand in stark contrast to positions taken by church leadership. The church has publicly “condemn[ed] racism, including any and all past racism by individuals both inside and outside the Church.” Elder M. Russell Ballard has condemned “racism, sexism, and nationalism” of all kinds. As recently as November 2020, the First Presidency has celebrated that “principles compatible with the gospel may be found in various political parties.” Responsible and respectable Latter-day Saints carry an obligation to follow BYU’s lead: renounce #DezNat factionalization, in all of its forms. Many of this community offer up nothing more than a cheap mechanism for grievance solidarity, which many are more than happy to exploit in order to curate the passing validation of online praise. The rich smorgasbord of life-affirming teachings within the Latter-day Saint tradition offers more than enough to experience a fulfilling journey as a faithful Latter-day Saint. Good points, and ones that jibe with my observations made in December: Quote As noted above, it does not appear that DezNat is an organization, but rather a hashtag. But because hashtags cannot be copyrighted or controlled, they can be appropriated by anyone. And based on my admittedly preliminary investigation/research, it appears that some genuine racists are using it. It appears that there are people who are not racist who have used or are using the hashtag. It appears that the hashtag has been "tainted" as being expressive or supportive of racism. It apparently did not start out that way, and is not universally intended to express that idea, but the casual reader will not know this. Many (most?) of them will see #DezNat and immediately associate it with the appropriation/misappropriation of the hashtag by overt racists. And not just because the overt racists use the hashtag. People are apparently using the hashtag in conjunction with expressions described by its creator ("combative, rude, crass, aggressive, even mean"). When that happens, it doesn't take much to continue the negative perception to include things like "racist" and "sexist." And though such perceptions are not entirely correct, their not entirely incorrect, either (as evidenced by the individuals who used the "N" word against Kwaku). Based on what I have read so for, it seems that expressions of racism and sexism/misogyny are likely the most serious negative aspects of the use of the #DezNat hashtag. Nevertheless, the "combative, rude, crass, aggressive, even mean" expressions are also quite serious, also foment ill will, and are also out of harmony with the teachings of the Church. I am reminded of the swastika, which was originally a benign religious icon that was appropriated by the Nazis, such that it now overwhelmingly carries connotations of great evil. Similarly, whatever #DezNat started out as, it has since been misappropriated and corrupted. And since it is newly-minted and has no revelatory provenance, I think it should be abandoned and rejected by the Latter-day Saints. As Latter-day Saints, if and when we see expressions of racism by members of the Church, we should speak against such things (and, obviously, refrain from expressing or harboring such sentiments ourselves). We should speak with patience and charity, but also with clarity and firmness. The Brethren have done a very good job at this, particularly in this last General Conference. We now need to apply their counsel in our day-to-day lives. Thoughts? Thanks, -Smac Edited April 2, 2021 by smac97 5 Link to comment
Popular Post JLHPROF Posted April 2, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 2, 2021 I haven't really looked at these #Deznat people. But it seems to me on first appearances to be people taking orthodox adherence to correct gospel principles and turning them into something very much not in keeping with the gospel. I agree with much of what they seem to be saying doctrinally. I find their tone very much offensive to the spirit. Kind of how I feel about Trump Republicanism. 7 Link to comment
Ipod Touch Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, smac97 said: I dislike how DezNat adherents seem to freely conflate Latter-day Saint doctrine/belief with certain political affiliations and positions, as if our beliefs and certain political platforms are indistinguishable from each other. I fully agree. I've been a casual observer of DezNat for a year or so. Maybe a bit longer. And my impression is that the ideas being expressed are becoming more and more radical. And quite frankly, very fascistic - as in the actual definition of fascism and not the pop-definition which conflates the word with dictatorship. For a long time, I just saw them as being edgy to counter Mormon progressive histrionics on Twitter. But no longer. Someone I know many years ago is very active on Twitter. I just happened across his account one day and was appalled at the openly anti-semitic, racist, and fascistic things he was promoting. Since the election last year, he's been attaching these ideas to DezNat. He served a mission to a country where he know openly mocks and denigrates their people. I really just don't get it. I hope that he steps away from the internet for a while, takes a breath, and softens his heart. Funny enough, I've wondered if he fell victim to what @juliann brought up in her thread about Elder Ballard. He's a smart, well-educated guy who just never got the girl. And so is it any surprise that he is parroting what "incels" on 4chan repeat ad nauseam? Who knows. But either way, I hope he has an Alma the Younger experience to purge the obvious anger and hate he carries. Edited April 2, 2021 by Ipod Touch 2 Link to comment
teddyaware Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, smac97 said: We have previously had a few discussions about DezNat: September 2019: DezNat (Deseret Nation) = White Nationalism? December 2020: DezNat (Deseret Nation) = White Nationalism? - Part 2 November 2020: Fair Mormon's new YouTube branding strategy Here's a Trib opinion piece by Russell Stevenson (author of “For the Cause of Righteousness: A Global History of Blacks and Mormonism”) that addresses DezNat again: #DezNat philosophy is damaging to the LDS Church I am also unapologetically Latter-day Saint. Very happy to be so, in fact. I also value the idea of taking seriously and following prophetic counsel and guidance. And yet I don't like #DezNat, as a concept or in practice. It is, to me, increasingly troubling and disturbing. I am very much opposed to the violence-related imagery/rhetoric. I dislike how DezNat adherents seem to freely conflate Latter-day Saint doctrine/belief with certain political affiliations and positions, as if our beliefs and certain political platforms are indistinguishable from each other. And I am concerned about DezNat's necessarily decentralized messaging and ideology. There is no organization, no heirarchy, no vetting, no coherent message. The hashtag and the overall concept are therefore apparently susceptible to being (mis)used to associate the Church and its members with things that are incompatible with the Restored Gospel, such as racist rhetoric. Bro. Bellum says that "our response is simple -- we follow the prophet." I'm not sure the things are that simple, as such a resposne doesn't address, for example, the violent imagery associated with DezNat, nor the apparent occasional racism. Yeah, this stuff is bad. However, Stevensen asserts, but does not seem to demonstrate, that these awful expressions "are not outliers." I'm curious if that is the case. The above montage of images sure looks bad. Good points, and ones that jibe with my observations made in December: Thoughts? Thanks, -Smac I find it interesting and somewhat perplexing that it’s now painfully obvious our nation is in the grip of modern-day Gadianton robbers who are in the process of dragging the United States of America down into the prophesied “post day of the Gentiles” godless tyranny , and that instead of focusing on this most devastating emergency our attention is diverted to a relatively small group of patriotic, Ezra Taft Benson loving members of the Church who think General Moroni was a cool guy. This amounts to a modern Latter-Day Saint version of fiddling while Rome burns. In the last General Conference address of his life, President Benson most solemnly warned the Church that the worldwide secret combination of the last days, which was prophesied by Moroni in Ether chapter 8, that was going to be set up by the devil to destroy the freedom of every nation on earth was, even then (October of 1988), in the process of gaining control over America and the entire world. And very recently President Nelson warned the Church that we are now in the last scenes of.the unfolding drama.of the last days as the Second Coming of the Lord draws near. But rather than heeding Moroni and awakening “to a sense of our awful situation” before this satanic secret combination gets above us, we’re fixing our attention on members of the Church who actually have awakened to the extreme dangers that are happening all around us and then condemning them as the enemy. I would be much more receptive to threads like this one if there were a more balanced awareness of what’s going on around us and if, at very least, an equal focus was being placed on this secret combination whose goal it is to destroy everything that’s good and holy, rather than focus on a few overzealous and/or misguided members who take seriously the prophecy that the elders of Israel are going to rise up and save the Constitution of the United States from utter destruction as it dangles precariously over the edge of destruction. But do continue fiddling as I’m confident this warning will largely be mocked, ridiculed and fall on deaf ears. A final thought: The day is going to come when the vast majority of the world’s people are going to wonder how in the world they could have been so easily distracted and deceived when the unpleasant truth was right in front of their eyes. But when that day comes these can at least take some measure of solace in the realization that it was prophesied nearly entire population of the world was going to end up be deceived, with the exception of a small remnant who would possess the spirit of revelation in sufficient measure to safely be able to navigate through the treacherous, beguiling waters of the last days. A joyous Easter to all! Edited April 2, 2021 by teddyaware 1 Link to comment
Ipod Touch Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 1 minute ago, teddyaware said: I would be much more receptive to threads like this one if there were a more balanced awareness of what’s going on around us and if, at very least, an equal focus was being placed on this secret combination whose goal it is to destroy everything that’s good and holy, than on a a few overzealous and/or misguided members who take seriously the prophecy that the elders of Israel are going to rise up and save the Constitution of the United States from utter destruction as it dangles precariously over the edge of destruction. But do continue fiddling as I’m confident this warning will be largely mocked and ridiculed and fall on deaf ears. I remember when Communism was going to do this. Same story, different players. Link to comment
Popular Post smac97 Posted April 2, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted April 2, 2021 (edited) 29 minutes ago, teddyaware said: I find it interesting and somewhat perplexing that it’s now painfully obvious our nation is in the grip of modern-day Gadianton robbers who are in the process of dragging the United States of America down into the prophesied “post day of the Gentiles” godless tyranny , and that instead of focusing on this most devastating emergency our attention is diverted to a relatively small group of patriotic, Ezra Taft Benson loving members of the Church who think General Moroni was a cool guy. This amounts to a modern Latter-Day Saint version of fiddling while Rome burns. I don't think so. I can express concern about both matters. And I don't think Ezra Taft Benson would approve of this: Or this: Or this: Or this: Or this: And so on. These are not appropriates words and imagery. This is disturbing stuff. Quote I would be much more receptive to threads like this one if there were a more balanced awareness of what’s going on around us and if, at very least, an equal focus was being placed on this secret combination whose goal it is to destroy everything that’s good and holy, rather than focus on a few overzealous and/or misguided members who take seriously the prophecy that the elders of Israel are going to rise up and save the Constitution of the United States from utter destruction as it dangles precariously over the edge of destruction. But do continue fiddling as I’m confident this warning will be largely mocked and ridiculed and fall on deaf ears. I see no "rather than." I can do "in addition to." Thanks, -Smac Edited April 2, 2021 by smac97 5 Link to comment
jkwilliams Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, smac97 said: I don't think so. I can express concern about both matters. And so on. These are not appropriates words and imagery. This is disturbing stuff. I see no "rather than." I can do "in addition to." Thanks, -Smac I dunno, some of us are weak-willed scum. Seriously, though, it's not surprising that some black-and-white thinkers tend to lump anyone they disagree with into some nebulous horde of "modern-day Gadianton robbers." I've seen members of the church accuse both US political parties of being Gadiantons while insisting their party is the one supported by Jesus and the prophets. Life simply doesn't fall into such neatly defined categories, and human beings (even large groups of them) and their ideologies are complicated and resist easy categorization. I had a mission companion who later served as district president, and he was a proud member of the Revolutionary Workers' Party. Is he a Gadianton? Are the folks who stormed the Capitol? I suppose it all depends on whom you listen to. 2 Link to comment
Popular Post The Nehor Posted April 2, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 2, 2021 (edited) 45 minutes ago, teddyaware said: I find it interesting and somewhat perplexing that it’s now painfully obvious our nation is in the grip of modern-day Gadianton robbers who are in the process of dragging the United States of America down into the prophesied “post day of the Gentiles” godless tyranny , and that instead of focusing on this most devastating emergency our attention is diverted to a relatively small group of patriotic, Ezra Taft Benson loving members of the Church who think General Moroni was a cool guy. This amounts to a modern Latter-Day Saint version of fiddling while Rome burns. In the last General Conference address of his life, President Benson most solemnly warned the Church that the worldwide secret combination of the last days, which was prophesied by Moroni in Ether chapter 8, that was going to be set up by the devil to destroy the freedom of every nation on earth was, even then (October of 1988), in the process of gaining control over America and the entire world. And very recently President Nelson warned the Church that we are now in the last scenes of.the unfolding drama.of the last days as the Second Coming of the Lord draws near. But rather than heeding Moroni and awakening “to a sense of our awful situation” before this satanic secret combination gets above us, we’re fixing our attention on members of the Church who actually have awakened to the extreme dangers that are happening all around us and then condemning them as the enemy. I would be much more receptive to threads like this one if there were a more balanced awareness of what’s going on around us and if, at very least, an equal focus was being placed on this secret combination whose goal it is to destroy everything that’s good and holy, rather than focus on a few overzealous and/or misguided members who take seriously the prophecy that the elders of Israel are going to rise up and save the Constitution of the United States from utter destruction as it dangles precariously over the edge of destruction. But do continue fiddling as I’m confident this warning will largely be mocked, ridiculed and fall on deaf ears. A final thought: The day is going to come when the vast majority of the world’s people are going to wonder how in the world they could have been so easily distracted and deceived when the unpleasant truth was right in front of their eyes. But when that day comes these can at least take some measure of solace in the realization that it was prophesied nearly entire population of the world was going to end up be deceived, with the exception of a small remnant who would possess the spirit of revelation in sufficient measure to safely be able to navigate through the treacherous, beguiling waters of the last days. A joyous Easter to all! They have awakened to their awful situation and go around being racist and screaming about ostracizing heretics. THEY’RE HEROES!!! THEY ARE THE SMALL REMNANT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS!!!!!! Whatever. Something about woe unto those who call evil good or something. Edited April 2, 2021 by The Nehor 7 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 Seriously, the idea that understanding a threat precisely somehow constitutes righteousness is a really warped version of Gnosticism. 3 Link to comment
Popular Post Meadowchik Posted April 2, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 2, 2021 Frankly SMAC it is refreshing to see pushback against DezNat from LDS members. FYI there is also currently a wave of exmo pushback against New Name Noah's abusive behaviour. I appreciate both. It helps make the larger community better. Thanks. 9 Link to comment
CA Steve Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 (edited) You guys just don't get it. If we learn anything from the gospel of Jesus Christ, it is the need to have large stock piles of food and ammunition on hand so we can keep our starving neighbors at bay while we sactimoniously remind them of their failure to listen to our warnings, cause that's what Christ would do. Edited April 2, 2021 by CA Steve 4 Link to comment
ttribe Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, teddyaware said: I find it interesting and somewhat perplexing that it’s now painfully obvious our nation is in the grip of modern-day Gadianton robbers who are in the process of dragging the United States of America down into the prophesied “post day of the Gentiles” godless tyranny , and that instead of focusing on this most devastating emergency our attention is diverted to a relatively small group of patriotic, Ezra Taft Benson loving members of the Church who think General Moroni was a cool guy. This amounts to a modern Latter-Day Saint version of fiddling while Rome burns. In the last General Conference address of his life, President Benson most solemnly warned the Church that the worldwide secret combination of the last days, which was prophesied by Moroni in Ether chapter 8, that was going to be set up by the devil to destroy the freedom of every nation on earth was, even then (October of 1988), in the process of gaining control over America and the entire world. And very recently President Nelson warned the Church that we are now in the last scenes of.the unfolding drama.of the last days as the Second Coming of the Lord draws near. But rather than heeding Moroni and awakening “to a sense of our awful situation” before this satanic secret combination gets above us, we’re fixing our attention on members of the Church who actually have awakened to the extreme dangers that are happening all around us and then condemning them as the enemy. I would be much more receptive to threads like this one if there were a more balanced awareness of what’s going on around us and if, at very least, an equal focus was being placed on this secret combination whose goal it is to destroy everything that’s good and holy, rather than focus on a few overzealous and/or misguided members who take seriously the prophecy that the elders of Israel are going to rise up and save the Constitution of the United States from utter destruction as it dangles precariously over the edge of destruction. But do continue fiddling as I’m confident this warning will largely be mocked, ridiculed and fall on deaf ears. A final thought: The day is going to come when the vast majority of the world’s people are going to wonder how in the world they could have been so easily distracted and deceived when the unpleasant truth was right in front of their eyes. But when that day comes these can at least take some measure of solace in the realization that it was prophesied nearly entire population of the world was going to end up be deceived, with the exception of a small remnant who would possess the spirit of revelation in sufficient measure to safely be able to navigate through the treacherous, beguiling waters of the last days. A joyous Easter to all! Ask yourself - Which is actually your primarily religion? U.S. "conservatism" and "patriotism"? Or, the gospel as taught by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? You are trying to bend one to fit the other, and I don't think you are even remotely self-aware about this. Edited April 2, 2021 by ttribe 3 Link to comment
jkwilliams Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 1 minute ago, CA Steve said: You guys just don't get it. If we learn anything from the gospel of Jesus Christ, it is the need to have large stock piles of food and ammunition on hand so we can keep our starving neighbors at bay while we sactimoniously remind them of their failure to listen to our warnings, cause that's what Christ would do. The sarcasm is strong in this one. Again, I’m suspecting it’s a product of environment. Link to comment
CA Steve Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: The sarcasm is strong in this one. Again, I’m suspecting it’s a product of environment. My parents were great friends with many of our neighbors. With a family of 9 people and my dad the only one working, money was scarce and yet my parents maintained what they thought was a year supply of food for all of the family. I used to ask mom and dad if they would also feed the neighbors when they ran out of food and where they would draw the line on who got fed and who didn't? Stockpiling food is a great idea as long as your willing to watch others go without, otherwise it is pretty pointless. (Well the real problem would have been potable water. My parent's year supply would have been pretty useless in a real emergency since they would not have had access to the water needed to cook it.) 1 Link to comment
Popular Post juliann Posted April 2, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 2, 2021 13 minutes ago, CA Steve said: My parents were great friends with many of our neighbors. With a family of 9 people and my dad the only one working, money was scarce and yet my parents maintained what they thought was a year supply of food for all of the family. I used to ask mom and dad if they would also feed the neighbors when they ran out of food and where they would draw the line on who got fed and who didn't? Stockpiling food is a great idea as long as your willing to watch others go without, otherwise it is pretty pointless. (Well the real problem would have been potable water. My parent's year supply would have been pretty useless in a real emergency since they would not have had access to the water needed to cook it.) I find the sole emphasis on survival mystifying. What difference does it make whether you are alive or dead at a Second Coming? Seems like it would be a lot more pleasant being dead.... 6 Link to comment
jkwilliams Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 18 minutes ago, CA Steve said: My parents were great friends with many of our neighbors. With a family of 9 people and my dad the only one working, money was scarce and yet my parents maintained what they thought was a year supply of food for all of the family. I used to ask mom and dad if they would also feed the neighbors when they ran out of food and where they would draw the line on who got fed and who didn't? Stockpiling food is a great idea as long as your willing to watch others go without, otherwise it is pretty pointless. (Well the real problem would have been potable water. My parent's year supply would have been pretty useless in a real emergency since they would not have had access to the water needed to cook it.) My folks went through a brief preparedness thing back in the seventies. A couple of years ago I helped them clean out the garage, and those old cans of dehydrated stuff and wheat were still there. Link to comment
jkwilliams Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, juliann said: I find the sole emphasis on survival mystifying. What difference does it make whether you are alive or dead at a Second Coming? Seems like it would be a lot more pleasant being dead.... I misread that to say that some people are more pleasant being dead. 😂 2 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 39 minutes ago, CA Steve said: My parents were great friends with many of our neighbors. With a family of 9 people and my dad the only one working, money was scarce and yet my parents maintained what they thought was a year supply of food for all of the family. I used to ask mom and dad if they would also feed the neighbors when they ran out of food and where they would draw the line on who got fed and who didn't? Stockpiling food is a great idea as long as your willing to watch others go without, otherwise it is pretty pointless. (Well the real problem would have been potable water. My parent's year supply would have been pretty useless in a real emergency since they would not have had access to the water needed to cook it.) In an emergency hitting a lot of people I plan to share my food even if that means my year's supply lasts a week. Then I plan to starve to death or hope the mashed potato supplies and the water last like that of the widow in Elijah's story. Or God can send manna again. Always wondered what that tasted like. 2 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 19 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: I misread that to say that some people are more pleasant being dead. 😂 Also a true statement. 1 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 23 minutes ago, juliann said: I find the sole emphasis on survival mystifying. What difference does it make whether you are alive or dead at a Second Coming? Seems like it would be a lot more pleasant being dead.... “In ‘Possible Worlds’ Professor Haldane pictured a future in which Man, foreseeing that Earth would soon be uninhabitable, adapted himself for migration to Venus by drastically modifying his physiology and abandoning justice, pity and happiness. The desire here is for mere survival. Now I care far more how humanity lives than how long. Progress, for me, means increasing goodness and happiness of individual lives. For the species, as for each man, mere longevity seems to me a contemptible ideal.” - C.S. Lewis Better to die good than live on as monsters. 1 Link to comment
CA Steve Posted April 2, 2021 Share Posted April 2, 2021 1 hour ago, juliann said: I find the sole emphasis on survival mystifying. What difference does it make whether you are alive or dead at a Second Coming? Seems like it would be a lot more pleasant being dead.... That answer is easy. Someone has to be alive to spend the 100+ billion the church has. 🤑 Link to comment
Tacenda Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 5 hours ago, Meadowchik said: Frankly SMAC it is refreshing to see pushback against DezNat from LDS members. FYI there is also currently a wave of exmo pushback against New Name Noah's abusive behaviour. I appreciate both. It helps make the larger community better. Thanks. I like that too, and I like a happy medium, no far right or far left. Link to comment
sunstoned Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 6 hours ago, juliann said: I find the sole emphasis on survival mystifying. What difference does it make whether you are alive or dead at a Second Coming? Seems like it would be a lot more pleasant being dead.... My thoughts exactly. Link to comment
JLHPROF Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 5 hours ago, CA Steve said: That answer is easy. Someone has to be alive to spend the 100+ billion the church has. 🤑 At that point currency will likely be worthless. 1 Link to comment
sunstoned Posted April 3, 2021 Share Posted April 3, 2021 6 hours ago, jkwilliams said: My folks went through a brief preparedness thing back in the seventies. A couple of years ago I helped them clean out the garage, and those old cans of dehydrated stuff and wheat were still there. Additionally most national emergencies/disasters that we have seen in the U.S. (fires, floods, mud slides, earthquakes, large storms, etc.) have not been kind to large stored food supplies. Stores of food don't survive well in hurricanes like Sandy and Katrina, or the fires, mud slides and earthquakes of California. Or the tornados we have seen in Texas and Tennessee of late. Even in economic hard times I would rather have the money I would have spent on a large food supply in the bank so that I could pay my rent/mortgage. Otherwise I might be pushing a wagon loaded with my food storage down the road looking for a place to sleep. With that said, I do believe in being prepared, and I do keep a 72 hours get the beep out of Dodge bag handy. 1 Link to comment
Recommended Posts